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The attack - what's the answer?



YeGra

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Jun 22, 2017
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Xabi Alonso was the master in controlling the pace of the game, I still miss him very much. Having his vision in our current side would create absolute havoc with the attacking line we have. Our lads in midfield need to take a leaf or two from him. If Coutinho is indeed groomed into a central midfielder this season as it seems, then he certainly has the potential to play that role imo.
Alonso was such a huge loss. A brilliant player and no coincidence why we went from 2nd to 7th so suddenly.

Speaking of your "rushed passes comments", I felt Coutinho was doing that a lot as well against Burnley. He was trying to make the pass so quickly and it was just always falling to a Burnley player or when he shot it would go way wide of the mark.

He needs to gel back into the team again but his inconsistency again reinforces my belief he's just not world class yet. On his day he's amazing but when he has an off day he's extremely frustrating to watch.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
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Alonso was such a huge loss. A brilliant player and no coincidence why we went from 2nd to 7th so suddenly.

Speaking of your "rushed passes comments", I felt Coutinho was doing that a lot as well against Burnley. He was trying to make the pass so quickly and it was just always falling to a Burnley player or when he shot it would go way wide of the mark.

He needs to gel back into the team again but his inconsistency again reinforces my belief he's just not world class yet. On his day he's amazing but when he has an off day he's extremely frustrating to watch.
That's right. But I think he can be groomed into such a position. He has the technical quality and the eye for a pass. Whether that will be the case remains to be seen of course.
 

Billy Biskix

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To give a serious response on this.

I think we have too many going forward. If you look at games where we have loads of shots most of them are half chances. It often occurs after a series of short pointless passes and then someone decides to take a shot from distance.

Teams park the bus against us as we have so many camped in their half. It becomes very congested hence all the short pointless passes.

The less men your pour forward the less the opposition sit back and camp in their own half. So if we had two sitting midfielders and two full backs that didn't play like wingers we would be much more solid defensively with six men back, the opposition would come out behind their parked bus, which would result in us having more space for the most devastating frontline in the league, Mane, Salah, Firmino and Coutinho, to do the damage. They are direct and thrive in space, the way we play doesn't afford them such space...except against top teams when we do sit back more hence our record against them is so good. We can press when the opposition come into our half, then kill them with the attacking players we have. That Mane goal against Arsenal...we are probably the only team in the league capable of doing that.

All in all the balance is wrong. It's too top heavy in attack, congested, becomes ponderous, harder to carve open a good chance, and at the same time with so many forward we are exposed in defence and gift the opposition easy chances. It's why we often have the statistic: 70% possession, 30 shots....opposition 6 shots....result 1-1. By overloading in attack we make it harder for ourselves to score goals and easier for the opposition to score. It's happened time and time and time again under Klopp.
I think the points made here are more relevant to what we saw last season against teams that sat deep when we dominated possession without creating anything other than the occasional pot shot.

I really don't think that if we sat deeper we'd draw teams out. If anything games would just be more sterile. Most teams have limited ambition when it comes to playing LFC. Arsenal is a poor example because they're a team who wouldn't sit deep regardless of how the opposition set up.

Our movement in the final third this season is excellent. Far better than at any time under Klopp. If anything carving out good openings has become so easy for this team that they've become complacent about scoring i.e. we don't need to worry about missing that last chance because another one will be along in a minute. Before you know it the 90 minutes are up and we've scored one goal or even none at all. The only problem in attack is the finishing, or more precisely, making the right decision when an opening presents itself. We are getting in behind teams regardless of how they've set up. So many times we don't choose the right option, mainly through selfishness of individual players. We are not clinical or ruthless enough. First half against Leicester was a classic example of that. Has there even been a more one-sided half of football between two PL teams? If there has been I haven't seen it. Chance after chance going begging.

I'd like to see two solid banks of four when we're not in possession too, but what you're describing there isn't Klopp so we need to understand what he's doing and get behind it. I think he's tried to solve the issue of lack of pace (not just physical pace, but movement of the ball) in attack (which killed us without Mane last season) and he's been relatively successful there. Sublime approach play, undermined by poor finishing so far but there will be times when we absolutely destroy teams.

On the point about whether our attack undermines our defence, yes agree to an extent but I think the Klopp ideal has players like Keita and VVD doing the mopping up. Players with pace, composure and aggression. Trouble is he hasn't got those players yet and the ones he does have defensively just can't do the job he needs them to do. Will he compromise in the short term? I hope he does, only because I want to see the Klopp ideal realised in the longer term. If it comes off it will be awesome.
 



K

Klopptinho

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my idea for solving the attack would be put the attack in defence .. no way is there that once they receive the ball in the box that they will inadvertently pass to someone else .. put our defence in the oppositions box .. because they are very good at creating chances and are used to the ball going in the back of the net .. job done ? lol plus the midfielders work harder to help out our attackers.. so with the attackers in defence.. that should really help us not concede stupid goals .
 
K

Klopptinho

Guest
I think the points made here are more relevant to what we saw last season against teams that sat deep when we dominated possession without creating anything other than the occasional pot shot.

I really don't think that if we sat deeper we'd draw teams out. If anything games would just be more sterile. Most teams have limited ambition when it comes to playing LFC
. Arsenal is a poor example because they're a team who wouldn't sit deep regardless of how the opposition set up.

Our movement in the final third this season is excellent. Far better than at any time under Klopp. If anything carving out good openings has become so easy for this team that they've become complacent about scoring i.e. we don't need to worry about missing that last chance because another one will be along in a minute. Before you know it the 90 minutes are up and we've scored one goal or even none at all. The only problem in attack is the finishing, or more precisely, making the right decision when an opening presents itself. We are getting in behind teams regardless of how they've set up. So many times we don't choose the right option, mainly through selfishness of individual players. We are not clinical or ruthless enough. First half against Leicester was a classic example of that. Has there even been a more one-sided half of football between two PL teams? If there has been I haven't seen it. Chance after chance going begging.

I'd like to see two solid banks of four when we're not in possession too, but what you're describing there isn't Klopp so we need to understand what he's doing and get behind it. I think he's tried to solve the issue of lack of pace (not just physical pace, but movement of the ball) in attack (which killed us without Mane last season) and he's been relatively successful there. Sublime approach play, undermined by poor finishing so far but there will be times when we absolutely destroy teams.

On the point about whether our attack undermines our defence, yes agree to an extent but I think the Klopp ideal has players like Keita and VVD doing the mopping up. Players with pace, composure and aggression. Trouble is he hasn't got those players yet and the ones he does have defensively just can't do the job he needs them to do. Will he compromise in the short term? I hope he does, only because I want to see the Klopp ideal realised in the longer term. If it comes off it will be awesome.
someone said the other day about we need to play more defensive .. and i said . playing defensive against park the bus teams.. will just mean we stay in our half of the pitch and they stay in theirs .. they come for a point and 3 if they can hit us on the break .. no way would they ever come out to play. i know it was a friendly against barca.. but they came out to play.. and we kicked their asses. that probably went against us and we didn't consider it .. but we scared the hell out of premier league teams .
 

Alright Now

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someone said the other day about we need to play more defensive .. and i said . playing defensive against park the bus teams.. will just mean we stay in our half of the pitch and they stay in theirs .. they come for a point and 3 if they can hit us on the break .. no way would they ever come out to play. i know it was a friendly against barca.. but they came out to play.. and we kicked their asses. that probably went against us and we didn't consider it .. but we scared the hell out of premier league teams .
Are you now planning to rewrite everything you've written a few days before?
 

YeGra

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my idea for solving the attack would be put the attack in defence .. no way is there that once they receive the ball in the box that they will inadvertently pass to someone else .. put our defence in the oppositions box .. because they are very good at creating chances and are used to the ball going in the back of the net .. job done ? lol plus the midfielders work harder to help out our attackers.. so with the attackers in defence.. that should really help us not concede stupid goals .
That plan...it's just so... beautiful
 



hugo the horrible

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It is early days yet,players need to become accustomed to each others game,in matches,and that hasn't happened yet.
I'm a great believe in taking a shot out a bit if no one is in a better position but not shooting from the halfway line though.
Many of the wasted chances have been speculation at best,trying to get on the scoresheet at worst.
Both need to be dealt with and certainly will be,within the next few weeks.
 

Gone Kloppo

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my idea for solving the attack would be put the attack in defence .. no way is there that once they receive the ball in the box that they will inadvertently pass to someone else .. put our defence in the oppositions box .. because they are very good at creating chances and are used to the ball going in the back of the net .. job done ? lol plus the midfielders work harder to help out our attackers.. so with the attackers in defence.. that should really help us not concede stupid goals .
My personal idea (equally applies to other sports such as Aussie Rules) would be to go with a roman legion Testudo formation with someone in the centre with the ball (may as well be the GK). The 10 players in formation would need to be obese with Lipedema (very thick ankles is crucial for this to work) and provided the 10 players have arms interlinked, each facing outward and take small sidesteps up the pitch, they can then simply walk all the way into the goal, being cautious not to allow the keeper to get a hand in between any gaps.

Quality of the game? Boring as batshit. And given the likelihood of the other team doing the same, it would require a bit of luck to make sure you win the toss, to stay in Testudo formation for the entire 90 mins and take it over the line in injury time to make it 1-0.

The Fat Sams and Sean Dyches of this world would absolutely lap this up given their complete disregard for the quality of a football match as results are everything to them. But would Klopp take it on board?
 



Quagmire81

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The answers is obviously to keep Mane fit for every game, not get red cards and bloody convert your chances.
The defense seem shaky and concede easy goals as an end result, but in reality we as a team have kept our opponents from getting into opportunities to score quite well and It's our ability to convert our chances that's been our biggest issue IMO.
I mean had Firmino scored that pen against Sevilla we would likely have won, had Mane not got a red card we might have come back and earned a draw against City. Against Burnley we had over 30 shots at goal and a ball pos. of over 70%, yet we draw in the end. Leicester game was us fielding a bang average side which maybe exposed the lack of squad depth a bit. Up til then we were looking like a proper side.
 
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Jase

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I haven't looked at the stats under Klopp's reign, but it seems like we score, or have the best chances to score, in the first half of games when everyone's fresh.

That's not rocket science.

What is galling to me however, is that we're one of the few teams I know that the old axiom, about not having possession means your players fatigue quicker, doesn't apply to. Normally you'd expect a team with 60%+ possession to be tiring the opposition out, but we seem to do the opposite.

There's no one controlling the pace of the game, letting our forward line get a breather, then go again.
 

Dane

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If only every game featured a goalkeeperless net, no crowd collectively sighing on every miss-kick, no opposition outfield players, and on in-game pressure....
Goalkeeper or not, actually getting the ball on target is a start.
Last 2 games, 56 shots at goal and 12 on target.

Probably best we dont even visit corner accuracy, we've been awful at them for a decade or more.
 

Gone Kloppo

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Goalkeeper or not, actually getting the ball on target is a start.
Last 2 games, 56 shots at goal and 12 on target.

Probably best we dont even visit corner accuracy, we've been awful at them for a decade or more.
How good are the corners at training?
 

Dane

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How good are the corners at training?
I'd suggest not great, but I cant say for certain.
I can say for certain they're fucking dreadful on the weekend though.
 



eng.amohd

The segundo volante
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A serious answer: We don't need any attacking answers. We break open teams for fun. Poor finishing is due to poor form from the whole team. However, if we need more firepower with better defensive solidity, this is the team to go

Migs
Gomez - Matip - Lovren - Robertson
Hendo - Can
Salah - Coutinho - Mane
Firmino
More firepower, better midfield cover, everything sorted.
 

eng.amohd

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A serious answer: We don't need any attacking answers. We break open teams for fun. Poor finishing is due to poor form from the whole team. However, if we need more firepower with better defensive solidity, this is the team to go

Migs
Gomez - Matip - Lovren - Robertson
Hendo - Can
Salah - Coutinho - Mane
Firmino
More firepower, better midfield cover, everything sorted.
Klopp probably read my post yesterday :D :D
 

Mascot88

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My personal idea (equally applies to other sports such as Aussie Rules) would be to go with a roman legion Testudo formation with someone in the centre with the ball (may as well be the GK). The 10 players in formation would need to be obese with Lipedema (very thick ankles is crucial for this to work) and provided the 10 players have arms interlinked, each facing outward and take small sidesteps up the pitch, they can then simply walk all the way into the goal, being cautious not to allow the keeper to get a hand in between any gaps.

Quality of the game? Boring as batshit. And given the likelihood of the other team doing the same, it would require a bit of luck to make sure you win the toss, to stay in Testudo formation for the entire 90 mins and take it over the line in injury time to make it 1-0.

The Fat Sams and Sean Dyches of this world would absolutely lap this up given their complete disregard for the quality of a football match as results are everything to them. But would Klopp take it on board?
This is virtually identical to the tactical suggestion I posted the other day. I think the only thing stopping it is that technically if the players on the outside of the formation are stopping the opposition getting to the ball, technically it's obstruction.

Put it this way. If it were legal, Pulis would have done it by now
 
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YeGra

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This is virtually identical to the tactical suggestion I posted the other day. I think the only thing stopping it is that technically if the players on the outside of the formation are stopping the opposition getting to the ball, technically it's obstruction.

Put it this way. If it were legal, Pulis would have done it by now
I imagine the counter tactic would be to cram all your players in the 6 yard box to reduce the gap to goal. When the incoming circle of players got to your penalty area, it might even result in some fucked up version of the scrum until a small opening appears for the central player to take a shot at goal. Then the other team repeat the protective circle tactic. Back and forth it goes for 90 minutes and whoever is better wins the game.

IF this was all legal I wonder if the ref would stop it just for the sheer stupidity of it lol.
 

Fullmetal

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I think there are a number of patterns that are currently contributing to this lack of goals:

1. Our current team setup needs a natural striker upfront and not a false nine. Solanke changed the game when he came on in the Palace game. Sturridge was brilliant against Leicester. As much as I love Bobby he is not fit for this job. Also he has been poor ever since the International break.

2. We don't have goal scoring midfielders. Henderson scores a goal once in a blue moon, Wiljnaldum has away blues and Can only scores world beaters. I believe that Lallana would have made a massive difference in this current team. Not only he is creatively better but he has a natural eye for goal.

3. Poor decision making and lack of ruthlessness. Sometimes we over-complicate things in the final box; a dribble too much, an unnecessary pass thereby breaking the game flow and a totally bad pass . At other times its of course that remarkable ability to finish goal scoring chances. (Salah/Firmino stand up please)
 

cynicaloldgit

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I imagine the counter tactic would be to cram all your players in the 6 yard box to reduce the gap to goal. When the incoming circle of players got to your penalty area, it might even result in some fucked up version of the scrum until a small opening appears for the central player to take a shot at goal. Then the other team repeat the protective circle tactic. Back and forth it goes for 90 minutes and whoever is better wins the game.

IF this was all legal I wonder if the ref would stop it just for the sheer stupidity of it lol.
Sounds like kabbadi to me.