Post Match: Sunderland 1 Liverpool 3

nowthen

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
251
Mascot88 said:
Some of you need a cold reality check.

I don't care whether the team you're playing is top or bottom - you never expect an easy ride away from home.

Any win away from home is a good result. Winning by two clear goals is great. Yes, there are some performance issues, but again, it isn't realistic to expect to have our own way for 90mins, especially away from home. Sunderland were always going to have spells of dominance.

We all want to see Liverpool teams batter sides, I really wanted to see the team steamroller Sunderland - but we also need to accept a good win with grace and realism.

Thought (contrary to everyone again) Lucas was strong in the centre - didn't really do much wrong, although his performance dipped towards the end.

Not a lot came off for Luis, but he still got two tap-ins, thanks to Sturridge - who was MOTM for me. Toure was the leader at the back, Sakho was immense and Mignolet was reliable as ever.

Very happy with the win and improved performance.
I would have to question what lucas was doing for the second goal.
Hardly any kind of attempt to close down the strike from ki for the goal. Really poor play for it. Should be trying to close a strike down quicker than that.
Couple of times second half when enrique was left 2 on 1 lucas took forever to get over to him and give him support. That is one of his main jobs to get acroos and offer the cover in those situations
 

Maria

EPL, European & FIFA World club Champions❤✊
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
17,279
Just caught up with Match of The day highlights on Aunty BBC. We going in the right direction I think ( or maybe not with some of the views but it looked good in the highlights) , great to see Suarez looking sharp and his partnership with Sturridge is in fine form, I was very impressed by Toure's contribution and the 3 away from home vital points early in the season against teams like
Sunderland was important. Well done to our team.
 

nimitzz

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
501
kipland007 said:
I'm really not trying to pick fights here, honestly asking.

Are people really happy with our performance throughout 90 minutes today? I understand all that about results being important, and it's only one game (so not trying to needlessly slag off Rodgers or the team) but from everything I saw we were woeful save our counterattacking (read: Sturridge and Suarez) and finishing.
i agree here.. we are not fluid as we were last season... yes we got some work to do... but atleast we are progressing as we work
 
R

RedRiot

Guest
The thing about counter-attacking vs. playing in possession is that some of our best weapons (Gerrard, Suarez) have a lot more to offer playing in a more direct fashion than in playing the possession game - although admittedly Gerrard was excellent last season in both approaches, while Suarez is not particularly good at being patient at any time - and even Coutinho was excellent last season mostly when we played on the counter. There are certain players in the team, such as Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Sakho who might be better at playing the tiki-taka lite style that we saw at times last season, but our major offensive weapons, including Johnson, are just better at breaking out. I think Rodgers acknowledged that in the second half of last season and adjusted our approach. We just happened to had more cutting edge so we looked better doing it. Coutinho, Sturridge, Gerrard and Suarez had an immense 4 month stretch. None of them started the season as well (Sturridge apart, and even he hasn't been as good in all-around play) so we've looked comparatively wretched. I think long-term Rodgers will look to set up the team to play in the style he wants, but I think it's a testament to his willingness to adapt and use the players he has that he's mostly set out to play in the style suited to his best players. Once Gerrard moves out of the XI and Suarez moves on, I'd expect to see a different approach, one more akin to what he prefers. As long as those two remain (particularly Suarez) I think we'll always be better on the counter. He's just not the type of player who likes to slowly build - if he gets it at his feet he wants to bomb forward and clearly that's an incredibly persuasive reason to let him play to his strengths, given how good he can be when running at defenses.

nowthen said:
I would have to question what lucas was doing for the second goal.
I would too, particularly since we only conceded one. I don't remember seeing anybody doing anything during that second goal.
 

nowthen

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
251
RedRiot said:
The thing about counter-attacking vs. playing in possession is that some of our best weapons (Gerrard, Suarez) have a lot more to offer playing in a more direct fashion than in playing the possession game - although admittedly Gerrard was excellent last season in both approaches, while Suarez is not particularly good at being patient at any time - and even Coutinho was excellent last season mostly when we played on the counter. There are certain players in the team, such as Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Sakho who might be better at playing the tiki-taka lite style that we saw at times last season, but our major offensive weapons, including Johnson, are just better at breaking out. I think Rodgers acknowledged that in the second half of last season and adjusted our approach. We just happened to had more cutting edge so we looked better doing it. Coutinho, Sturridge, Gerrard and Suarez had an immense 4 month stretch. None of them started the season as well (Sturridge apart, and even he hasn't been as good in all-around play) so we've looked comparatively wretched. I think long-term Rodgers will look to set up the team to play in the style he wants, but I think it's a testament to his willingness to adapt and use the players he has that he's mostly set out to play in the style suited to his best players. Once Gerrard moves out of the XI and Suarez moves on, I'd expect to see a different approach, one more akin to what he prefers. As long as those two remain (particularly Suarez) I think we'll always be better on the counter. He's just not the type of player who likes to slowly build - if he gets it at his feet he wants to bomb forward and clearly that's an incredibly persuasive reason to let him play to his strengths, given how good he can be when running at defenses.


I would too, particularly since we only conceded one. I don't remember seeing anybody doing anything during that second goal.
Sorry half asleep. meant for the goal
 

Maria

EPL, European & FIFA World club Champions❤✊
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
17,279
One quick query guys, what was written on Suarez's vest, I missed that bit ?
 
R

RedRiot

Guest
nowthen said:
Sorry half asleep. meant for the goal
Yeah, I know, I was just messing with you. I don't think anybody but Mignolet should really be held responsible for that goal. The player was contained and took a hopeful but weak shot that Mignolet should easily have handled. It's probably his first mistake on a goal that I can remember, but it has to be his. Not a big deal, he makes more saves than anyone in the league so making that mistake can't really be a reason for harsh criticism. It just happens.
 

pagasp

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
37
I think Lucas is playing reasonably well and certainly not doing much wrong, but I just have that nagging doubt given the injury he suffered. Does he look a little less sharp, perhaps a wee bit slower? It just doesn't feel like he is back to his boss best, maybe the five bookings so far is an indication of this. Hopefully he gets there in time whether sooner or later because he was our best player for a fair while there and he is exactly what we need in there and people have struggled to come back from similar injuries over the years

Even Stevie G's been putting a few passes awry in recent games although he more than made up for it with that storming ball today that led straight to our second.

Can't help thinking that he's slightly out of position tbh, he can do a job in a more holding role no problem but I just like to see him in more attacking positions, plus you still need a lot of energy in the holding role, possibly more than in the attacking role. Might be an idea with Coutinho out.
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
Moderator
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
26,460
Maria said:
One quick query guys, what was written on Suarez's vest, I missed that bit ?
"Welcome Benja, Los Amo" - with a picture of his family. Benja is a diminutive for his son Benjamin born on Thursday, 'los amo' is 'I love them'. I did not get a good look at the photo, but I think Benja was in the middle. ;)
 

Maria

EPL, European & FIFA World club Champions❤✊
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
17,279
Arminius said:
"Welcome Benja, Los Amo" - with a picture of his family. Benja is a diminutive for his son Benjamin born on Thursday, 'los amo' is 'I love them'. I did not get a good look at the photo, but I think Benja was in the middle. ;)
Thanks Arminius, :)
Aww, he had a baby boy, thats so lovely and then he scores two goals :) . No wonder Suarez is looking chirpy. Congratulations to him. So, he's born a scouser then.
 

WrongIslander

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
3,213
Arminius said:
"Welcome Benja, Los Amo" - with a picture of his family. Benja is a diminutive for his son Benjamin born on Thursday, 'los amo' is 'I love them'. I did not get a good look at the photo, but I think Benja was in the middle. ;)
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
3-5-2 seems to be the way to go with the players we have. We had a good outing v United and now v Sunderland. Sturridge and Suarez are clicking. Once we have Johnson, Cissokho and Coutinho back, we'll be rocking
 

Ataturk

★★★★★
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
4,360
Slightly disappointing performance in general, but it was our quality up front which made the difference. Mouth-watering how good the Sturridge and Suarez partnership has the potential to be.

Just on the Lucas yellow, he was covering for Hendo's mistake. By rights Hendo should have taken that yellow. Not too important anyway as I don't think we'll miss him too much against Palace.
 

NZred

The Red From NZ
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,797
RedRiot said:
The thing about counter-attacking vs. playing in possession is that some of our best weapons (Gerrard, Suarez) have a lot more to offer playing in a more direct fashion than in playing the possession game - although admittedly Gerrard was excellent last season in both approaches, while Suarez is not particularly good at being patient at any time - and even Coutinho was excellent last season mostly when we played on the counter. There are certain players in the team, such as Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Sakho who might be better at playing the tiki-taka lite style that we saw at times last season, but our major offensive weapons, including Johnson, are just better at breaking out. I think Rodgers acknowledged that in the second half of last season and adjusted our approach. We just happened to had more cutting edge so we looked better doing it. Coutinho, Sturridge, Gerrard and Suarez had an immense 4 month stretch. None of them started the season as well (Sturridge apart, and even he hasn't been as good in all-around play) so we've looked comparatively wretched. I think long-term Rodgers will look to set up the team to play in the style he wants, but I think it's a testament to his willingness to adapt and use the players he has that he's mostly set out to play in the style suited to his best players. Once Gerrard moves out of the XI and Suarez moves on, I'd expect to see a different approach, one more akin to what he prefers. As long as those two remain (particularly Suarez) I think we'll always be better on the counter. He's just not the type of player who likes to slowly build - if he gets it at his feet he wants to bomb forward and clearly that's an incredibly persuasive reason to let him play to his strengths, given how good he can be when running at defenses.


I would too, particularly since we only conceded one. I don't remember seeing anybody doing anything during that second goal.
The whole back 5 were pretty static for their goal. No bothered to close him down and Mignolet really should have held the shot. It was pretty weak and close in to his body.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,153
kipland007 said:
I'm really not trying to pick fights here, honestly asking.

Are people really happy with our performance throughout 90 minutes today? I understand all that about results being important, and it's only one game (so not trying to needlessly slag off Rodgers or the team) but from everything I saw we were woeful save our counterattacking (read: Sturridge and Suarez) and finishing.
That's the point right there.

People are expecting to go to the stadium of light, rocking after sacking a hated manager, and be the best team for ninety minutes of football - to not give Sunderland a sniff of the ball. Sorry, but that just isn't a realistic way to approach a game of football, and if that's what you're expecting then you are always going to be left disappointed.

It isn't like that for any side, and it wasn't like that for us in the seventies and eighties.

I remember coming here after thumping Newcastle 0 - 6 and I swear there was someone moaning about the 15minutes that the Geordies looked a bit menacing after the break.

Sunderland had spells of the game when they were very much the better side. That's normal and very much to be expected. But we contained them and were the better side overall - good value for the three points.

Bottom line is...

1) we won
2) the performance was exactly what you'd expect going away from home to side under pressure
3) if you can't enjoy a 3 - 1 victory away from home, I really don't know why you're interested in football.
 

Tetteh_Dalglish

Paul the Octopus
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
4,269
ILLOK said:
Didn't play as a team but Suarez and Sturridge were magnificent on the counter.

Toure was huge at the back.What a player he is. Skrtel and Sakho very good again.

Henderson was poor and Lucas was even worse, like playing with 10 men such was his contribution.
I didn't think Henderson was poor - he put in a good shift tracking back defensively on the right and offered an out from the right. He's not a natural crosser, but he put in a couple of good balls that nearly produced. Again, he is suffering because of his versatility. He's a CM being asked to play everywhere from RB to RWB to RM. That's likely a function of injuries and his ability to work hard for the team.

Lucas was far more invisible and he has not been at his best in recent times. That said, he broke up their play quite well at times. I'd like to see him do a bit more in possession, but I didn't think he had a bad game.

Gerrard is crying out for a rest though and I'm glad he came through the match unscathed.
 

WrongIslander

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
3,213
Mascot88 said:
That's the point right there.

People are expecting to go to the stadium of light, rocking after sacking a hated manager, and be the best team for ninety minutes of football - to not give Sunderland a sniff of the ball. Sorry, but that just isn't a realistic way to approach a game of football, and if that's what you're expecting then you are always going to be left disappointed.

It isn't like that for any side, and it wasn't like that for us in the seventies and eighties.

I remember coming here after thumping Newcastle 0 - 6 and I swear there was someone moaning about the 15minutes that the Geordies looked a bit menacing after the break.

Sunderland had spells of the game when they were very much the better side. That's normal and very much to be expected. But we contained them and were the better side overall - good value for the three points.

Bottom line is...

1) we won
2) the performance was exactly what you'd expect going away from home to side under pressure
3) if you can't enjoy a 3 - 1 victory away from home, I really don't know why you're interested in football.
The best way to judge will be when United go there next. If they play as well as they did against us that won't be an easy game for United.
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
Ataturk said:
Slightly disappointing performance in general, but it was our quality up front which made the difference. Mouth-watering how good the Sturridge and Suarez partnership has the potential to be.

Just on the Lucas yellow, he was covering for Hendo's mistake. By rights Hendo should have taken that yellow. Not too important anyway as I don't think we'll miss him too much against Palace.
One game suspension, I assume? Not a bad time to try Henderson in the middle along Gerrard. With 3 CBs that might just work.
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
Mascot88 said:
That's the point right there.
People are expecting to go to the stadium of light, rocking after sacking a hated manager, and be the best team for ninety minutes of football - to not give Sunderland a sniff of the ball. Sorry, but that just isn't a realistic way to approach a game of football, and if that's what you're expecting then you are always going to be left disappointed.
It isn't like that for any side, and it wasn't like that for us in the seventies and eighties.
I remember coming here after thumping Newcastle 0 - 6 and I swear there was someone moaning about the 15minutes that the Geordies looked a bit menacing after the break.
Sunderland had spells of the game when they were very much the better side. That's normal and very much to be expected. But we contained them and were the better side overall - good value for the three points.
Bottom line is...
1) we won
2) the performance was exactly what you'd expect going away from home to side under pressure
3) if you can't enjoy a 3 - 1 victory away from home, I really don't know why you're interested in football.
1) yes
2) yes
3) yes
 

WrongIslander

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
3,213
Canuck33 said:
One game suspension, I assume? Not a bad time to try Henderson in the middle along Gerrard. With 3 CBs that might just work.
Once again showing why we needed to buy defensive midfield cover. I'm just glad we're missing Lucas against a side we should really beat with or without his help, that said you never know and that Jedinak is no mug in the middle.

Gerrard needs a rest sooner rather than later also.
 

104TOSH

mystic, clown and philosopher
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
1,700
RJK said:
And Allen. People seem to have forgotten him. Would at least bring some competition to the midfield & improve our pass rate.
To be honest I am not his biggest fan, so yes, I had forgotten about him! Hope he proves me wrong.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,153
WrongIslander said:
The best way to judge will be when United go there next. If they play as well as they did against us that won't be an easy game for United.
They'll probably win, but Sunderland will still have spells where they pin them back, and attack them. Even if Utd keep a clean sheet, they'll have a few near misses, and 'could have been a goal' attempts.

Not because they are shit, or Sunderland are really good - because that's just what happens in a game of football.
 

Tetteh_Dalglish

Paul the Octopus
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
4,269
kipland007 said:
I'm really not trying to pick fights here, honestly asking.

Are people really happy with our performance throughout 90 minutes today? I understand all that about results being important, and it's only one game (so not trying to needlessly slag off Rodgers or the team) but from everything I saw we were woeful save our counterattacking (read: Sturridge and Suarez) and finishing.
Woeful seems a strong word. We have been setting up to play counter attack - that was our strategy with this formation. And we counter-attacked superbly. I congratulate Rogers and his folks for getting the players set-up to be able to play this counter-attacking tactic fairly well away from home. Last year we'd camp in opponents half and force them to put 11 men behind the ball and we'd struggle to break them down. Now that we have some pace in Moses and Sturridge, and Suarez's link-up play, we've adapted a bit. Good for us.

That said, there was plenty of room for improvement. Our defense looked a bit wobbly at times, especially when we tried to pass it out from the back. These kinds of performances remind us that we are a work in progress. We are playing a new system with 2 out of 3 new CBs and a new 'keeper whose distribution of the ball isn't as good as Pepe's. Opponents are pressing us high up the field knowing it can be a weakness and it's an area we need to address. Already so far, I see we're working on going a bit longer to ease pressure, and Toure found Sturridge and Suarez occasionally with a direct pass to ease some pressure.

The problem with playing 3-5-2, is when both the opponent's full-backs overlap, you end up needing to slide over your midfield to provide cover, which can leave openings in the middle of the park. We had to scramble a bit to close them down and looked a bit fragile. I thought a lot of that was because Gerrard didn't have the legs to slide over as quickly at times, but he was giving it 100% and put in a good shift. Lucas was also providing good cover in midfield, but at times we looked out-gunned in CM. Some of that is because Moses is not a natural CM - he's a winger being asked to play AM. And he's doing a solid job when we're attacking, but doesn't really close opponents down particularly well.

Anyway - there's plenty of areas to focus on to improve and we all knew that was going to be the case this season. The good thing is we are more dangerous now and are better at getting goals in than we have been in the past. Our 'keeper is top draw and he has made several great saves today - credit to whoever brought him in. Much as I love Pepe, his form had dipped and whoever signed Mignolet made a very shrewd decision.

Hopefully we'll continue to improve as the season progresses and eventually be able to play Coutinho, Sturridge, Suarez and Moses together in one side. That promises to bring even more goals.
 

TippRed

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
440
Was playing myself today at 2.00 so it was perfect timing. Back in the pub for 4.20 to watch match
Broke my nose during my game so needed a good pick me up. 3:1 to the pool was perfect.
Suarez & Sturridge were class. Starting to realy worry about Lucas, I realy rate him when he's on his game but he hasn't been even close to it this season.
 

Bobbinho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
1,700
I am happy with this win for many reason's, but im not going to sugar coat what i see as certain issue's that we still have re our performance.

By the look of things, it will take time for BR to find the right balance throughout the team, its not just the midfield that is at times off kilter, there is much work to be done, it is frustrating when it seems that we are capable of better, still wasteful in possession at times, simple stuff really like just holding the ball when needed....& distributing the ball at the right time...to the right player & so on, makes us look a little disjointed, not quite fluid enough or settled.

However, couldn't help but be impressed with certain individuals, Toure is fast becoming a legend for me, his enthusiasm & passion is like a welcome breath of fresh air in the team which actually beg's the question why the fuck have we not been seeing more of this from other player's.................? seeing him closing in on the opposition box with the ball & getting a decent shot off is for me a joy to watch, really cannot speak highly enough of Toure, has gone well beyond my expectations, brings so much spirit to the team, actually looks like he's enjoying playing for us......i mean wtf is all that about? :huh:

There are definite sign's of improvement & definite area's of concern, that's where we are atm, flattered somewhat by our league position (which of course im loving.. :D ) with a long hard season ahead, player's who need to come back from injuries & competition for those players....which is very important, the fact that we have got back to winning way's cannot be underestimated either, anything less than a win today would have been a big set back, it is about maintaining a level of confidence that we're simply not used to....its been so long since we've maintained some winning form in the league, granted our fixtures have been kind but for our younger & newer player's it is very important for their confidence, will help them to settle easier, hopefully we will see more improvement as the season progresses.

As for Lucas, i think he was penalized for following through on the tackle..., it was unnecessary & means at least we won't have to debate whether he should he be dropped or not for the next game....should be interesting to see if Illori will be given a run out or whether BR will drop Hendo in with Gerrard or Allen? this is one area that seriously needs sorting out & IF we can crack it by finding the right balance we might well be in with a shout at top4, but at least we saw out the game today, improvement there...

As for Gerrard, people seem to forget that he whipped that cross in for Sturridge to create the first goal.....& then played a beauty of a 40 yard pass diagonally up the pitch straight to Sturridge who cut into the box setting Suarez up for a sitter, that's 2 goals basically created from Gerrard, easy to criticise apsects of his play at times but you cannot deny what he brings to the side in terms of impacting the game.... good to see Sturridge linking up well with Suarez in this game, both player's were a little off in the last game so this was def an improvement, so far so good...

Sakho, brings composure at the back, play's the ball well, is not wasteful & looks to be something of a player to be reckoned with, Moses not quite up to scratch but will improve once he settles im sure, difficult for him to play that position but he's coping okay so far, Enrique, as usual in and out performance, bloody wasteful with the ball at times, is lucky that Cissokho isn't fit because sadly i don't see him playing like a player who's trying to win that position for himself & if he is then he's just not good enough....

Mignolet, perhaps should have tried to hang onto the ball for the shot that resulted in their goal, wasn't happy that they were allowed to cut through us so easy to get that shot off though...., made a couple of good save's, bit nervy at one point early on but otherwise looked confident & assured.

To sum up, i think we can do better, far from convincing but we do seem to have ironed out some of the flaws that have seen us lose or draw games like these last season....

That is surely a positive, & so is being second in the league after six games, i think some credit has to go to Brendan for that..
 

artanisknarf

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
112
Very nice performance and an even better result.
Some played good, and most even better. No criticism here.
Bring on Palace.
Drop Hendo in for suspended Lucas and give Sterling a start. No other changes.
 

Tetteh_Dalglish

Paul the Octopus
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
4,269
Rogers: "We've changed the structure of our team a bit to allow us to pass it better - we've still got a lot of work to do - but also to fit in with the type of players that we have.".

Seems an honest assessment.
 

therealkeano1

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
1,065
Good enough performance today very professional. Sunderland even with all their shots didn't trouble us too much and mignolet save at the start of the second half was immense and it shows we haven't learnt from Wednesday night so hopefully we will in future. Saurez was good. Hopefully we can get Moses out on the wing soon.Also on the Lucas front he did well for what he had to do. Cattermole Larsson and ki didn't do much today and don't really play great football where you would see the importance of Lucas.