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Simon Mignolet (GK) Sunderland

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Anfield rd Dreamer

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True red simply that Reina is our number 1 now and Mignolet hasnt arrived he will have to play well when given games to get more games. Untill that happens Reina is still first choice.

Mascott you obviously havent paid much attention Reinas good seasons were when Dudek and Cavalieri were still here (both decent enough keepers) yet his form has dive bombed over the last three years and there have been suggestions of lack of motivation. During that time his main back up was Jones. Doni never really got going and was only around for one of those seasons.
 


HarryFloyd

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
Mascott you obviously havent paid much attention Reinas good seasons were when Dudek and Cavalieri were still here (both decent enough keepers) yet his form has dive bombed over the last three years and there have been suggestions of lack of motivation. During that time his main back up was Jones. Doni never really got going and was only around for one of those seasons.
In other words, ever since the departure of Rafa Benitez and Xavi Valero.

Having a competent specialist goalkeeping coach on the staff is very important.
 

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HarryFloyd said:
In other words, ever since the departure of Rafa Benitez and Xavi Valero.

Having a competent specialist goalkeeping coach on the staff is very important.
Hate to sound harsh and hypocritical being a chunky built guy myself but do you not think Reina has looked out of shape and slower during most of that time? After his recent injury he looked in better shape on his return than for ages. Then his form picked up. Still same coach as last year.
 

MarlboroMan

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HarryFloyd said:
In other words, ever since the departure of Rafa Benitez and Xavi Valero.

Having a competent specialist goalkeeping coach on the staff is very important.
Its quite telling that the only Goalkeeping coach Pepe has praised is Valero. Our very own Achterberg came over from Tranmere Rovers. He is quite the mystery and what he brings to the club. Does he scout the opposition strikers to see what they tend to do? Don't know. Does anyone know who brought him over? Rodgers, Kenny or Hodgson?
 

gr_sounder

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HarryFloyd said:
In other words, ever since the departure of Rafa Benitez and Xavi Valero.

Having a competent specialist goalkeeping coach on the staff is very important.
True, but is it a cause and effect or coincidence or something else?
If as you say, Reina hasn't been the same since Rafa and Valero left, that is possible, but there are multiple reasons that could be the cause.
1. Maybe Rafa and Valero were that much better than their replacements
2. Maybe Reina only performs well with Valero coaching him and no other keeper specialist (no matter how competent) will get the "old Reina" back
3. Maybe it is the defense around him that allowed him to thrive earlier on
4. Maybe he hasn't had a good pair of shoes for the last few years and they don't let him move as well
5. Maybe he's just getting older and not quite as good as he once was... age catches up to all. Just because many keepers hit their peak around the age of 30 does NOT mean it happens to every keeper.

My guess is that it's a combination of all of these things.

Yes it's very important to have a competent specialist goalkeeping coach on staff, but can we say for certain that we don't have one right now?

My feeling on all this is, I think Reina is a good keeper. He's not great... he was, but has not been playing as well the last couple years. That's based on what I see personally... anyone can disagree with me. I have seen things in Mignolet (though I admit I've seen less of him) that suggests he is currently the better keeper who is hungry and looking to make his big name. He fits well with what is being molded in the rest of the team... players who should hit their peak in 2 years.

I personally wouldn't mind having both Reina and Mignolet on the squad, but if that happens, I think the only way it truly works is for Reina to be the #1 early on and get 2/3rds of the games.
 



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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
Mascott you obviously havent paid much attention Reinas good seasons were when Dudek and Cavalieri were still here (both decent enough keepers) yet his form has dive bombed over the last three years and there have been suggestions of lack of motivation. During that time his main back up was Jones. Doni never really got going and was only around for one of those seasons.
Was about to reply that his dip in form coincided with Rafa leaving, and the arrival of Hodgson, but Harry got there first.

My point is that it's a bit disingenuous of Reina to say that he needs competition to be his best. The man is paid 100k a week, and he expects the club to shell out another 50k (?) for someone nip at his heels and to encourage him to play a bit better. I don't believe that for a second - Reina is a better keeper and a better man than that - and I am sure that there are all kinds of games going on between Reina, LFC, Barca, Valdes and Monaco behind the scenes.

Even when Cavalieri was here, Reina's place was never seriously threatened - he was always the number one to Diego's number two. The signing of Mignolet is not to provide solid cover.
 

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MarlboroMan said:
Its quite telling that the only Goalkeeping coach Pepe has praised is Valero. Our very own Achterberg came over from Tranmere Rovers. He is quite the mystery and what he brings to the club. Does he scout the opposition strikers to see what they tend to do? Don't know. Does anyone know who brought him over? Rodgers, Kenny or Hodgson?
Hodgson from memory. He also instructed Reina that he needed to 'play more like an English keeper'.
 

HarryFloyd

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
Hate to sound harsh and hypocritical being a chunky built guy myself but do you not think Reina has looked out of shape and slower during most of that time? After his recent injury he looked in better shape on his return than for ages. Then his form picked up. Still same coach as last year.
I believe it's a combination of issues on and off field, which have effected his performances, which I do not believe have been as bad as some are making it out to be. Despite not being at his best, Pepe is one of the finest keepers around.

During those three years, the club has been in turmoil, players picked up injuries left right and centre, goals literally dried up, defence had more leaks than a tea sieve and Pepe often found himself facing more than one opposition player running at him with the ball with nary a Red shirt around.

All this will put a dent in any players confidence. How many fickle-minded folks over here were baying for Carra and Stevie's head and half a season of good performances, all of it seems to be forgotten and with Andy gone, Downing unlikely to go anywhere (no one wants him), Henderson, Allen and Shelvey, not too important to have a moan about, Pepe provides a big, juicy, convenient target for many to vent their spleen.

When we have arguments nay outlandish claims being made that getting rid of our best player and the reason we scored so many goals last year, would actually improve us, then you got to give a thought to an old adage "This is not cricket" and wonder...
 

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Mascot88 said:
Was about to reply that his dip in form coincided with Rafa leaving, and the arrival of Hodgson, but Harry got there first.

My point is that it's a bit disingenuous of Reina to say that he needs competition to be his best. The man is paid 100k a week, and he expects the club to shell out another 50k (?) for someone nip at his heels and to encourage him to play a bit better. I don't believe that for a second - Reina is a better keeper and a better man than that - and I am sure that there are all kinds of games going on between Reina, LFC, Barca, Valdes and Monaco behind the scenes.

Even when Cavalieri was here, Reina's place was never seriously threatened - he was always the number one to Diego's number two. The signing of Mignolet is not to provide solid cover.
This is correct... (well in my opinion at least).

All this talk of Reina getting sloppy because he didn't have serious competition is wide of the mark if you ask me.

Goalkeepers are a specialty breed among footballers. They are just different- and the position warrants this as while they are part of the team and the lynchpin of the defense, their work is largely solo. Also, their job is to be a last resort stop on a forward and they have little to no room for error. As such, confidence is more important there than anywhere else on the field.

Having 2 goalkeepers competing for a job, does not breed confidence... neither with the keepers nor with the defenders in front of them. You should have a definitive #1 - that's how you get the best out of a keeper.

You want a backup that has experience or is being groomed, but not someone on par with your #1.

Sidenote: I know some may think this flies in the face of what I said earlier about if we had both in our team, but it doesn't... in that situation I'm was saying "if" we had both... the way to make it work is to specify 1 is the prime, the other is learning the team and being groomed to take over in a year. That is the only way to make both thrive.

Competition is great for field players to push themselves... but it's often detrimental to keepers.
 

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Hey hey hey guys Im saying keep Reina next season Im just saying the competition will push Reina to be as good as he can be (which is still great) but having seen shocking stats over the last few weeks showing Reina is saving less and less shots on target and shots inside the box over the last few seasons I aint got my head in the sand. The guy has seemed out of shape, out of form and out of motivation. If bringing in a good keeper forces him to up his game or gets us a better starting keeper than him then thats what is best for the club. Which is what matters most end of day.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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gr_sounder said:
Competition is great for field players to push themselves... but it's often detrimental to keepers.
People keep saying this but when? It benefitted Spurs last season and United season before. Benefitted us last two times we brought in a starting keeper too with Reina having to keep former starter Dudek on the bench and Dudek having to keep more expensive Kirkland on the bench.
 
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Mascot88 said:
I still think that, despite the posturing from the club, if we sign Mignolet - as looks likely - Reina is done. He is too good to sit on the bench, and paid too much.
I genuinely don't understand why that doesn't seem to be computing with some fans.

100K p/w competition?

FSG really would be having a sea change & an about turn in approach & philosophy.
 

lfc.eddie

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
People keep saying this but when? It benefitted Spurs last season and United season before. Benefitted us last two times we brought in a starting keeper too with Reina having to keep former starter Dudek on the bench and Dudek having to keep more expensive Kirkland on the bench.
So you are saying Reina should step aside for Mignolet to start because he has more saves?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Im saying whoever plays best when given chances keeps the starting position Eddie knowing they cant afford to put in a half arsed performance and have to be on their game from day one.
 

gr_sounder

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
People keep saying this but when? It benefitted Spurs last season and United season before. Benefitted us last two times we brought in a starting keeper too with Reina having to keep former starter Dudek on the bench and Dudek having to keep more expensive Kirkland on the bench.
How did Spurs situation play out? Exactly like everyone expected.
Brad Friedel (one of my favorite players of all time and a genuine class act) is at the end of his career. Yes he is still a capable goalkeeper but he was 41 at the start of last year and his best days are behind him. If Spurs had any ambition, they needed a new goalkeeper that could take over and so what do they do? They get Lloris, and up and coming keeper that is coming into his prime. So how do they work the situation? Use Friedel to start the year as he is already comfortable with the club, then make the switch halfway through the year as Lloris gets more and more embedded in the team. No surprise there. If Lloris had failed miserably, Friedel could have probably been their #1 all season but would have been replaced this off-season. It worked, now Lloris may be there for 8-10 years. There wasn't really "competition" here, it was a changing of the guard.

How did the Manchester United situation play out? Lets look...
Van der Sar was retiring, so they brought in Lindegaard to be his replacement (similar to what Spurs did with Friedel/Lloris)... but in this case Lindegaard faltered. He didn't make the step up to be the type of keeper they needed. So they then picked up de Gea, who was one of the most promising young keepers in Europe. Make no mistake, this was a changing of the guard... it wasn't truly a competition unless de Gea failed to claim the #1 spot as Lindegaard had no hold on the top spot. I don't see this as "competition" either, but rather a changing of the guard.

As for Kirkland/Dudek? Not really a competition... Kirkland was never a serious competition for Dudek. He was highly thought of early on, but he was never a player for a major team. In his 5 years at Liverpool he played in what... 25 or so games? Good youth goalie who never made the step up to first team football.

Now look at the current situation at Liverpool. Reina is a hero to the club, and still playing well. He is undoubtedly the #1 at the club and could play for another 4-5 years at a high level. Bringing in a younger up-and-coming keeper as "competition" as both could do the job. If this is a "changing of the guard" situation where Reina is leaving at the end of the year... fine... that works for keepers. I still maintain that rarely does true competition help either keeper.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Gr_sounder we are in the same position Spurs were in but except for the clock ticking down on Friedels career its ticking down on Reina leaving for Barca. Expect it to work exactly the same.

On United, slightly wrong they knew when they brought in Lindegaard in Jan they were already planning on getting De Gea that summer.
 

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I think it is pretty obvious that Mignolet at least thinks he is coming here to be the started. It still wouldn't surprise me if Reina stayed 1 more year and held onto the starting job. But signing Mignolet does signal a changing of the guard, so the question really is whether Reina leaves this summer or provides (expensive) insurance against Mignolet failing and leaves next summer. Like Sounder's examples above having 2 first choice keepers for a transition year is not only possible, but fairly common. As others have pointed out, the situation would not last long term.
 

EdWood

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Being a bit unfair on Kirkland sounder; he had ability all right but he suffered from chronic fitness problems when he was here and was rarely available for selection.

I wonder what sort of salary Mignolet will be on?
 

gr_sounder

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Anfield rd Dreamer said:
Gr_sounder we are in the same position Spurs were in but except for the clock ticking down on Friedels career its ticking down on Reina leaving for Barca. Expect it to work exactly the same.

On United, slightly wrong they knew when they brought in Lindegaard in Jan they were already planning on getting De Gea that summer.
I think we agree on a lot of things here...

Ok, if we're in the same position as Spurs... then it's not "competition" it's a changing of the guard... that's what I'm saying.
All I was trying to say is that true competition between an established #1 and a newly brought in "competitor" rarely is good for the established #1. It almost always favors the newcomer. It's not like other field positions where competition often raises the talent level of all competitors. Well that's my take at least.

And you're right, I had my timeline on Lindegaard off (sorry not an expert on Man U - lol)... you're right that was essentially 2 new keepers coming in and seeing who did the job better.
 



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EdWood said:
Being a bit unfair on Kirkland sounder; he had ability all right but he suffered from chronic fitness problems when he was here and was rarely available for selection.

I wonder what sort of salary Mignolet will be on?
50k seems right. Half the wagss, same level keeper with upside.

I do agree with others about thr competition. Reina is on massive wages. That should be motivation enough. Mignolet will be hungry here.
Increased wages and a chance to take the Number 1 for the World Cup.

Nothing works for player morale like winning.
 

gr_sounder

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EdWood said:
Being a bit unfair on Kirkland sounder; he had ability all right but he suffered from chronic fitness problems when he was here and was rarely available for selection.

I wonder what sort of salary Mignolet will be on?
This is true, Kirkland did have a lot of injury problems. I didn't mean to suggest he was crap (though looking back I could see it might read harsher than I meant) but the fact is he had the injuries and once he was healthy he wasn't good enough. Now it doesn't really matter whether his development was stunted by the injuries (definitely likely a contributor) or whatever, he didn't make it as a top keeper.

As for salary for Mignolet... no idea.
 
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showmethemoney

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EdWood said:
I wonder what sort of salary Mignolet will be on?
I read I believe it was in the Times that he is going to be on 40K P/W.

So quite why they would retain a 100K P/W luxury who is likely to be benched, I'm seriously not getting, understanding or buying.
 

rupzzz

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Aparantly he's passed the medical and an announcement will be made later today by the club.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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gr_sounder said:
I think we agree on a lot of things here...

Ok, if we're in the same position as Spurs... then it's not "competition" it's a changing of the guard... that's what I'm saying.
All I was trying to say is that true competition between an established #1 and a newly brought in "competitor" rarely is good for the established #1. It almost always favors the newcomer. It's not like other field positions where competition often raises the talent level of all competitors. Well that's my take at least.

And you're right, I had my timeline on Lindegaard off (sorry not an expert on Man U - lol)... you're right that was essentially 2 new keepers coming in and seeing who did the job better.
Agreed mostly saying same things and expecting a more "Lindegaard" style keeper bought when Reina does go. A good keeper we wont mind using when needed but pretty much always expected to be a very good number 2 unlike Mignolet this year who needs to be little better as he is viewed as the long term number 1.
 



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Pepe is going to Barcelona. There is no other logical conclusion.

Victor Valdes (who I agree is playing poker with Monaco, etc) and the rest of FC Barcelona are all chumming it up with him in Brazil. Reina will know exactly what FCB's intentions are. So we've made our move and signed his replacement.

If we waited until Pepe was out the door, we might miss out on Mignolet. Simon would be aware there's a slight risk he'll be #2 here for a bit if Reina doesn't leave this summer but the kid is 24 and has a long career ahead of him. But I'd be very surprised if Reina is still here on Sep 1.

I think Mignolet is the real deal, but I admit that I'm pretty nervous about it all.
 

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REDSkins said:
Pepe is going to Barcelona. There is no other logical conclusion.

Victor Valdes (who I agree is playing poker with Monaco, etc) and the rest of FC Barcelona are all chumming it up with him in Brazil. Reina will know exactly what FCB's intentions are. So we've made our move and signed his replacement.

If we waited until Pepe was out the door, we might miss out on Mignolet. Simon would be aware there's a slight risk he'll be #2 here for a bit if Reina doesn't leave this summer but the kid is 24 and has a long career ahead of him. But I'd be very surprised if Reina is still here on Sep 1.

I think Mignolet is the real deal, but I admit that I'm pretty nervous about it all.
It's no surprise really. Changing keepers is always a massive risk. We've been lucky with Westerveld not doing bad, followed by Dudek and Pepe. We've had some poor signings in that time too ofcourse (Kirkland and Carson spring to mind) but for me Mignolet looks to be a clever and well thought out signing.

If Pepe goes, so be it. He deserves his chance at his boyhood club and has been a great servant. If we get back some of Mignolets fee then that's a bonus. Ofcourse I'd rather he stayed, but we have to wait and see. A long time yet to go before we know, but I for one am much happier if we secure our 1st choice replacement before we sell our existing No.1.
 

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I also think Pepe is leaving. Mignolet is going to be our no.1 keeper and we are probably going to get another keeper (I assume someone like Ochoa), at the end of the transfer window to have a decent back up, with Jones moving to the no.3 position.
 

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showmethemoney said:
I read I believe it was in the Times that he is going to be on 40K P/W.

So quite why they would retain a 100K P/W luxury who is likely to be benched, I'm seriously not getting, understanding or buying.
If Mignolet starts. If Reina starts, and this is about competition, the club is effectively paying 10m quid and 40k a week to give Reina a kick up the arse.

I'm not sure what that says about Reina to be honest. I think Pepe is too professional to need that kind of treatment.

Pepe has been a fantastic servant to the club and I'm sure he goes with everyone's best wishes - but Mingolets signing certainly means we're looking to move him on.
 

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I don't think its up to the club to shift Reina on. There has to be interest in the player first. Barcelona is the most likely destination. Pepe has been linked with nowhere else. But Barcelona still have Valdes for another year. They may or may not sell him this summer and they may or may not bring in Reina. Nothing is decided on their end just yet.

The club is just moving quickly to secure the future regardless of what scenario ends up playing out. If Barcelona want him now, then we sell and the two fees cancel out but we have a new up and coming keeper who has been bang on form for two seasons. If Barcelona don't want him, Pepe stays for one more season. Look, one season of 100k per week is not that much to pay for a top insurance policy. Switching your first team keeper is always a very risky proposition. Just look at the trouble United first had with De Gea. If Mignolet ends up not performing right away, it would be good to have Pepe around for one more season to ease him in and also offer some competition. Perhaps Mignolet could learn things off of Pepe. Who knows. I don't think having two quality keepers can ever be thought of as a bad thing. It didn't really seem to hinder either keeper's ability over at Spurs last season.

Anyways, with Pepe, we will have to wait and see. There is no point speculating again and again over his future until we see some clear movements. For the time being, we should welcome in our new addition...

A Mignolet...
A Mignolet...
A Mignolet....
Eeeee e e um um aweh
 



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