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Pre match : Liverpool v Fulham (EPL 11/11/18 12pm)

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liver1

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We really need to put in a performance against Fulham. We dont have to bang in 5 but we must play well and dominate this game.

The Red Star game was a shock to the system and I think in some ways we knew something like that could happen but didnt want to believe it.

By that I mean we have been getting results but we know deep down it isnt clicking. The fact that we were playing good teams helped gloss over things.

We hoped we were just in 2nd gear and that we were on the verge of going through the gears. Well the Red star game brought us down to reality and makes us look in the mirror.

We have to go back to basics against Fulham. I feel like weve been trying to go straight to the fancy stages of step 5, in an attempt to recreate last years form, before we have done steps 2 and 3 which is the hustling and hard work.
 


Zoran

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Best possible side and a reaction, please. Trent is not playing well, I don't want him in. I'm sorry but it's not all about style, form also plays a part. That means Alisson, Gomez, Loven, vDijk, Robertson. Gini and Milner most probably. Then it depends if Keita (in that case Gini at #6) or Henderson can start. Would love to see Naby. If we can't start any of those two, then go with Shaqiri slightly ahead and play with 2 midfielders.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I can't shake this thought lately either, but I don't know to what extent it was just planted in my head by baseless speculation and how much of it is substantiated.

There's no way that Klopp would have made it this far if it was really just Buvac being the puppet-master, right? And why would Buvac not have just established himself as a manager in his own right?
I think it may be a case of them needing each other to make it work, and possibly through working so closely together for 17 years they never felt the need to develop the others' skill.

I'd love to be wrong, but I genuinely can't think of a performance, rather than just a handful of minutes here and there, where we've been at the very top of our game since around the time Buvac left. Last season our form in the league dribbled away around then, but most of us put that down to fatigue and the run to the CL final. Then at the start of this season it was the World Cup etc. Yet here we are with over a quarter of the season gone and things haven't improved. I'm getting quite worried.
 

Red Eyes

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Hopefully the Red Star match can serve a purpose as a wake up call and reality check. Yes we are unbeaten in the Premiership, and are keeping pace with a club that was 20 odd points clear last season. We still stand a decent chance of winning the league despite not being favourites. However the 'we are unbeaten in the premiership' card has been pulled out a number of times despite a few average performances lately and is papering over cracks.

The last nine games have seen 3 draws, 3 losses and 3 wins. The wins have been against Cardiff, Huddersfield and RSB who couldn't bring any fans. We have failed to best any top teams, City, Arsenal, Chelsea twice. These are cold hard facts that need to be analysed by the club in an attempt to figure out what is going on, as unless it is a top four spot will not be guaranteed. The starting line up last night underestimated Red Star, and tactically we weren't quick enough to substitute players when it clearly wasn't their night. The front three still aren't firing on all cylinders, midfield looks tired, and I dread to think what happens if Virgil is out for a month at any point with an injury.

I'd like to see Shaq and Sturridge to start against Fulham, with Mo and Mane on the bench. Partially to rest them, but also to remind them that there is competition to start for Liverpool FC. I don't care if we win by one or six goals, it's more important that we have the right shape, desire and fluidity.
 
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yiannos33

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Need to bounce back against Fulham,and show last night defeat was one off. No Lallana anywhere in the starting lineup.
Keep the front 3 of Mane,Firmino, Salah. Midfield of Keita,Henderson,Shaq. Back five of TAA,Gomez,VVD,Robertson and Allison.
If anyone is underperforming pull them within 30 minutes.
 



AussieLad

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I say fuck that shower of shit from last night off and play the kids. Surely they can't be as bad as what we served up last night
 

johnoleary

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if we do win and score a few i really hope people dont get carried away again,when we start playing a similar game as last year and winning against the better sides then i think we may have a genuine chance of winning the league..we are a very long way off that.
 

johnoleary

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Need to bounce back against Fulham,and show last night defeat was one off. No Lallana anywhere in the starting lineup.
Keep the front 3 of Mane,Firmino, Salah. Midfield of Keita,Henderson,Shaq. Back five of TAA,Gomez,VVD,Robertson and Allison.
If anyone is underperforming pull them within 30 minutes.
im sorry but if anyone says our performance against red star was a one off they havent been watching the other games we have played last season.
 

Red Ted

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I think it may be a case of them needing each other to make it work, and possibly through working so closely together for 17 years they never felt the need to develop the others' skill.

I'd love to be wrong, but I genuinely can't think of a performance, rather than just a handful of minutes here and there, where we've been at the very top of our game since around the time Buvac left. Last season our form in the league dribbled away around then, but most of us put that down to fatigue and the run to the CL final. Then at the start of this season it was the World Cup etc. Yet here we are with over a quarter of the season gone and things haven't improved. I'm getting quite worried.
We played a lot of shit games with Buvac around too, throwing away leads, conceding lots of goals etc... These performances are down to Klopp changing things up.

The League performances at the end of the season we're mainly due to distraction of the CL & being stretched squad wise, we were never going to mess up 4th place but things kept going against us there for a bit, a string of diabolical decisions not to award penalties didn't help.

We've all but stopped the high pressing game, we're not looking to smother the opposition when they're in possession anymore, the team is playing a different way/system this season & it shows despite the points total.
 
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johnoleary

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if you read my posts on here you will see as much as i love liverpool, ive supported us for 45 years,and i though last season we were outstanding i think we have been abysmal in most games this season,but i will say one thing,i think everyone vastly underated red star on tuesday,AT HOME,they are a pretty decent side,they held napoli 0-0 in the last home champions league game and ithink i read as well they had only been beaten twice at home in quite a few years,so yes as we saw at anfield theyre crap away but very hard to beat at home,saying all that it dosent excuse our poor performance but as ive said many times this season at the moment we really arent that good a side.
 



C

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if you read my posts on here you will see as much as i love liverpool, ive supported us for 45 years,and i though last season we were outstanding i think we have been abysmal in most games this season,but i will say one thing,i think everyone vastly underated red star on tuesday,AT HOME,they are a pretty decent side,they held napoli 0-0 in the last home champions league game and ithink i read as well they had only been beaten twice at home in quite a few years,so yes as we saw at anfield theyre crap away but very hard to beat at home,saying all that it dosent excuse our poor performance but as ive said many times this season at the moment we really arent that good a side.

And in those 45 years you’ve clearly never learnt how to use full stops. :shocked:
 
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santana

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when your play style ask robertson to attack and firmino to act like a defender then your play style is a .. shit !
and that explains the chaos when the team start a march becuase the lines disappeared !
asking firmino to act like a defender is like asking messi to act like a goalkeeper !
we saw arsenal match and you lost the midfield battle !
you can not control medfield with 3 players and you do need 4 defenders so start to play a new style 343 to get the best of your team .
as simple as that !
 



Mascot88

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when your play style ask robertson to attack and firmino to act like a defender then your play style is a .. shit !
and that explains the chaos when the team start a march becuase the lines disappeared !
asking firmino to act like a defender is like asking messi to act like a goalkeeper !
we saw arsenal match and you lost the midfield battle !
you can not control medfield with 3 players and you do need 4 defenders so start to play a new style 343 to get the best of your team .
as simple as that !
I think you’ve made your 343 point now.
 

Commando

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I usually say that any win will do. But, in this match I'd like us to wallop them. Firstly to improve our goal difference and secondly to improve our attackers' confidence. I'm not going to suggest who starts or what way they line up. Greater minds than mine can do that. I just hope that whichever eleven Jurgen fields and in whatever formation, that each and every one of them feels that they have to sweat blood and run through walls to atone for Tuesday's performance. Yes, it may be a game against PL relegation fodder, but let's treat it as a must win, winner takes all knockout clash.
 



BigJon

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Should be an easy win - but nothing is certain.
I dont think it would be a good idea to rest too many players - sends the wrong message to the team - Got to show some faith.

Alisson
TAA Gomez VDijk Robertson
Fabinho
Shaqiri Gini
Salah Firminho Mane

Moreno Mignolet Milner Lallana Keita Sturridge Henderson

Midfield gets a rest - except Gini who can be subbed off when the game is won.
Fabhino can always slot in at RB if TAA form has not picked up.
Seems a bit harsh to drop Milner who has had an excellent start to the season but maybe needs some rest.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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We've all but stopped the high pressing game, we're not looking to smother the opposition when they're in possession anymore, the team is playing a different way/system this season & it shows despite the points total.
This is the key point, imo: are we playing this new way deliberately, or is it happening as a result of a shortcoming in the coaching of our pressing game? I'd say given what Klopp has said after most games (the article Illuvatar posted in the Klopp thread bring these together quite nicely) that our style of play this season has been largely unintentional and the gaffer is getting quite frustrated it's not working as it did previously.
 

Rambler

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if you read my posts on here you will see as much as i love liverpool, ive supported us for 45 years,and i though last season we were outstanding i think we have been abysmal in most games this season,but i will say one thing,i think everyone vastly underated red star on tuesday,AT HOME,they are a pretty decent side,they held napoli 0-0 in the last home champions league game and ithink i read as well they had only been beaten twice at home in quite a few years,so yes as we saw at anfield theyre crap away but very hard to beat at home,saying all that it dosent excuse our poor performance but as ive said many times this season at the moment we really arent that good a side.
I pretty much agree with your conclusions but gee that was hard to read. I wasn't able to pause for breath ;-).
 



Red Eyes

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I can't shake this thought lately either, but I don't know to what extent it was just planted in my head by baseless speculation and how much of it is substantiated.

There's no way that Klopp would have made it this far if it was really just Buvac being the puppet-master, right? And why would Buvac not have just established himself as a manager in his own right?
I don't think there is any suggestion that Buvac was the puppet-master, but sometimes a team is better than the sum of its individual parts. Klopp and Buvac were a team for 18 years, together at Mainz, Borossia Dortmund and Liverpool, and clearly blended their own attributes to make something special. Klopp is an excellent front man for the club, likeable in front of the media, players buy into his enthusiasm, the fans love his passion, and he drives everything at LFC forward. By Klopp's own admission, Buvac was the brain behind lots of the tactics employed over the years. He was happier in the background rather than facing the media, quietly looking at ways to take advantage of opponents weaknesses, formations, and mid match substitutions. He wouldn't make any of these decisions himself, but would give Klopp options and information that he wouldn't normally have. The two bounced ideas off of each other for nearly two decades in a successful partnership. Taking Buvac away (for whatever reason, who knows?) doesn't make Klopp any less of an incredible manager. However it does leave a gap in the information flows and tactical options that he has available to him. To overcome this he could try to take Buvacs role on himself, but Klopp is clearly busy enough already and out of practise if Buvac had been doing this side of it for 18 years. Or Klopp can hire someone to take over Buvacs role, which had been the case. Hopefully this wobble is just a bedding process in a new relationship, which would be normal as the chemistry now will be different between that if Klopp and Buvac. As for Buvac, to go awol just before the CL final suggests something serious happened. First thought is for his health or his families health, you hope all is ok in that respect. He is still on the clubs books I believe, so may be being made to see his contract out if LFC are furious with him. There were rumours of a row between Buvac and Klopp before he went awol, and also rumours of him interviewing with another club for a manager role (which every number two will want to try at some point). Whatever happened before the CL final, timing was really really bad, and the gap he left might (or might not) be affecting things this season. My one surprise is that the media hasn't followed up more on what happened with Buvac, the club is keeping a really tight lid on it for whatever reason.
 

Red over the water

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I like the team Sir Bill Shankly posted in the opening post, and Mascot reiterated a few posts down, with expanded reasoning for all picks. Couldn’t agree more.

Centre backs are a pair. Let Trent play on to find his form against Fulham. Fabinho and Keita in midfield, plus Shaqiri for more creativity. Usual front three, but hopefully with a telling off from Klopp because they have to play for each other. And Firmino needs to be higher up the pitch, with Mo and Mane starting a bit wider than we’ve seen.

That’s the personnel. Beyond that the attitude needs to be right. If it is, we should get back to winning ways, and hopefully by several goals. With Man City having a derby against Man Utd, there’s an outside chance we go back to the top of the pile before the (stupid) international break.

As for Buvac, he’s gone! It was all a bit unsatisfactory as he didn’t show up at another team - I could understand him leaving to try his hand as a manager. So it seemed like there was a falling out, and even then, that was unprofessional because they parted company before the biggest game of the season, when it would have been better to swallow pride, present a united front for the final, then part company at the end of the season if it had run its course. One other thought on Buvac is that he helped to get us to 19 league points after 11 games last season, whereas so far at the same stage we are on 27 points. I’ve no doubt he made a good contribution while he was here, but overstating that, and overstating the current funk the team is in, both seem wide of the mark

Thrash Fulham and it will seem a lot better. And if Mourinho does a back-to-the-wall 1-0 special (I’m not betting on that, but you never know) then all of a sudden we’re dreaming of the title again when they go off for the international break.
 

Hope in your heart

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I think it may be a case of them needing each other to make it work, and possibly through working so closely together for 17 years they never felt the need to develop the others' skill.

I'd love to be wrong, but I genuinely can't think of a performance, rather than just a handful of minutes here and there, where we've been at the very top of our game since around the time Buvac left. Last season our form in the league dribbled away around then, but most of us put that down to fatigue and the run to the CL final. Then at the start of this season it was the World Cup etc. Yet here we are with over a quarter of the season gone and things haven't improved. I'm getting quite worried.
You might have a point. What is puzzling is also the fact that Buvac is still on the club's coaching team list (https://www.liverpoolfc.com/team/first-team). It's really strange, almost as if they are waiting for him. Certainly a very unusual situation...
 



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