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Post Match West Ham 1 Liverpool 2

Semmy

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Hopefully Vietmoment has the game up because I missed it. Horribly hung over at work for a 12hr shift and no good streams due to our network restrictions
 

Anfield Iron

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Winning ugly is still winning. And at the business end of the season, that's all that matters. If we win out, no one will remember that Andy Carroll is an oafish, bipedal battering ram, or that Anthony Taylor had a horror show or that Fat Sam has all of the tactical subtlety of Vladimir Putin: they'll just call us champions.

Carry on boys. I believe you can win the league.

YNWA
 

Kontra

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3 points in the bag thank you very much.
The game was exactly as I (well all of us) expected. I didn't believe for one second that they will be relaxed because they are safe. I expected them to play their ugly, thug style imitation of rugby.

I was furious when Taylor robbed us, I was going ape shit in our pub, but when the boys came out for the second half I was really calm. And I mean really calm, I knew we would pull it of. And by the way, I am NEVER like that. I believe in this team. They trust each other, they play with each other and then there are the titanium nerves of Steven Gerrard. He is not letting this one slip away if he can help it. I guess I can say.... I believe!

Masterstroke by Brendan to bring Lucas on, and what a game the lad had. Chuffed for him.
Big 3 points this.
 

gr_sounder

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LeoT said:
Just watched Match Of The Day.

Firstly, what is all this nonesense about "the keeper got a touch on the ball so it's not a penalty" for the second penalty incident ?
Because a keeper gets a touch on the ball it does not give the keeper the right to grab the attacking player's trailing leg with both hands.

And finally, in the first penalty if the defender had not handled the ball then Suarez would been 1 v 1 with the keeper,
How is that not a red card for preventing a goal-scoring opportunity?
As a long time referee and even an evaluator in my past... I can tell you exactly what it is. Incorrect.
As a ref, one of the most infuriating things I can hear is "but I got the ball!"
Who cares... there is nothing in the Laws of the Game that says a penalty is nullified because you "got the ball".
If you get the ball, but still trip the player, it's still a foul.
If you get the ball while kicking the player, it is still a foul.
If you get the ball and but jump into a player, it's still a foul.

What "getting the ball" can (and often does) offset is "intent". If you get the ball, that USUALLY (not always) shows that you were intending to play the ball and not the other player, which CAN (again not always) offset the contact that is made because one can often ignore non-significant contact if the contact no longer affects the run of play. That said "getting the ball" does not give someone free reign to do whatever they want without a foul being called (well it shouldn't at least).

So many players and coaches don't actually know the Laws of the Game and most definitely don't know the official advice to referees that is given out yearly or that interpretations of rules change yearly.

As for not "Preventing a goal-scoring opportunity", this was probably the right call in giving a yellow and not a sending off. This rule was intended to stop players from stopping a shot or a ball bound for goal with their hands (other than the goalkeeper of course). Suarez was trying to get around the player so that he could shoot. Since the shot never occured, and probably aided by the other West Ham player coming into the vicinity and who "could" have prevented a shot (not likely but could have), the penalty kick and a yellow was probably the right call. My estimation of course, but it's possible others will see it differently.
 

artanisknarf

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It's clear why BR put Lucas on. It was not only because of the midfield control. You can bet your home that Lucas will start v. City and he needed match fitness. We need Toure subdued and Lucas is our best option there. Cannot risk Gerrard tackling him.
I hear some saying that Chelsea will play like west Ham. If we win our next two games we will be ahead of Chelsea. They will have to come out and play
And suffer the fate of Spurs and Arsenal at Anfield.
 

stip80

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Again, i really think the key point in deciding tht 2nd penalty is legit is that the ball, even after adrian touched it, was still on flano's path toward shooting the goal. If adrian managed to palm it away out of flano's way, then he can argue that he got the ball. However, since the ball was still in front of Flano, He still have a good clear chance to score goal and adrian's follow through taking him down is a clear foul.

I dont think thats difficult argument to grasp, and surprised nobody made the case in the tv discussion afterward.
 

Joe90

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Ham really are crap. Awful style of play. Like a london stoke.

Yellow for adrian was absolutely correct. Should have been a second for dissent and if the ref had stones, half of the rest of West Ham.
 

RichLFC

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One thing I liked about this one in hindsight, the way the manager has seemed to have eliminated the hard done by/excuse/persecution complex problems that, yes, I think has been a problem over the last 20 years all round when it comes to these situations

In he he past after a bad decision like the west ham goal. Could have seen a dressing room discussion a bit like a forum half time thread, with lots of tantrums, ranting, raving and corruption insinuations and everybody hates us paranoia (I do think its an attitude that can rub off on the field) and not enough attention paid to the things we can control ourselves like performance levels, with a rubbish second half to follow where heads drop like a stone as a ready made excuse for not showing up has already emerged. Does seem Rodgers has a pretty cool head for these kinds of things

Would like however for technology to be more available to football like it is for other sports, though in rugby replaying every try, especially in rugby league, can be dreary but it has eliminated 90pc of mistakes from the outset. Miking up the officials would also be interesting but there is a lot more swearing in football, the TV companies won't tolerate it I expect. Think Gary Lineker was right though in that football is a bit too stubborn and old skool to embrace change in this regard, particularly with what is at stake these days which is far more than tennis, rugby, cricket etc

As for the game itself, west ham are the sort of side that can be outmanouvred by a better side which takes the refereeing out of the equation, Man U managed it to some extent as did arsenal earlier on in the season. But if you are a bit off your game and the big lugs start gaining a bit of belief it can get difficult, both for the opposition and referees and that makes a Carroll type situation like the first goal more likely to occur. Good thing is we ground it out regardless
 

sportbilly1966

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Just watched Match Of The Day.

Firstly, what is all this nonesense about "the keeper got a touch on the ball so it's not a penalty" for the second penalty incident ?
Because a keeper gets a touch on the ball it does not give the keeper the right to grab the attacking player's trailing leg with both hands.

And finally, in the first penalty if the defender had not handled the ball then Suarez would been 1 v 1 with the keeper,
How is that not a red card for preventing a goal-scoring opportunity?[/quote

If it was a shot on target, yes it could have been a red. However because he wasn't moving towards goal it wasn't a red card offence!
 

Kontra

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gr_sounder said:
As a long time referee and even an evaluator in my past... I can tell you exactly what it is. Incorrect.
As a ref, one of the most infuriating things I can hear is "but I got the ball!"
Who cares... there is nothing in the Laws of the Game that says a penalty is nullified because you "got the ball".
If you get the ball, but still trip the player, it's still a foul.
If you get the ball while kicking the player, it is still a foul.
If you get the ball and but jump into a player, it's still a foul.
And that makes absolute sense. The fact that the ball did brush of off Adian's little finger, does not give him the right to grab Flanagan and bring him to the ground. Touching the ball is not licence to sweep players of their feet. That would be total nonsense. "Intent" is thrown around a lot and that's what I've heard most of the refs talking about, making a decision in an instant - was there or was there not an intent to do whatever. Not an easy job mind.
 

RedSouthIndian

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Another edgy, nervy win. This title run is really taking a toll on my heart (and I am sure I am not the only one). BR (in the post match interview) was talking about a slow pitch which affected LFC's performance. But even otherwise, I thought we were a bit flat today, struggling to break their defence. Strurridge was shot over twice while even Suarez seemed less than precise. Sterling, to me, was the MOTM. What a time this young man is having.

It finally came down to StevieG to win us the game. First, the defense splitting pass to Suarez and then two class penalties. Skipper, Talisman, Nerveless Stevie. And it was only a few months ago that some of us were talking about his retirement.

I was not very surprised when Big Sam started complaining about the two controversial incidents - Demel's goal and Flanaggan penalty. But what he didn't seem to realise is that his side profited from one of them. I am sure had that goal not stood, we would have had a far easier run out in the second half.

So, 5 more to go. And the next is the really big one. Man Citeh!! But BR was right when he said we have been really good in all the big ones at Anfield.
 

LFC-Orlando

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What determination! We're are the top team psychologically too. Our players demand respect just like in the old days.
Congratulations lads and thank you for allowing us to dream.

I really don't know how I'll get through the game on Sunday
 

MarlboroMan

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Not the prettiest match we've played but we got the 3 points away against Fat Sam's side and that's what matters most now. We defended well though can't give the midfield too much credit there. The CBs were good, particularly Skrtel. He was awesome when most were worried he'd struggle against Carroll. Everyone one of our defenders made the odd mistake but were able to recover well and didn't do anything stupid like the West Ham defenders. Its like they were playing basketball out there! Their goal shouldn't have counted, clear foul by Carroll on Mignolet, who was pretty good btw. Our second pen was slightly debatable but considering the awful decision to give them the equalizing goal it was fair and understandable. Adrian did bring Flanagan down after he got a slight touch on the ball preventing John from getting it back with a clear path to goal. Fuck it, it wasn't debatable!

Gerrard's composure when taking pens are extraordinary! I'm confident he'll score every time he steps up. That said his work rate was below par in my point of view. He'd walk around not making himself available for the pass but rush to stop a cross. Maybe its planned that way so he won't burnt out in the later stages of the match. Its still frustrating to see him just walking around when we have a game to win. He's the pro though so he must know what he's doing. Some sublime passes too I mustn't forget.

Bring on City, can't bloody wait and its only Monday!
 

Kinny Riddle

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Keegans Perm said:
Gerrard said in his post match interview that West Ham didnt sprinkle the pitch deliberately, thus making it dry and harder for us to play with the ball on the deck. He also went on to say that theyre changing room was absolutely boiling too, and the team bus was made to park a mile away from the changing rooms. Disgusting if you ask me.
There you have it, the typical Bus Parking Team:

The Away Team has to park their bus far from the stadium, while the Home Team parks theirs right in front of goal.
 

geebo

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gr_sounder said:
As a long time referee and even an evaluator in my past... I can tell you exactly what it is. Incorrect.
As a ref, one of the most infuriating things I can hear is "but I got the ball!"
Who cares... there is nothing in the Laws of the Game that says a penalty is nullified because you "got the ball".
If you get the ball, but still trip the player, it's still a foul.
If you get the ball while kicking the player, it is still a foul.
If you get the ball and but jump into a player, it's still a foul.

What "getting the ball" can (and often does) offset is "intent". If you get the ball, that USUALLY (not always) shows that you were intending to play the ball and not the other player, which CAN (again not always) offset the contact that is made because one can often ignore non-significant contact if the contact no longer affects the run of play. That said "getting the ball" does not give someone free reign to do whatever they want without a foul being called (well it shouldn't at least).

So many players and coaches don't actually know the Laws of the Game and most definitely don't know the official advice to referees that is given out yearly or that interpretations of rules change yearly.

As for not "Preventing a goal-scoring opportunity", this was probably the right call in giving a yellow and not a sending off. This rule was intended to stop players from stopping a shot or a ball bound for goal with their hands (other than the goalkeeper of course). Suarez was trying to get around the player so that he could shoot. Since the shot never occured, and probably aided by the other West Ham player coming into the vicinity and who "could" have prevented a shot (not likely but could have), the penalty kick and a yellow was probably the right call. My estimation of course, but it's possible others will see it differently.
excellent read.

Maybe you should be our "resident ref" , Or our "go to" ref to clear up questionable decisions (or at least give your opinion).
 

sportbilly1966

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Great attitude today and excellent effort from all the players. Thought the 2 centrebacks were excellent as they fought and challenged for every ball and Carroll knew he'd been in a battle and Mingolet did very well as he on a couple of times was competing against several West Ham thugs and got a fist to the ball to clear the immediate danger.

Our 2 fullbacks struggled a little, especially 1st half bit with Flanno having issues with Diame, got caught being too tight and getting rolled. Johnson struggled against Downing on a couple of occasion as well. What both did very well was to support the CB's when the high balls went in either by picking up the 2nd ball or just challenging players.

Midfield in the 1st half didn't control possession to their normal standard and found it difficukt to break through the oppositions ranks, but still worked hard and battled to the best of their ability. Brendan's half time substitution had me baffled at the time but what a masterstroke! Big plaudits need to go to Lucas for helping us take control the game with lots of possession and we looked a lot more threatening in the the 2nd half. With Lucas on and reverting to the diamond i thought we pressed higher up the pitch and with a bit more aggression. Sterling was also outstanding in the 2nd half at the point of the diamond as the West Ham players just couldn't cope with his change of pace and is becoming a very intelligent player - our 22 carat diamond!

Up front usual tireless work from Suarez and the more the game went on the better he got, wish he wouldn't stop and appeal especially in the 2nd half when the ball inadvertently hit Armero's hand and he just stood there arms raised whilst Armero relieved any danger without any pressure. Sturridge needs to get back to working hard for the team, quite disappointing today for me.

Onto Stevie Gee unflappable! our captain fantastic and how much do i want us to win the Premier League so he can collect the winners medal and hold the trophy aloft ..... dreaming

Finally the Blessed Brendan, superb half time talk regarding the injustice of their goal, You can't change whats gone! Yet again another excellent tactical substitution as Lucas was a revelation and bringing on Kolo at the end was the perfect decision.

Fantastic result and great mental attitude from all, we are finally have a Liverpool Team to be proud of :)

I'll go to sleep tonight and DREAM
 

Walter Sobchak

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Semmy said:
Hopefully Vietmoment has the game up because I missed it. Horribly hung over at work for a 12hr shift and no good streams due to our network restrictions
All Vietmoments videos to be found in the videos thread. One link to MOTD, but in it there's links to all the other great stuff.
 

XV1989

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POST MATCH
Steven Gerrard (PEN) 44' 0 - 1
Guy Roland Demel 45+2' 1 - 1
--
Steven Gerrard (PEN) 71' 1 - 2

LIVERPOOL
22 ---- S. Mignolet
2 ---- G. Johnson
37 ---- M. Å krtel
17 ---- M. Sakho
38 ---- J. Flanagan
8 ---- S. Gerrard // GOAL! 44' // GOAL! 71'
14 ---- J. Henderson
10 ---- Philippe Coutinho 46' L. Leiva
31 ---- R. Sterling
7 ---- L. Suárez
15 ---- D. Sturridge 85' K. Touré
Coach: B. Rodgers


WEST HAM UNITED
13 ---- Adrián (YC) 70'
20 ---- G. Demel GOAL 45+2'
2 ---- W. Reid
8 ---- P. Armero (YC) 86'
5 ---- J. Tomkins (YC) 43'
23 ---- S. Downing
4 ---- K. Nolan 68' A. Nocerino
14 ---- M. Taylor 78' M. Jarvis
16 ---- M. Noble
21 ---- M. Diamé 84' C. Cole
9 ---- A. Carroll
Coach: S. Allardyce

Yellow card (YC)

LFC ---- WHU
59% possesion 41%

4 Corners 4

6 Shots on target 0

6 Shots wide 5

9 Fouls 8

0 Offsides 0
 

koptician

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lfc.eddie said:
Who says things don't even out? It's all even out with our penalty with that fucking dirty goal from Carroll's assist.
That wasn't evening out. We deserved that penalty. So Adrian, touched the ball, it was still in Flanno's path and he was going to get to it to square it to Sturridge. Adrian was out of the play. He grabbed Flanno's ankle and brought him down. Penalty.
 

lfc.eddie

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koptician said:
That wasn't evening out. We deserved that penalty. So Adrian, touched the ball, it was still in Flanno's path and he was going to get to it to square it to Sturridge. Adrian was out of the play. He grabbed Flanno's ankle and brought him down. Penalty.
Don't care how it was given, but it could go either way and Flanagan was on his way down. Technically the keeper got the ball and it could be seen as a fair challenge, much like how when you go in for a tackle, you took the man with you when your momentum carries you through the player. Could go either way, but it went our way. So I am glad it even itself out.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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koptician said:
That wasn't evening out. We deserved that penalty. So Adrian, touched the ball, it was still in Flanno's path and he was going to get to it to square it to Sturridge. Adrian was out of the play. He grabbed Flanno's ankle and brought him down. Penalty.
Exactly, not to mention that Carroll should have actually got a red card letter of the law. We'd have gone into second half 1-0 up against 10 men. No comparison to the second penalty most refs would give.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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lfc.eddie said:
Don't care how it was given, but it could go either way and Flanagan was on his way down. Technically the keeper got the ball and it could be seen as a fair challenge, much like how when you go in for a tackle, you took the man with you when your momentum carries you through the player. Could go either way, but it went our way. So I am glad it even itself out.
His momentum didn't take him into Flanagan and Flanagan wasn't already going down that was a Fat Sam lie! He pulled Flanagan back with both hands on Flanagans ankle because Flanagan and the ball had got past him despite the minimal touch he got.
 

lfc.eddie

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
His momentum didn't take him into Flanagan and Flanagan wasn't already going down that was a Fat Sam lie! He pulled Flanagan back with both hands on Flanagans ankle because Flanagan and the ball had got past him despite the minimal touch he got.
Ok you are right....
 

Redsatomz

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OhYaBeauty said:
I don't particularly like all the bile slung Andy Carroll's way in here. Sure, he fouled Mignolet but it was completely unintentional and certainly not assault. He accidentally fouled Mignolet, and the ref should have waved the goal off. We have the right to be angry at the ref, but the fault certainly doesn't lie with Carroll.
I certainly don't see it as unintentional. To me, it's clear as day it was intentional. He jumped up, with his hands fully stretched. Unless you are a keeper, you don't jump with your hands fully stretched.... it must mean that he saw that he can't reach the ball, so he raised his hand.
 

Redsatomz

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OhYaBeauty said:
Sturridge was rather poor on the day. Without having watched the game a second time I can't say for sure, but I'd reckon it was his lack of movement that really caused him to have so few scoring chances. On his one bit of good movement Hendo backheeled for him to volley, but other than that he was reduced to tame (or lame?) efforts from outside the box. Needs to do better.
I actually see that Sturridge was marked out of the game. In this game when he's the front man, and he come deep to get the ball (with his back behind the goal), there will be a West ham defender who will stick very close to him. He eventually have to just dribble the ball towards our own half before finding a player to pass to.

I think he was getting frustrated with the lack of space and it shows in his movement and decisions (shooting when there's space, instead of looking at a pass). To be fair to him, he still tries to make some passes to Suarez, but the packed defence make it very difficult.
 

AnfieldCat

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The goal should have been disallowed but I was expecting far worse when I watched MOTD2 last night after I had seen the pictures of it, I was expecting it to be way more aggressive than it was.

Plus he called us Champions on twitter, I forgive easily.
 

kingcymru

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Did anyone see Gerrard in the tunnel nervously eyeing up Nolan? It's as though Gerrard knew what was coming and had butterflies. They are feeling the pressure because they know it's on. So far they are dealing with it and it is feeding them but it is a balancing act and Rodgers is managing them brilliantly.

They are controlling their nerves far better than I am controlling mine.
Keep it up lads, onwards and forwards