POST MATCH: Watford 3-3 Liverpool (PL 12/8/17 12.30pm)

Discussion in 'Match Days' started by Mascot88, Aug 12, 2017.

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Man of the match

Poll closed Saturday at 2:10 PM.
  1. Mignolet

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  2. Alexander-Arnold [off 90+1']

    12 vote(s)
    7.8%
  3. Matip

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Lovren

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  5. Moreno

    5 vote(s)
    3.2%
  6. Henderson

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Can

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. Wijnaldum

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  9. Mane [GOAL]

    48 vote(s)
    31.2%
  10. Firmino [GOAL off 80']

    43 vote(s)
    27.9%
  11. Salah [GOAL off 85']

    37 vote(s)
    24.0%
  12. Origi [on 80']

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Milner [on 85']

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Gomez [on 90+1']

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. BostonMick

    BostonMick TIA New Signing no more! Valued Member

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    .....oh no..is Gomez the new Luc..?...I cant bring myself to type it....
     
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  2. SirBillShankly

    SirBillShankly Joe and Holly's dad

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    Still totally and utterly pissed off with this game, that late equaliser has totally ruined my weekend.

    Sick and tired of the way we keep on conceding cheap and easily preventable goals, no new defenders bar Robertson, it's bizarre really, we've had all summer to strengthen and yet we field the same players making the same mistakes. Damn annoying is what it is. However 2 of Watford's goals should have been ruled offside.

    Not impressed with our midfield. We are already missing Lallana, not sure the best way to replace him, we missed his infectious energy terribly, I don't think Can and Hendo play well together, I thought Can was at times horrendous, anyone remember the way he gave the ball away early in the second half? It was comical and quite frankly we need new players more desperately than I realised. I would stick Grujic in ahead of Can going forward.
     
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  3. Lowton_Red

    Lowton_Red Well-Known Member

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    This has been my pet mantra for what seems like forever.
    Our inability to defend set pieces isn't a new phenomenon, it's been the same for years. We blame individuals - Skittles, Lovren etc but perhaps it's the system that's at fault. Rodgers couldn't fix it, and now it's apparent that Klopp can't fix it either.
    Will bringing in VVD fix it? I doubt it as he can't be everywhere at once.

    We need a proper defensive coach.

    And, perhaps, if we can learn to defend corners better, perhaps we might learn of to become better at scoring from them as well.
     
  4. BostonMick

    BostonMick TIA New Signing no more! Valued Member

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    Who is the team's defensive coach?
     
  5. Lowton_Red

    Lowton_Red Well-Known Member

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    We don't have a specialist defensive coach.
     
  6. BostonMick

    BostonMick TIA New Signing no more! Valued Member

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    Do other PL teams have this coaching staff? (Sorry for the questions, genuinely don't know and want to get this solved as much as any of us)
     
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  7. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    You dont need a specialist to put players on the posts at corners.
     
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  8. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Or to get players to try and head the ball with their eyes open.
     
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  9. Lowton_Red

    Lowton_Red Well-Known Member

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    In general you won't find someone with the title "defensive coach" but many teams have someone on the staff with specialist defensive experience who focuses on defence, and defensive drills.
     
  10. BostonMick

    BostonMick TIA New Signing no more! Valued Member

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    The stats that were shown yesterday of goals conceded by PL teams fro set pieces (with us as the worst) was pretty depressing. Anyone know how the best defensive teams run/coach their defenses? Do they have one or more specialist defensive coaches?
    This was a problem in the BR era (and the 2 eras before that) - WTF has to change?
    Then - when we fix that we should be set (cause TAA looks like a damn good solution for us in taking corners - if only we could head them in!)
     
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  11. Lowton_Red

    Lowton_Red Well-Known Member

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    True, but that's not all that was wrong with the first goal.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Valued Member

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    Our tallest defender is marking thin air and Firmino who is closest is just looking, Mignolet can't get rid of Amrabat, hopeless set piece defending.
     
  13. Wilkored08

    Wilkored08 Active Member

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    Yeah...I knew he was a manc!!!
     
  14. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    That's true.
    You couldn't get a fuckin Rizzla under the feet of Matip, awful defending.
     
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  15. LaurazRed

    LaurazRed The hopeful one

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    Once again our defending was non existent, and we didn't control the midfield well at all. Yes it was very annoying to let in that very late equaliser, but it always felt like it was coming. I am going to get extremely nervous if we can't we defend any better that that. I really want to be positive but with that defensive display and seemingly no central defenders coming in I'm worried.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  16. Red Armada

    Red Armada TIA Regular

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    You'd think that but then again looking at our players you do see a lot of "nice" guys. Lallana, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Matip and the others don't exactly give the impression of the strong confident assertive type. You can see it in their performances as well. When things are good, they're flying. When they're not, they pull a disappearing act more often than not. Can seems to be the exception but he hasn't got the ability to match his character. In any case, there's a dearth of leadership in the team, that much is clear. I'd say that it's not that improbable that they were overly affected by what transpired before the game.

    The notion that "it evens itself out over the course of the season" is one of the biggest fallacies out there. There is no logic to support such a claim and past years have demonstrated as much. I don't recall evening itself out in 08/09 when Webb gifted the scum a penalty against Tottenham when they were struggling with us breathing down their neck.

    The only times that I can recall a team scoring from a corner without any of the defenders even twitching were also against us. That is just indescribable bad reaction. The entire team went to sleep.
     
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  17. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    Watford have 4 players with free runs. Our goalkeeper is being blocked and hasn't any protection. It's the worst defending I have ever seen at a set piece and I can assure you I saw some real shit when my son was playing. I nave never seen anything like this watching adults play football.
    We just seem to give up when the opposition get a little physical (above all Gini and Matip who for me were our worst players yesterday. Then picking out the worst in a pile of shit really is a waste of time.
     
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  18. Barnestormer

    Barnestormer Left wing.

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    I would love to see some stats on defending corners - we must be at the bottom of the league for it; neither is this fucking hard at all - you compete and ensure you make the first ball. Whereas many times we are I see just flat footed stood watching. Ball watching as my ex-manager used to say - we do it a lot.
     
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  19. jaffod

    jaffod Well-Known Member

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    This seems to be a common opinion after yesterday's showing and one I'm not going to disagree with you on. The 3 CM's were awful yesterday to varying degrees and ( in the same way jettisoning Skrtel was going to solve all our defensive woes) people might now realise that getting shut of Lucas isn't going to make our midfield any better. Lucas wasn't the problem, the problem is our CM's are neither one thing or another - they aren't creative and they don't protect the defence. At least Lucas was competent at doing what he was asked to do which was sit back and break up play (while still creating as many goalscoring chances as the other mids towards the end of last season I might add).
    People like to have a whipping boy but it looks like shipping out the most recent pair hasn't improved us one bit.
     
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  20. FGred

    FGred Well-Known Member

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    What really enraged me about our defending was that Watford set up their players in our box the same way on all set pieces and the most crucial position was the player blocking our goal keeper stopping him from jumping for the ball and 4 o 5 of our players watching him do it like statues, the refs never do anything about it but we can protect our goalkeeper by putting somebody to shove that git out of the way, once the ball drops down its panic stations and their players pile in and then it becomes a game of ping pong.
     
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  21. FGred

    FGred Well-Known Member

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    Hence why we were and still are desperate to get Keita
     
  22. FGred

    FGred Well-Known Member

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    That's why we should sort out his contract extension ASAP and do a RM
    By putting a 700M clause on him to deter the likes of Barca and PSG
     
  23. Commando

    Commando Active Member

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    All this talk of having or getting a defensive coach is puzzling me. Wasn't't Jurgen a centre back in his playing days? Surely he must know how to defend corners. After all they were the bread and butter of his playing career.
     
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  24. FGred

    FGred Well-Known Member

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    Watch the Watford player shove Mig and puts him off from saving it from going in this happened every set piece and Silva must have had a lesson from Pulis and Allardyce as it was their favourite set up
     
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  25. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    TBF,Mignolet is in the middle of fucking nowhere,clownish.
     
  26. RedLar

    RedLar Well-Known Member

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    My point was that Chelsea could walk off the field knowing they gave it all with 9 men. Liverpool walked off looking at each other thinking here we go again.
     
  27. Lowton_Red

    Lowton_Red Well-Known Member

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    Just because someone played in a certain position doesn't necessarily make them experts at coaching that position.

    Looking at Watford's first goal, can you honestly say that you can detect any evidence of effective coaching or of a developed defensive system?
     
  28. Lowton_Red

    Lowton_Red Well-Known Member

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    Putting a player directly in front of the goalie is a common tactic (and one we should adopt). Amrabat clearly impedes Migs. Given that it is so common, why wasn't anyone instructed to impede Amrabat / protect Migs?
     
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  29. RedLar

    RedLar Well-Known Member

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    The big issue is two of watford cart horses would have beaten either of our central defenders with the right cross. Not even a challenge. You can discuss zonal till you are blue in the face, but zonal does not mean no challenge is necessary. Zonal should mean you are designated an area that, if the ball comes to it, you fucking do your all In your power to get on the end of it. There are 4 Liverpool players on their heals not even arsed to compete. That's the issue here. Free header from 4 yards. Just look at Matip. Awful!

    Havent read it in all the comments, but it was an excellent ball into a dangerous area. You won't see many better. Still, at the lowest level, defending corners, particularly those at the near post hast to become bread and butter and, for us, it's major pants soiling.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  30. Barnestormer

    Barnestormer Left wing.

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    Many of our problems stem from having a centre or wide-right attacking midfielder, sat holding the midfield.