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Post Match: West Brom 1 - 1 Liverpool

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Never Say Never

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Zoran said:
That was typical Liverpool, unable to make the most of these opportunities.

This was the type of game we shoud have won before half time, WBA posed no threat and the only negative for us was a lack of a little more precision with the final ball, a bit of end product. Boring atmosphere and they were slow on the counter as well, you have to put that to bed with at least another goal and it's game over, au revoir.

We give them a chance to survive for more than an hour being just 1 down, not clinical enough in attack, going for the wonderful. When they change things a bit and find that goal we panic and force things through individuality. It leads to nowhere and no we're not getting into top 4 only "if Liverpool can keep Sturridge and Suarez fit".

While playing so deep and not taking our chance we literally hand them a way back into it, I know we have to sacrifice a little bit so maybe with the 3 offensive players (Sturridge with the help of Luis did a good defensive job against Everton, he didn't need to track back against Stones, while on the other side Sterling does a great up and down job in the last weeks) Rodgers wants everyone to get back, there is a lack of balance and especially against WBA I don't know why we keep inviting those crosses. Victor f*cking Anichebe, if we're afraid to push that back line a little bit against him, Gera, Brunt, and Berahino the only one offering a bit of pace... then god help us. Toure's mistake was really a bad school error but it was waiting to happen when you see our defence so deep and almost tied together.

When we need that winning goal we end up having 2 separated sides on the pitch, the back 4, those 2-3 up there and no patience in the middle. Big sides stick together, play simple 1-2 touch football with intensity, create pressure against these sides. It happened against Villa as well. When we needed to dominate, we struggled to even get the ball from them. You get that tired, deja-vu feeling that we're never gonna score like that.

We have no quality in our depth and we have to kill these games much earlier.
I've felt that way a lot of times this season. It's weird to feel frustrated coming away from a win, but I have more times than not. We're just really blessed to have such a rampant strike duo. Especially Suarez. I'm curious as to how many times we've played like this only for him to bail us out.
 

zagueiro

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Johnny T. said:
I had to come back to this. We dropped points against West Brom because Lucas was missing. Give me a fucking break. Posts in a simar vein against Lucas were at one point considered trolling or baiting. A series of stats to support an argument that our least adventurous player, Lucas would have been more effective than a player, Gerrard with an eye for goal and a probing pass. Even Grk Stav, blind to reality as he was couldn't support that nonsense. We dropped points because Toure fucked up, and our forward four, Sterljng aside were below their usual high standard. Lucas wouldn't have stopped the goal, nor would he have actually added to the attack.

How about putting your quantitative data away for a while and examine the qualitative impact of Gerrard, how about not using every thread to worship at the Divine Church of Lucas.

To think we, those who questioned the boys credentials used to be accused of winding things up......
While Rodgers has been in charge we've had 2 horror shows of back passes that have cost us goals and subsequently points; from Skrtel against Man City last season, and against WBA on Sunday. Lucas didn't play either of these games. Do you think that's co-incidence? Can you not see that Lucas is the best we have at showing for the ball from the CB's and GK? With him in the team the CB's FB's and keeper are comfortable in the knowledge that he will always be an out ball. Of course, I don't expect you to agree as you do not have a positive word to say about Lucas, but you should at least think about it.
 

redbj

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I don't think your correct zags, I thin your clutching at straws.

I can agree Lucas shows for the ball, I could even concede a relative amount of comfort from other players if they know lucas is there, but the skrtel and toure back passes had nothing to do with anyone else on the park, it is a coincidence.

It does feel like you are now taking the piss a fair bit and that's a shame, originally you debated your stance very well and I believe sincerely.
 

Mascot88

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zagueiro said:
While Rodgers has been in charge we've had 2 horror shows of back passes that have cost us goals and subsequently points; from Skrtel against Man City last season, and against WBA on Sunday. Lucas didn't play either of these games. Do you think that's co-incidence? Can you not see that Lucas is the best we have at showing for the ball from the CB's and GK? With him in the team the CB's FB's and keeper are comfortable in the knowledge that he will always be an out ball. Of course, I don't expect you to agree as you do not have a positive word to say about Lucas, but you should at least think about it.
I've thought about it, Zag, and I think it's unwise to draw a conclusion from a sample set of 2.
 

redbj

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You could however argue we've been reasonably shit for five years....thats a good sample set....but that would be a wind up....
 

Urban Achiever

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zagueiro said:
While Rodgers has been in charge we've had 2 horror shows of back passes that have cost us goals and subsequently points; from Skrtel against Man City last season, and against WBA on Sunday. Lucas didn't play either of these games. Do you think that's co-incidence? Can you not see that Lucas is the best we have at showing for the ball from the CB's and GK? With him in the team the CB's FB's and keeper are comfortable in the knowledge that he will always be an out ball. Of course, I don't expect you to agree as you do not have a positive word to say about Lucas, but you should at least think about it.
If this is not a wind up it's one of the funniest examples of misused empirical evidence I have ever seen.
 

slufsar

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I dont even understand what Zaq is trying to achieve. I think you'll struggle to find a supporter who dont think Lucas is our best CDM

And anyway, Gerrard was where Lucas most likely would've been if he were playing that role.
 

Johnny T.

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zagueiro said:
While Rodgers has been in charge we've had 2 horror shows of back passes that have cost us goals and subsequently points; from Skrtel against Man City last season, and against WBA on Sunday. Lucas didn't play either of these games. Do you think that's co-incidence? Can you not see that Lucas is the best we have at showing for the ball from the CB's and GK? With him in the team the CB's FB's and keeper are comfortable in the knowledge that he will always be an out ball. Of course, I don't expect you to agree as you do not have a positive word to say about Lucas, but you should at least think about it.
Thought about it, and once again you are wrong. Blinded and wrong. But of course I don't expect you to have a negative word to say about Lucas, but if you think about it, really think about it his presence yesterday would have added zero to the result. Hence my answer to Cardiffpete which you quoted. Pete by way of answering a short question gives a thesis for an answer, you just stray into the ridiculous. Two back passes, both poor and if Lucas was present they wouldn't have happened?? Seriously??
 

OOTer

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I've calmed down a bit now. Shit happens. People make mistakes. It's been a while since we've made a slack pass like that. I had a bad feeling it would happen yesterday but thought it would be Stevie who did it. Shame the mistake cost us.

Stevie was boss tho. Taken him only a few games to look much more comfortable in that deep role. Sterling was also amazing for 60 mins.

Is it me or does every mistake we make lead to a chance? We just can't seem to recover to snuff out the mistake. Ok the big one yesterday was impossible unless mig would have saved it. But almost everytime we fuck up we look vulnerable. Maybe its just my twitchy ring though.

West Brom had a part to play in that game too. They got their tactics as good as they could have. Even after we scored they were patient. Fair play to them.

Positives are. No more injuries. Stevie was awesome deep. We are still 4th. Any more?
 

Quagmire81

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Urban Achiever said:
If this is not a wind up it's one of the funniest examples of misused empirical evidence I have ever seen.
It's up there with the Birthday picture argument :D
 

Redragbull

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OOTer said:
Is it me or does every mistake we make lead to a chance? We just can't seem to recover to snuff out the mistake. Ok the big one yesterday was impossible unless mig would have saved it. But almost everytime we fuck up we look vulnerable. Maybe its just my twitchy ring though.
According to Sky Sports News this morning, LIverpool have been responsible for 29 errors this season that have created goals or chances for our opponents, which is the highest in the Premier League. Can't honestly say that I can remember that many.
 

WellRedKev

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That dose Neil on the anfield wrap says he thought West Brom were impressive.....couldn't disagree more. We played terribly and they played worse. They were never gonna score apart from a horror show by Toure.

A bit of credit for keeping Suarez and Sturridge quiet but that was through default. Midfield was very poor for us. For me Joe Allen comes in for arsenal match, probably for Coutinho.

Redragbull said:
According to Sky Sports News this morning, LIverpool have been responsible for 29 errors this season that have created goals or chances for our opponents, which is the highest in the Premier League. Can't honestly say that I can remember that many.
That seems very high but I do remember at the start of the season I had heart in mouth a few times, particularly Mignolets ball work but that has settled. Gerrard has given away the ball several times on the edge of the box which would account for 5/6 but 29 seems very high.
 

Quagmire81

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Redragbull said:
According to Sky Sports News this morning, LIverpool have been responsible for 29 errors this season that have created goals or chances for our opponents, which is the highest in the Premier League. Can't honestly say that I can remember that many.
I like to know on what criteria they determine what is an error and isn't... Does bad defending count
 

spizfromoz

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WellRedKev said:
That dose Neil on the anfield wrap says he thought West Brom were impressive.....couldn't disagree more. We played terribly and they played worse. They were never gonna score apart from a horror show by Toure.
Apart from THAT defensive mistake, I thought they pressed us all game. That led to a lack of fluidity in our passing and movement. We rushed. But I blame the pitch, divots everywhere.
 

WellRedKev

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spizfromoz said:
Apart from THAT defensive mistake, I thought they pressed us all game. That led to a lack of fluidity in our passing and movement. We rushed. But I blame the pitch, divots everywhere.
They get a few points for that alright but overall they were poor IMO. Going forward they were rotten, constant fouling was their best form of defence too. The fouling on sterling was like a father holding back a young lad having a kick about in a park. such was the difference in talent.

We were just very very average and couldn't get the win.
 
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we did not win a single ball in the midfield, mainly because there did not seem to be anybody there to challenge for it, the result? liverpool for ninety minutes absorbing their constant advances
lets face it liverpool did not turn up to the game!
i know exactly which team has turned up within the first few minutes for any of our games, the ones who rush to close down as soon as the opposition get the ball, and the one that gives them time to control and our lads back up waiting for the advance!
although what an absolute dildo toure was to gift them that ball........ mignolet put him under immediate pressure playing out from the back, the baggies just done what liverpool should be doing...... giving the opposition no fucking rest!!
i hope our "other" team turn up this week!
 

Quagmire81

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We see this drop of form in the team everytime they played an extra game a week, as we did when we played Everton midweek. Rodgers fielded pretty much the same team up to the midweek game, and then in the game against WBA.

We seen this a few times this season, whenever we have had a midweek game without changes in the team. I hope Rdgers figure out the need for rest for the players whenever possible, like in the cup games. We seen the core of our team play everygame possible, this WILL cause us to drop performance level now and then, this was a case of this I reckon.
 

cardiffpete

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Johnny T. said:
I had to come back to this. We dropped points against West Brom because Lucas was missing. Give me a fucking break. Posts in a simar vein against Lucas were at one point considered trolling or baiting. A series of stats to support an argument that our least adventurous player, Lucas would have been more effective than a player, Gerrard with an eye for goal and a probing pass. Even Grk Stav, blind to reality as he was couldn't support that nonsense. We dropped points because Toure fucked up, and our forward four, Sterljng aside were below their usual high standard. Lucas wouldn't have stopped the goal, nor would he have actually added to the attack.

How about putting your quantitative data away for a while and examine the qualitative impact of Gerrard, how about not using every thread to worship at the Divine Church of Lucas.

To think we, those who questioned the boys credentials used to be accused of winding things up......
I just made 10~12 quickfire points to the Arsenal fan on TIA (ahead of our game vs Arsenal) ...and he basically agreed on everything I said too, bar Kolo. Guess he must be semi-blind too ;-) Just the single point referenced Lucas "out" as our biggest loss btw ...so just why you want to spotlight that is beyond me ;-)

BTW, he agreed here as well, as it's a basic no-brainer point. Just a massive loss and everyone knows it (bar a few stubborn ones from within).

I remember reading a thread, somewhere (I'm fairly certain it wasn't on TIA though), shortly after Joe Allen arrived at the club and when was doing great in his first few games. The title went something like "Our metronome is our multiplier", or in any case it was something wierd like that. The topic starter went on to sing Allen's praises, quite justifiably, and described him as a "multiplier". It was probably the first time I'd ever seen a player described as a "multiplier", (and probably the last time too ;-) ) ...so it just stuck in memory, for that reason alone. What was meant by "multiplier" was clear though aka the very rare type of player, whose mere presence on the pitch lifts all those around him to greater heights, in some way or other. Some of these types of players are of course very well-known, world famous and true legends of the game aka the likes of Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Keegan, Platini, Falcao, Zidane, Roy Keane, Redondo and many others etc. Cruyff (for example) hauled a very mediocre Barca side from their mediocrity to almost single-handed begin a real assault on Real's throne and laid the foundations to making them a force in Europe. Also Cruyff, who was a lifelong Ajacied (aka Ajax player and fan), at a stage when he was already a veteran and when he was really angry against the Ajax board who had really let him down very badly, he suddenly decided to defect to Feyenoord (their bitter rivals). He then turned a very mediocre Feyenoord into instant title winners, in an act of ultimate revenge. That was amazing stuff.

Many are these types of players are however largely forgotten though, as their roles were of the more unsung variety and they just simply didn't make the highlight reels, except for the odd glimpse here-and-there. You'd really have to be at the match to see what they did. One clear example here, speaking personally, would be the great Clodoaldo from the 1970 Brazilian World Cup winning squad. I've watched all of Brazil's 1970 games a few times now (down the years and only on video, but all full games) ...and Clodoaldo (their #5 aka DM) was very probably the best player of the tournament, such was his class and for the way that he made all those around him lift their games to another level. A really magnificent player was Clodoaldo ...or as you might remember him - Clodo, who? Makalele is maybe another example, although he did eventually got lots of (belated) praise. I'm sure there were many others too, for very many clubs, down the years. The kind of player you'd miss when he wasn't there, or as Rafa put it (quite well) "People don't understand how good he really is".

Another example, this time LFC-related, would be a game I attended at Anfield (with a few mates) on March the 10th 1993 against QPR. I'd had a Kop season ticket for over a decade, but shortly after Hillsborough had moved abroad for (first) a year and then 6 months and then another full year - punctuated without the odd, sporadic visit home and I thus (thankfully) avoided most of the terrible Souness era. Anyways, I was back on Merseyside for about 6+ weeks in early March 1993, just in time (as fate would have it) for the home game against ManU. It was a disastrous game, with LFC looking very old, jaded ,leggy and very uninspired versus a rampant ManU. Simply unrecognizable from the LFC I had known (and loved watching) for many years and this was very probably the single defining game when ManU (and Ferguson) just pulled away from us ...for definite. 2 decades later and I think we've only ever finished above that lot the once since. Bah!

Anyways, back to our match against QPR at Anfield. To set the background for that game, my mates had almost given up the ghost and they really didn't want to go to the match. "We're shite right now" etc. The footie was horrible (in the darkest days of Souness in charge) and LFC were hovering dangerously, just above the relegation zone. We had just the one win from our last 14 games and for all the world looked like a relegation outfit. By the way, that team still included some wonderful players (on paper anyway) i.e. Barnes, Rush, Nicol, Molby, Rob Jones, McManaman, Redknapp, Hutchinson, Mark Wright, Burrows, Walters, Michael Thomas (yes him!), Mike Marsh (now assistant manager #2 under BR) and David James. But the reality was something completly different ...as we were a pale shadow (of our former selves) on the pitch. Think the Hodgson era, only maybe magnified ten times worse.

We did go though (6 of us) and we bought tickets (to sit together) from the touts. We got to Anfield about 15 minutes before the match and we were still half-expecting to get fleeced by the touts ...but they were almost begging us to buy tickets (at face-value). OK, you could almost always pick up tickets at face-value those days from the touts, if you were skint, by hanging around until about 15~20 minutes after kick-off (for most matches anyways) ...but to be offered them at that price long before kick-off was almost unheard of. Once in the ground, it became clear as to why though, as Anfield was half-empty. That was an eerie feeling and almost soul-destroying to experience. The once greatest team in the land literally on it's knees and everyone fearing the worst i.e. relegation looming. We caught the tail-end of the warming-up and we spotted a player (aka our number 5) on the pitch. Could it be? Was he even still at the club? Had he been injured for so long, that nobody even thought he was still around? It was Ronnie Whelan! Hmm. A bit of a bonus (for me), as he'd always been my favourite player at LFC. I thought at the time, that at least (and no matter how badly LFC played) at least I'd get to see Whelan play one more time for us. I never (in my wildest dreams) expected what would follow.

The actual game though offered more. Much more! After just a few seconds of the game, Whelan pounced on a ball and cushion-played Rushie in on goal with an inch-perfect ball, which was narrowly missed. Within 2~3 minutes thereafter, Whelan had launched Barnes twice and Mcmananman twice too with more inch-perfect stuff. The whole team just turned the clock back 5 years (or so) ...from then onwards. QPR were a very good side back then, but LFC destroyed them on the day, with Whelan giving a CM masterclass of precision-passing and tempo-changing stuff of the very highest level. I've never witnessed a CM display from anyone (before or since that was at that level) in person. It was almost other-worldly. We won 1-0, but we also missed 2 penalties and hit the woodwork (maybe 3~4 times) as well and maybe created (about) 30 other chances. The years rolled back in one game, as LFC clicked in a way that was once routine but had long since gone. It was almost 1987~88 again, such was the footie that we played that day. It was all down to one man as well aka Ronnie Whelan! I have never witnessed a finer game of football in person (from anybody and at any level) than Whelan delivered that day for us from CM. Souness stated post-match "It's been a very long time since I have seen a central midfielder play a game of football like that, and it is all the more amazing when you consider the length of time that he has been out". It almost defied every logic in football, just how good Whelan played in that game. But it didn't really defy logic end-of-day ...as Whelan actually was that good! In the end (11 games later) we finished in 5th, with some old-school nice play from then on. I caught some of these games and Whelan was always the man who knitted everything together, though he was very injury-prone by then ...and was sold a year later (prematurely). You just can't buy class though, and Whelan was (basically) always total class for us.

As Bob Paisley put in (in Clyde Tyldesley's book on Paisley and his views on the 1985~86 team) re: Whelan:

"I have never believed that Ronnie gets anything like the credit that he deserves. We all showered him with compliments when he first arrived on the scene, and put him on a pedestal from which it was easy to fall. But his record in the face of some troublesome injury problems is an outstanding one." ... "Ronnie is a two footed player. A lot of the football greats have been largely dependent on one foot. It's a rare gift to be able to dribble the ball with two feet, or play it comfortably whichever side it comes to you. Ronnie is a very sweet striker of a ball. It really pings off his foot like a well timed shot in golf or tennis. No extra power is applied, but the ball zips away because it has been struck perfectly ... He prefers it when it arrives with a bit of pace on it too." ... "He's a players' player. His biggest fans are his team mates because they know they can rely on him to do what is asked of him simply, quickly and unselfishly." ... "He sets high standards for himself. He doesn't boast. He never moans. He doesn't make excuses about a pelvic injury that once threatened his career, he just gets on with it." ... "When those special matches come round and when there are medals to be won and when the pundits are asking whether the match winner will be Rushy or Kenny or Brucie ...then I look past all of them towards Ronnie Whelan".

For me, Ronnie Whelan would be one of the best 2~3 players to have ever played for LFC. Way above Souness (for example) ...and very close to Kenny and co, for his impact at our club. Gerrard has been great and fantastic for us ...but Whelan was basically great in almost every single game he played for LFC. I just can't remember a single bad game from him (for about 3~4 years aka mid-to-late eighties) and very many were simply outstanding. Just a real and proper quality player in almost every game. There are almost no highlights to back that up, as almost no full matches televised back then ...but Whelan was just astoundingly good for us, for a very long time too, and he really kicked our team on no-end. If you remember the 1988 Cup Final, when our greatest-ever team lost to Wimbledon, Whelan had just gotten back from injury and he begged Kenny to play in the Cup Final, but it wasn't to be. Spackman played instead, with Molby on the subs bench. Whelan recalled how he had a long argument with Kenny about that "Kenny doesn’t mind if you argue with him. But (once he's decided something) you can argue until the cows come home and you’ll never win.” Suffice it to say that Spackman played, we lost and Molby came on and we still lost the bloody game. If Whelan had played, we'd surely have won that Final. Just bizarre logic, from Kenny. Kenny did learn though as Spackman was out the door almost immediatedly after that loss, with Whelan straight back-in

Talk about Xabi Alonso all you like, and he was simply great in one season aka 08~09 (plus his initial season too) in what that thread of a "multiplier" means to a team ...but Whelan level? Nah! One season does not compare to many on-the-bounce ...and Whelan did Alonso stuff (for fun) and he did it year-after-year for us. Alonso did actually reach a superb level, but mostly he did it post-LFC, for Real. Masch? Also not even close to Whelan for us. Miles away from that level. Roy Keane better than Whelan? Nope. Keane benefitted from the Sky era hughly, where his role was suddenly bigged-up and emphasised a whole lot, as-in (finally) recognition for some very unsung work from (deeper) CM being given ... but (even) Keane wasn't at the same level as Whelan (for us).

Lucas (however) is that little bit different. His impact is very noticeable (if you choose to watch it closely), but it's also been really clouded by our abysmally bad squads in the past 3~4 years. Yet, our performances when he plays and also when he misses out are just night-and-day. That's pretty much the definition of a "multiplier" ...if a "multiplier" is actually defined (which it isn't) but I/we know what it means aka a player who is a massive loss to the team (if out) and/or a massive plus (if in).

In our current run-in (with real hopes of 4th and a CL spot), we simply must win (most of) our away games (as they are our easiest route to success). Before WBA, we had 8 remaining away fixtures with 6 in the "easier" category (though all away) and 2 aka Utd and Soton the harder stuff. That now becomes 5 winnable and 2 tougher, all away. At home, we have 4 really tough games (Arsenal, City, Spurs and Chelsea), 2 medium-tough ones aka Newcastle and Swansea and one "easier" aka Sunderland. That's a pretty tough run-in. It maybe looks easyish, but in reality it's just very hard to pull off ...as in away games are always potential banana skins, while we have no real home game "bankers" to fall-back on.

Can we win these? Can we gain enough points from our remaining 14 games? All things being equal, then I'd say yes. But that's on paper! The reality is very different ...and it will (surely) be a massive ask for us.

Lucas is also no Ronnie Whelan (and/or no Roy Keane either!!) ... but yet, he is (surely) a very vital catalyst for our team atm. If I look at our last 11 EPL AWAY games (when Lucas hasn't started), then we have won just the once! One single time!! When Lucas has started (in our last 11 AWAY games with him on-board), then we have won 6 times!! That sequence with 6 wins was much tougher than the sequence without him as well (on paper anyway).

Coincidence? Maybe, but that's very tough to believe ...if you see our 38 game sequence when he was out with (first) ACL and then a torn thigh-muscle. We gained 43 points from 38 games then. Our last 38 with him playing? 71 points. That's a huge difference.
 

lfc.eddie

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On your last paragraph Pete, you're discounting a lot of other factors such as Suarez contribution, the purchase of Sturridge and Coutinho at the time when defenders don't know much about the young Brazilian. We did wi. The league cup without Lucas no? He is the only defensive midfielder we have today, missing him surely is noticeable. But to make him out of the likes of Alonso and Whelan is a tad too much. I think the multiplier you speak of could also be used for players like Suarez, or even Agger whom without him we hardly kept a clean sheet. No?
 

lovepool

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Saying Lucas by taking a sample of 11 games proves nothing. When Gerrard was at his best and carrying us there was a stat thst shiwed we won more games when he was out of the team and something similar occurred with Suarez but as with the Lucas example itusing a small number of games.

Pete saying we got more points after Lucas returned from injury may be true but after he returned we had added Sturridge and Coutinho and it was the addition of these players that saw our form improve
 

cardiffpete

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lfc.eddie said:
On your last paragraph Pete, you're discounting a lot of other factors such as Suarez contribution, the purchase of Sturridge and Coutinho at the time when defenders don't know much about the young Brazilian. We did wi. The league cup without Lucas no? He is the only defensive midfielder we have today, missing him surely is noticeable. But to make him out of the likes of Alonso and Whelan is a tad too much. I think the multiplier you speak of could also be used for players like Suarez, or even Agger whom without him we hardly kept a clean sheet. No?
The (away) results sequence include many of the above. Hendo might also be a "multiplier" (for us), though only somewhat - aka only if fielded in his 'proper" role., which is not his current CM-duo role. BTW, Alonso was pretty good (for us) ...but basically well-below aka a level (or two) below Whelan for us over his full seasons. Anyone who thinks that Alonso was great for us (from 2005~8) is mistaken. He wasn't.

Suarez, Gerrrad or Agger a "multiplier"? I don't see any evidence of that (at all). Gerrard is still a very good player (by himself), but he's no Roy Keane qua leadership alone. Suarez is a force of nature, but he certainly doesn't up the team collective to new heights either. Agger is basically gone in the summer, I'd feel, though also a very good player ...but not one who fulfills the criteria cq role of making everyone around him better.

Lucas is probably the one single player we have currently, who can up our game (collectively) to a higher level. Just watch the Oldham Cup game or the Villa cameo. It's very clear then. OK, he's also no Whelan either (aka also a level below) ...but (for sure) the closest we have atm for actual game impact. Us playing with him (or without) shows a massive difference in our level of (general) play. I hope we survive the next 2~3 games fairly well (who knows?) ...but our (less celebrated) Brazilian is just vital for us atm ...the sooner-the-better that he returns.
 

lovepool

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Quagmire81 said:
I don't even... :scratch:
It's the cult of Lucas, when he plays bad it is the fault of those around him but if his teammates play well it's because of Lucas the multiplier! !
 

Johnny T.

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Pete, don't patronise me with your Clodo who bullshit. I remember Clodoaldo playing for Brazil. Decent player he was but hardly central to the success of that great team.

Ronnie Whelan won trophies with Liverpool. He was a consummate footballer, mercurial. Lucas isn't fit to be mentioned in his company. Your avalanche of prose to educate us is nice but unnecessary, trust me. Your views on Lucas are misplaced and naive, your tone almost condescending. Pattern appearing.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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So the question needs to be asked.

Lucas was on the pitch this weekend, correct?

Was our play that bad so that VietMoment won't upload it? Haven't seen the whole thing yet, front to back. Was working and streaming onto my phone so distracted.
 

Johnny T.

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Semmy said:
So the question needs to be asked.

Lucas was on the pitch this weekend, correct?
.
Incorrect, as you already know. The question was drawn by a comment on how he, Lucas would have made a difference. Hence the tangential nature of the discussion.
 

Johnny T.

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@ Cardiffpete....
Xabi Alonso, Liverpool to Real Madrid, CL winner.

Lucas Levia, ? Transfer enquiries??? Won what...

And you dare to compare. More effective than Alonso? Did Pep call?? Nah, maybe that's the barometer to measure the multiplier by.

Or just call him the divider......
 
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