Post Match: Watford v Liverpool (EPL 29/2/20 5.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 11 17.2%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 9 14.1%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 17 26.6%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Wijnaldum [off 60’]

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [off 65’]

    Votes: 6 9.4%
  • Salah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Firmino [off 79’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 5 7.8%
  • Lallana [on 60’]

    Votes: 28 43.8%
  • Origi [on 65’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Minamino [on 79’]

    Votes: 9 14.1%

  • Total voters
    64
  • Poll closed .

MinniMo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
191
This weekend so far has been 'The Rout of the Bottoms' - I'll expand on that before I get thrown out!

Take the bottom 5 teams, Norwich, Watford, West Ham, Bournemouth and Aston Villa.

So far Norwich beat Leicester, Watford beat us, West Ham beat Southampton, and Bournemouth drew with Chelsea.

3 of the bottom teams got points from 3 of the top 4 teams.

Next up we have City v Aston Villa - - - please, please, please may the trend continue to bring happy smiles to our faces. It would be worth that loss to see that cup go to Villa - wouldn't it?
 

Alright Now

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
11,613
I agree with all of that, and I would add that our midfield lacked any creativity. I would also say that Lovren should keep his eyes open when he attempts to head the ball.

However, I think michael oliver ensured that the scoreline flattered watford. In my opinion they should have been down to 10 men on 44 minutes; deeney shouldn't have been on to score the third.



But what was oliver's verdict? If not a red, a yellow, at least? What about a free kick?
No, not even a foul. Play on and a friendly little chat with deeney afterwards.

And so much for VAR correcting clear and obvious errors / serious foul play.
Everything seems to have gone awry since the Harry Maguire “kick out” review.
 

Dane

NEXT!
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
6,736
Just don't get this way of thinking mate.

Play some young lads against Bournemouth because they're not very good. Neither were Watford. We're talking about another PL team here. Norwich will probably go down despite beating City and Leicester. So say we play a few kids and draw, next up is Everton away who will be up for that like a pisshead for a curry on Saturday night. So all of a sudden we need to win 4 of 8 instead of 4 of 11, assuming Abu Dhabi keep winning.
Might all seem like massive over-reaction/pessimism but I'm not arsed. Always remember Geoff Boycott commentating on the cricket and saying he looks at the score and if it's 100-1 he thinks of it as being 100-3 because you can lose 2 wickets in 2 minutes. Make no mistake, Bournemouth on Saturday is the biggest game of the season so far.

I'm leaning towards the opposite tbh.
Go full strength and beat Chelsea, then play some young lads against Bournemouth if necessary.

Ok, the league is not won, but as good as.
Let's go full throttle for the treble ;)
I'm not talking about throwing in a whole team of under 13's here, but 2 or 3 of the young lads who handed a full strength Everton their arses on a plate.
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
4,515
There is a saying, if it aint broke dont fix it, but the truth is weve known its needed a few fixes and tweaks for a while now.

The problem is it didnt break so we kept going.

Now it has broken a bit we can get back to the garage and do a bit of maintenance.

Its better it happened now than in an important match.
The reaction is key now. The players need to realise that teams will not roll over on lose, they need to be accurate, motivated and most of all prepared to work.

The league is not a given. They need to earn it, in every game until it is won.
 

wibseyred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
824
I'm not talking about throwing in a whole team of under 13's here, but 2 or 3 of the young lads who handed a full strength Everton their arses on a plate.
As good as the Everton result was people forget it should have been at least 3 nil at halftime.
 

Wilkored08

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,201
I agree with all of that, and I would add that our midfield lacked any creativity. I would also say that Lovren should keep his eyes open when he attempts to head the ball.

However, I think michael oliver ensured that the scoreline flattered watford. In my opinion they should have been down to 10 men on 41 minutes [edit not 44]; deeney shouldn't have been on to score the third.



But what was oliver's verdict? If not a red, a yellow, at least? What about a free kick?
No, not even a foul. Play on and a friendly little chat with deeney afterwards.

And so much for VAR correcting clear and obvious errors / serious foul play.
Watched the 1st half and noticed 3/4 fouls that needed cards... Be it red or yellow...also hanging onto mo like a vice....and still no cards....alas the ref's appointment at spec savers is next week...let's see what Dermot says on 'ref watch' on Monday morning...
 

Red Armada

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
3,052
I agree with all of that, and I would add that our midfield lacked any creativity. I would also say that Lovren should keep his eyes open when he attempts to head the ball.

However, I think michael oliver ensured that the scoreline flattered watford. In my opinion they should have been down to 10 men on 41 minutes [edit not 44]; deeney shouldn't have been on to score the third.



But what was oliver's verdict? If not a red, a yellow, at least? What about a free kick?
No, not even a foul. Play on and a friendly little chat with deeney afterwards.

And so much for VAR correcting clear and obvious errors / serious foul play.
Textbook red. If TAA had planted his foot, Deeney would have snapped his leg in two. Really poor from Oliver.
 
Last edited:

MViper

TIA New Signing
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
130
Bit shit performance all around with lovely brainfarts. No biggie, we'll rip Cherries a new one. I'm sure of it.

I'm only gutted because of the milestones.. soooo close to break couple of records but couldn't do it..

Fair play to Watford, nice game for them. Wish them all the best in their relegation fight.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,953
Imo best thing that could be happened. Been poor for a month. Deserved today's hidding.well played Watford.
Thre's been a few posts saying this. I'm not so sure because there's a lot to put right there. All our little problems exposed in one match. It really was Watford doing everything right and us doing everything wrong.
1st we were pedestrian, they were quick.
We weren't physical enough they were. This meant they won every ball other than thoses that were >70% in our favor. None of our players were prepared to take the knock to control the ball and keep it on the ground (we prefered to flip the ball about in the air creating 50-50 situations that they won) they controlled the ball (the 1st thing they wanted to do was put the ball on the ground (if they couldn't they just got rid of it and went again).
Once they had the ball on the ground they upped the pace and we couldn't keep up (our press was almost none existant).
We played long balls into a yard of space, they passed it up the pitch quickly and cleanly.
They made us look stupid and they looked clued up.

On some finer points, when we start stuggling, like we did, there is a tendance for Firmino and Salah to come deep looking for the ball. When this happened 2 Watford players followed them. This should allow us to get a ball to Trent, AOC, Gini ... etc who are higher up yet we pass it to Salah (who can not pass) or Firmino (who had the 1st touch of an elephant yesterday) and they could get 3 players on them immediately. Tactically this was suicide as when we lost the ball our midfield was missing.
It's been said our midfield was poor (and that is true) however we bypassed it with our tactics as well and not for the 1st time.

An aspect of our play that I find worrying is how rarely we try to go up the middle. Even if you put the ball out wide it can still come back to the middle however we just send it straight back.

So we need to show we are up for it now and it won't be easy it's going to take a lot of character.
 
Last edited:

Notasuperfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
339
Interesting appraisal;


Also interesting the fact that of the 5 times we've lost with VvD playing Lovren was his partner in 4 of them.

As has been pointed out, getting close to Deeney was never the smart thing, it's a needless macho bullshit thing, Gomez and Matip would have been smarter and shadowed Deeney making sure he was cut off and couldn't do fuck all. Lovren got caught into a "who has the biggest bollocks" competition by trying to match Deeney man to man on the one thing he is actually good at.

In December neutral source Squawka said;

Troy Deeney – 5 – Battled so well against the Liverpool defenders but clearly ran out of steam in the second-half.

Joe Gomez – 7 – Handled himself really well against a physical Watford attack. Showed immense closing speed as well.

Trent got 4, VvD got 6, Milner got 5, Henderson 4 so a bad team performance at the back.

Last night they had;

Troy Deeney – 9 – What an opportunity in first-half stoppage time. Deeny, never one to give up on a lost cause, found himself with possession after a rare Alisson spillage but the Hornets captain was unable to divert the loose ball into the net. But he made amends freeing Sarr to double Watford’s lead before incredibly adding a third.

Dejan Lovren – 4 – Starting his first league game since early December, this was an opportunity for the Croatian centre-back to impress and cement a regular starting berth alongside Van Dijk, was shaky this evening and seemed to be shorne of confidence which led to unnecessary errors.

Trent got 5, VvD got 6 again, Robertson 6, Fabinho 6 so despite the last game being a 2 nil win and this a 3 nil loss both times we did bad as a side but the players around that CB scored higher last night than they did in December. The main difference being Deeney 9 to 5 and Gomez a 7 Lovren a 4.

I'm not saying Lovren is the cause of all our woes and we clearly didn't impress against Watford in either game getting away with an unconvincing win last time. But Lovren isn't the answer to whatever the question is and did himself and us absolutely no favours whatsoever. Gomez played it right with less than half Dejans experience and helped nullify the guy.
So I saw this post from ARD on the Dejan Lovren thread. I have no idea where that twitter fella got his stats from but ARD did provide a decent source from Squawka. He also made very good points about Lovren and Gomez.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,953
Sorry mate but I disagree, I think we need to look at the last 18 months / 2 years not just the last few weeks.
Our players have been through a lot over the last 2 seasons and some of them have barely had a pre season In between.
A few of them must be feeling it.
After yesterday's performance I'm sure they are shagged however they have been winning so often that if they enjoy playing football they should have been feeling fine before. Get back into winning ways and they'll be as fresh as daiseys again. ;):love:
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,051
Reading one or two comments after yesterday’s defeat I think we’ve all been a tadge spoilt, before Jurgen arrived our best premier league points haul was 86 under Rafa back when we had the likes of Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Carragher etc etc. who were all in their mid 20’s prime at the time.
As I said that was our previous BEST, if you look at our average points total in the premier league era then it’s probably somewhere in the 60 - 75 point range.
Last season, out of nowhere, we accrued 98 points. 12 points better than our previous best. That is a massive improvement.
Let’s not be blasé about this 98 is a phenomenal total, Not only did we do that we also got to our second consecutive CL final as well with the help of arguably the greatest ever comeback in European football history.
To back last seasons heroics up with what we have done this season is just simply ridiculous, when your previous best was 86 points, to then back a 98 point season up with possibly a 100 point plus season is just off the charts.
Its not as if our squad is packed to the gun whales with £100m superstars, Jurgen has put together a team that is far greater than the sum of its individual parts.
What Jurgen has done over the last 2 seasons is nothing short of a footballing miracle, before he arrived we had only qualified for the CL once in 7 years, we’d be dancing in the streets if we finished 4th a few years ago.
The 2 biggest prizes in club football are the premier league title and the champions league, we won the CL last May/June and Jurgen is on the verge of handing us the other one in a few weeks time.
When someone is flat out performing miracles let’s not be greedy, let’s be grateful. Losses are part of football, let’s not get caught up in the moment let’s have the ability to take a step back and look at the big picture and appreciate what’s going on.
People often say that the 2 heaviest shirts to wear in English football are the Liverpool and United jerseys, what people don’t often recognise though is the pressure of managing this club and the pressure of bringing success to this club, Kenny had to step down because of club related health issues (understandably so) Graeme Souness ended up on an operating table fighting for his life when he was still in his 30’s as did Gerard Houllier when he was in his mid 50’s and Roy Evans ended up in tears in the press conference when he stood down.
Just because Jurgen is making it look easy doesn’t mean that it is. The pressure on him is phenomenal yet he is flat up producing footballing miracles. Let’s not let one defeat or even a few defeats cloud that fact. Yes he picked Lovren instead of Matip, seriously, who gives a fvck? Step back and look what’s going on, he’s on the verge of winning us our first league title in 30 years, to do so he’s had to go toe to toe and beat the richest club in the entire 132 year history of the professional game. Do not underestimate the power of big money, wether it‘s sport, business, politics or whatever big money is extremely difficult to beat, big money is relentless, Jurgen has beaten it.
Records have been tumbling pretty much on a weekly basis under Jurgen, he is creating history in a club that’s built on it.
As I said let’s not be greedy, let’s be grateful.
This. 100%.

Yesterday was shit, and those says do happen. There are a few issues need addressing but I think that will be done.
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
2,121
Just watched the highlights again. What is Lovren doing for first goal. This is why I don’t like him playing. He’s more interested in wrestling than the ball. He gets it in his head he needs to do something special. Just defend. That’s it.
 

South American Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
157
This defeat will surely spice up the tittle race a little. I personally like that.

Remember who we are. We never do things the easy way. It is not a matter of mentality, it is in our DNA.

Ps: Ffs, Lovren. I always stood by you, but time to start a jiu-jitsu academy co-owned with Sergio Ramos and quit football might have come.
 

mattyhurst

TIA Regular
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
14,499
The fact is we could afford defeats like this because of the lead we have. It is still 19 points but the emphasis is now to win and bounce back. The best teams bounce back. As I said this time next week and things could look a lot more positive, let's see eh.

Someone said they would take 10 points from the next 5 games (before we played Westham) and was shot down on a thread.

But they were right if it included 3 of the 5 wins we needed at that time then so be it. The number doesn't get larger it's 4 wins. Let's go on another 18 wins in a row.

As for dumping the FA cup, it only makes sense if we struggled on 3 to 4 day rests, oddly we look better on them.
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,979
The fact is we could afford defeats like this because of the lead we have. It is still 19 points but the emphasis is now to win and bounce back. The best teams bounce back. As I said this time next week and things could look a lot more positive, let's see eh.

Someone said they would take 10 points from the next 5 games (before we played Westham) and was shot down on a thread.

But they were right if it included 3 of the 5 wins we needed at that time then so be it. The number doesn't get larger it's 4 wins. Let's go on another 18 wins in a row.

As for dumping the FA cup, it only makes sense if we struggled on 3 to 4 day rests, oddly we look better on them.
Think that was probably me, although I said I'd take 11 points. But no, we were going to win the fucking lot. There's a lot of arrogance among our fan base, I remember last year around Christmas there was one bloke banging on about the conversation he was having with his daughter about which badges they'd get on their replica shirts when the league was won. Don't think he's been on much since.
 

rupzzz

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
7,140
Thought Minamino looked lively yest. Moves between the lines looking for the pass.

Also it was pretty obvious that Robbo doesn't trust Origi when hes on the left wing. Tends to cut it. He was visibly irate with Origi against Athletico, and it looked like it carried on.