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Post Match: Watford v Liverpool (EPL 29/2/20 5.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 11 17.2%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 9 14.1%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 3 4.7%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 17 26.6%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Wijnaldum [off 60’]

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [off 65’]

    Votes: 6 9.4%
  • Salah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Firmino [off 79’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 5 7.8%
  • Lallana [on 60’]

    Votes: 28 43.8%
  • Origi [on 65’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Minamino [on 79’]

    Votes: 9 14.1%

  • Total voters
    64
  • Poll closed .

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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First goal. Degsy what the fuck were you doing dancing in the six with Deeney? VvD quit on the play expecting it to run out the byeline

Mane completely disappeared in this match. Zero service. Ox needs to practice his crosses, they were shit.

Second goal, calamity on sideline as we (Fab) quit on the play. Fell asleep and got countered. Dejan out of position as he should have been the deep man behind Virg who didn't read the ball from Deeney.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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More than anything, feel sad for the players who had an "off day" and have lost the streak
 

OzzyKop

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It took me a day or two to get my emotion in check to post my opinion. I have been saying it for the last few weeks and especially in the west ham Post match thread we are falling off in performance and teams are upping their performance against us and we sort off getting lucky with results but today was judgement day.

Full credit to Watford and pearson their lineup was exactly how you go about hurting our weakness they have done their homework and fully deserved to win. From the first minute i knew watford was there to play.

Surely this has to be the last time Lovern plays for us in a starting role, people blaming VVD either did not watch the game or just do not understand the positioning set up for our high line defense, every goal we conceded when he played he seem to lack the positioning or skill level to deal with the threat. People expecting VVD to do a 2 CB role.

First goal Lovern got sucked in by deeney not to follow the ball and clear it (Like Gomez would do many many times), The second goal played behind VVD why is lovern pushing up with his lack of pace to recover (Gomez would've been in a position to sprint back and cut Sarr off) Lovern did the same thing against Napoli goal in Anfield it is a very bad positioning and defending in my book. The third Goal TAA was in La La land i don't know what he was day dreaming about.

We missed Hendo Big time we seem lost without him to tell you the truth everyone else seem asleep and can not be bothered apart from Robbo and Lallana when he came on. Gini looked very tired and exhausted and the rest of the team were napping and it was contagious.

Front three were big meh, how many time has Salah gave the ball away even short passes. They must work hard with him in training to improve his pass completion rate this is very frustrating to watch. They must improve his all round game to contribute fully to this team, waiting in a shooting position all the time to score goals might be glorious for a little while but with a decent coach and competent disciplined opposing squad it is not hard to neutralise him and take him out of the game.

In a way i am glad this spanking happened now hopefully it will wake us up to push through the rest of the season and respond big especially against Atl Madrid at anfield.

Some of us has been vocal about a refresh in the summer and even buying high profile players to maintain the edge over the other teams, Many have argued our squad is good enough with stats and the CL trimuph last season and winning PL this season, Make no mistake some players are getting sloppy and disinterested we need the refresh to keep all players on their toes. I do not Value any player Over this club if you don't put 100% for no reason then you need to start competing for your role and take a good hard look at yourself.


End of Rant/input.
 

sportbilly1966

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Watched the 1st half and noticed 3/4 fouls that needed cards... Be it red or yellow...also hanging onto mo like a vice....and still no cards....alas the ref's appointment at spec savers is next week...let's see what Dermot says on 'ref watch' on Monday morning...
They also should have had a penalty when Lovren gave Deeney a big hug
 

sportbilly1966

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Thre's been a few posts saying this. I'm not so sure because there's a lot to put right there. All our little problems exposed in one match. It really was Watford doing everything right and us doing everything wrong.
1st we were pedestrian, they were quick.
We weren't physical enough they were. This meant they won every ball other than thoses that were >70% in our favor. None of our players were prepared to take the knock to control the ball and keep it on the ground (we prefered to flip the ball about in the air creating 50-50 situations that they won) they controlled the ball (the 1st thing they wanted to do was put the ball on the ground (if they couldn't they just got rid of it and went again).
Once they had the ball on the ground they upped the pace and we couldn't keep up (our press was almost none existant).
We played long balls into a yard of space, they passed it up the pitch quickly and cleanly.
They made us look stupid and they looked clued up.

On some finer points, when we start stuggling, like we did, there is a tendance for Firmino and Salah to come deep looking for the ball. When this happened 2 Watford players followed them. This should allow us to get a ball to Trent, AOC, Gini ... etc who are higher up yet we pass it to Salah (who can not pass) or Firmino (who had the 1st touch of an elephant yesterday) and they could get 3 players on them immediately. Tactically this was suicide as when we lost the ball our midfield was missing.
It's been said our midfield was poor (and that is true) however we bypassed it with our tactics as well and not for the 1st time.

An aspect of our play that I find worrying is how rarely we try to go up the middle. Even if you put the ball out wide it can still come back to the middle however we just send it straight back.

So we need to show we are up for it now and it won't be easy it's going to take a lot of character.
With regards to Bobby he thrives on the edge of the box with players making runs off him as he receives the ball, however at the moment he is dropping deeper and on the occasions, rare that they are, that he does receive the ball on the edge of the box the runners are non existant.

Totally agree with playing more passes centrally this then draws them in creating more space out wide.

Another issue is our midfielders, with the exception of Lallana take too long and too many touches to turn therefore slowingbour momentum.

I also would like to see Chirivella given an opportunity as he is excellent in possession and he is also progressive and likes quick one twos.

I feel the midfield needs a shake up creative wise as the forwards are feeding off scraps.
 

LFC-Orlando

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After careful deliberation I figured out our plan. We had to lose so we win the league @ the Emptyhad.
 

Craig_Johnston

I'm very down under, but my wife disagrees
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Messages
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Don’t get the nonchalance on here. We have been playing poorly since the break, but have been lucky to scrape wins. This diabolical performance, combined with our failure in Madrid, is going to affect confidence. The next couple of games are crucial.
 

Red Armada

TIA Regular
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Messages
3,192
Don’t get the nonchalance on here. We have been playing poorly since the break, but have been lucky to scrape wins. This diabolical performance, combined with our failure in Madrid, is going to affect confidence. The next couple of games are crucial.

The team won 18 straight and went unbeaten for 44 games in the thoughest league in the world. They've earned a bit of faith.
 

RodM

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Messages
992
Anyone know when the pre-match thread for the Chelsea cup game is going up? We lost on Saturday. I'm totally over it.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
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Reflective moment.....

There is a reason why a team going the season unbeaten is a rare occurrence. Because its nigh on impossible to do. City at their record breaking best couldnt, Utd in their best seasons couldn't, Liverpool in the pomp and best couldn't.......

Going unbeaten isnt winning anything.
We should still win the league, if we get back into the correct mindset next weekend. But its not done till its done, and talk of "where we will win it" should be shelved. It a bit arrogant in light of the pasting at the weekend.

There is always room to improve. If we add quality players in the summer to augment the squad we have thats brilliant. But we dont need major surgery. The theory that we miss Coutinho is lazy and nonsense. We are better without him. And he isnt taking the world by storm at the moment. There is also an amount of nonsense surrounding Salah, and wishing him out the door. We need to keep him. Keita frustrates me though. I had greater hopes for him.

Now is an opportunity for Klopp to close ranks, and see this as what it is, a minor pothole in a long road. Dust down......play a strong 11 against Chelsea, beat Bournemouth and get the mentality right for Athletico......

We should be a bit annoyed/upset about Saturday.......and a bit relieved. The fans of other teams that haven't raised their heads in over a year are back out in force celebrating Liverpool losing a game. Sad deluded fuckers.
But the pressure is off. Time to finish the job now.
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
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I feel for Bournemoth. Theyll get the backlash.
Chelsea will be different as I dont think many of team that started will start. Id play Lovren, Fabinho, Ox from Sat.
 

Iluvatar

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On reflection it looks like a team going through the motions, i.e. they were that far ahead before the winter break they have returned with a complacency unseen before with this group of players.

We’ve lost most 2nd balls, our pressing is disjointed and ineffective, we are over complicating, yet failing to complete on simple passing, our entire gameplan seems to be a long ball, we have no intensity. You could argue our front 3 have never played with each other before - It’s that disjointed.

A challenge for Klopp, first time this group of players have played with arrogance instead of confidence.
 

Retro Helix

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Billy Biskix

TIA Youth Team
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Yes, definitely a wake up call. We had to lose at some point. No problem there. I just didn't expect to see a performance this bad again under JK. It really was abject in every single area. No redeeming features whatsoever and it could have been a bigger pasting.

I don't know about complacency/arrogance. We win games the hard way most times. Very rarely battering teams but getting the points through sheer force of will. Ultimately that's going to take it's toll if not physically then mentally. We are everyone's cup final now and teams are raising their game way above their usual level. Watford looked a class above us on Saturday. Physically stronger. Quicker. Better organised and sharper.

We are now officially in our annual dip. Similar to last season with the draws against Leicester and West Ham and the scrappy 4-3 against Palace. Not quite at it. Bit of disruption to the team selection. Some key players off form. Last season it was the game against Bournemouth that got us back on track and they are the ideal opponents for us normally so it's a good time for us to be playing them again next Saturday.
 

liver1

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This result actually has me feeling a bit more optimistic for the Atletico game. Our recent performances have been dominating the ball but nothing more than playing in 3rd gear.

I felt like we were sleepwalking into the return game, simply assuming that due to our run of results and playing at Anfield, we would grind a performance out on the day and somehow wed make it through. That complacency would have given us our comeuppance IMO.

Now I feel like we will be much more ready for that game. We have to go out to play and win, not just grind.
 

SirBillShankly

We live in a fallen world.
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I'd play my Ma in defence ahead of Lovren.

He just unsettles the whole of our defence. I'm sure his presence was the reason behind Virg and Trent's poor performances. The amount of times he just whacked the ball as high as he could into the air was just embarrassing.

Why the hell Matip didn't play was puzzling. Still cannot work that one out.
 
Last edited:

Kopstar

★★★★★★
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Messages
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Wow, there are no words. Hope Watford sort this cunt out.
twitter.com/i/web/status/1234014483284099072

Mod edit: on request of some users, the image from this link has been removed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

WooltonRed

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It’s disgusting! What exactly is this moron’s point? I don’t understand it. There’s some suggestion on social media that he’s an Arsenal fan posing as a Watford supporter. He’s now being hunted down.
 

jaffod

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3,291
It’s disgusting! What exactly is this moron’s point? I don’t understand it. There’s some suggestion on social media that he’s an Arsenal fan posing as a Watford supporter. He’s now being hunted down.
Things haven't ended well for morons like him in the past. I can think of a few who have found themselves unemployed and their homes being targetted.
Hopefully this cunt will get the same treatment.
 

Flobs

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With regards to Bobby he thrives on the edge of the box with players making runs off him as he receives the ball, however at the moment he is dropping deeper and on the occasions, rare that they are, that he does receive the ball on the edge of the box the runners are non existant.

Totally agree with playing more passes centrally this then draws them in creating more space out wide.

Another issue is our midfielders, with the exception of Lallana take too long and too many touches to turn therefore slowingbour momentum.

I also would like to see Chirivella given an opportunity as he is excellent in possession and he is also progressive and likes quick one twos.

I feel the midfield needs a shake up creative wise as the forwards are feeding off scraps.
Bobby was terrible against Watford his 1st touch was way off. Often when things aren't working out our passes become too soft and I believe this makes them more difficult to control particularly on the turn (as well as being more easily intercepted).

As of the midfield in the Watford game they just didn't recieve the ball however there's some interesting points here.
Gini, since Hendo's out has been trying to play higher yet he's our second ball gatherer and Fabinho needs that. It can also be said that if playing AOC or Kieta Gini doesn't need to play higher. He is best picking up second balls and recycling particularly as he doesn't seem to ever accelerate the game.
Fabinho accelerates the game but his orientation of it is often poor also at the moment he is slightly off the pace and missing tackles he normally would make with his eyes closed. He was imo too agressive as well getting caught far too high up the pitch looking to press when our other players weren't there to help.
AOC turns well and accelerates the game however he went missing because our 'defenders couldn't find him mainly due to, like Gini, being too high up, he does orientate the game fairly well but against Watford was just looking to push forward.
Chirivella would give us the orientation we lacked but is he fast enough to help the defense how it needed to be. I'd still prefer to get Fabinho up to speed.

As we were bypassing the midfield I can not see how creativity of the midfield would change anything. More important have them doing more of a defensive shift so we don't go down 3-0.
This defense of our forwards doesn't cut it for me. They receive the ball often after having called for it up front it's for them to make the difference. Man up and admit Firmino was very poor, Salah gets choked out and Mané wasn't his usual unpredictable self. We get them into positions to score but they didn't often even take a shot.

This was a big off day however West Ham nearly was as well where we saw similar stuff. I don't think VVD should be captain, we often see him become impatient and hoof the ball up to Salah or Mané yet this impatience doesn't instill the drive that Henderson does it just makes us look like desperate hoof ball merchants. I wonder if Gini was made captain in these instances if it would cause him to take that extra bit of responsibility that he seems to shirk?
Anyway just a glitch, wake up call. We can be assured that our coaching team and the players are doing all they can to remedy this.
 

Abdel

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645
despite our exceptional results, this team relies far too much in my opinion on intensity, pressing, second balls and crossing,the elephant in the room is the lack of technicality in our game, making the difference with combinations, short passes etc ... Watford was not the only match where we missed out, we can add Aston Villa, Shefield Utd, Atletico, Naples, Man Utd and so on, only the result was different
 

Commando

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They also should have had a penalty when Lovren gave Deeney a big hug
Yeah, that was the only challenge in the whole game that was a foul and nothing was given. I'm being sarcastic by the way.

Poor Mo had that all the first half....looked like he was carrying a parachute.... But no it was a defender.
It's the same every game as well. The pair doing comms on the game on Saturday were going on about the Degsy/Deeney incident for quite a while, yet brushed aside Deeney's assault on Trent and Hughes' foul on Gini as if they were nothing.
 

Wilkored08

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Yeah, that was the only challenge in the whole game that was a foul and nothing was given. I'm being sarcastic by the way.



It's the same every game as well. The pair doing comms on the game on Saturday were going on about the Degsy/Deeney incident for quite a while, yet brushed aside Deeney's assault on Trent and Hughes' foul on Gini as if they were nothing.
Even if the ref doesn't see...he's got 2 officials to help him....and for dangerous play, we have our friend VAR....but ref's don't seem interested....as if to say "oh it's only Liverpool". If it were chitty...there would be crowds of players around the ref....
 

sportbilly1966

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Yeah, that was the only challenge in the whole game that was a foul and nothing was given. I'm being sarcastic by the way.



It's the same every game as well. The pair doing comms on the game on Saturday were going on about the Degsy/Deeney incident for quite a while, yet brushed aside Deeney's assault on Trent and Hughes' foul on Gini as if they were nothing.
I know, I was commenting as the original post only mentioned Oliver's failings against us, however, I still dont understand how Deeney didn't receive a red card
 

sportbilly1966

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Bobby was terrible against Watford his 1st touch was way off. Often when things aren't working out our passes become too soft and I believe this makes them more difficult to control particularly on the turn (as well as being more easily intercepted).

As of the midfield in the Watford game they just didn't recieve the ball however there's some interesting points here.
Gini, since Hendo's out has been trying to play higher yet he's our second ball gatherer and Fabinho needs that. It can also be said that if playing AOC or Kieta Gini doesn't need to play higher. He is best picking up second balls and recycling particularly as he doesn't seem to ever accelerate the game.
Fabinho accelerates the game but his orientation of it is often poor also at the moment he is slightly off the pace and missing tackles he normally would make with his eyes closed. He was imo too agressive as well getting caught far too high up the pitch looking to press when our other players weren't there to help.
AOC turns well and accelerates the game however he went missing because our 'defenders couldn't find him mainly due to, like Gini, being too high up, he does orientate the game fairly well but against Watford was just looking to push forward.
Chirivella would give us the orientation we lacked but is he fast enough to help the defense how it needed to be. I'd still prefer to get Fabinho up to speed.

As we were bypassing the midfield I can not see how creativity of the midfield would change anything. More important have them doing more of a defensive shift so we don't go down 3-0.
This defense of our forwards doesn't cut it for me. They receive the ball often after having called for it up front it's for them to make the difference. Man up and admit Firmino was very poor, Salah gets choked out and Mané wasn't his usual unpredictable self. We get them into positions to score but they didn't often even take a shot.

This was a big off day however West Ham nearly was as well where we saw similar stuff. I don't think VVD should be captain, we often see him become impatient and hoof the ball up to Salah or Mané yet this impatience doesn't instill the drive that Henderson does it just makes us look like desperate hoof ball merchants. I wonder if Gini was made captain in these instances if it would cause him to take that extra bit of responsibility that he seems to shirk?
Anyway just a glitch, wake up call. We can be assured that our coaching team and the players are doing all they can to remedy this.
I agree Bobby did have a bad game as did Mane and Salah, however they didn't receive much quality, in this game and the only way they could have scored is by a moment of magic.

Scoring from Trent's and Robbo's crossing has served us well, but we are too reliant on this and need to be able to play through them as well as go wide, which you agree with and this is where Bobby normally comes alive. Unfortunately our midfielders, with the exception of Ox, who runs with the ball, offer little penetration with vertical passes thats why I like Chirivella who sees the game well and dictates the game by mostly playing shorter passes to feet. Yes there are reservations about his defensive side but he has controlled all the games he has played offensively and hasn't looked lacking defensively and was my motm against Everton
 

sportbilly1966

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Poor Mo had that all the first half....looked like he was carrying a parachute.... But no it was a defender.
Totally agree, but your post was blinkered, I would still have been livid if a penalty had been given as we have had similar blatant ones almost every match not given for fouls on VVD not given, but it was a foul by Lovren