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The attack - what's the answer?



Incognito

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I was wondering if Klopp has been using the 4-2-3-1 often this season to provide the defensive stability and for us to have a different approach which probably helped us win against the lesser teams quite easily in the first half of the season, can't the same be used by tweaking and having Salah on right and Bobby upfront? When it comes to goal scoring abilities, and interplay inside the box, I believe Bobby would be far more lethal than Salah. Even last season (or previous) I presume, when Firmino played on the left at times, we always wondered why Klopp wasn't playing him more central where he was the most dangerous.

The reason till now probably was there was no one to drive the ball forwards and hence Bobby had to do that work. But now with Keita playing more regularly, Salah's pace down the right might provide something different as our goals have dried up a bit. We can still have the 2 midfielders Fab and Gini/ Hendo at the base and have a much fluid front line.
 

Claymenza

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I was wondering if Klopp has been using the 4-2-3-1 often this season to provide the defensive stability and for us to have a different approach which probably helped us win against the lesser teams quite easily in the first half of the season, can't the same be used by tweaking and having Salah on right and Bobby upfront? When it comes to goal scoring abilities, and interplay inside the box, I believe Bobby would be far more lethal than Salah. Even last season (or previous) I presume, when Firmino played on the left at times, we always wondered why Klopp wasn't playing him more central where he was the most dangerous.

The reason till now probably was there was no one to drive the ball forwards and hence Bobby had to do that work. But now with Keita playing more regularly, Salah's pace down the right might provide something different as our goals have dried up a bit. We can still have the 2 midfielders Fab and Gini/ Hendo at the base and have a much fluid front line.
I like how fabinho and keita have some skill on the ball to carry it forward, even if the passing lanes are clogged.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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@Incognito "believe Bobby would be far more lethal than Salah..."

So far this season Salah has scored 5 and assisted 2 in 17 games on the right. He's scored 14 and assisted 8 in 16 games in the centre. I wouldn't be playing him anywhere but Central.
 



Incognito

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@Incognito "believe Bobby would be far more lethal than Salah..."

So far this season Salah has scored 5 and assisted 2 in 17 games on the right. He's scored 14 and assisted 8 in 16 games in the centre. I wouldn't be playing him anywhere but Central.
That's an interesting stat. Didn't know he has already played 17 games on the right this season. But again those were against the top 6 sides when we were playing 4-3-3 right? Another factor could be no one to provide when he's on the right, whereas he getting into lot more goal scoring opportunities when in center. Interesting stat to know would be how many goals in all we have scored when he's on right. If that number itself is low then above stat would become proportional.

My concern is more regarding Bobby than Salah. When he's dropping too deep there's no one to make those small triangles, flicks etc to break down a bus and he in recent days look way out of touch dropping deep.
 

Limiescouse

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I was wondering if Klopp has been using the 4-2-3-1 often this season to provide the defensive stability and for us to have a different approach
The geggenpress has traditionally been Klopp's main play maker. When the opposition has little of the ball and does not commit players forward when they do have it then you have nothing to press and no transition to try and take advantage of. The result is you then need your players to create for you. The 4-2-3-1 gets another attacking player on the pitch and so can better combat the way teams are playing us this season in the league. You will note that against the better sides we have often gone to the 4-3-3, and that is in large part because Klopp views it as the better "pressing formation" and know those are the games in which we are potentially able to hurt the opposition with the counterpress.
 

santana

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salah in front seems to be the striker .. right ?
wrong !
he is in front the play maker so who is the striker ?
the striker is the line behind salah which contains firmino mane and shaq or kieta !
long time ago i told you to bring lemar or rabiot but now liverpool must bring the king of magic pass ., ozil !
and i want to say something when gomez and trent not there you must not put milner there because you make midfield weak and not strength defend line so bring camacho and leave milner in his position !
 

Mascot88

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salah in front seems to be the striker .. right ?
wrong !
he is in front the play maker so who is the striker ?
the striker is the line behind salah which contains firmino mane and shaq or kieta !
long time ago i told you to bring lemar or rabiot but now liverpool must bring the king of magic pass ., ozil !
and i want to say something when gomez and trent not there you must not put milner there because you make midfield weak and not strength defend line so bring camacho and leave milner in his position !
There is more chance of Klopp signing Balotelli than there is Ozil. The lad wouldn’t run if his arse was on fire.
 



SBYM

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Fucking great thread, this...
 

Red Eyes

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Ray Houghton made a fair point when he was asked about problems with the front three. They were talking initially about them being ineffective versus a United but he expanded it out.

He said that he doesn’t have an issue with the front three, they are pretty much doing their job of scoring goals. Those three have scored 44 of our 68 goals.

He has issues with the rest of the team, particularly the defence. In his title winning side defenders used to chip in with a decent number of goals per season, particularly the big CBs coming up for corners.

According to our stats page, this season Virgil has 1, TAA has 1, Matip has 1, Lovren has 1, while Robertson isn’t shown as scoring any (but I thought he had scored). This is pretty poor, and it surprised me a little how few goals our defenders have scored.

Midfield is t too much better. Fabinho has 1, Wini has 2, though Milner and Powercube are better with 6 and 5 respectively.

Thought it was an interesting observation.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Ray Houghton made a fair point when he was asked about problems with the front three. They were talking initially about them being ineffective versus a United but he expanded it out.

He said that he doesn’t have an issue with the front three, they are pretty much doing their job of scoring goals. Those three have scored 44 of our 68 goals.

He has issues with the rest of the team, particularly the defence. In his title winning side defenders used to chip in with a decent number of goals per season, particularly the big CBs coming up for corners.

According to our stats page, this season Virgil has 1, TAA has 1, Matip has 1, Lovren has 1, while Robertson isn’t shown as scoring any (but I thought he had scored). This is pretty poor, and it surprised me a little how few goals our defenders have scored.

Midfield is t too much better. Fabinho has 1, Wini has 2, though Milner and Powercube are better with 6 and 5 respectively.

Thought it was an interesting observation.
Somebody paid attention!
 

Nikola

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I was thinking lately about Liverpool's attack and the more I see of it, the more I think that Keita and Firmino in particular hold the key to unlocking its full potential. Sure, their all-round style makes them crucial to Klopp's desire to implement a certain style of play but it's obviously the attacking third where they have the most influence.

Keita should become the player who provides runs from midfield with and without the ball, especially when Liverpool are trying to break down a defence, also a player who has the technical ability to thread a pass to Liverpool's wide players and fullbacks. Firmino has otherworldly work rate and game intelligence, even if his touch can let him down at times.

If we ever see these two play together when they are both on form, I think we'll see the best football any Liverpool side have produced since they last won the title. We'll see if that happens this season, they've both has fitness issues recently, just as Keita was starting to find his groove. With Salah getting more and more attention from opponents' defences, I would like to see Liverpool players making the most out of it, Keita and Firmino have that quality and speed of thought to make it happen, just a bit self-confidence and consistency is needed from them.
 



The Infamous

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I was thinking lately about Liverpool's attack and the more I see of it, the more I think that Keita and Firmino in particular hold the key to unlocking its full potential. Sure, their all-round style makes them crucial to Klopp's desire to implement a certain style of play but it's obviously the attacking third where they have the most influence.

Keita should become the player who provides runs from midfield with and without the ball, especially when Liverpool are trying to break down a defence, also a player who has the technical ability to thread a pass to Liverpool's wide players and fullbacks. Firmino has otherworldly work rate and game intelligence, even if his touch can let him down at times.

If we ever see these two play together when they are both on form, I think we'll see the best football any Liverpool side have produced since they last won the title. We'll see if that happens this season, they've both has fitness issues recently, just as Keita was starting to find his groove. With Salah getting more and more attention from opponents' defences, I would like to see Liverpool players making the most out of it, Keita and Firmino have that quality and speed of thought to make it happen, just a bit self-confidence and consistency is needed from them.
Yeah Keita is the key. His dribbling is only rivalled by Mane and Salah. His long range shooting and passing was well know at Leipzig. He can and should make the difference before the end of the season. I was so shocked that he didn’t start against Utd. I would have loved it imagine Keita running at non tracking back Pogba and walking red card Herrera. I would start him in the Champions League game. Maybe off the bench tomorrow. Go with Milner or Hendo for the derby. Can’t wait for the Ox like the last poster said his shooting has been missed.
 

santana

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football is a brain game like chess and liverpool is a superteam but without confidence and without champion's spirit so how to create confidence ?
if you ask the players to play without thinking of winning or trophy they will smash any team but thinking of trophy make them panic and make mistake !
 

Claymenza

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Shot from distance. We need that as an option, an option we've not had since the departure of that small Brazilian and injury to Oxlade Chamberlain.
I agree with the idea. Some teams may pack the defensive third so we could use a few planned long range shots to switch it up a bit.
Origi was listening. Sturridge is also a decent long distance shooter.

Not saying they are the answers, but firmino/salah/mane are such good dribblers that they prefer to pass and play into the box.
 

flyingkuyt

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The reason Shaq is not playing is so clear to me...

Before the first Bayern game he did a press conference and said how much he missed Bayern and was hoping to go back some day. Up until that point he was in the mix.

But to show his allegiance to another team is totally against Klopp's- all- for- Liverpool approach.

I get the impression Shaq wants to prove himself, but once there, he takes it easy. There have been complaints about his attitude at every club. He made the grade at LFC then fell away. His starter stats fell away markedly, when as a sub he was awesome. Shame but some players can't keep up the motivation. two bobs..:)
 



Zinedine Biscan

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The reason Shaq is not playing is so clear to me...

Before the first Bayern game he did a press conference and said how much he missed Bayern and was hoping to go back some day. Up until that point he was in the mix.

But to show his allegiance to another team is totally against Klopp's- all- for- Liverpool approach.

I get the impression Shaq wants to prove himself, but once there, he takes it easy. There have been complaints about his attitude at every club. He made the grade at LFC then fell away. His starter stats fell away markedly, when as a sub he was awesome. Shame but some players can't keep up the motivation. two bobs..:)
Could you link to the interview you're referring to? I'd be surprised if it was as you said, considering at the time he was trying to engineer a move to Liverpool only for Bayern to block it.
 

flyingkuyt

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'A return to Bayern is totally imaginable for me, because I always carry Bayern in my heart. Would they call me again, that would be interesting and emotional for me.' -Shaqiri
Hasn't played since.....
 

Zinedine Biscan

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'A return to Bayern is totally imaginable for me, because I always carry Bayern in my heart. Would they call me again, that would be interesting and emotional for me.' -Shaqiri
Hasn't played since.....
But in the same quote goes on to say: "At the present time, however, a return is inconceivable. Right now I am, in my view, at the perfect club and under the perfect leadership. "

I don't think that's the reason. There's a piece today on the Echo about it that concludes Klopp has just opted for more control in the centre at this critical juncture of the season (we're out of lives, basically) than Shaqiri can offer. Combined with his decreasing performances since the high of the United game, and I don't think it really goes further than that. Klopp also mentioned niggling injuries a couple of times.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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But in the same quote goes on to say: "At the present time, however, a return is inconceivable. Right now I am, in my view, at the perfect club and under the perfect leadership. "

I don't think that's the reason. There's a piece today on the Echo about it that concludes Klopp has just opted for more control in the centre at this critical juncture of the season (we're out of lives, basically) than Shaqiri can offer. Combined with his decreasing performances since the high of the United game, and I don't think it really goes further than that. Klopp also mentioned niggling injuries a couple of times.
Yeah. Think he's been injured on and off a lot in 2019. He's also been less effective when he has played recently. We've also reverted back to 433 instead of the 4231 he mostly got used in anyway.
 



indianscouser

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The last 5 games, we have created so much chances, our conversion is poor.
I think we need our midfielders to chip in a few during open play.
Fabinho, wijnaldum all had good chances Which were not taken.
With the way we play, the mid is just to shield the cb and give our wing backs all the license to bomb forward.
If one of our 3 midfelders can score ocassionaly, it would reduce the pressure from then front 3.
 

SirBillShankly

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I think we could benefit by shuffling the lads around, in particular Mo. He's being double marked in most of our games and when he does manage to wriggle free everyone knows what he's gonna do.

I'm thinking we could move Salah centrally and Mane back on the right.

Something like

....................... .....Firmino...................
....Keita/Shaqiri.........Salah.........Mane