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POST MATCH Thread: Liverpool 1-2 Man Utd

Le_hunt

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I mean, filing a complaint for TWITTER abuse...

how easy is it seriously ?

take a bunch of John Does. and I mean from anywhere: Liverpool, Manchester, Oldham, Dublin, Paris, Saint-Vincent de Tyrosse or Katmandou as we're at it, anywhere an Internet network is available.

open twitter accounts galore. upload LFC-related profile pics, feed the "location" blank with "Liverpool". take an english name, describe in your "describe yourself" blank how much you love all things LFC. then shout random atrocious abuse to Mike Hasley.

when these simple steps lead to "Liverpool supporters abusing Hasley on Twitter", and unless people are to waste time trying to locate the "supporters" through IP-address tracking systems in order to try to establish how genuine the abuse was, I don't know what to think anymore.
 


AnfieldCat

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I mean, filing a complaint for TWITTER abuse...

how easy is it seriously ?

take a bunch of John Does. and I mean from anywhere: Liverpool, Manchester, Oldham, Dublin, Paris, Saint-Vincent de Tyrosse or Katmandou as we're at it, anywhere an Internet network is available.

open twitter accounts galore. upload LFC-related profile pics, feed the "location" blank with "Liverpool". take an english name, describe in your "describe yourself" blank how much you love all things LFC. then shout random atrocious abuse to Mike Hasley.

when these simple steps lead to "Liverpool supporters abusing Hasley on Twitter", and unless people are to waste time trying to locate the "supporters" through IP-address tracking systems in order to try to establish how genuine the abuse was, I don't know what to think anymore.
Spot on, and when I listen to some 'Liverpool' fans on the radio phone ins saying ludicrous things like 'Rodgers Out' or 'We should sell Suarez' I'm convinced its Mancs or Evertonians in disguise.
 

Mascot88

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The contributors to the Anfield Wrap an excellent point about this game - that the difference between Utd and Liverpool was the formers willingness to get in the referees ear and chip away at him.

Not aggression or vitriol, but the constant narrative and commentary on the game that influences referees without them even knowing it. Paul Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand especially.

We don't have anyone in our team who does that, and haven't for the last 5-6 years. And we wonder why we never get a rub of the green from referees?

Any thoughts?
 

King Aldo

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The contributors to the Anfield Wrap an excellent point about this game - that the difference between Utd and Liverpool was the formers willingness to get in the referees ear and chip away at him.

Not aggression or vitriol, but the constant narrative and commentary on the game that influences referees without them even knowing it. Paul Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand especially.

We don't have anyone in our team who does that, and haven't for the last 5-6 years. And we wonder why we never get a rub of the green from referees?

Any thoughts?

The last time Mascherano asked the referee to explain why he was booking Torres when Torres was the one who had been fouled he got sent off for not showing RESPECT to the referee. Amazingly this was Steve Bennett at Old Toilet.

Remember RESPECT ... the way Man Utd players do like you outline above !!!
 

BelfastRed89

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Until the FA gets with the times and has a panel with tv replays to judge the big decisions, games will always be won or lost on refs errors. Not even their fault, FA's.
I forgot to give props to Suso on his performance in the second half. 100% pass completion, shot on goal and insturmental in Stevie's goal. Fantastic.
We will be winning soon, even with the injuries.
I think by now everyone expects refs to make mistakes but the problem is that we aren't getting any of these "ref errors" in or favour. They are constantly going against us while clearcut fouls/penalties against us are not given. That's where everyone is getting so annoyed. I don't want a biased ref giving us everything, just a fair one. It's not that much to ask.
 



legalalien

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From today's BBC gossip page:


After it was revealed Nemanja Vidic will miss eight weeks after undergoing knee surgery, winger Antonio Valencia, 27, left the club's Carrington training ground on crutches with his right foot in a protective boot.
Full story: Daily Mail


Poetic justice.
 

Archer

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Halsey and fergie at a charity dinner...I'd love a photo of that!
 

Arminius

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I think by now everyone expects refs to make mistakes but the problem is that we aren't getting any of these "ref errors" in or favour. They are constantly going against us while clearcut fouls/penalties against us are not given. That's where everyone is getting so annoyed. I don't want a biased ref giving us everything, just a fair one. It's not that much to ask.
Probably the most exasperating element of all of this is the lapdog nature of the English press. Just looked at it again, and that Luis tacke on Walter this weekend was clearly studs-up, two-footed and absolutely deliberate. Far worse than Shelvey (or Evans, for that matter), worse than RvP's. Yet the press has completely moved on. Quite the contrast to the US' NFL coverage this week, which is just exploding over a very poor call in a Green Bay-Seattle game that decided the outcome, albeit in the context of a broader labour dispute. But the NFL's position is rapidly becoming untenable because of the overwhelming focus on the quality of the call. If the English press had half that attention span, consistency in refereeing might not be a pipedream.
 

Quagmire81

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The last time Mascherano asked the referee to explain why he was booking Torres when Torres was the one who had been fouled he got sent off for not showing RESPECT to the referee. Amazingly this was Steve Bennett at Old Toilet.

Remember RESPECT ... the way Man Utd players do like you outline above !!!
I remember that episode, that call was absolutely out of line. Kinda shows how far back it goes with refs giving us a hard time opposed to united.
What about when webb ruined the game against them in the fa-cup with a pen in 2min and red in 8min back when daglish just took over from roy.
 

lfc.eddie

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Probably the most exasperating element of all of this is the lapdog nature of the English press. Just looked at it again, and that Luis tacke on Walter this weekend was clearly studs-up, two-footed and absolutely deliberate. Far worse than Shelvey (or Evans, for that matter), worse than RvP's. Yet the press has completely moved on. Quite the contrast to the US' NFL coverage this week, which is just exploding over a very poor call in a Green Bay-Seattle game that decided the outcome, albeit in the context of a broader labour dispute. But the NFL's position is rapidly becoming untenable because of the overwhelming focus on the quality of the call. If the English press had half that attention span, consistency in refereeing might not be a pipedream.
Uhm, I think they have like some 6 - 8 refs/umpires/whatever you wanna call it in an NFL match, overweight and has much easier call compared to football, free flowing and moving all the time and with only 1 guy on the pitch. I am not excusing Halsey for doing what he did, but drawing that comparison is moot point because you would expect these fellas to make the call much better with that many eyes on every angle of a play. To top it off, you got those time outs and instant replay for them to refer to. To have a bad call would be unjust.

You can never take NFL refs decision making and compared it to real football. The closest you would get is ice hockey or NBA. Even then they have 4 refs in a smaller pitch, time outs and instant replay to discuss a decision or foul called. Football, you don't have any of it, and 3 fellas, 2 covering half the pitch and stagnant along the lines and 1 covering the whole length of the pitch.

Media coverage or not, it would make little difference because margin of error for referees in a real football game is much greater. If they want to improve this, they need to put in 4 lines-man/assistant, one on each side. That would help much more. Not like that EURO style where both linesman are on the same side, one is on the byline and the other is on the side.
 



Mascot88

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The last time Mascherano asked the referee to explain why he was booking Torres when Torres was the one who had been fouled he got sent off for not showing RESPECT to the referee. Amazingly this was Steve Bennett at Old Toilet.

Remember RESPECT ... the way Man Utd players do like you outline above !!!
No, different entirely.

I watched the match again after listening to the Wrap. Every time the game stops either Giggs or Scholes wander up to the Ref and have a little word. They don't charge up to him or run after him. Just a quiet little friendly word.

Sometimes it will be a 'fair play ref, that's a good shout'. Sometimes it's 'not sure about that Ref, you might have made a mistake there'. Constant chipping away, sowing seeds.

All very nice and friendly until bang - 'fucking hell ref, thats a red card' or 'Suarez has fucking dived there' or 'that's a penalty'.

With us it's either accept the decision and walk meekly away or fly in shouting and spitting. If we want better decisions we need to start taking control of the referee.

The Mascherano example is different. This isn't shouting and swearing at the referee, it's just taking every opportunity to have a little word.

Gerrard should be doing this of course, but as usual he's nowhere to be seen.

Listen to the Anfield Wrap - its one of the most insightful criticisms of us I've heard in a long time.
 

King Aldo

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... I'll listen to it Mascot but I was just making the point that we have tried this approach in the past (albeit not as competently) but that it backfired on us, so maybe the lads were just told to walk away from the refs.

You might be right, maybe its time we got a bit smarter about this subject of ref-management.
 

Arminius

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Uhm, I think they have like some 6 - 8 refs/umpires/whatever you wanna call it in an NFL match, overweight and has much easier call compared to football, free flowing and moving all the time and with only 1 guy on the pitch. I am not excusing Halsey for doing what he did, but drawing that comparison is moot point because you would expect these fellas to make the call much better with that many eyes on every angle of a play. To top it off, you got those time outs and instant replay for them to refer to. To have a bad call would be unjust.

You can never take NFL refs decision making and compared it to real football. The closest you would get is ice hockey or NBA. Even then they have 4 refs in a smaller pitch, time outs and instant replay to discuss a decision or foul called. Football, you don't have any of it, and 3 fellas, 2 covering half the pitch and stagnant along the lines and 1 covering the whole length of the pitch.

Media coverage or not, it would make little difference because margin of error for referees in a real football game is much greater. If they want to improve this, they need to put in 4 lines-man/assistant, one on each side. That would help much more. Not like that EURO style where both linesman are on the same side, one is on the byline and the other is on the side.
I think you are underestimating how hard it is to ref American football (only a few calls can be checked by replay), but I did not mean to compare the reffing - simply the media response. Not sure if you have seen the Luiz tackle on Walters I was referring to, but it was terrible, by far the worst of the weekend. Frustrated as I am by the Shelvey call, the inconsistency is more maddening and I simply refuse to believe it cannot be improved upon. For a start, the 4th official could not have had a better view of that. The English football media seem all too ready to trot out some cliches about it 'evening out' and move on, and it just doesn't. Heck, Martinez is up on FA charges for making a similar complaint about Wigan's game against ManU.
 

Mascot88

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... I'll listen to it Mascot but I was just making the point that we have tried this approach in the past (albeit not as competently) but that it backfired on us, so maybe the lads were just told to walk away from the refs.

You might be right, maybe its time we got a bit smarter about this subject of ref-management.
Here is a case in point.

The first bad tackle Shelvey makes (the one he gets away with right on the touchline near the dugout) a couple of United players, and Ferguson, all chip in to say that the ref needs to keep an eye on him and he is being reckless. Not angry or raging. Twenty minutes later he is gone. They sowed the seed, and steered Halsey to that decision. It why Shelvey has a pop at Slur Alex on his way off.

Ref management. We need to be cuter.
 

jayrrardno8

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Defo see were Martinez is coming from but its been like that for years with whiskey nose and refs also the FA.
I hope Martinez fights his corner give the FA the video from Our game on sunday and many more evidence thats gone on in the past.
 



Wathik_LFC

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You're probably quite right, but what I have been wanting to know for some time now is, how come your avatar looks just like me 20 years ago? You didn't happen to be in Hong Kong back then, eh? It's uncanny.
Haha I get that a lot, guess I have one of those faces. 20 years ago I was 11 living in London. Never been to China yet!
 

grooveshark

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Here is a case in point.

The first bad tackle Shelvey makes (the one he gets away with right on the touchline near the dugout) a couple of United players, and Ferguson, all chip in to say that the ref needs to keep an eye on him and he is being reckless. Not angry or raging. Twenty minutes later he is gone. They sowed the seed, and steered Halsey to that decision. It why Shelvey has a pop at Slur Alex on his way off.

Ref management. We need to be cuter.
he didnt book Shelvey, and he also let Evra get away with something similar on Sterling......he was consistent on that one call.

On the nred, i told a friend he was off when i saw the challenge in real time....it looked bad, still havent changed my mind......and the Pen for me stands......if you make contact with someones shooting leg, you take any advantage away from the attacking team. Saw a freekick given when Torres did something similar on Nzonzi
 

Mascot88

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he didnt book Shelvey, and he also let Evra get away with something similar on Sterling......he was consistent on that one call.

On the nred, i told a friend he was off when i saw the challenge in real time....it looked bad, still havent changed my mind......and the Pen for me stands......if you make contact with someones shooting leg, you take any advantage away from the attacking team. Saw a freekick given when Torres did something similar on Nzonzi
That's the point. The Ref should have given Shelvey a card for the earlier foul, and the Utd player let him know that.

When Shelvey and Evans go in on each other (and no one going to tell me that Evans challenge wasn't far worse) the Referee is already thinking he's made a mistake in the earlier one, and Shelvey is playing dangerously.
 

King Aldo

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When a guy shows up as a new poster and starts defending the indefensible in favour of Man Utd and against LFC, as their only contribution to the boards then you have to wonder what jersey they pull on come 3pm on a Saturday.
 

redbj

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When a guy shows up as a new poster and starts defending the indefensible in favour of Man Utd and against LFC, as their only contribution to the boards then you have to wonder what jersey they pull on come 3pm on a Saturday.
the referees?
 



football.tiger

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To be honest, 5 mins before Shelvey's tackle I was thinking "he's going to do something rash", simply because the game was passing him by - bad decision-making, misplaced passes, etc...
 

MarlboroMan

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That's the point. The Ref should have given Shelvey a card for the earlier foul, and the Utd player let him know that.

When Shelvey and Evans go in on each other (and no one going to tell me that Evans challenge wasn't far worse) the Referee is already thinking he's made a mistake in the earlier one, and Shelvey is playing dangerously.

That's the thing that isn't being reported at all that Evans also went in two footed and was carded at all. The only difference in that exchange was that Shelvey's follow through resulted in his foot crashing into Evans. Jonjo went in two footed sure but they were about a yard apart while Evans two feet where just inches apart. Both players got the ball, Evans first then Shelvey but only Jonjo's right foot made contact with Evans. A fair punishment would have been to yellow card both players and move on.

Also the Pen wasn't a pen cause if it was then we should have had one earlier on the foul by Evans on Suarez.
 

grooveshark

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That's the point. The Ref should have given Shelvey a card for the earlier foul, and the Utd player let him know that.

When Shelvey and Evans go in on each other (and no one going to tell me that Evans challenge wasn't far worse) the Referee is already thinking he's made a mistake in the earlier one, and Shelvey is playing dangerously.
dont know why people are reading too much into my comments. I wanted the team to win above all else. Did i think the ref was as bad as people claim he was? No. I honestly thought that Shelvey was off for the challenge, i knew he was late, and could see that his feet were off the ground, i only found out that Evans had also left his feet at the half. Did the ref get it wrong in that regard? Yes, but people so often forget that these officials dont have the benefit of a replay that we have. I read this one topic and one would think that the ref was out to sabotage the team on the day, and that is something dont agree with. Pen was on i would give based on the fact that it is a foul that i see given regularly. Painful as it is to lose to United, and given the performance even after going a man down, i personally fail to see the ref as being incompetent
 

Mascot88

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Painful as it is to lose to United, and given the performance even after going a man down, i personally fail to see the ref as being incompetent
I've no problem with refs making mistakes. I just want consistency. Van Persies challenge in the same game was worse than Shelvey, and it only got a yellow. The challenge on Henderson last night was even worse than both and didn't even produce a card.

Every single week we're getting shafted by referees and I'm sick of it.
 



Arminius

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I've no problem with refs making mistakes. I just want consistency. Van Persies challenge in the same game was worse than Shelvey, and it only got a yellow. The challenge on Henderson last night was even worse than both and didn't even produce a card.

Every single week we're getting shafted by referees and I'm sick of it.
Just moving it outside of an LFC perspective - the consistency is woeful. Take those tackles you note, plus Luiz on Walters this past weekend, and put them in any kind of ranking. The card versus the severity of the offence just makes no sense.
 

Archer

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Defo see were Martinez is coming from but its been like that for years with whiskey nose and refs also the FA.
I hope Martinez fights his corner give the FA the video from Our game on sunday and many more evidence thats gone on in the past.
after what welbeck did, its disgusting that martinez has been charged
 

BelfastRed89

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Here is a case in point.

The first bad tackle Shelvey makes (the one he gets away with right on the touchline near the dugout) a couple of United players, and Ferguson, all chip in to say that the ref needs to keep an eye on him and he is being reckless. Not angry or raging. Twenty minutes later he is gone. They sowed the seed, and steered Halsey to that decision. It why Shelvey has a pop at Slur Alex on his way off.

Ref management. We need to be cuter.
I see your point but I would remain to be convinced it would work for anyone other than United, perhaps in other games but not in games between us and them. If we had been buttering the ref up in the same way would he have sent Evans off? Van Persie? Given Suarez the penalty? I doubt it to be honest. It's a very interesting theory but I really don't think it would've made much difference to the decisions of the ref at the weekend.