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Post Match: Stoke 3 Liverpool 5

Canuck33

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gasband said:
Giving credit is not ignoring the faults we have of course. But i am talking about fans who, even if we win every single game in the remaining games this way, will still find more negatives. Most of us appreciate the improvements and acknowledge the faults. Some just see the hole in a donut and lament its incomplete.
What's incomplete? The hole or the donut?
 

gasband

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Canuck33 said:
What's incomplete? The hole or the donut?
You can make your own inferences. Sometimes we just need to enjoy the donut.
 

RichLFC

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Arminius said:
I must be some kind of tactical idiot savant, but I would have thought the best way to win would be to go toe to toe with teams, let your top players blow them away, and play some fundamentally sound defense.

Best part of MotD - Rodgers called the Sterling penalty a 'Spanish penalty' because the attacker created the contact then went down, the panel discussed calling it a 'Manchester penalty'.

..and Lawrenson has let himself become fat.
That's the thing really. We have the best striking partnership in the league but are in 4th. Same a bit last season and we finished 7th

Really you need a closer gap between your best and worst players, ours is bloody cavernous. Admire the skills and thrills of the brilliant Suarez and gifted Sturridge...and facepalm relentlessly when you see Cissokho lumbering up the left hand side and tripping over the ball in the finest Djimi Traore tradition. Or you see the new Poulsen with short back and sides post injury Lucas getting burned for pace by Charlie Adam (real shame that knee injury has bolloxed his fitness). Or you see Johnson strolling around not giving a shit as compared to a willing Henderson who despite being of moderate ability grafts the ell out of it. Mixed in with a gifted but erratic Coutinho to boot. Team is like a bag of Revels at the moment

It's a bit of an acid trip at times. Fun, but consistency is really a vital part of a team aiming to win trophies and for that the gaps between rich and poor on the field need to be a bit narrower than they are. Been through the Roy Evans era already and though it was fun it was also an era of wasteful inefficiency and flattering to deception and though it was never dull, don't really want to go down that road too far again in the long term. But do think that Rodgers has a bit more steel to him than both Evans and Keegan did, one would hope he grasps some of the weaknesses eventually and takes them firmly in hand...as the actress said to the bishop. Think though he may need to make some of the necessary changes this month in the market. Get a starting quality central midfielder and drop one of Lucas or Gerrard to a bench/rotation role. A decent fullback would also be a real help

Can't take too long though. Front two for me know they belong in a side that can challenge for silverware and last summer we saw the danger signs first hand. In the end they won't stick it indefinitely. So need to keep pushing the envelope as much as possible. Few less coffee creams in our box of chocolates and all that
 
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Canuck33

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gasband said:
You can make your own inferences. Sometimes we just need to enjoy the donut.
Donuts would be great if not for that damn hole though. It always leaves this empty feeling. That's why I prefer fritters. Taste just as good and no hole.

Anyway, was a good win for is today, especially in light of our our recent history there. Well deserved and great to see SAS picking up just where they left off.
 

SGM

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anglian_red said:
Our Premier League defensive record over the last few seasons;

2013/2014, 26 Conceded, 1.23 per game (so far)
2012/2013, 43 Conceded, 1.13 per game
2011/2012, 40 Conceded, 1.05 per game
2010/2011, 44 Conceded, 1.15 per game*
2009/2010, 35 Conceded, 0.92 per game
2008/2009, 27 Conceded, 0.71 per game
2007/2008, 28 Conceded, 0.73 per game
2006/2007, 27 Conceded, 0.71 per game
2005/2006, 25 Conceded, 0.65 per game
2004/2005, 41 Conceded, 1.07 per game
2003/2004, 37 Conceded, 0.97 per game

*Just a word on 2010/11, obviously we had a managerial change halfway through and the differences were stark. Under Roy we conceded 26 goals in 20 games, a rate of 1.3 per game. Under Kenny that dropped to 15 in 18 games, 0.83 per game.

Defensive record is only part of it obviously, what really matters is points. 63 points was deemed bad enough to sack Rafa, yet none of his three successors have beaten that, though we are on course for 76 points this season on current form!
Have the TOTAL number of premier league goals increased at all?
 

Genius

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Taken from the other thread.
pottymonster said:
At Anfield we have allowed 6 goals. That puts us in a 3 way tie for the stingiest defense at home in the league. Our goal differential at home is +21, which puts us 2nd only to Manchester City.

On the road, we have allowed 20 goals, 4th worst in the league. There are a clump of teams in that region, sitting at 19, 18, 17 against, but we still sit 4th worst. The relegation teams have all allowed 17, so we're doing something wrong here. However, we have also scored 24 goals on our travels, the most in the league. We have a +4 differential on the road, tied for 4th best in the league. So we're also doing something right.

Let's look at some more numbers because I'm bored and have time to write up more stats. Over the last 10 seasons, here are the goals for, goals against, and goal differential for us at the 21 game mark of the season:

2013/2014 ===== 51 GF, 26 GA, +25 GD
2012/2013 ===== 34 GF, 26 GA, +8 GD
2011/2012 ===== 24 GF, 18 GA, +6 GD
2010/2011 ===== 25 GF, 29 GA, -4 GD
2009/2010 ===== 38 GF, 26 GA, +12 GD
2008/2009 ===== 35 GF, 13 GA, +22 GD
2007/2008 ===== 34 GF, 13 GA, +21 GD
2006/2007 ===== 32 GF, 13 GA, +16 GD
2005/2006 ===== 29 GF, 11 GA, +18 GD
2004/2005 ===== 34 GF, 21 GA, +13 GD
2003/2004 ===== 31 GF, 23 GA, +8 GD

We have our best GD of the past 10 seasons. We have the most GF of the past 10 seasons. We have a 3 way tie for 2nd worst GA of the past 10 seasons.

Rafa clearly set us to be defence first but also score enough goals so as to maintain a GD in the high teens, low 20s. Hodgson also attempted to set us up so as not to concede but he did a horrible job at it. Kenny did a decent job at it, but at the expense of ability to score goals. Rodgers got us scoring at a similar rate to the Rafa/Houlier days last season, but we also conceded more. This year, Rodgers has us scoring for fun, but still conceding the same amount.

So what do I think this means? I think Rodgers has probably looked at the same numbers and asked himself how he could increase the GD, which is the real bread and butter stat. He had two options, maintain goal scoring at a similar pace but concentrate heavily on defence as well so as to concede less and thereby raise GD, or accept that he has two of the top 5 strikers in the league and build a team to suit their strengths. He clearly went with the latter and he has the GD where it needs to be.

So for those saying 'this only works as long as we score goals', well the same could be said about the opposite strategy: it only works so long as we don't concede. We have the tools to score goals. Let's keep scoring them, the results are the same. After all, last season when United won the league they had 54 GF, 28 GA, +26 GD at this time. Rodgers has us running the a very similar stat line, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 

DanLFC

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With those stats, think you also need to allow for the overall improvement across the league in the last few years.

Every team has players who can hurt you and any team is capable of winning on their day, the quality of the mid and lower level teams has definetly improved over the last few years and every away game is tough no matter who you play.
 

rich1991

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I have never ever read the word "luck" so many times in one thread. There is no such thing as luck!

It's not lucky having two of the best strikers in the world!
It's not lucky that Suarez puts defenders under extreme pressure, so that they make mistakes.
It's not lucky we got a penalty, cause Sterling put the defender under pressure, and made a great run into the box.

Scoring five goals away from home, and having scored 50 goals already this season, and having the second best goal difference in the league is not lucky!

You make your own luck, and at the moment, we are doing quite well for ourselves!
 

blndcat

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Have to say Stoke didn't play all that badly, they never rolled over or had their heads down. Also the conditions were atrocious, I was worried we might pick up a few more injuries *knock on wood*

Sturridge changed the game when he came on, Stoke's defence really didn't know who to cover and it lead to more panics and that has an effect on confidence and we got our goals.

Penalty? If you look at it at normal speed from the ref's view, it does look like a nudge leading to Sterling tumbling, the ref had to give it. Video tech, slo-mo, different angles might have lead to a different decision.

Best goal was probably Sturridge's, that was some speed of thought and close control after his shot was saved.

Other talking points, I think there is something seriously wrong with Johnson, either mentally or physically. He shouldn't be on the pitch. He's not making the effort and if it is clear as day to us, then I hope Rodgers can see it too. Based on the recent performances I would have put a new RB ahead of a striker or midfielder in the January window. A team with more quality will rip right through us down our right. Cissokho doesn't have the quality but at least he tries.

We did a lot of good pressing in the first half. Every time they had the ball they were rushed into giving it away cheaply (long pass, mispass). It's nice to see and it's the biggest difference to Liverpool teams of the recent past. Unfortunately we couldn't keep it up and I think as a style, if we don't make the first half tell then we risk having the opposition take advantage in the second half.
 

Mascot88

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naturalskill said:
the so-called 1-2 midfield is the reason why other teams are finding it relatively easy to create chances against us.
We've played it the way it meant to be played three times this season. Spurs, Cardiff and City.

Against Spurs we didn't concede a shot on goal. We blew Cardiff away. We should have beat City, and it was in the following game against Chelsea that we lost Allen, and had to revert back to a 2-1 with Lucas sitting next to Gerrard.

The reason that we concede chances easily is because playing Gerrard and Lucas in tandem robs us of energy and pressing in midfield. We can only afford one of them - we can't carry both.
 
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Just thinking forward to the next game and trying to fit in Sturridge (and possibly Sakho) into the first XI, I wonder whether a 3-1-4-2 formation might work for us?

Mignolet
Skrtel Toure Sakho
Lucas
Sterling Gerrard Hendo Coutinho
Suarez Sturridge​
Not only does it allow Suarez and Sturridge to maintain their partnership up front but it also gets rid of arguably two of our inconsistent performers in Johnson and Cissokho all the while retaining an extra player in midfield. Also a back 3 of Toure/Skrtel/Sakho should provide good cover at set pieces.
 

Red Armada

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redandwhite3 said:
I think to me you lack a top defensive midfielder at his best. lucas does not do as he once did in the past at protecting the defence . You missed enqiue and a fit agger but you lack a defensive midfielder and a top center half in the hypia mould.

To me it how you were in mid 1990s. roy evans never seemed to get to grips with how to get phil babb and john schales to do the basics .
Agreed. However it's not just a matter of the personnel that is available because we've looked vulnerable even at full strength.

We are just shit at defending under Rodgers and there are no signs of an improvement. Conceding 3 against Stoke didn't cost us but it did against Everton and Hull. We've allowed 2 or more goals in 7 of our last 8 away fixtures. That's shocking for a team that has aspirations of a top four finish.

We possess one of the most lethal striker partnerships of the PL era and yet we look far from certain to reach that goal because the team fails at basic stuff such as closing down opposition players and preventing crosses into the box. It's maddening to see such a potent attack go to waste for things that should be the bare minimum for any professional team let alone one with high aspirations.
 

LeoT

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I'm not worried at all.

This season we clearly commit more players forward, that leads to 2 things:
1. More goals scored.
2. slightly more goals conceded.

If we're concerned about the defence we could always commit less players forward, like the Rafa days (but then what would we complain about...).
 

charleslee89

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i find it pretty alarming to concede 3 goals in a match, never mind us scoring 5. what in the world is our midfield, defence and to a certain extent our goalkeeper doing? For crouch's goal, the defence simply went to sleep. For adam's goal, where's the bloody pressing in the midfield to stop adam when he just recovered on a slip? For walters goal, both the defence and the goal keeper were at fault.

it simply shows the lucas, gerrard and henderson trio is not very good defensively and not contributing to the attacking play. Someone has to tell rodgers that gerrard has to stop trying the hollywood ball all the bloody time, lucas to remember how to start attacks, henderson to get into the box more often.

In addition, it's a matter of time that skrtel will be penalised for excessive shirt tugging, aly cissokho no being good enough when he got skinned repeatedly by Charlie adam who's no way near the technique of BPL's best wide players much less Europe's best, johnson not taking any game seriously and probably conserving himself for the world cup, assuming that he even gets to start at the world cup over other English RBs who have been doing better.

Someone has to get our club psychologist to talk to coutinho about his mental state. Him continually missing sitters is not going to do a lot for a young player like him.

In all, we were pretty fortunate that the referee gave us the game changing penalty and ignore a possible handball by sterling.

SAS? They were nothing short of brilliant.

As things look, we would need another midfielder, another backup striker, a full back that is comfortable on either side of the pitch. Sort this out, we will be good for years to come..
 

rupzzz

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I'm going for the positive mentallity this morning. We didn't make it easy for ourselves but broke our PL duck at Stoke to finally win there and we scored 5.

If we keep scoring more than the opposition and collecting three points I'm not one for caring. This was always gonna be a tough game.

The defending was shocking at times, but the attacking was brilliant. Just need a bit of work.

That's us now on a run of fixtures we should win. Lets hope the three above start dropping points, starting with Arsenal at Villa tonight.

Glad to see Sturridge return, and the two of them clearly being happy to be on the pitch together. Sturridge brings the best from Coutinho too so hopefully the three of them get some regular game time in the next few fixtures.
 

costared

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charleslee89 said:
i find it pretty alarming to concede 3 goals in a match, never mind us scoring 5. what in the world is our midfield, defence and to a certain extent our goalkeeper doing? For crouch's goal, the defence simply went to sleep. For adam's goal, where's the bloody pressing in the midfield to stop adam when he just recovered on a slip? For walters goal, both the defence and the goal keeper were at fault.

it simply shows the lucas, gerrard and henderson trio is not very good defensively and not contributing to the attacking play. Someone has to tell rodgers that gerrard has to stop trying the hollywood ball all the bloody time, lucas to remember how to start attacks, henderson to get into the box more often.

In addition, it's a matter of time that skrtel will be penalised for excessive shirt tugging, aly cissokho no being good enough when he got skinned repeatedly by Charlie adam who's no way near the technique of BPL's best wide players much less Europe's best, johnson not taking any game seriously and probably conserving himself for the world cup, assuming that he even gets to start at the world cup over other English RBs who have been doing better.

Someone has to get our club psychologist to talk to coutinho about his mental state. Him continually missing sitters is not going to do a lot for a young player like him.

In all, we were pretty fortunate that the referee gave us the game changing penalty and ignore a possible handball by sterling.

SAS? They were nothing short of brilliant.

As things look, we would need another midfielder, another backup striker, a full back that is comfortable on either side of the pitch. Sort this out, we will be good for years to come..
One point at a time.
I think Crouch deserves credit for his goal.He made a dummy run that created just enough time and space for him to get in a decent header.Maybe a better CB would have stopped him, who knows.
Adam goal have to agree although he did get a slice of luck with the ball going between. Skrtles legs.
Lucas can only play DM and is average at that these days which makes it hard work for the others.Gerrard actually did some very good defending and don't forget the conditions really favoured forwards. Hendo was having a lot to do with Lucas being quiet and Coutinho being very ineffective .He has been way below last seasons excellent form so far this season. ( also needs to learn to put his foot through the ball instead of sidefooting it all the time).
Hendo has put in a lot of hard work in recent games but is another who needs to learn to shoot properly.
Could be right about Skrtle and Cissiko but I am not sure Coutinhos problem is psychological.
Maybe we did get a stroke of luck with the pen but look at the times things have gone the other way,like Sterlings "offside" goal at City for example.
We do definitely need a new MF and I think we will get one but I doubt we will get all of the others. If we get a few back from injury ,Flanagan, Sackho,Enrique, then maybe we might just be good enough for the top 4.
 

Urban Achiever

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Soft penalty? "Soft"? As Mascot said it's a clear foul.... in the box = penalty.
Think of the completely ridiculous amount of penalties we have been denied over the last couple of seasons... just go back to the Chelseas game for starters. I think it's safe to say we're not exactly being handed our victories by the officials.

Yes Cissokho got lucky, but hey, does anyone remember how Hull scored against us.... or how the officials stole a goal against City?
Suarez first goal has absolutely nothing to do with luck. Look at how he's constantly pushing the defenders and keeper into 50/50's and then taking advantage. That's not luck but great attacking skill. He is so good at putting pressure on them and reading the game that he creates a goal out of a situation that shouldn't cause the defenders any problems.
I know we moan a lot when we're unlucky or get decisions against us, but let's not moan when we get a bit of "luck" as well :)
Yes, it could have gone another way, but that can always be said about almost any game. It's not like Stoke had us parked in our own box for 90 minutes and we just stole the victory with counters and corrupt officials... come on, fellas....
Had Cissokho or Johnson made that challenge on Sterling in the box, would anyone seriously claim it wasn't a foul?

Nah, the only real luck is the unbelievable fact that Skrtel is still getting away with his insane shirt-pulling. That's crazy.
AND... we need a new defensive midfielder + a winger/forward to help out with the goals... but let's see how the other top-teams do agaisnt Stoke away. We might come to appreciate this win even more with time!
 

kopite1982

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4 new defenders in the summer & its looking like we need a whole new back line still. GJ has been uninterested since he came back, cissokho is so poor it hurts. Skrtel STILL thinks its ok to grab every person in the box he marks. Sakho? Still not convinved hes the £16m pound centre back we wanted. Agger is to soft & cant get in the side. Our best defender has been flannagen. A local 18 yr old lad who hasnt had a sniff for 18 months.

Something is not right regarding our back line. Mignolet has had a poor couple of mistakes here n there aswell. Hes shot stoping is second to none but, catching, corners, distribution is very poor. We have conced 2 or more in so many games this season. It needs to be dealt with. Id prefer to spend our january budget on a DM and a new Defender. I really would.
 

jimbo

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in my opinion don't know how many would disagree, but the problem is in midfield not actually our defensive. The problem for me was Lucas not his fault but he has asked to play in front of Gerrard something he's not used to. Gerrard had his work cut out and some of his passes went astray. Lucas in many times was around the pitch he's normally not in for example in the box couple of times. What I mean to say is no fault of his own but lucas is a short pass DM now asked to play a different role, although he did come to the club as a more forward midfielder he just was out of place. No player actually kept hold of the ball in midfield and only when sturridge came on he held the ball and made an out let for the players behind him to ale a breather. Of Gerrard is going to play sweeper in front of the back 4 then we need ball playing midfielders who can collect of him when there's not a pass on.
 

rab

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kopite1982 said:
4 new defenders in the summer & its looking like we need a whole new back line still. GJ has been uninterested since he came back, cissokho is so poor it hurts. Skrtel STILL thinks its ok to grab every person in the box he marks. Sakho? Still not convinved hes the £16m pound centre back we wanted. Agger is to soft & cant get in the side. Our best defender has been flannagen. A local 18 yr old lad who hasnt had a sniff for 18 months.

Something is not right regarding our back line. Mignolet has had a poor couple of mistakes here n there aswell. Hes shot stoping is second to none but, catching, corners, distribution is very poor. We have conced 2 or more in so many games this season. It needs to be dealt with. Id prefer to spend our january budget on a DM and a new Defender. I really would.
It's actually our defence away from home that is the problem. 6 goals conceded in 10 games at Anfield is the joint least and just 0.6 goals a game. Away from home though we've let in 20 in 11 games at a rate of 1.8 goals a game.

That's too significant a difference to be ignored or be generalised into the statement that our defence is crap. We are very solid at home so we obviously can defend when perhaps the emphasis of the other side is to try and contain us. On the road though teams still seem to fancy us as a soft touch and put more pressure on.

For me the softness through the middle of midfield plays a part. When we get pressed high we tend to panic. When teams come at us the centre of midfield offers little resistance and the back four is left exposed and over worked.

It also doesn't help that we've not been able to have any stability or continuity in our back four all season. Part of this comes from Rodgers not being sure of his best centre back pairing and rotating players in that area and that needs to be resolved. It's also come from each of our defenders, bar Skrtel, missing games due to injury. On paper i'd say our best four defenders (in terms of ability rather than performances) are Johnson, Agger, Sakho and Enrique. We've yet to start a game this season with that back four in place. Even if you opted for Skrtel instead of Agger or Sakho there's been very few occasions where we've had those four fit and able to start together.

I think a top DM would help a lot with the issues we're having conceding away from home as would having a fit and consistent centre back pairing. Deal with the issues in personnel at full back in the summer.
 

Superior Complex

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Disagree with most to be honest, the team is about goals goals goals. 100% commitment on the front foot, if caught on the counter so be it. City are similar. Goals can be leaked but if you score more you win.

If we were to tighten up the ball would be released slower.

There needs to be a destroyer dm but can also be used in powerful counter attacks, a Yaya Toure clone would be perfect.

Lucas breaks up play nothing else, world class breaking up play but literally not good at anything else. Need more than that for this type of team IMO.
 

rab

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jimbo said:
in my opinion don't know how many would disagree, but the problem is in midfield not actually our defensive. The problem for me was Lucas not his fault but he has asked to play in front of Gerrard something he's not used to. Gerrard had his work cut out and some of his passes went astray. Lucas in many times was around the pitch he's normally not in for example in the box couple of times. What I mean to say is no fault of his own but lucas is a short pass DM now asked to play a different role, although he did come to the club as a more forward midfielder he just was out of place. No player actually kept hold of the ball in midfield and only when sturridge came on he held the ball and made an out let for the players behind him to ale a breather. Of Gerrard is going to play sweeper in front of the back 4 then we need ball playing midfielders who can collect of him when there's not a pass on.
Totally agree. Away from home when teams take the game to us we've no solidity in the centre of midfield. We're too easy to overwhelm and open up in that area which heaps pressure onto the defence. As solid a job as Gerrard did defensively he did give possession away a lot which just invites them to come back at us.

If we'd had Allen instead of Lucas I think we'd have retained the ball and sucked the impetus out of their pressing game a lot better. This would of helped us control the game more and take the wind out their sails at 0-2 instead of letting them come back at us.
 

charleslee89

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costared said:
One point at a time.
I think Crouch deserves credit for his goal.He made a dummy run that created just enough time and space for him to get in a decent header.Maybe a better CB would have stopped him, who knows.
Adam goal have to agree although he did get a slice of luck with the ball going between. Skrtles legs.
Lucas can only play DM and is average at that these days which makes it hard work for the others.

Gerrard actually did some very good defending and don't forget the conditions really favoured forwards. Hendo was having a lot to do with Lucas being quiet and Coutinho being very ineffective .He has been way below last seasons excellent form so far this season. ( also needs to learn to put his foot through the ball instead of sidefooting it all the time).

Hendo has put in a lot of hard work in recent games but is another who needs to learn to shoot properly.

Could be right about Skrtle and Cissiko but I am not sure Coutinhos problem is psychological.

Maybe we did get a stroke of luck with the pen but look at the times things have gone the other way,like Sterlings "offside" goal at City for example.
We do definitely need a new MF and I think we will get one but I doubt we will get all of the others. If we get a few back from injury ,Flanagan, Sackho,Enrique, then maybe we might just be good enough for the top 4.
It seems as well that lucas is best suited as a holding midfielder, anything else will be most likely beyond him. One thing I feel that gerrard while he can do as a defensive midfielder, he is not really very good with dictating tempo from the back. Although his passing range is pretty impressive, his decision making at times is pretty suspect.

It seems also as well that we got a lot of players that has great potential but on the basis of current ability, they tend to lag behind their fellow players in the other top teams.
 

therealkeano1

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charleslee89 said:
It seems as well that lucas is best suited as a holding midfielder, anything else will be most likely beyond him. One thing I feel that gerrard while he can do as a defensive midfielder, he is not really very good with dictating tempo from the back. Although his passing range is pretty impressive, his decision making at times is pretty suspect.

It seems also as well that we got a lot of players that has great potential but on the basis of current ability, they tend to lag behind their fellow players in the other top teams.
Gerrard isn't suited to the dm role. How many times did he give away the ball in a dangerous area. Lucas is better at knitting the defense and midfield
 

Mascot88

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charleslee89 said:
One thing I feel that gerrard while he can do as a defensive midfielder, he is not really very good with dictating tempo from the back.
Gerrard is brilliant at dictating the tempo, as long as that tempo is set to 'frenetic'.

We've watched Gerrard for nigh on 15 years now in the red shirt, and has always wanted to drive the ball forward at speed. He's always looked for the early pass and he's always wanted to play at a high tempo. Sometimes that suits us and sometime it doesn't.

One time it doesn't suit is when you're faced with a team who are building a head of steam and putting you under pressure. That's the time to kill the game. On Sunday we played straight into Stoke's hands, and at two nil the game should have been over as a contest.

At the minute killing a game of football is not something that Gerrard has in his locker, so when he and Rodgers say that he'll need to learn this role it really comes down to this. If he can learn how to do this, then we have a formidable DM on our hands - the best of both world almost.
 

boston red

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Made it to my first away game amongst Stoke fans brilliant game was a bit sour at half time
We needed a good second half and with help of the ref we got a doubtful peno ..A great one two between SAS for the 4th the fifth was all Sturridge...Stoke scored good goals with 1 loss in 12 they played great football at times they had 2 defence errors ..better team came out at end
Stoke fans were alright during the game until the end chanting cheat @ Sterling and Suarez ..
Good start to new year,,
 

kopite1982

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
2,373
rab said:
It's actually our defence away from home that is the problem. 6 goals conceded in 10 games at Anfield is the joint least and just 0.6 goals a game. Away from home though we've let in 20 in 11 games at a rate of 1.8 goals a game.

That's too significant a difference to be ignored or be generalised into the statement that our defence is crap. We are very solid at home so we obviously can defend when perhaps the emphasis of the other side is to try and contain us. On the road though teams still seem to fancy us as a soft touch and put more pressure on.

For me the softness through the middle of midfield plays a part. When we get pressed high we tend to panic. When teams come at us the centre of midfield offers little resistance and the back four is left exposed and over worked.

It also doesn't help that we've not been able to have any stability or continuity in our back four all season. Part of this comes from Rodgers not being sure of his best centre back pairing and rotating players in that area and that needs to be resolved. It's also come from each of our defenders, bar Skrtel, missing games due to injury. On paper i'd say our best four defenders (in terms of ability rather than performances) are Johnson, Agger, Sakho and Enrique. We've yet to start a game this season with that back four in place. Even if you opted for Skrtel instead of Agger or Sakho there's been very few occasions where we've had those four fit and able to start together.

I think a top DM would help a lot with the issues we're having conceding away from home as would having a fit and consistent centre back pairing. Deal with the issues in personnel at full back in the summer.
Solid at home? We have only played hull, united, southampton at home out of the current top 11. And palace had there chances, cardiff did aswell. Its a huge worry!
rab said:
It's actually our defence away from home that is the problem. 6 goals conceded in 10 games at Anfield is the joint least and just 0.6 goals a game. Away from home though we've let in 20 in 11 games at a rate of 1.8 goals a game.

That's too significant a difference to be ignored or be generalised into the statement that our defence is crap. We are very solid at home so we obviously can defend when perhaps the emphasis of the other side is to try and contain us. On the road though teams still seem to fancy us as a soft touch and put more pressure on.

For me the softness through the middle of midfield plays a part. When we get pressed high we tend to panic. When teams come at us the centre of midfield offers little resistance and the back four is left exposed and over worked.

It also doesn't help that we've not been able to have any stability or continuity in our back four all season. Part of this comes from Rodgers not being sure of his best centre back pairing and rotating players in that area and that needs to be resolved. It's also come from each of our defenders, bar Skrtel, missing games due to injury. On paper i'd say our best four defenders (in terms of ability rather than performances) are Johnson, Agger, Sakho and Enrique. We've yet to start a game this season with that back four in place. Even if you opted for Skrtel instead of Agger or Sakho there's been very few occasions where we've had those four fit and able to start together.

I think a top DM would help a lot with the issues we're having conceding away from home as would having a fit and consistent centre back pairing. Deal with the issues in personnel at full back in the summer.
Solid at home? We have only played hull, united, southampton at home out of the current top 11. And palace had there chances, cardiff did aswell. Its a huge worry!
 

ptt

2020, head of the table.
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
16,542
Stoke haven't conceded more than 2 goals this season and since Jan 2013, the most they've conceded is 3. We've not won there since the 80s. Yesterday we put 5 past them and came away with 3 points. Life's just too short to look for the negatives!
 

rab

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Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
kopite1982 said:
Solid at home? We have only played hull, united, southampton at home out of the current top 11. And palace had there chances, cardiff did aswell. Its a huge worry!

Solid at home? We have only played hull, united, southampton at home out of the current top 11. And palace had there chances, cardiff did aswell. Its a huge worry!
So by that logic we shouldn't be worried about the number of away goals we've conceded as we've played all the tricky teams away?

There's such a huge difference between the number of goals conceded at home and the number conceded on the road. Is it just down to which teams we've played where or is it indicative of a larger issue. I'm not saying it's not a worry but that difference shows there's more than just a defensive issue at hand, something is different between what happens at home and what happens away. For I put it down to us being vulnerable when teams take the game to us and the lack of protection our back four get when Gerrard and Lucas play in front of them. The issue of also not being able to pick a settled back four from one game to the next also doesn't help.

As for Cardiff and Palace having chances, it's a football game of course they will have some chances.