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Post match: Villa v Liverpool (EPL 2/11/2019 3pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 57 38.0%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Robertson (GOAL 87’)

    Votes: 72 48.0%
  • Lallana

    Votes: 15 10.0%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Salah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Firmino

    Votes: 4 2.7%
  • Mane (GOAL 90+4’)

    Votes: 104 69.3%
  • Origi (on 65’)

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain (on 65’)

    Votes: 5 3.3%
  • Keita (on 84’)

    Votes: 2 1.3%

  • Total voters
    150
  • Poll closed .


Rambler

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[QUOTE="indianscouser, post: 1172466, member:
The real thing that bothers me is,
Hand ball in box is now deemed a penalty, then why didn't var give is penalty? It was clean pen.
Applying selectively? Scums got 2 last week.
[/QUOTE]

No it isn’t.....

The Law now states that a handball is awarded if a player makes his body bigger with his arm, and it is automatically an offence if the arm is above shoulder height. It is now also clear that there is no handball offence if the ball deflects onto the arm, or if the ball hits a player who is using his arm for support.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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No it isn’t.....

The Law now states that a handball is awarded if a player makes his body bigger with his arm, and it is automatically an offence if the arm is above shoulder height. It is now also clear that there is no handball offence if the ball deflects onto the arm, or if the ball hits a player who is using his arm for support.
How do you explain Mane's handball against United? His hands was low and on the side of his body, ball grazed his thigh and touched his arm. He scored and deemed foul by VAR for handball. He didn't reach with his arm. VAR won't solve problems when the one managing it is still the same inept bunch. Technology only good for you when it is managed by competent people.
 

Rambler

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How do you explain Mane's handball against United? His hands was low and on the side of his body, ball grazed his thigh and touched his arm. He scored and deemed foul by VAR for handball. He didn't reach with his arm. VAR won't solve problems when the one managing it is still the same inept bunch. Technology only good for you when it is managed by competent people.
Different scenario as all goals are disallowed now if it touches the arm or hand.

"Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season, even if it is accidental," says the Premier League.
 



Rambler

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Be that as it may, I’m finding it increasingly hard to discount Atkinson’s blatant bias against us. To the point where the club needs to say something
Strangely, Evertonians are now feeling exactly the same about Atkinson. :LOL:
 



Limiescouse

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Are you seriously telling me that every motion in the game is re ran by the VAR assistant? Only what they see as questionable is reviewed.
Maybe define what you think you mean by "reviewed", because it appears you are drawing a distinction that does not exist. The entire game is conducted with VAR oversight. We only see evidence of the VAR review when ref has already stopped the game and will not restart it until VAR has come to a conclusion.
 

Prolix

Long Time Nemesis™
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Maybe define what you think you mean by "reviewed", because it appears you are drawing a distinction that does not exist. The entire game is conducted with VAR oversight. We only see evidence of the VAR review when ref has already stopped the game and will not restart it until VAR has come to a conclusion.
I was guilty of (wrongly) asking why the handball incident "wasn't reviewed". Perhaps a more accurate question would be "why did that incident not merit a level of scrutiny that would have required the referee to halt the restart of play, thus bringing it to the attention of the broadcasters?"

It seemed to me that any assessment of the incident must have been rather cursory for what seemed to be a blatant handball penalty.

Also, I still don't understand why PL on-field referees are never electing to review footage of incidents themselves.
 



Limiescouse

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I was guilty of (wrongly) asking why the handball incident "wasn't reviewed". Perhaps a more accurate question would be "why did that incident not merit a level of scrutiny that would have required the referee to halt the restart of play, thus bringing it to the attention of the broadcasters?"

It seemed to me that any assessment of the incident must have been rather cursory for what seemed to be a blatant handball penalty.
That, I think, is the right question. But it's also one we know the answer to - the guidelines for use of VAR in the PL make it difficult to intervene when a ref has let something go (reluctance to re referee subjective decisions).

In a situation like that they would say something along the lines of "jon, did you see that he blocked that shot with his hand", and if the ref says, I saw that but feel the position of the hand was natural, then VAR no where else to go with the PL guidelines.

Of course, it is possible that VAR just completely missed that it hit his hand as well, or that they saw it and decided it wasnt worth a conversation (agreed with Moss' subjective decision). I dont know, but what we do know is that this was NOT because "VAR didnt review it."

Also, I still don't understand why PL on-field referees are never electing to review footage of incidents themselves.
That is just a PL directive on the use of VAR. Theit philosphy was using it in a way that least impacted the flow and feel of the game and thought touchline monitors was too much. I am not sure they are wrong about that having been to games where they have been used, but clearly a big rethink is in order.
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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I hope u r kidding !!!
Somehow I think it would be 'good' to have Atkinson next week. He knows he fucked up and the focus is on him after the Firmino Goal. Pundits like Gray and Kamara were talking about his decision.

So I think in doubt his decisions would go pro Liverpool next week.
 

Prolix

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That is just a PL directive on the use of VAR. Theit philosphy was using it in a way that least impacted the flow and feel of the game and thought touchline monitors was too much. I am not sure they are wrong about that having been to games where they have been used, but clearly a big rethink is in order.
Sorry, just to clarify: is this not a route that PL refs have available to them? Or they have been directed by the league to avoid it (almost entirely) to avoid further disruption?

If it's the latter imo I wish that the on-field referees would instead be encouraged to elect to view footage directly early after an incident. I.e., if anything is picked up by the VAR crew, the on-field referees would quickly go view it themselves. Something emotively feels "better" to me about that; the on-field referees know what they saw (or at least what they thought they saw) and a subsequent re-view might encourage a more robust re-evaluation (rather than VAR being systematically reluctant to "overrule" the on-field referee). That way it is much more explicit where the decision-making process is taking place.

Maybe I don't appreciate the psychology of it, but I would rather a referee goes "I made a mistake with my initial call" and corrects it rather than a third party going "we're not going to call you out for your mistake". No one expects referees to be perfect in real-time. The whole reason there was clamor for VAR was the audience telling referees "we know you need help". So there should be no shame in admitting and correcting an error, imo.
 
Last edited:

Limiescouse

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Sorry, just to clarify: is this not a route that PL refs have available to them? Or they have been directed by the league to avoid it (almost entirely) to avoid further disruption?
They are not available.
 



Quicksand

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Maybe define what you think you mean by "reviewed", because it appears you are drawing a distinction that does not exist. The entire game is conducted with VAR oversight. We only see evidence of the VAR review when ref has already stopped the game and will not restart it until VAR has come to a conclusion.
All the game is viewed. We are informed of a review on the scoreboard etc.
The three penalty calls aside from the Mane one were not subject to a review.
 

jredp

Let's talk about 6 baby!
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a couple of admissions about the game. Watching it 'live', I was raging at the players forgetting that they are human. 'Lost me rag', and went to bed, but still couldn't sleep, and kept (faith) hoping that they would equalise. So I got up and went into the next room, turned on this site's page and was happy to see that we had just equalized, and then on waiting for the final whistle, up pops an update that we got a winner. very very thrilled that we won and could fall asleep, albeit for only an hour or so.
think Bobby's goal should have stood, but incompetent referees are the standard we have to deal with.
 



Mascot88

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Sorry, just to clarify: is this not a route that PL refs have available to them? Or they have been directed by the league to avoid it (almost entirely) to avoid further disruption?
I think it’s more likely to avoid the embarrassment of seeing the likes of Jon Moss and Lee Mason having to waddle from one touchline to the other, with a face as red as a baboon’s arse.
 

jaffod

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VAR is not confusing, it's the fucking incompetent refs behind who are.
a couple of admissions about the game. Watching it 'live', I was raging at the players forgetting that they are human. 'Lost me rag', and went to bed, but still couldn't sleep, and kept (faith) hoping that they would equalise. So I got up and went into the next room, turned on this site's page and was happy to see that we had just equalized, and then on waiting for the final whistle, up pops an update that we got a winner. very very thrilled that we won and could fall asleep, albeit for only an hour or so.
think Bobby's goal should have stood, but incompetent referees are the standard we have to deal with.
I see the 'incompetent referee' line is still being widely used in relation to Atkinson. It is compounded by his performance at Goodison yesterday.

Just to be clear there was nothing incompetent about what that fucking cheat did on Saturday, nor at Old Trafford a few weeks ago or at Anfield last season against Leicester when he basically stole 2 points from us and cost us the title. He knows exactly what he's doing.

There was a thread last season about us being fucked over by referees and many people were arguing there was no actual proof of it happening. Well I think Atkinson has exposed himself for what he is where this football club is concerned and it saddens me that only Chris fucking Kamara has had the balls to call him out on it.