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Stewart Downing - To Middlesbrough // Arsenal!

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Doggie

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Nah, we've had much bigger disappointments, like Carroll or Keane ... Downing was never worth 20 million, but he is not such a bad player, especially since he can play at 3 positions in Rodgers' system ... Considering that our squad is paper thin, I would keep him until the summer, and then put him on the market ...
I dunno, I think there was a sense of regret when Carroll left as he seemed to be starting to deliver.All depends if Rodgers has someone else lined up - if he needs to get rid of Downing first then fuck yeah, off he goes into the sunset, with any luck to Arsenal!
 


mattyhurst

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I tend to think that to, I would rather us play a Left back at Left back, though but to be fair to Rodgers until Enrique picked up this knock he seemed to have worked that out.
 

!DALGLISH!

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personally think downing has had a rough ride here, last season he should have had 14/15 assists easy. watch the games back and see how many easy chances were missed.

Saying that i dont think we should have bought him when young had just join utd, villa were never going to let him go cheap. there were better options.

The truth is the owners dont want 90/70k a week subs, thats why whether rodgers wants him or not downing is for sale. ala cole, carroll etc
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Downing isn't really a "bad" player he is just a player that doesn't fit here.

Can't blame him for taking the move why should'nt a player want to play for one of the most historic clubs around?

But the problem was he was just part of a massive scouting/team building failure.

Kenny in his first six months here had us playing some really entertaining, quick, creative, technical football with the likes of Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt, Meireles and with Carroll as something a bit different within the attack.

For some reason the wrong decision was made that summer and instead of keeping that going and having Carroll as the out of place sweet cranberry sauce that makes the savoury pork bagette work the decision was made to go more direct to suit Carroll.

Practically every purchase made that summer was based on chance creation to switch to a more direct play set up to get the best out of Carroll.

It worked better than the 8th place finish suggests but still think it was wrong direction for the team.

Still think Rodgers is fighting up hill to try and get us away from more direct play and the fact we attempt 43 crosses against Villa shows he hasn't got us there yet.

Unfortunately the likes of Downing aren't right for the direction the club needs to go though so he needs to move on and he will probably still do reasonably well at a more direct playing club like Sunderland, QPR, West Ham or West Brom.

Sure he will be bought by somebody in either January or the summer and until he goes we will just have to accept he is part of the team and let him get on with it whether he is played at left back or the wing, he has limitations as a player but it wont do us or him any good to be too negative about it all.
 

indianscouser

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A few more good games and we should be able to offload him for a fee of 7-8. Same applies with cole.
I hope we learn from our mishap. Buy recruitment first and then sell.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I wonder if we'll be stuck with Downing until the summer. I think it would take a decent deal for BR to sell him in Jan, as he seems to think he provides a few options, and I don't think that deal with be forthcoming.

However, there's a good chance Boro will be back in the PL next season, if that happens I wouldn't mind betting he'll end up back there.
 

lancashirelad

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Given how small our squad is already, I'd be surprised if we lost more than a couple of players and it may not even be that many.

Rodgers has pointed out all season how small the squad is, so to come out of the January transfer window with the same amount of players or even just one more would give the impression that an opportunity had been missed and BR and FSG will get even more stick.

Soemthing tells me that Cole wont go either unless its another loan deal
 



RichLFC

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A few more good games and we should be able to offload him for a fee of 7-8. Same applies with cole.
I hope we learn from our mishap. Buy recruitment first and then sell.
Stoke are interested. Fee of about 7m or so. Has legs

Snap their hands off

The bloke is put simply a wrong un. There are some fellas that have what you could describe as an infectious mentality. His is an infectious mid talble mentality. Is an anchor weighing down the squad and like any disease, you need to cut it out and remove the primary infected sights as soon as possible. He's one of those players you just have to get rid of, by hook or by crook, a malignant dressing room presence, not so much due to a nasty personality, more due to a lack of desire to push himself which can easily rub off on the younger players. It can cause a lot of damage if left unchecked

No point in delaying what is basically inevitable. Seen us do the same with others like him in the past and generally speaking you are better off clearing out the empties before they pile up. Should have been the first out the door last summer, disappointed we didn't try as hard to get shot of him as we apparently did with Carroll

He's a footballing equivalent of a psychic vampire. Lowering teams to his level when he plays rather too often, sucking the belief out of team mates and fans. You really don't want to get stuck with a player like this at a big club. Smaller clubs though, it's a bit different, less inferiority complexes

In the meantime we are stuck with a bog average player who is stealing a wage off us and going through the motions. Can't wait till Rodgers drop kicks his arse out the door. We are gonna have a party when Stewart Downing leaves. Could rival the Voronin and Jovanovic leaving bashes for sheer fun and larks ;-)

God I have hated some of our buys in the last few years. Lot of them fit snugly in to the Julian Dicks and Phil Babb wheelybins. Can't wait to heckle him when he plays for the Liverpool 'legends' (pfft) 6 a side team when they go on tour in 10 or 15 years. They may be struggling for numbers by then so he might be their waterboy. Mid table footballers don't become legends at LFC and should not be tolerated here

Have to admit though, you do wonder how bad our legends teams is going to be in the future. Numbers wise they do look rather thin on the ground now. Downings and Jovas and Joe Coles rather than Fowlers, Rushes and Barnesses. Grim. Used to have top players play for us who end up being fondly remembered. In recent years though we have had more dead wood than the Mary Rose. Many of the players playing for the LFC teams between 2009 and the present day would be breaking the trades descriptions act claiming legendary status in future years. "Remember when we finished 6th once? Happy days they were"

Just a few eye opening home truths for y'all if we don't take the need to get shot of poor quality players and dead wood seriously. Because after a while they threaten to become the norm. In some ways that's already happening. Longer you leave it the worse it gets. A good 7m player can be found in Europe if our scouts pull their fingers out their arses and make an effort to track one down. Cold also trigger Ba's release clause if we felt so inclined
 

RichLFC

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Sure he will be bought by somebody in either January or the summer and until he goes we will just have to accept he is part of the team and let him get on with it whether he is played at left back or the wing, he has limitations as a player but it wont do us or him any good to be too negative about it all.
Nah, bollocks to that Wendy talk, mediocrity has to be rooted out of this squad, it has to be destroyed. For so called senior players, it's zero tolerance now in my book

Time to be a lot more ruthless. Last summer we tried to be but perhaps made the big error of only looking at wages and age for the most part and not the true mentality of certain squad members. He should have gone then. Ultimately in a team environment you need to have an atmosphere of working hard for your place, not having players playing due to how much they are getting a week or for so called shop window purposes. There needs to be a true meritocracy where you know players are being picked for purely the right reasons. Otherwise you quickly see the life drain out of a team

Not that I disagree with what you wrote above btw. It was an epic scouting fail and the strategy behind buying in was fucked up. But if Rafa could get rid of a dud in 6 months I see no reason why it should take the club 2 years to remove Stewart downing. He's not going to get any better in the long run, the bridges are burned

Get him out now

Honestly speaking had we loaned downing to west ham and kept Andy around, reckon we would have been a fair bit better off. Still had a 3rd striking option and Robinson and Suso may have seen more game time. Young players who can improve, including Andy. Not mediocre journeymen playing as a square peg in a round hole. Nothing more disillusioning than seeing that to a supporter
 

OhYaBeauty

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Another classic Rich rant. Downing to Stoke would be good for all parties. We get rid of a plague on our team's morale, Stoke gets a (supposedly) good crosser of the ball, and Stewart gets to play again.

I think our legends team is still in decent shape, though. If you're considering Downing then the likes of Xabi, Garcia, Hyypia, Finnan, Riise, Carra, Gerrard, Torres(debatable), Lucas and Luis
 

Prolix

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Stoke love our not-quite-good-enough players, don't they?
 

RichLFC

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Another classic Rich rant. Downing to Stoke would be good for all parties. We get rid of a plague on our team's morale, Stoke gets a (supposedly) good crosser of the ball, and Stewart gets to play again.

I think our legends team is still in decent shape, though. If you're considering Downing then the likes of Xabi, Garcia, Hyypia, Finnan, Riise, Carra, Gerrard, Torres(debatable), Lucas and Luis
If they can be persuaded to turn out ;-)

But another 3 or 4 years of mid table finishes and disastrous signings, we could have a pretty stinky legends team in a couple of decades time. In all seriously, our playing legends supply is running lower every year and we do seem to be accumulating too many ordinary players. It's a fall in standards thing and it is concerning

Some say it took us 6 months to see Keane was a dud, but it could be 2 years with downing if he doesnt leave this january who for me has been much, much worse. Yet we haven't been as ruthless. Disappoints me really. Sometimes some things are obvious and there is no getting away from simple realities. Like the Konch, this fella is simply not cut out to be a Liverpool player
 



OhYaBeauty

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Funny, I thought we bought players to improve our current squad, not our legends squad in fifteen years
 

RichLFC

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Funny, I thought we bought players to improve our current squad, not our legends squad in fifteen years
More of a debate around how many legends we will really be remembering in future years if things carry on the way they are. It's an eye opener sometimes when you have players of this kind hanging on for grim death and still playing in the first team to boot

Good thing is that Rodgers has told him to find another club. Don't think it helps though when you then recall him to the first team authority wise, but I hope we start cracking down on mentally weak players and do a thorough assessment on those who have what it takes and those who don't. Starting now
 

SF Red

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I somewhat agree with Rich. When Kenny sent Konchesky in loan, we had worse options than we have now.

FBs then - Glen, Kelly (starters)/Carra, Skrtel, Flanagan, Robinson (in crisis)
FBs now - Glen, Enrique, Wisdom / Henderson, Robinson, Flanagan

IMO getting Konchesky out if the dressing room was part of the key to the good run we had. We need all the players in the dressing room to see a future at the club and to be fighting for their spots. Konchesky, Downing, and Cole had/have no future at the club. They need to leave as soon as possible IMO.

If Robinson leaves on loan, you can recall him in a crisis.
 

lancashirelad

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Until anything actually happens these are all rumors, but it surprises me that rumors would have it that Liverpool would buy Sturridge for 12 million but Liverpool can't sell any of its English talents for 12 million. Something is not right somewhere.
 

SF Red

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Until anything actually happens these are all rumors, but it surprises me that rumors would have it that Liverpool would buy Sturridge for 12 million but Liverpool can't sell any of its English talents for 12 million. Something is not right somewhere.
We are desperate to get players in and somewhat desperate to get rid of players. Unless another club really wants one of our players, we will be selling at the low end (and everyone knows we need players so we will be buying at the high end).

Also, no players we have that we want to sell are the same level of Sturridge (please let's not get into the Sturridge is dross (or our savior) argument here). Which English players are we trying to get rid of? Downing (12m was probably his value before we bought him and he regressed so much - on high wages), Cole (we will be lucky if we can get someone to pay half his wages), Henderson (maybe, but he is still on high wages for a midtable side - and only midtable sides will come in for him to start right now). I think we can get 12m or maybe a bit more for Carroll.

That being said, it may be that Sturridge won't go for 12m or that we may actually not end up purchasing him.
 



RichLFC

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I somewhat agree with Rich. When Kenny sent Konchesky in loan, we had worse options than we have now.

FBs then - Glen, Kelly (starters)/Carra, Skrtel, Flanagan, Robinson (in crisis)
FBs now - Glen, Enrique, Wisdom / Henderson, Robinson, Flanagan

IMO getting Konchesky out if the dressing room was part of the key to the good run we had. We need all the players in the dressing room to see a future at the club and to be fighting for their spots. Konchesky, Downing, and Cole had/have no future at the club. They need to leave as soon as possible IMO.

If Robinson leaves on loan, you can recall him in a crisis.
Agree with this totally. I think Kenny knew the vibes were all wrong with Konchesky and felt it best all round for him to be shuffled out the door ASAP. He wasn't all that expensive and was an inoffensive guy but after his mothers career advice it was best all round that we didnt waste any more time flogging a deceased quadruped. Got a transfer fee for him and he didn't make a fuss when he left. Removing Downing though seems to be rather more troublesome, but even if we didn't replace him, think the benefits still outweigh the risks. With him and Cole gone, maybe a meritocracy becomes truly possible. You can allow younger players mistakes as they settle, they will improve but older duds are not worth the game time and the only thing worse than giving dead wood game time is giving dead wood game time out of position. Lowest form of barrel scraping guaranteed to lower squad morale
 

SF Red

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Agree with this totally. I think Kenny knew the vibes were all wrong with Konchesky and felt it best all round for him to be shuffled out the door ASAP. He wasn't all that expensive and was an inoffensive guy but after his mothers career advice it was best all round that we didnt waste any more time flogging a deceased quadruped. Got a transfer fee for him and he didn't make a fuss when he left. Removing Downing though seems to be rather more troublesome, but even if we didn't replace him, think the benefits still outweigh the risks. With him and Cole gone, maybe a meritocracy becomes truly possible. You can allow younger players mistakes as they settle, they will improve but older duds are not worth the game time and the only thing worse than giving dead wood game time is giving dead wood game time out of position. Lowest form of barrel scraping guaranteed to lower squad morale
Also, on the pitch there is trust. Agger, Skrtel, and Reina need to be able to trust that the RB/LB has the back post covered on the cross. You could sense a little bit of fracturing last season when Enrique started to lose it. Agger and Reina were often seen yelling at Enrique (or had their hands up saying "what the f*** are you doing") when he made mistake. When Agger makes a mistake, it is not so much like that unless there is a goal. If Agger, Reina, and Skrtel don't trust their LB (or RB) they will hesitate a bit thinking that the back post might not be covered. Reina may start to lean to the back post a bit more.

Also, there are excuses on the pitch. If you know that there is a weak link and the other club is going to target that player, that hurts the effort on the pitch (ever so slightly at least). There is usually a slight lessening of the motivation when players feel that everyone is not pulling their own weight. Part of the manager's job is to fight this and control it, but it is difficult IMO and can never be fully rectified.
 

lancashirelad

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We are desperate to get players in and somewhat desperate to get rid of players. Unless another club really wants one of our players, we will be selling at the low end (and everyone knows we need players so we will be buying at the high end).

Also, no players we have that we want to sell are the same level of Sturridge (please let's not get into the Sturridge is dross (or our savior) argument here). Which English players are we trying to get rid of? Downing (12m was probably his value before we bought him and he regressed so much - on high wages), Cole (we will be lucky if we can get someone to pay half his wages), Henderson (maybe, but he is still on high wages for a midtable side - and only midtable sides will come in for him to start right now). I think we can get 12m or maybe a bit more for Carroll.

That being said, it may be that Sturridge won't go for 12m or that we may actually not end up purchasing him.
It baffles me that BR continues to complain about a thin squad and we're talking about players going.
How stupid would it be if we came out of the January transfer window with less players than we went in with.

For now, at least, I hope none of them go i January, we need the depth and we need the back up players
 

SF Red

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It baffles me that BR continues to complain about a thin squad and we're talking about players going.
How stupid would it be if we came out of the January transfer window with less players than we went in with.

For now, at least, I hope none of them go i January, we need the depth and we need the back up players
I think we are just three players short of a full size squad numbers wise (we need a backup LB, a backup DM, and another forward. Unfortunately, we have players that fill spots, numbers wise, that are just not up to it - namely, Downing and Cole. If we had a front line of Suarez, Borini, Sterling, Assaidi, Suso, and two other players that were good enough for a club with our ambitions, we would be fine this season (I would want to pick up one more in the summer - hopefully a starter level player). Also, if we had a backup LB that was better than Downing, we would be fine there. Same if we had a backup DM. Unfortunately, some other players just aren't good enough anymore or aren't good enough yet. But numbers wise, we are not that short from a full size squad.

That being said, who says they would be happy with fewer players after the window? We need to get two forwards that can replace Downing and Cole and I assume we will get 2. I would also love a backup LB to fight with Enrique for that spot but that will probably wait until summer. If we have Wisdom, Enrique, and Glen as the three starters and we use others (Skrtel, Agger, Carra, Robinson, Flanagan) in emergencies, I would be ok with that. They players have to want to play for each other. Weak links make that difficult.
 

lancashirelad

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I think we are just three players short of a full size squad numbers wise (we need a backup LB, a backup DM, and another forward. Unfortunately, we have players that fill spots, numbers wise, that are just not up to it - namely, Downing and Cole. If we had a front line of Suarez, Borini, Sterling, Assaidi, Suso, and two other players that were good enough for a club with our ambitions, we would be fine this season (I would want to pick up one more in the summer - hopefully a starter level player). Also, if we had a backup LB that was better than Downing, we would be fine there. Same if we had a backup DM. Unfortunately, some other players just aren't good enough anymore or aren't good enough yet. But numbers wise, we are not that short from a full size squad.

That being said, who says they would be happy with fewer players after the window? We need to get two forwards that can replace Downing and Cole and I assume we will get 2. I would also love a backup LB to fight with Enrique for that spot but that will probably wait until summer. If we have Wisdom, Enrique, and Glen as the three starters and we use others (Skrtel, Agger, Carra, Robinson, Flanagan) in emergencies, I would be ok with that. They players have to want to play for each other. Weak links make that difficult.
I was almost with you, until you suggested we let Downing should go, wage bill and all, I'd keep him as a backup. He's being used as a utility player which of course he isn't. Since he's come to Liverpool it's been a whirlwind of emotions and ins and outs for the him and I honestly believe he needs to feel settled because, as some have said, confidence is a big factor in why he hasn't always performed. I think for him to be sold or loaned again would been a major knock to the guy and I'm glad Rodgers is trying to use him so positively now.

I suspect Kenny chose to play both Downing and Henderson on the wings for a couple of possible reasons. It may have been he saw potential in them to play that role and he tried to nurture that side of their game or it may have been because he (Kenny) sincerely felt the best way to get them to believe in their own game was to have them playing regularly and there wasn't room to play either of them in the center. Whichever it was I think it was done for the right reasons whether or not the result was positive.

This season Henderson has obviously been working hard in the background as has Downing, but we all realize Downing was bought to deliver crosses to Big Andy and now he seems redundant to many fans but I think he's got something to offer, sure he's said many times he's homesick and must be peed off by travelling over the Pennines every day or so.

If Downing goes good luck to him, I'm sure he will blossom into a great player and we'll be looking at another ex Liverpool player who's making headlines for all the right reasons, but as I said I hope no-one goes.
 



SF Red

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I was almost with you, until you suggested we let Downing should go, wage bill and all, I'd keep him as a backup. He's being used as a utility player which of course he isn't. Since he's come to Liverpool it's been a whirlwind of emotions and ins and outs for the him and I honestly believe he needs to feel settled because, as some have said, confidence is a big factor in why he hasn't always performed. I think for him to be sold or loaned again would been a major knock to the guy and I'm glad Rodgers is trying to use him so positively now.
I was not saying he should go because of the wage bill (I never mentioned the wage bill). I think he should go for the second half of this season because he is a detriment on the pitch and his presence is probably one in the dressing room (as discussed above) - much like Konchesky. I would rather he was sold. For him, he could have 6 months and a full preseason to settle in with his new team. for us, we would get a fee and be done with the business. All this loaning players that won't make it here doesn't work for me (Carroll, Spearing, Downing, Cole, Aqua). These never seem to end well.

That being said, I would love for him to take over a spot in the first 11, score 10 goals before the middle of January, and stake a claim to his spot. I love being wrong when I don't think a player is good enough. (text was bolded during Fulham match)

And, yes, I don't understand Downing there either, but he was good at LB in the last match.
 

RichLFC

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I was almost with you, until you suggested we let Downing should go, wage bill and all, I'd keep him as a backup. He's being used as a utility player which of course he isn't. Since he's come to Liverpool it's been a whirlwind of emotions and ins and outs for the him and I honestly believe he needs to feel settled because, as some have said, confidence is a big factor in why he hasn't always performed. I think for him to be sold or loaned again would been a major knock to the guy and I'm glad Rodgers is trying to use him so positively now.

I suspect Kenny chose to play both Downing and Henderson on the wings for a couple of possible reasons. It may have been he saw potential in them to play that role and he tried to nurture that side of their game or it may have been because he (Kenny) sincerely felt the best way to get them to believe in their own game was to have them playing regularly and there wasn't room to play either of them in the center. Whichever it was I think it was done for the right reasons whether or not the result was positive.

This season Henderson has obviously been working hard in the background as has Downing, but we all realize Downing was bought to deliver crosses to Big Andy and now he seems redundant to many fans but I think he's got something to offer, sure he's said many times he's homesick and must be peed off by travelling over the Pennines every day or so.

If Downing goes good luck to him, I'm sure he will blossom into a great player and we'll be looking at another ex Liverpool player who's making headlines for all the right reasons, but as I said I hope no-one goes.
Er...he's 28 and will NEVER blossom in to a great player. He's mr mid table. Best he will do is do a Pennant for Stoke for a couple of years

Day he goes will be one step back along the road to us having a team that is worthy of the clubs name again. good riddance. No time really for pure confidence players anyway, but with him it's an excuse, no league goals for an attacking player is just dog shit. Rubbish

Utter toss signing and perhaps the weakest player mentally ever to put on a red shirt. I find the bloke utterly intolerable. I can't stand people who hide on the pitch. There is no excuse for it on his wages. Couldnt give a shit about his feelings, he's paid enough not to be so precious. Just get shot of it Brendan, he's a waste of space. There are some players a team is better off without. Could be personality reasons like DIouf or mentality reasons like Downing or ability and fitness issues like Degen. They are a drain on the squad all round
 

RedBaron

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Another classic Rich rant. Downing to Stoke would be good for all parties. We get rid of a plague on our team's morale, Stoke gets a (supposedly) good crosser of the ball, and Stewart gets to play again.

I think our legends team is still in decent shape, though. If you're considering Downing then the likes of Xabi, Garcia, Hyypia, Finnan, Riise, Carra, Gerrard, Torres(debatable), Lucas and Luis
Legends? I'd be very happy with that team at he moment! just add Pepe and Bob's your uncle.
 

lancashirelad

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Er...he's 28 and will NEVER blossom in to a great player. He's mr mid table. Best he will do is do a Pennant for Stoke for a couple of years

Day he goes will be one step back along the road to us having a team that is worthy of the clubs name again. good riddance. No time really for pure confidence players anyway, but with him it's an excuse, no league goals for an attacking player is just dog shit. Rubbish

Utter toss signing and perhaps the weakest player mentally ever to put on a red shirt. I find the bloke utterly intolerable. I can't stand people who hide on the pitch. There is no excuse for it on his wages. Couldnt give a shit about his feelings, he's paid enough not to be so precious. Just get shot of it Brendan, he's a waste of space. There are some players a team is better off without. Could be personality reasons like DIouf or mentality reasons like Downing or ability and fitness issues like Degen. They are a drain on the squad all round
I couldn't disagree more, he's got skill and finesse, this may not be his time with us but he can be a great player, so I, for one, will give him time.
 

indianscouser

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Dont know if that was man management stunt by BR. IF he can keep up with this form, we could reduce our losses. I know people will say that he is finally proving is worth. Could be true, but if his transfer aids us in a world class signing, i really wont bother. Besides, he is playing LB, we can alway push glenno there and play kelly at RB and still play enrique in the wing, if thats what BR wants.
 



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