Post Match: Young Boys 3-5 LFC

ChicagoRed

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Downing didn't do anything wrong, but the problem is that he didn't do anything right either. Crossing the ball into a box he can fucking well see is empty is abdicating responsibility - saying I've done my job, not my fault if someone else hasn't done theirs. It not the attitude I want to see in the team.

In a team in which he was one of the three most experienced players he stood have stood out. But he got outshone by teenagers. He hid when players younger than him stepped forward and bailed us out.

Terrible, terrible waste of money
Enrique and Carra were worse. No disrespect to Young Boys, but you expect Downing, Henderson, Carra, Sahin and Enrique to be solid against this competition at the bare minimum.
 

gr_sounder

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I didn't say it wasn't impressive, it was.

Gerrard started playing for the first team when he was 18 years old, was one of the best players at around 21 onwards (in a side better than our current one) and was made captain at 23, taking over from Hyypia.

I'm not arguing that Shelvey has the potential to be a top class player, it's clear he does. However, statements such as "He's going to be better than Gerrard, trust me" is nothing short of ludicrous.

I'm not going to say any more on the matter as I'm clearly right (don't mean to sound like too much of a dickhead) so we'll just leave it at that.
Hehe, I see that when I did some editing of my original it took out some of the things about what happened at certain ages... by I'm not going to go back and edit again to correct... but of course you are right that Gerrard made his Liverpool debut at 18.

Other than that... it's just opinions and thoughts on the future... so I'm going to leave it at that and get back to the game at hand.
 

redbj

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Downing didn't do anything wrong, but the problem is that he didn't do anything right either. Crossing the ball into a box he can fucking well see is empty is abdicating responsibility - saying I've done my job, not my fault if someone else hasn't done theirs. It not the attitude I want to see in the team.

In a team in which he was one of the three most experienced players he stood have stood out. But he got outshone by teenagers. He hid when players younger than him stepped forward and bailed us out.

Terrible, terrible waste of money
Yes and no.

keeping the ball is paramount in top level football, but top managers will tell wingers at some point in time, put the thing where its meant to go, and we'll deal with the guy who isnt there who is meant to be.

im not saying that 11 players should wander around the park playing the dream ball regardless of players positioning, but in the case of the opening goal, if a winger beats his player, gets to the byline, theres really only one thing that should happen next, by putting the ball where its meant to go, your virtually telling your teammate to pick his game up without using words.

having said that, i didnt see the game, so im not lecturing, im just saying that in general its accepted, and in particular that first goal was the right thing to do.
 

SirBillShankly

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Sad that our young lads put in a terrific performance yet some people look for negatives and others question Gerrard's achievements and forget how he has carried the team season after season for us over the years.

Thought Wisdom was decent, seems he has overtaken Flanagan in the pecking order.
 

gr_sounder

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Sad that our young lads put in a terrific performance yet some people look for negatives and others question Gerrard's achievements and forget how he has carried the team season after season for us over the years.

Thought Wisdom was decent, seems he has overtaken Flanagan in the pecking order.
I don't think anyone is questioning Gerrard's achievements or diminishing them in any way.
Gerrard has been a tremendous player over the years - truly fantastic both on and off the pitch.

There is good and bad in every game, you can't just talk about the good things that happen --- especially when you give up 3 goals.
 

jimmydestiny

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Jonjo Shelvey is going to be better than Stevie G. Trust me on that.
I am delighted someone else shares my opinion. i have been shouted down for making that same claim in the past, but he is starting to come into his own now. Even if it was against a weaker than Prem side.
 

Mascot88

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Yes and no.

keeping the ball is paramount in top level football, but top managers will tell wingers at some point in time, put the thing where its meant to go, and we'll deal with the guy who isnt there who is meant to be.

im not saying that 11 players should wander around the park playing the dream ball regardless of players positioning, but in the case of the opening goal, if a winger beats his player, gets to the byline, theres really only one thing that should happen next, by putting the ball where its meant to go, your virtually telling your teammate to pick his game up without using words.

having said that, i didnt see the game, so im not lecturing, im just saying that in general its accepted, and in particular that first goal was the right thing to do.
I agree with that mate, but I get infuriated when I see Downing, time and time again crossing the ball into an empty box. Yes, we should have more players in there, but Downing usually looks up and must know that he is basically surrendering possession. It's a bit of both for me, but I see where you are coming from.

The first goal was a complete freak, through.
 

Mascot88

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Enrique and Carra were worse. No disrespect to Young Boys, but you expect Downing, Henderson, Carra, Sahin and Enrique to be solid against this competition at the bare minimum.
Yes I agree. Downing was just quiet, on a night when he should have been setting an example to the young lads. In the end the young lads ended up setting an example to him.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Shelvey has that ability to just look imperious on a football pitch. I don't know whether it's his composure, his confidence, physique, his burgeoning ability to pick the right option when he's passing. But it's a quality the top players have, and it's very encouraging to see it in a 20-year-old. I think he's going to be massive for us. To be perfectly frank, our first-choice midfield, with everyone fit and based on current performances, is Lucas-Allen-Shelvey.

Stevie seems to be in the side based on reputation at the moment, he's been pretty poor performance-wise.
 

TassieRed

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Shelvey has that ability to just look imperious on a football pitch. I don't know whether it's his composure, his confidence, physique, his burgeoning ability to pick the right option when he's passing. But it's a quality the top players have, and it's very encouraging to see it in a 20-year-old. I think he's going to be massive for us. To be perfectly frank, our first-choice midfield, with everyone fit and based on current performances, is Lucas-Allen-Shelvey.

Stevie seems to be in the side based on reputation at the moment, he's been pretty poor performance-wise.
I totally agree.

My biggest concerns about Shelvey previously were his anger management issues, poor finishing, and his inability to hold the ball up when the pass wasn't on. He seems to have improved a lot on those faults. Tonight he lit the game up when he came on. Although most players played well we didn't really have anyone who would make something out of nothing or open up the game until he came on. And both goals he took very very well.

I see him as fitting perfectly into Gerrards position. I think Stevie has been stifling us recently. I hope it's just a dip in form as he truly has been a wonderful player for us. But that's just how I see it.

I just wonder if Brendan sees it that way as well.
 

mappen1977

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Off topic but I would put Gerrard right up with Dalglish. My opinion of course, I believe Shelvey will also be a really good player but to say how good, well we just dont know yet. He is improving and that will do for me at the minute. Reminds me a bit of Lampard sometimes.
 

OhYaBeauty

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I think any claim that Shelvey will be better than Stevie is preposterous. Steven Gerrard was not only the best player in his position in the mid-2000s, he was one of the best players in the world. Zidane put him up there at the top spot for a while.

Stevie's also versatile; he could play as a winger, attacking midfielder, second striker and central midfielder at his best. He was the best right back in Europe for thirty minutes. His defensive abilities are there, if they're neglected a bit.

Shelvey clearly has the potential to be as good as Gerrard. I'd argue that Shelvey is even the better player at the moment (Stevie just doesn't fit BR's system) but he isn't definitely going to reach Gerrard's heights.


Hendo was impressive today. I really think he could do well in the Joe Allen role. He even looked like he learned to tackle.

Unfortunately I had to turn it off at half time. Anybody have any way I can watch the whole game, not just highlights?
 

cardiffpete

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Shelvey has that ability to just look imperious on a football pitch. I don't know whether it's his composure, his confidence, physique, his burgeoning ability to pick the right option when he's passing. But it's a quality the top players have, and it's very encouraging to see it in a 20-year-old. I think he's going to be massive for us. To be perfectly frank, our first-choice midfield, with everyone fit and based on current performances, is Lucas-Allen-Shelvey
In a nutshell - and Shelvey ....has just turned 20 last February.
Already seems destined to be a very special player for us down the line
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Positives:
- Got the 3 points with a relatively inexperienced team. Will only be good for the youth that they were given an opportunity and didn't lose.
- Jonjo Shelvey looks immense. Very composed when in front of goal and his shooting ability (left or right foot) is definitely undeniable. Him getting two goals can only help his confidence even more. He will be key for us in the Prem.
- Sahin and Hendo had decent games. Sahin takes pretty good corners. Better than anyone we've seen for a while.
- Coates is turning into a real goal threat. Wisdom scoring will also do great for his confidence.
- Assaidi and Suso showed moments of real quality and brilliance.

Negatives:
- Carragher is no longer good enough for these games. He gets caught out or beat by the opponent too often and is incapable of making up the ground.
- Enrique's form is really, really poor.
- Again, we are crossing a lot but we never get anyone in the box. Our forwards are always static and our midfielders never make the run. No one ever goes for the near post. Pacheco should be instructed to be making those runs but he never made a single one of them. The purpose of playing a false 9 is to make it hard for your opponents to pick up runners and so crosses in to the box can be quite effective. Messi scores fantastic solo goals but he also poaches many goals from good build up play. So does Fabregas. We need to make sure that our forwards and our midfielders are made aware that it is part of their job to make these runs and attack the ball. This is a problem we have when Suarez plays too and it is definitely something we need to fix. What good are all those quality deliveries from Sterling or Johnson when no one ever latches on to them?
 

Quagmire81

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Off topic but I would put Gerrard right up with Dalglish. My opinion of course, I believe Shelvey will also be a really good player but to say how good, well we just dont know yet. He is improving and that will do for me at the minute. Reminds me a bit of Lampard sometimes.
Anybody who wouldn't haven't been following Lfc since he broke through well over a decade ago. legend.
 

Bruce

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Comparing Shelvey with Gerrard, are you guys insane?

On topic: good result and experience for the young ones, hope to see more of them in the Europa League.
 

cardiffpete

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Unfortunately I had to turn it off at half time. Anybody have any way I can watch the whole game, not just highlights?
Google rojadirecta and both teams after any LFC match. They will have the match up (and with no spoilers aka no scoreline shown) with download links approx 3 hours after match has finished. Sometimes an avi or mpeg, sometimes even HD, and approx 600MB per half. Some download links are very slow, some are fairly fast aka 30~45 mins per download without subscribing . All with captcha.

It's a great way to re-watch the match afterwards (without the match day emotion) and then hook it up to a TV.
 

Hamidred85

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At the long last! A win for my beloved liverpool fc. I can't stop smiling!
 

ianrush

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wow! andre wisdom's goal was Liverpool's 200th in UEFA Cup competition since they first took part in 1967-68. :D
 

mappen1977

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Anybody who wouldn't haven't been following Lfc since he broke through well over a decade ago. legend.
This is true, my old man who went to all our euro cup finals years ago puts Gerrard behind Kenny, but it was different then as we were cleaning up. Maybe in years to come we will look back on Gerrard as been the gretest player through rose tinted specs.
I just think it is a tad unfair on Shelvey. IMO the lad looks like he should be a 1st team player ahead of other options and im glad we picked him up. Putting into perspective he should be knocking on Englands door soon considering Hendo gets called to the squad. Massive talent and potential but lets wait and see how he develops, scores two goals today and it's all praise, score an own goal against the mancs next weekend or has a stinker and some will be all over him. Lets give the young lad time and hopefully he will be a great player for us over seasons.
 

ianrush

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At least two goals were his fault, due to being out of position.

I don't know how anyone could defend him, or his selection. Personally, it's heartbreaking watching a player I've loved to bits get fucked over by average players every time he plays. He needs to retire, because at the minute he is doing his reputation no favours at all.

He is basically a one goal handicap.
don't want to see carra on the pitch ever again. not even in cup ties. :-(
 

Druss

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Enrique and Carra were two of our weakest players. To say they were suppose to be guiding our younger players doesn't bode well for either of them. Enrique definitely shouldn't play on Sunday. Carra won't.

I love Carra to bits. However I really think he should start considering moving into a more coaching role. I worry against better opposition he's just going to get caught out more and more.

What has happened to Enrique? The start of last season he was great. Now his defending is atrocious! I'm concerned with how many goals we've conceded so far. I really think BR needs to focus on getting our defense solid again. Regardless of who plays in our back four.

Positives: Henderson, wisdom, Coates and sahin. Susso did ok. But needed to get more involved in the attack.

And come on guys. Jonjo is good! He did excellent when he came on. However he came on for the last 15mins. YB were tiring and he was playing in front of Henderson and sahin who both had decent games. Henderson probably my man of the match.

To say he's going to be better than Stevie (atm) is ridiculous. You forget how good Gerrard was at 17 never mind when he was 28 - 29. He's single handedly won us games time after time.

If Jonjo can become half the player Stevie was then I'll be more than happy.
 

ianrush

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suso is an intelligent player but needs to beef up a bit. :-)
assaidi, a lively player. could be a steal. ;-)
i hope sahin proves me wrong. he looks like a pedestrian to me. minimal impact. B)
 

daddydave

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Loads of positives. Borini starting to play, shelvey is in amazing form, assaidi looks a quality player, sahin did well going forward, Henderson did a great job breaking up play, and suso looks like he can make something happen everytime the ball comes near him, does he ever lose the ball. Great to see wisdom take his chance, wouldn't mind him getting a shout at left back.
 



cardiffpete

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I just think it is a tad unfair on Shelvey. IMO the lad looks like he should be a 1st team player ahead of other options and im glad we picked him up. Putting into perspective he should be knocking on Englands door soon considering Hendo gets called to the squad. Massive talent and potential but lets wait and see how he develops
I'd agree re: first team material for LFC (and potentially for England as well)). Roy would have to be mad not to consider him, I'd feel, if his promise continues to be shown.

A small shout out for Borini as well though, who was equally impressive on the day. Borini's brilliant movement played a massive part in the comeback win in all three goals from 2-3 down.
 

mappen1977

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don't want to see carra on the pitch ever again. not even in cup ties. :-(
I still think he has a part to play. he gets criticised beyond reasonableness sometimes now just because we know he does not have the pace, but he still reads the game better then most with interceptions and blocks. Im happy with him and Coates as back up.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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I still think he has a part to play. he gets criticised beyond reasonableness sometimes now just because we know he does not have the pace, but he still reads the game better then most with interceptions and blocks. Im happy with him and Coates as back up.
I would rather the likes of Wisdom, Wilson, and Sama being given more chances. Carra has been a liability every time he's played for us.
 

Off_The_Heezay

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Are there any decent highlights of this kicking around? (As in, ones that show more than just the goals).

Or are there some on ITV at some point tonight? Cheers
 

TippRed

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I must be the only one but i thought hendo was quite poor. Didnt move or shape to make the right angles to develope the play out from the back. He preferred to abdicate responsability to the fullbacks and let them deal with it. This is def not his position.