Post Match: Wolves 2-1 Liverpool (FAC 7/1/19 7.45pm)

Man of the Match

  • Mignolet

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Camacho

    Votes: 6 5.0%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 34 28.1%
  • Lovren [off 7’]

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Moreno

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keita

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jones [off 70’]

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Shaqiri

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Sturridge [off 70’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Origi [GOAL 51’]

    Votes: 4 3.3%
  • Hoever [on 7’]

    Votes: 69 57.0%
  • Firmino [on 70’]

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Salah [on 70’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    121

epsomred

Give yourselves the chance to be heros
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
419
Ha Ha you've got to be kidding me.

Why don't you quote my full post instead of taking bits of it and patching it together to try and make it look like I said something completely different?

I said "Maybe we should abuse FFP and look to do the same". Anyone who understands English and has a basic understanding of sarcasm will be able to see it for exactly that. The lowest form of wit I know, but sarcasm all the same.

Twist a random previous post as much as you like, you implied we could learn something from City's attitude and culture. Well, their attitude and culture right now is one of cheating, corruption, arrogance, deceit and other abuses you might want to read up on. The polar opposite of everything my football club was built on.
If that's what you find commendable in today's game then maybe you should swap your allegiance.
Good to see the old Ricky Gervais “I wasn’t being an offensive hypocrite, I was being sarcastic about people who are and your too dumb to see it” defence get another run out. Briefly looking at your posting history, I don’t think we will ever agree on this or anything else for that matter so suggest we leave it there. Always a shame to fall out with a fellow red but these things happen.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
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Messages
51,753
Watch a game from the sixties compared to today. It’s about 50% the pace. There is a reason players could player 60 games on a diet of fish and chips and lager.
That doesn’t make it different and the players today has the technology to assist them and the help needed, the sports science has improved. We are not playing Jan Molby against De Bruyne. The game is faster but doesn’t make it different. Every team is on the same way of conditioniting the player, we are not handicapped by using those old days players way of life and training.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts...
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I think city have embarrassed us tonight. Put out a proper team even though it’s only Burton over 2 legs. Showed us that having a winning mentality means that you have the confidence to try to to win everything. Says a lot about the difference in attitude and culture between us and them.
This is worthy of the hall of shame, who goes for it?... lol
 

Commando

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Sep 23, 2016
Messages
1,571
That doesn’t make it different and the players today has the technology to assist them and the help needed, the sports science has improved. We are not playing Jan Molby against De Bruyne. The game is faster but doesn’t make it different. Every team is on the same way of conditioniting the player, we are not handicapped by using those old days players way of life and training.

I wouldn't mind playing Tommy Smith or Souness against De Bruyne and Fernandinho just for one game.
 

Lowton_Red

No football club is successful without hard work.
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Oct 19, 2015
Messages
1,855
I wouldn't mind playing Tommy Smith or Souness against De Bruyne and Fernandinho just for one game.
The Anfield Iron would have marked Fernandinho's card right from the kick off. De Bruyne would have already been eyeballed in the tunnel and dropped out with a bad case of the squits.
 

Red Eyes

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Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
241
I think city have embarrassed us tonight. Put out a proper team even though it’s only Burton over 2 legs. Showed us that having a winning mentality means that you have the confidence to try to to win everything. Says a lot about the difference in attitude and culture between us and them.

Ha Ha you've got to be kidding me.

Why don't you quote my full post instead of taking bits of it and patching it together to try and make it look like I said something completely different?

I said "Maybe we should abuse FFP and look to do the same". Anyone who understands English and has a basic understanding of sarcasm will be able to see it for exactly that. The lowest form of wit I know, but sarcasm all the same.

Twist a random previous post as much as you like, you implied we could learn something from City's attitude and culture. Well, their attitude and culture right now is one of cheating, corruption, arrogance, deceit and other abuses you might want to read up on. The polar opposite of everything my football club was built on.
If that's what you find commendable in today's game then maybe you should swap your allegiance.

To be fair I think epsomred was referring to the attitude and culture of Pep and his players more than the owners and the culture and practices of their country.

With City currently a very successful club it is easy to find controversy within their current culture, but when we were successful in the 1980s there are moments that I’m not proud of. Uniteds culture has been as bent as a boomerang for decades, and they are still influencing UEFA coefficients in Utd favour via David Gill. PSG similar, there are lots of clubs.

We might not like it, but football is about money these days and all the evils that go with it.

Probably very wrongly, I keep my head buried in the sand for anything beyond the immediate team, match, manager, club staff, opponents with just an occasional rant about the owners if it’s going wrong. Is it fair that City have more money and better lawyers, no. Will it make it even better if we beat them to the league title, of course.

From a pure match perspective I tend to agree with epsomred, in that Peps culture seems to be geared 100% towards actively winning every match. It would be interesting to know what team he would have picked if he were Klopp, but we will never know.

From an outsider looking in however, City definitely did a ‘hearts and mind’ exercise last week. They played a strongish line up, destroyed their opposition, praised Burton and Rotherham afterwards, publicly lauded Brian Clough, and respected the FA and Carabou Cup. My guess is that it is part of Peps remit, as City are on a massive mission to win a new global fan base and increase revenues. In the UK it may not mean much, but abroad their success, attitude and (visible) culture is not lost on new football fans coming through.

We already have that global fan base as a legacy from the 1980s and the 2005 miracle in Istanbul, but I’m not sure how many new fans would have been impressed by the line up, score, blaming the wind and grass etc.

The interesting thing for me is how the tone of this forum changed after two back to back defeats, there was way more bickering and split opinion than before the City match (myself included). I guess Brighton gives everyone a chance to regroup, and three points will put us back on track into a period where our sick and wounded can recover for the sharp end of the season.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts...
Admin
Joined
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Messages
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To be fair I think epsomred was referring to the attitude and culture of Pep and his players more than the owners and the culture and practices of their country.

With City currently a very successful club it is easy to find controversy within their current culture, but when we were successful in the 1980s there are moments that I’m not proud of. Uniteds culture has been as bent as a boomerang for decades, and they are still influencing UEFA coefficients in Utd favour via David Gill. PSG similar, there are lots of clubs.

We might not like it, but football is about money these days and all the evils that go with it.

Probably very wrongly, I keep my head buried in the sand for anything beyond the immediate team, match, manager, club staff, opponents with just an occasional rant about the owners if it’s going wrong. Is it fair that City have more money and better lawyers, no. Will it make it even better if we beat them to the league title, of course.

From a pure match perspective I tend to agree with epsomred, in that Peps culture seems to be geared 100% towards actively winning every match. It would be interesting to know what team he would have picked if he were Klopp, but we will never know.

From an outsider looking in however, City definitely did a ‘hearts and mind’ exercise last week. They played a strongish line up, destroyed their opposition, praised Burton and Rotherham afterwards, publicly lauded Brian Clough, and respected the FA and Carabou Cup. My guess is that it is part of Peps remit, as City are on a massive mission to win a new global fan base and increase revenues. In the UK it may not mean much, but abroad their success, attitude and (visible) culture is not lost on new football fans coming through.

We already have that global fan base as a legacy from the 1980s and the 2005 miracle in Istanbul, but I’m not sure how many new fans would have been impressed by the line up, score, blaming the wind and grass etc.

The interesting thing for me is how the tone of this forum changed after two back to back defeats, there was way more bickering and split opinion than before the City match (myself included). I guess Brighton gives everyone a chance to regroup, and three points will put us back on track into a period where our sick and wounded can recover for the sharp end of the season.
But that's ignoring the simple fact that City have the ability to field two different teams which are as competitive the one as the other (roughly one billion pounds has brought them to that point, it's important to remember that). Pep respected these competitions, no doubt about that, but hell... it's easier to do that when you can make eight or nine (?) changes in your team from one game to the next, and still look like you haven't weakened it at all.

So, your point is correct as an absolute, but ignores the wider context a bit.
 

jaffod

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Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,266
Good to see the old Ricky Gervais “I wasn’t being an offensive hypocrite, I was being sarcastic about people who are and your too dumb to see it” defence get another run out. Briefly looking at your posting history, I don’t think we will ever agree on this or anything else for that matter so suggest we leave it there. Always a shame to fall out with a fellow red but these things happen.
As opposed to the old 'cut and shut' method employed by yourself, where you took 2 sentences from one of my posts, chopped the most important bits out and joined up what's left to make it look like I said something I didn't.
It's clever actually providing it goes un-noticed but in this instance you were rumbled.
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,266
To be fair I think epsomred was referring to the attitude and culture of Pep and his players more than the owners and the culture and practices of their country.

With City currently a very successful club it is easy to find controversy within their current culture, but when we were successful in the 1980s there are moments that I’m not proud of. Uniteds culture has been as bent as a boomerang for decades, and they are still influencing UEFA coefficients in Utd favour via David Gill. PSG similar, there are lots of clubs.

We might not like it, but football is about money these days and all the evils that go with it.

Probably very wrongly, I keep my head buried in the sand for anything beyond the immediate team, match, manager, club staff, opponents with just an occasional rant about the owners if it’s going wrong. Is it fair that City have more money and better lawyers, no. Will it make it even better if we beat them to the league title, of course.

From a pure match perspective I tend to agree with epsomred, in that Peps culture seems to be geared 100% towards actively winning every match. It would be interesting to know what team he would have picked if he were Klopp, but we will never know.

From an outsider looking in however, City definitely did a ‘hearts and mind’ exercise last week. They played a strongish line up, destroyed their opposition, praised Burton and Rotherham afterwards, publicly lauded Brian Clough, and respected the FA and Carabou Cup. My guess is that it is part of Peps remit, as City are on a massive mission to win a new global fan base and increase revenues. In the UK it may not mean much, but abroad their success, attitude and (visible) culture is not lost on new football fans coming through.

We already have that global fan base as a legacy from the 1980s and the 2005 miracle in Istanbul, but I’m not sure how many new fans would have been impressed by the line up, score, blaming the wind and grass etc.

The interesting thing for me is how the tone of this forum changed after two back to back defeats, there was way more bickering and split opinion than before the City match (myself included). I guess Brighton gives everyone a chance to regroup, and three points will put us back on track into a period where our sick and wounded can recover for the sharp end of the season.
Makes no difference. Once there has been clear abuse of rules and regulations governing the game, and not for the first time in City's case, it invalidates any praise you might want to throw their way in how they conduct themselves.
It's easy to have a winning attitude/culture when you've assembled a ridiculously talented squad through corruption and deceit. That's why I made a sarcastic remark in one of my earlier posts, implying we should abuse FFP in order to compete with them - the same post epsomred chopped up to make it look like I'd said something completely different.
Of course their hypocrite of a manager is going to field the strongest teams possible in every competition, failure to do so will lead to questions from his puppet-masters and nobody would want to be in that situation I'm sure. Jurgen would probably love to be able to do the same but isn't able to given LFC has abided by the financial restrictions imposed on the game.
Let's make one thing clear, there is nothing commendable about MCFC with regards to how they operate and conduct themselves. They have cheated the system and to see some of ours holding them up as something we should aspire to makes me fucking sick.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Jurgen would probably love to be able to do the same but isn't able to given LFC has abided by the financial restrictions imposed on the game.
Not sure he would, actually.
 

Red Eyes

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Nov 5, 2018
Messages
241
But that's ignoring the simple fact that City have the ability to field two different teams which are as competitive the one as the other (roughly one billion pounds has brought them to that point, it's important to remember that). Pep respected these competitions, no doubt about that, but hell... it's easier to do that when you can make eight or nine (?) changes in your team from one game to the next, and still look like you haven't weakened it at all.

So, your point is correct as an absolute, but ignores the wider context a bit.

It was the longest thing I’ve ever typed as it was, my right index finger looks like Lovrens hamstring at the moment

Agree, but they still played Muric, Zinchenko, Foden and García who are not regulars by any stretch. As a back up striker to Aguero it must be nice to have Jesus. To be fair I’m not sure that DeBruyne, David Silva and Gundogan would have started if they weren’t coming back from injury needing minutes get back to speed. It could have been a weaker team they put out under different circumstances, while under different circumstances ours would probably have been stronger.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
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Nov 16, 2016
Messages
431
You want us to play with 10 men for 89mins?
I know your response was directed to me, but I will comment that I wouldn't want to play with ten men but would prefer a return to some physicality to the game. Not advocating a slaughterhouse, more a bit of adrenaline and brimstone.
 

Red Eyes

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Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
241
Let's make one thing clear, there is nothing commendable about MCFC with regards to how they operate and conduct themselves. They have cheated the system and to see some of ours holding them up as something we should aspire to makes me fucking sick.

Mate I don’t disagree with you, and I’ve had the same row with people at work who support City, Chelsea and United.

I just think that unless you are really polliticaly motivated, it’s best to sometimes separate the football from all the corporate and now national garbage above it.

We proudly have Standard Chartered emblazoned on our chests, bankers who with their banking mates contributed to a global recession a decade ago. They fund all sorts of projects in Asia, many of which aren’t ethical. We see the banner a thousand times a week, just like City fans see the Etihad design.

The sad truth is that most top clubs these days are owned by big companies,high worth individuals or States. The common theme is money, and that taints everything.

Do I care when Liverpool step out in their sponsored shirts when I despise bankers, no. Do I care about our partnership with Bet Victor when my cousin has a gambling habit that is destroying his life, no. I should on both counts, but I don’t. In many ways it shows a shallowness, but this shallowness also means I’m not going to get too worked up about the ethics of City’s owners, FFP, Abramovich’s money etc. I just want LFC players to express themselves, put in 100% effort and to try to win every game.
 

Commando

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Sep 23, 2016
Messages
1,571
I know your response was directed to me, but I will comment that I wouldn't want to play with ten men but would prefer a return to some physicality to the game. Not advocating a slaughterhouse, more a bit of adrenaline and brimstone.
I remember a few seasons back when Jon Flanagan went in hard but fair on Sterling in the first minute at Anfield. Sterling disappeared from the match and was substituted without having contributed anything.
 

Limiescouse

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Aug 26, 2014
Messages
12,605
From an outsider looking in however, City definitely did a ‘hearts and mind’ exercise last week. They played a strongish line up, destroyed their opposition,
It was objectively a fairly strong side, but still one that consisted of 9 changes from their supposed strongest side that played against us in their last league game. The main focus of the comparison with us that has been made is one based on the weakest of the selections. So, despite their billions spent, and flagrant FFP violations, their "2nd team" while containing players like Jesus and Gundogan, also included a kid in midfield with about an hour of Prem experience, a LB he Pep really tried to avoid using this season, a keeper who probably only a few of us here have ever seen play a single before, and a CB even fewer will ever have heard of.

The real difference in the games was not one of respect or attitude, but of them playing a 3rd tier side at home whereas we played a side away that is probably the "best of the rest."
 

Zinedine Biscan

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It was objectively a fairly strong side, but still one that consisted of 9 changes from their supposed strongest side that played against us in their last league game. The main focus of the comparison with us that has been made is one based on the weakest of the selections. So, despite their billions spent, and flagrant FFP violations, their "2nd team" while containing players like Jesus and Gundogan, also included a kid in midfield with about an hour of Prem experience, a LB he Pep really tried to avoid using this season, a keeper who probably only a few of us here have ever seen play a single before, and a CB even fewer will ever have heard of.

The real difference in the games was not one of respect or attitude, but of them playing a 3rd tier side at home whereas we played a side away that is probably the "best of the rest."
The same team that, lest it be forgotten, already took points off a full-strength City this season in the league.
 

Red over the water

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1,231
whereas we played a side away that is probably the "best of the rest."
This is the main point to me.

We were unlucky in the quality of opposition we faced, in both domestic cups. With our strongest side out we probably could have won both ties, though that’s not a foregone conclusion. But there’s no way our best team plays every game. It’s just not possible. It is very much a squad game, and the manager has to look at the whole picture, not just the game in front of him.

We narrowly lost, though in a parallel universe somewhere, our second and third string team has just walloped Burton Albion and we are all feeling good about ourselves.

The domestic cups have gone this season, which is a shame. We look ahead and it’s Brighton next in the Prem. Time to dust ourselves off and put in a performance, grab the three points and then sit back to see if Man city and Spurs can match us.
 
C

Caradoc

Guest
I think we’re all missing the point and what I am about to say next is quite astonishing when you pause long enough to think about it ....

We are still in the active squad building stage and yet there we are sat atop the EPL, 4 points clear, with Manchester City, Chelsea and Manchester United below us.

Just think about this for a second. Klopp hasn’t finished yet. I have little doubt he will bring in more new blood this coming summer, new top quality blood. Nothing tells me that Klopp is the best manager in the world right now more than this simple reality.

I believe that players like Lallana, Clyne, Sturridge, Moreno and Mignolet will all be moved on. Who knows what Milner’s plans are this summer? And when we come to bring in replacements, we won’t just be able to offer ECL football, we will have shown that this is no longer a one off ECL qualification.

But more than this, much much more, we may even be able to ask players if they would like to be part of an exciting ongoing project involving the current EPL Champions! Because folks that is how far we’ve come under Klopp and there’s still more to come!
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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Messages
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I know your response was directed to me, but I will comment that I wouldn't want to play with ten men but would prefer a return to some physicality to the game. Not advocating a slaughterhouse, more a bit of adrenaline and brimstone.
I was just having a laugh with @Commando mate, don't take the discussion too seriously.... they're known as hard men, and we've been discussing how the games have changed.
 

jaffod

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Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,266
Mate I don’t disagree with you, and I’ve had the same row with people at work who support City, Chelsea and United.

I just think that unless you are really polliticaly motivated, it’s best to sometimes separate the football from all the corporate and now national garbage above it.

We proudly have Standard Chartered emblazoned on our chests, bankers who with their banking mates contributed to a global recession a decade ago. They fund all sorts of projects in Asia, many of which aren’t ethical. We see the banner a thousand times a week, just like City fans see the Etihad design.

The sad truth is that most top clubs these days are owned by big companies,high worth individuals or States. The common theme is money, and that taints everything.

Do I care when Liverpool step out in their sponsored shirts when I despise bankers, no. Do I care about our partnership with Bet Victor when my cousin has a gambling habit that is destroying his life, no. I should on both counts, but I don’t. In many ways it shows a shallowness, but this shallowness also means I’m not going to get too worked up about the ethics of City’s owners, FFP, Abramovich’s money etc. I just want LFC players to express themselves, put in 100% effort and to try to win every game.
You're absolutely right in that if you dig deep enough you'll more than likely find something dodgy about most owners, sponsors etc. I like to think Liverpool supporters are a bit more clued up than most and we will make our feelings known if something doesn't sit right. There was a campaign against Standard Chartered during the Hicks & Gilette era, hence the 'Standard's Corrupted' shirts, and those 2 pricks were run out of town long before they had their mucky fingers prised away from the club. I always remember saying to my lad "you'll never see those 2 set foot in Liverpool again" after one incident (think it might have been the time their car got turned back before it reached the stadium) and that's exactly how it turned out.
I happen to think City's owners would have gone the same way if we'd ever been unfortunate enough to be bought by them. They'd have either bailed out by now or butched it out from a distance purely out of spite. There's no way they'd have been accepted with open arms like they have been by those fucking desperate twats down the road.
But yes, there's only so much we can do as fans but many can't just separate the 90 minutes from everything else and turn a blind eye to what goes on in the background. That's what marks our fans as different and is probably one of the reasons we get so much shite from opposition fans but I wouldn't have it any other way.
While I'm sure Standard Chartered aren't squeaky clean at least as a club we've used that income source in the right way while City have used theirs to abuse rules and regulations to gain an unfair advantage and have basically cheated everyone who has an interest in the game. That's what makes me laugh about opposition fans who think if Liverpool finish second the laugh will be on us when in reality it will be on every club in the country too.
 

Red Eyes

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Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
241
You're absolutely right in that if you dig deep enough you'll more than likely find something dodgy about most owners, sponsors etc. I like to think Liverpool supporters are a bit more clued up than most and we will make our feelings known if something doesn't sit right. There was a campaign against Standard Chartered during the Hicks & Gilette era, hence the 'Standard's Corrupted' shirts, and those 2 pricks were run out of town long before they had their mucky fingers prised away from the club. I always remember saying to my lad "you'll never see those 2 set foot in Liverpool again" after one incident (think it might have been the time their car got turned back before it reached the stadium) and that's exactly how it turned out.
I happen to think City's owners would have gone the same way if we'd ever been unfortunate enough to be bought by them. They'd have either bailed out by now or butched it out from a distance purely out of spite. There's no way they'd have been accepted with open arms like they have been by those fucking desperate twats down the road.
But yes, there's only so much we can do as fans but many can't just separate the 90 minutes from everything else and turn a blind eye to what goes on in the background. That's what marks our fans as different and is probably one of the reasons we get so much shite from opposition fans but I wouldn't have it any other way.
While I'm sure Standard Chartered aren't squeaky clean at least as a club we've used that income source in the right way while City have used theirs to abuse rules and regulations to gain an unfair advantage and have basically cheated everyone who has an interest in the game. That's what makes me laugh about opposition fans who think if Liverpool finish second the laugh will be on us when in reality it will be on every club in the country too.

Fair point, it’s only a year or so ago that there was a big petition and demo about the partnership with Tibet Water / Chinese occupation of Tibet.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
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Nov 16, 2016
Messages
431
I was just having a laugh with @Commando mate, don't take the discussion too seriously.... they're known as hard men, and we've been discussing how the games have changed.
Not taking it seriously, just noting how the game has changed in that aspect.
 



Medjool

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Jul 11, 2017
Messages
180
Gave MOTM to Fabinho. Thought he gave a really good account of himself in an unfavoured position. Think he will be one of the first names on the team sheet in the future.
 

Billy Biskix

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Jul 23, 2011
Messages
2,499
From an outsider looking in however, City definitely did a ‘hearts and mind’ exercise last week. They played a strongish line up, destroyed their opposition, praised Burton and Rotherham afterwards, publicly lauded Brian Clough, and respected the FA and Carabou Cup. My guess is that it is part of Peps remit, as City are on a massive mission to win a new global fan base and increase revenues. In the UK it may not mean much, but abroad their success, attitude and (visible) culture is not lost on new football fans coming through.
Pep was dick-swinging. Nothing more than that. The only hearts and minds they are winning are the next generation of glory-hunters who think that chanting 'We want 10' when you're 9-0 up against a team from the third tier of English football is a sign of a winning mentality.
 

Red Eyes

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Nov 5, 2018
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241
Pep was dick-swinging. Nothing more than that. The only hearts and minds they are winning are the next generation of glory-hunters who think that chanting 'We want 10' when you're 9-0 up against a team from the third tier of English football is a sign of a winning mentality.

If you are 9-0 up, I can’t think of a crowd in the land that wouldn’t have a section chanting “we want ten”
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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Jun 23, 2003
Messages
17,219
Pep was dick-swinging. Nothing more than that. The only hearts and minds they are winning are the next generation of glory-hunters who think that chanting 'We want 10' when you're 9-0 up against a team from the third tier of English football is a sign of a winning mentality.

It has got me thinking to be honest, whether winning everything in sight really does garuntee influx’s of new supporters.

We just take for granted that it is the way things happen, but more than ever before external factors would influence these decisions.

I’m not suggesting it’s a bad thing or it doesn’t help, more thinking along the lines of the conversation between father and son/daughter about when a child first decides to follow a football team.
 

Rambler

"First is first, second is nowhere". Bill Shankly.
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3,084
If you are 9-0 up, I can’t think of a crowd in the land that wouldn’t have a section chanting “we want ten”
You're absolutely correct. I remember chanting it myself along with everyone else on the kop when we beat the mighty Dundalk 10-0.
 
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