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Summer Transfer Window

How would you rate our summer transfer window?


  • Total voters
    129

red_scott

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
162
A lot of people don't get that there was work done in the past two windows that wasn't bringing players in or shipping them out. We haven't overpaid on talent since the CHAD debacle and that has made other clubs realize they can't tack on an extra 5 million pounds to a player's price tag just because LFC are interested. We didn't overpay for talent this window and that will set us up to make better buys in the future.

I have seen this argument made a number of times and I see where you are coming from. I agree in theory this is what was being done.
But as has been pointed out, we need a striker and have done for 18 months now. Everyone else knows this as well.

January is traditionally a difficult window to get cheap/value for money targets.

So how can we say we won't get quoted crazy prices then as we will be even more desparate? And who's to say we won't pay them? If we do that then we just undermined all the painful work in the summer, or if we stick to our guns and won't pay inflated prices then we have borini, suarez and morgan leading the line until next summer.

Seems like we cut our nose off to spite our face sometimes.

There has to be financial prudence, but sometimes you need to spend a little more to get the final piece of the puzzle.

Anyway, not overly impressed by the transfer window. I see good and some stupidly bad.
 

OhYaBeauty

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I have seen this argument made a number of times and I see where you are coming from. I agree in theory this is what was being done.
But as has been pointed out, we need a striker and have done for 18 months now. Everyone else knows this as well.

January is traditionally a difficult window to get cheap/value for money targets.

So how can we say we won't get quoted crazy prices then as we will be even more desparate? And who's to say we won't pay them? If we do that then we just undermined all the painful work in the summer, or if we stick to our guns and won't pay inflated prices then we have borini, suarez and morgan leading the line until next summer.

Seems like we cut our nose off to spite our face sometimes.

There has to be financial prudence, but sometimes you need to spend a little more to get the final piece of the puzzle.

Anyway, not overly impressed by the transfer window. I see good and some stupidly bad.
Well the silver lining there is that we can use youth. We've all been clamoring to see our highly rated youth given a chance in the first team. Since we're a bit short on depth up front, we'll likely see Sterling, Suso, Morgan, Ngoo, and Yesil get their cracks at the first team until January. They're all talented lads and hopefully they'll do well with their chances and keep their heads up if they don't.
 

red_scott

TIA Youth Team
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Messages
162
I agree about the youth, OYB.
I'm just not convinced this crushing the liverpool extra tax will lead to what we want this season.

And that really is the question. If we go through this season relying on the kids, do you really think we'll be close to the top 4? There is nothing more than we as fans would like, that Morgan or Yesil bang in 20 goals and become footballing sensations. But if we struggle and end up say below 8th, then it will become harder to persuade a top talent to come, even if we do have the cash.


It's a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.
 
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The biggest miscalculation that FSG have made is that getting a spot in the CL is worth over 30m in itself. And while us being stingy over a few million pretty much eliminated any decent chance we had of finishing 4th place (and thus getting that extra 30 million plus to spend next window) teams like the two Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal/Spurs will have that extra cash to strengthen their squad.
 

OhYaBeauty

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I agree about the youth, OYB.
I'm just not convinced this crushing the liverpool extra tax will lead to what we want this season.

And that really is the question. If we go through this season relying on the kids, do you really think we'll be close to the top 4? There is nothing more than we as fans would like, that Morgan or Yesil bang in 20 goals and become footballing sensations. But if we struggle and end up say below 8th, then it will become harder to persuade a top talent to come, even if we do have the cash.

It's a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.
No. Playing with the kids is not going to get us where we want to go. But I'd argue that we already forfeited our shot at fourth place this season when we failed to sign a forward on deadline day. But the past is the past, we didn't sign a forward, we probably lost out on fourth already, and I'm trying to be optimistic in saying that I'm excited to see what the younguns can do.
 

red_scott

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Oct 13, 2010
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You're talking too much sense, mate. :)

I know realistically 4th was always a long shot, but we all dream at the season's start. To have that dream taken away after a failure in the transfer market after only 4 ganes still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Do hope one of the young strikers becomes red hot. That plus Sterling would be quite a forward step though.
 

OhYaBeauty

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You're talking too much sense, mate. :)

I know realistically 4th was always a long shot, but we all dream at the season's start. To have that dream taken away after a failure in the transfer market after only 4 ganes still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Do hope one of the young strikers becomes red hot. That plus Sterling would be quite a forward step though.
 

TRU-RED

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Main problem last season was lack of goals.. Main problem this season looks like lack of goals..
 

Red Armada

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Well, yeah it was...

Aurelio, Kuyt, and Maxi were very much reduced role players last year. Kuyt and Maxi were also on the receiving end of Kenny's ire (it seemed, considering their repeated dropping from the squad) and both players wanted a move away. Bellamy, after a strong start, saw his knees catch up to him and saw him featuring more as an occasional sub. (Spearing and Adam featured more - primarily through injury to Lucas, and the notion of playing Henderson on the right - but were "Kenny" type players, and have been replaced by Allen and Sahin.)

Carroll was a head scratcher, from start to finish. Shouldn't have signed him in the first place, but we did. We then inexplicably would play him sparingly even when he did get his fitness back. Started finding his feet towards the end of last season, but even then wasn't really demonstrating that he was a top class striker, just a younger version of Grant Holt (who outscored him handily last year). There's no denying that there was a massive cock up at Melwood though, with letting him go and not bringing in a replacement. Either we were far too arrogant about landing Dempsey, or the ball was dropped along the way somewhere, but letting Carroll leave BEFORE someone else came in was stupidity of the highest order. (Personally point the finger at Ayre for this, who seems to have gone to the same training programme as Parry and Purslow in terms of stupidity in the transfer market)
If by fringe you are referring strictly to regular non starters then yes Kuyt and the rest can be classified as such. But in terms of experience, importance and football value they were anything but fringe players.

In any case my point is that regardless of their status these players were not replaced. We shipped out four attacking players and we brought in only two.

As far as Ayre goes, i presume that every Liverpool fan is in agreement. The sooner he is replaced the better.
 

DeathOrGlory

Fortune Favours the Gegenpress
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Everyone blames Commoli for the 2011 CHAD debacle. Now many are starting to blame Ayre for the 2012 non event.

What reasons can any of the fans here give for giving Ayre the boot? No one knows the inside details of what went down on that day, only select pieces of information that have been handed out to us fans.

I know as humans we all want someone to blame. But seriously, does someone really need to lose his job over everything that goes wrong? We have gotten rid of enough people here, lets keep someone for more than a year.

I don't see getting rid of Ayre as the solution to our problems. For all we know he's doing a great job managing all the other stuff behind the scenes that no one sees in the background.


So no, verde, not every liverpool fan is in agreement.
 

lfc.eddie

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Everyone blames Commoli for the 2011 CHAD debacle. Now many are starting to blame Ayre for the 2012 non event.

What reasons can any of the fans here give for giving Ayre the boot? No one knows the inside details of what went down on that day, only select pieces of information that have been handed out to us fans.
Wait, I think even the owners blamed Comolli for the big money British buys. If these dudes aren't to be blamed, then we fans are the one that shoulder them? Or should we shift to the manager or perhaps the agents who asked for too much money for their player that they value as a client? So how does that work?

If shit happens, someone's head has to roll. It always start from the top. If the owners can be sacked, I think the fans would have called for their resignation letter right this minute.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Wait, I think even the owners blamed Comolli for the big money British buys. If these dudes aren't to be blamed, then we fans are the one that shoulder them? Or should we shift to the manager or perhaps the agents who asked for too much money for their player that they value as a client? So how does that work?

If shit happens, someone's head has to roll. It always start from the top. If the owners can be sacked, I think the fans would have called for their resignation letter right this minute.
I wouldn't. Its hard to find good (or even decent) owners in football. Look at Everton, they've been struggling to find a new owner (any kind of investment, really) for years and they're a club with a lot of upside to sell. If we called for their resignation we'd be endorsing the signing of new owners who could be just as bad as H&G, Venky's, Mike Ashley, or those blokes that screwed Malaga.
 

Arminius

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Everyone blames Commoli for the 2011 CHAD debacle. Now many are starting to blame Ayre for the 2012 non event.

What reasons can any of the fans here give for giving Ayre the boot? No one knows the inside details of what went down on that day, only select pieces of information that have been handed out to us fans.
Reading between the lines, it appears to me that Rodgers believed that a deal was closer than it turned out to be. I find it hard to believe that the overall budget was not clearly communicated to Ayre and Rodgers, regardless of the fact that I am quite willing to criticize FSG for adhering to it rigidly to a fault. Rodgers clearly acted to move his squad numbers to conform to some kind of management target, and appeared confident of something comign to fruition the day before the deadline. Again, some blame attached to him for that. But the breakdown clearly occurred in the confidence level that Rodgers was given over at least one deal, and I think one way or another Ayre has to wear that.
 

DeathOrGlory

Fortune Favours the Gegenpress
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Reading between the lines, it appears to me that Rodgers believed that a deal was closer than it turned out to be. I find it hard to believe that the overall budget was not clearly communicated to Ayre and Rodgers, regardless of the fact that I am quite willing to criticize FSG for adhering to it rigidly to a fault. Rodgers clearly acted to move his squad numbers to conform to some kind of management target, and appeared confident of something comign to fruition the day before the deadline. Again, some blame attached to him for that. But the breakdown clearly occurred in the confidence level that Rodgers was given over at least one deal, and I think one way or another Ayre has to wear that.
Good points. I agree that what happened is most likely a breakdown that several parties have to take blame for.

Especially the rigidness that we adhered to regarding Dempsey. When you've got next to no regular goalscorers, and it's deadline day, I don't see how you can stick to a strict purchasing policy like we did. It's very disturbing that there's people in charge of the club who think like this.
 

Red Armada

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Everyone blames Commoli for the 2011 CHAD debacle. Now many are starting to blame Ayre for the 2012 non event.

What reasons can any of the fans here give for giving Ayre the boot? No one knows the inside details of what went down on that day, only select pieces of information that have been handed out to us fans.

I know as humans we all want someone to blame. But seriously, does someone really need to lose his job over everything that goes wrong? We have gotten rid of enough people here, lets keep someone for more than a year.

I don't see getting rid of Ayre as the solution to our problems. For all we know he's doing a great job managing all the other stuff behind the scenes that no one sees in the background.


So no, verde, not every liverpool fan is in agreement.
Are you really satisfied with Ayre as MD ? It's true that we aren't aware of everything that happens behind the scenes, but what does come to light is hardly positive about Ayre.

Honestly i can't think of anything noteworthy that Ayre has done as managing director.
 

DeathOrGlory

Fortune Favours the Gegenpress
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Are you really satisfied with Ayre as MD ? It's true that we aren't aware of everything that happens behind the scenes, but what does come to light is hardly positive about Ayre.

Honestly i can't think of anything noteworthy that Ayre has done as managing director.
Neither can I. Because what he does is all behind the scenes.
 

King Aldo

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Clearly a breakdown in communications between owners, MD and BR ... somewhere along the lines the message about budget versus player values got blurred and priorities were not clear to everyone. This is strike 1 (apropos don't you think? :)

Strike 2 is how ridiculous they made the club look in the transfer market again, by clearly undermining the manager in front of the entire world and by failing to secure a player they had stated they wanted to secure weeks earlier.

Strike 3 is that by getting rid of Carroll, Adam and by benching Hendo and Downing they were effectively writing down nearly all of the £100m they spent on those players. There was no need to do that - Carroll was improving and could have been kept here to fulfill a backup role. I've never seen such a cack-handed way of devaluing your own assets as the club demonstrated this year. I think this shambles of a transfer window has set the club back at least 1 year.
 

REDSkins

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Some great posts in here. I Voted 4.

In terms of players in/out, I give it a 6.

But it gets docked 2 points for making our manager and club look like a pack of buffoons, and for the overall negative effect it gives both our players and our supporters at Anfield. These owners seem to forget about the concept of "mood' and "the 12th man" -- the supporters who can lift our players. The pessimism during the Arsenal match was obvious. How FSG can be amazingly impressed by Rodgers, yet not trust his judgment on signing Dempsey, I can't understand.

In our case, suarez is playing the messi role and Borini is meant to play the Eto role and provide pace as a plan B.
I don't really think Borini is all that pacy. Quicker than Kuyt, but at this time, I think Shane Long is a superior player. Same work rate but with more pace. Borini has great technique but is never going to twist defenders like Sterling or Sinclair types. I'm excited about Assaidi, though.

their demand that someone with 'last call' decision-making power needs to be Liverpool-based appears to be bang on.
Snippet from a fantastic post. For me, the ENTIRE Andy Carroll affair, from start to finish, highlights this. When we realized Andy was gonna cost 35m, someone on the ground should have said "wait a second...." But the story seems to be that because John Henry said "Torres + 15m," that became the final decision and there was no time on deadline day to call up Boston to find out if we should still pull the trigger. This same disconnect occurred with ditching Carroll and then not having someone there to say "listen Tom Werner, we had to bite the bullet on Dempsey because to not bring him in would've have a huge ripple effect."

Those of you who say "we'll never overpay again" because of it, I just dont get it. You really think we won't have to overpay this coming January? Or even next summer, when every club in Europe knows we are desperate for a striker?

The last 3 transfer windows have been dry all across Europe. PSG (and previously Malaga) are the exceptions. But there has been very little movement between clubs, for first XI players. Dempsey wasn't gonna be our saviour, but he wanted to come and was a proven player. What makes us think we'll find better opportunities the next 2 windows? These guys are treating this like baseball, where a signing is an individual. It's a team game and I dont think Werner and Henry realized just how important bringing in ANY striker over age 20 was going to be for both the squad and for the fans.

I like the idea of young players, but you get the feeling that if David Villa was offered to us, they'd cap the fee at 3 mil. John Henry knows how pissed the fans are (im sure Jen was shaking his head), or else he'd not have written that open letter, but I was not happy with his letter as it doesn't seem like they've learned anything.

Dortmund won a title with a young team. Blackburn Rovers got relegated with one. They need to keep perspective & find better advisers.

the loan of sahin might be a decent bit of business, although from what ive seen so far it might be just a bit of exercise for him.
I'm a bit nervous about this too. Not sure he'll display the same hunger he did in Germany. Hopefully Mourinho will text him and tell him he'll need to make an impact here or he can forget about a future in Madrid. At the least, he can at least help Yesil settle in. I'm very happy with that signing.
 

ChicagoRed

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Strike 3 is that by getting rid of Carroll, Adam and by benching Hendo and Downing they were effectively writing down nearly all of the £100m they spent on those players. There was no need to do that - Carroll was improving and could have been kept here to fulfill a backup role. I've never seen such a cack-handed way of devaluing your own assets as the club demonstrated this year. I think this shambles of a transfer window has set the club back at least 1 year.
I think with the exception of Carroll, most of us are happy with what happend to the other players you brought up here.
I'm perfectly happy that Sterling is playing above Downing, that we sold Adam and that Allen, Sahin, and Shelvey are all above Henderson. I think those players not being Liverpool quality have more to do with devaluing what their worth and being bad players than Rodgers choosing to play other players.
 

kenno91

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Just watching the chelsea juventus game on setanta ireland and david fairclough just said that he heard that liverpool tried really hard to get torres back to liverpool in the transfer window and that there were talks going on behind the scenes that fell apart near the end of the window

Thats very surprising if true. What do you think about that if true?
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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I don't have much problem with Ayre's transfer record. Aside from the farcical last day of the window - which as far as anyone knows could be as much due to the owners as Ayre - we didn't do too badly. We took our time tying up the deals but that's as much due to the impression that we are set touches in the market, and the need to play hardball on negotiations.

Where I think the question marks exist on Ayre is acting as a leader at the club. His contribution to the Suarez affair - or lack of it - was a disgrace. I think this is where Ayre is lacking and he is perhaps out of his depth.

I don't understand what people want to him to achieve in the market. We are a mid-table club with fading appeal facing a lengthy rebuild. We're not going to be signing Messi.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Just watching the chelsea juventus game on setanta ireland and david fairclough just said that he heard that liverpool tried really hard to get torres back to liverpool in the transfer window and that there were talks going on behind the scenes that fell apart near the end of the window

Thats very surprising if true. What do you think about that if true?
What I heard is that some influential member of the dressing room (my guess would be Stevie) approached Comolli and asked for him to bring Torres back mid spring, at which point Comolli approached the owners and asked for funds to make the move. But Comolli was fired so it never happened.


Liverpool: Comolli Considered Torres Return

According to a report, former director of football strategy Damien Comolli was considering a move to return Fernando Torres to Liverpool when he was sacked…

An online article published by the Daily Mail has sensationally claimed Liverpool were seriously thinking of making an attempt to resign striker Fernando Torres from Chelsea this past summer.

The story suggests Damien Comolli was investigating the possibility before he got the sack back in April. His interest is said to have spiked when a 'prominent member of the Liverpool dressing room knocked on the door to his office and pleaded with him to investigate the proposition.'

Torres was sold to the Londoners in January 2011 for £50m after becoming disillusioned with the lack of competitiveness and constant managerial changes at Anfield.

The 28-year-old was a prolific scorer during his time on Merseyside with 81 goals in 142 appearances but, despite helping the Blues to Champions League glory last season, has subsequently endured a difficult period in the capital.

The Spaniard managed only 11 goals in 49 appearances last term, including a period between the 19th October 2011 and 18th March 2012 - a total of 25 hours and 40 minutes playing time - in which he failed to find the net at all.

Immediately after lifting the European trophy in May, Torres expressed his unhappiness at Stamford Bridge in a candid interview with journalist Guillem Balague, saying: "This season I have felt things that I never had before. I've felt like they treated me in a way that I didn't expect. Not in the way that was spoken of when they signed me. We've had a lot of talks and we'll talk about my future."

Part of the reason for Comolli investigating the possibility of Torres returning to Liverpool, according to the article's author Neil Ashton, was the thinking that his presence could help Luis Suarez be more prolific.

'The Liverpool way suited the Spain striker and at least one player in that dressing room said Luis Suarez would benefit if they could be paired together,' claims Ashton.

Comolli allegedly saw Suarez as a second striker as opposed to the focal point of an attack and worked on a rule of thumb whereby 'with the exception of Ruud van Nistelrooy, strikers imported from Holland only score around a third of the goals in the Premier League.'

This notion certainly does appear to have some foundation from a Liverpool perspective when evaluating the stats to date for Suarez and, before him, fellow Dutch Eredivisie recruit Dirk Kuyt.

The Uruguayan scored 81 times in 110 league appearances at Ajax but has a far less prolific 17 in 48 appearances so far in the Premier League.

Kuyt meanwhile, who departed the club for Fenerbahce in July, registered 71 strikes in 101 league appearances for Feyenoord whereas in England he found the net on only 51 occasions despite making 208 Premiership appearances. This was in part caused by the Holland international frequently being utilised as a winger however.

Ultimately Comolli was relieved of his duties before he could see the idea of buying back Torres through to a conclusion.

The 39-year-old Frenchman paid the price for the expensive sanctioning of underachieving signings Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing and Jordan Henderson.

The trio cost in excess of £70m combined but could only help the Reds to an eighth place finish last term; a fact that also accounted for the end to manager Kenny Dalglish's second reign at the Anfield helm.

Vital Verdict

Even if he had remained at the club, and this report is accurate, it would have been difficult for Comolli to convince Fenway Sports Group (the owners) to part with the amount of money needed to reacquire Torres. The recent transfer window saw outlays down and a number of high earners removed from the books as John W Henry and co continue to attempt to make the club a sustainable business in line with UEFA's Financial Fair Play Regulations. Our need for a striker is well documented and I think most fans would love to see El Niño return, even though he did leave under a slight cloud. Chelsea will also need to purchase other strikers before a transfer could become remotely feasible in the future as Torres is currently their first and, bar perhaps Daniel Sturridge, only striking choice after the departure of Didier Drogba. Even then financially it might well be beyond the club's new prudent approach.
 

ChicagoRed

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I don't have much problem with Ayre's transfer record. Aside from the farcical last day of the window - which as far as anyone knows could be as much due to the owners as Ayre - we didn't do too badly. We took our time tying up the deals but that's as much due to the impression that we are set touches in the market, and the need to play hardball on negotiations.

Where I think the question marks exist on Ayre is acting as a leader at the club. His contribution to the Suarez affair - or lack of it - was a disgrace. I think this is where Ayre is lacking and he is perhaps out of his depth.

I don't understand what people want to him to achieve in the market. We are a mid-table club with fading appeal facing a lengthy rebuild. We're not going to be signing Messi.
With the exception for Kenny, everyones contribuiton to the Suarez affair was a disgrace.
 

RedSeven

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What I heard is that some influential member of the dressing room (my guess would be Stevie) approached Comolli and asked for him to bring Torres back mid spring, at which point Comolli approached the owners and asked for funds to make the move. But Comolli was fired so it never happened.
I find this intresting if true.If it's a player we are talking about why didn't they approach kenny if he was the one who brought in new players.Unless of coarse if it was kenny who approached commolli.
 

ChicagoRed

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I find this intresting if true.If it's a player we are talking about why didn't they approach kenny if he was the one who brought in new players.Unless of coarse if it was kenny who approached commolli.
If it were Kenny it would have said manager and not dressing room member. This story is made up just like most other transfer nonsense from the internet. We are not even talking about whether Chelsea would want to sell, and if Torres would even want to come back. This is total crap.
 

RedSeven

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If it were Kenny it would have said manager and not dressing room member. This story is made up just like most other transfer nonsense from the internet. We are not even talking about whether Chelsea would want to sell, and if Torres would even want to come back. This is total crap.
I thought it came from an interview.probably right about it being made up then
 

hugo the horrible

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Just out of curiosity, how would you now rate last years summer window? Every team has gotten stronger than us this year? Allen and Sahin alone make us stronger than last year.

4 games into the season and we are already out of the top 4? Brilliant. Worst start in 100 years, nevermind who we play in the first 5 league games I guess.
Early on last year like about now we were up near the top, now we are down near the bottom, hope we don't stay there,but importantly we had more depth last season,even if it wasn't brilliant in everyones eyes,this time we are an injury away from deep shit-possibly.And I'm talking about goal scoring, but then we are not doing a lot of that yet, anyway.