The attack - what's the answer?

Alex

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Never thought i'd pop this thread anytime soon.

While i see no reason to panic, i can’t help thinking what if we've been found out?
We've had a hard time against intelligent defences lately
 

lfc.eddie

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Never thought i'd pop this thread anytime soon.

While i see no reason to panic, i can’t help thinking what if we've been found out?
We've had a hard time against intelligent defences lately
This is where midfield comes in. Firmino has the work rate and brain to operate and beat those intelligent defences, but our other two needs a bit more help. Salah needs to change his style of play because everyone knows what to do against him when his back facing goal. He would almost always try to push the ball to his right or backheel-nutmeg and spin to his right to turn the defence. Mane will almost always take the ball and run, pause a bit and push the ball forward and run again. He also prefer to stop at the byline, cut back to try and pass with his right. Becomes a habit for the two of them, which I think better and more tactical coaches have caught up. Marking Salah, you don't follow the ball, follow the man when he lay the pass off. Sarri did that, Pochettino did that and now Ancelotti did the same.

So to sort this out, I've been saying we need someone who can take a long ranger once a while. When was the last time we saw someone hit a screamer? This time last year? That's the unpredictability we needed from our players and that will ease the burden of those three infront which helps them. It will make the opponent a bit more wary of what we could do, the opponent will have to think of how to follow our front three while not leaving one or two of our midfielders too open to have a go. Oxlade-Chamberlain was the last player to have crack that long range shot, other than the front 3.

Since we don't have a player that can shoot out of nothing (someone is going to tell me Sturridge did it against Chelsea - yay!!), I think Klopp needs to rethink and maybe play with different options by changing sides between Mane and Salah. Ancelotti changed his winger and moved them to the flanks where their dominant foot is, and they started whipping the ball in more, troubling our defence and keeper. That can be an option if we can't break them down with our normal intricate passes, get those two to switch flanks and keep firing the ball in while make sure one of our midfielders attacking the box with Firmino, or drop Firmino deeper and play with Sturridge as our striker.
 

RedForever2014

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What we have to remember, is that our attack did not get a proper summer break, they went straight from a very heavy season into a world cup, carrying an injury in Salah's case, and then had just three weeks off.

We have a clinical back up striker, but he can't work hard enough for the style of play we deploy to play regularly and if we play him regularly we all know he'll get injured. Shaqiri is better than we had last season as further backup, but isn't like for like with Mane or Salah. Solanke and Origi offer nothing.

That said, the attack is not independent of the rest of the side. We're struggling up top also because the rest of the side - particularly midfield - is not playing well too. In fact the structure of the midfield has changed too, with the creativity of Coutinho and Oxlade missing versus last season.

Our keeper and centre backs are the only players who have consistently performed this season, and VVD is starting to look a bit knackered because we simply cannot rest him. This is not just because there's no similar level back up for him, but also because we cannot afford to reduce the level of our centre backs even a little, given how the rest of the side is playing. Gomez is injury prone, if he or VVD gets injured, we will suffer.

Robertson has not been last season's level consistently, but is not the issue in defence. The issue is TAA, who apart from PSG has been poor. For my money he wasn't as outstanding last season as people were saying. He had a torrid time at Roma, but he was developing. This season he has stalled and regressed. This is both offensively and defensively and it's reducing the effectiveness of the right flank with Salah cutting inside.

But for me the main issue is our midfield. The different midfields we have played in the past three matches, containing variations of the five midfielders everyone was salivating about over the summer, have been second best to their opponents.

The Gini, Milner, Hendo trio only works in certain circumstances. Fabinho is not able to come in and rotate and Keita has not hit the ground running and is now injured.

It's clear that defence is way better than this time last year, but midfield has regressed.

This time last year we had Hendo, Milner, Gini, Can, Coutinho and Oxlade. Grujic was here too, but isn't counted as he only played in the League Cup. Lallana was injured then and is now, and for my money is of no use whatsoever anymore.

Whatever you say about Can, and he wasn't an ideal 5,6 or 8, he was rarely as poor as the others when they are poor. He was a 7+ out of 10 player and this time last year a viable and valuable rotation option. His replacement, Fabinho, is contributing nothing.

Henderson, Gini and Milner are similar level to this time last year, Oxlade and Coutinho are missing and this time last year were contributing far more than Keita has.

So year on year we are down a player, we had six midfielders plus an injured Lallana this time last year and have five midfielders plus an injured Lallana this year. Fabinho isn't doing what Can was doing and Keita hasn't done what Coutinho or Oxlade were doing.

If we want to include Shaqiri as that other midfielder, then the numbers are the same, but he - like Keita and Fabinho - is not the level of Can, Coutinho and Oxlade just now.

Basically we did not strengthen up top and - at best - we're transitioning Coutinho, Oxlade and Can into Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri.

Whether the improved defence is enough to offset this reduction in current midfield quality and heavy legged forwards remains to be seen.

Personally, from what I've seen the past week from effectively a full strength and fit first team squad, suggests to me that we're not going to challenge for the title in the end.

Much depends on what Klopp does to resolve these issues.

IMO he needs to get Fabinho integrated by playing him at right back for a run of matches. He cannot be worse than TAA has been, will be better than Clyne, and needs match fitness.

Midfield depends on Keita, but if we're stuck with Hendo, Gini and Milner as the only options, we'll have to consider using Shaqiri to add something different.

I've often said that if you need three players to do the work of two, whether that be three central midfielders or three centre backs, you've got to question the quality of those players, but if Keita and Fabinho can't be used there we need to consider other formations.

We could go to 4231, with either Shaqiri at 10, or Bobby at 10 and Sturridge up top.

What we can't do, is just continue to play Hendo, Milner and Gini and the front three.

It's time for Klopp to show he has solutions.
 
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Billy Biskix

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Last night was a worry, not because it was part of any particular trend but because it may start one. Ancelotti knew better than anyone how dependent we are on our full backs to create space in the final third. Mane and Salah were isolated because TAA and Robertson were pinned back and whenever the ball went near them they were completely swamped. Our FBs are very influential in an attacking sense, not because they are forever pinging in crosses but they get forward and allow Mane and Salah to come inside, float around the central areas and become very difficult to pick up. That's where they do all their damage.

Until last night the only problem with our attacking play has been the finishing because we've created plenty of chances. And our defending is now so good we don't have to score loads of goals to win a match, which is how it should be. I think there are and always have been a few risks though depending on how the season plays out and injuries etc.

We remain highly dependent on the front 3 to get all the goals. Salah is obviously really struggling this season to come to terms with being tightly marked throughout. You would think that might create more space for others but there is no goal threat from the midfield at all. Gini and Milner rarely score from open play and I can't remember when Henderson last had a shot, let alone score a goal. This is where we really need Keita to be good, especially with Ox fucked and Lallana looking finished. Even so Keita has hardly been prolific in his career so far.

Until last night the success of the full backs has masked the lack of creativity in the midfield but if others adopt a similarly successful approach as Napoli then we might struggle. I thought the game was crying out for a change of shape from us. Go three at the back, for example, and push the FBs further up. Really disappointing that we didn't try something different. If we come up against similar tactics in future then we may be forced to.
 

FilthyBloke

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I think it’s time to play a midfield three of Fabinho keita and Shaqiri.
The current mix of Henderson Milner and Wijnandum offer little in the scoring charts, plus they look like they are shattered.
 

Eintrachtfan

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Maybe one of the reasons our front three are stuttering is that our midfield is more defensively minded.
To improve our attack it’s necessary that our strikers and midfielders make offers to getting played in.
What I mean is there’s not enough movement from our players when it comes to build up any attack. Yesterday I thought they don’t see the spaces where to run in and to pass in.
I’ve read, I think it was in the Echo, that our midfielders played only twelve passes forward and eighysomething passes backwards or sidewards. If there is no offer to pass the ball forwards the player has to pass backwards or sidewards.
Furthermore I think our players released the ball too late so it was easy for Naples defenders.
 

Iluvatar

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Yes our attack is miss firing.. Yes they are not hitting the dizzy heights of last season..

My opinion on the above is that yes the attack is stuttering and on an individual basis I believe that is primarily down to Fatigue, with the below reasons which have all accumulated in a very very tired front 3 in body and mind;

a) A draining season last
b) Little to no rest during the off-season
c) Limited to no pre-season time
d) In Salah's case coming back too early from injury
e) No credible (or trusted yet) rotational options so they are already playing heavy minutes this season.

When you are fatigued everything takes slightly longer, you take an extra touch, you over think your shot selection, you start to lose those individual duels, you stop finding space.. It all starts to take its toll and then it starts to affect confidence and it can lead to a ripple effect through your team mates.

Klopp holds a bit of blame here as he decided not to pursue an alternative to Fekir (who would be perfect right now) and go with what he has at the club.. I can accept that decision, he is an unbelievable manager and is going to achieve greatness here so he's earnt my trust. However I do get a nagging feeling though that he now finds himself between a rock and a hard place.. By bad luck (Lallana being injured), or taking time to learn our patterns of play (Shaqiri) or by simply not trusting Sturridge etc. The team is now still over reliant on our magnificent front 3, and now the goals have dried up.. Now it's not a huge problem yet.. Being the great manager he is he's sorted our defense so we no longer have to score 3+ goals to win a game.

I think you also need to move backwards in the team to actually start to see the fundamental problems which are contributing to the lack of goals. the best midfield from Klopp's era have been (in my opinion) - Henderson, Gini, Lallana.. Or Henderson, Gini, Oxlade.. Why is that different to what we have now? Firstly you have that no.10 type player, you have the player who goes in-between the lines, the guy who links attack and midfield. With our current 3 of Henderson, Milner and Gini we have industrious and hard working players, but I'd say they all have similar skillsets and once they start to tire their biggest assets become their larges weaknesses.. Milner was completely ineffective against Napoli, he was 2nd to everything, tackling/passing was all a fraction slow, he was never an option in forward positions. Gini was similar he went back into ghost mode, when once Henderson came on he should of been pushing forward, helping our attack but instead he was occupying similar positions to Henderson.. We don't need two no.6s we need what works.. A no.6 who sits, screens and recycles possession. A no.8 playing box to box, snuffing out space in defence, arriving into the box in attack, and finally that no.10 the one feeding our front 3, someone to bring it from deep, drop the shoulder beat the press and be an outside of the box goal threat.. When we go away from players doing those roles (by choice or design) we look poor. We look like a team of individuals v's the heavy metal pressing beast team Klopp created.

Now how do you fix this problem? We chose not to sign a player to fix it and Keita hasn't hit the ground running yet.. My personal opinion is we need to play Shaqiri as a no.10 (like against Southampton). Another alternative is we also can revert to a 442 diamond with Sturridge/Firmino up top with Mane at the tip of the diamond. Another option is 3 at the back allowing our fullbacks to really bomb forward.

Make no mistake this isn't a crisis, this isn't a moan at Klopp, I just think we are coming to a cross roads and one of the biggest frustrations of the past has been a reluctance to change. I really hope we don't go back down the road of hitting our head against a brick wall by using the same miss firing formation/personnel and tactics. Klopp has been stubborn before and my post probably comes from watching us v's Napoli and not seeing any reaction or change to what we were doing when it was obviously not working. I expect big things from this squad, we've invested well, this should be our season.. Now is the time to be bold and keep us back on our perch.
 

Serdar Ekrem İleri

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Midfielders come short in supplying the attackers with passes thats why the forwards are failing.I would play Fabinho and Keita from this point going forward.The third player on the mid field, we can rotate between Milner,Henderson and Wijnaldum.
Another factor affecting the attack is that all of them except Sturridge are waaay out of form,especially Salah and Firmino.
 

Hope in your heart

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Injuries play a role, as so often when a team struggles. Missing Ox and Lallana at the same time weakens our midfield, at least as long as Keita is getting himself acquainted with English football.

As @Semmy says, we currently miss a player who links midfield and attack. This could indeed be resolved by going 4231, with an attacking player in the 10 position, for instance Firmino behind Sturridge, or Shaqiri behind Firmino. Keita will be able to play that role too imo.

Against 'lesser' opositition like Southampton, it's probably worth thinking about. In the immediate future though, with that Man City game coming along, I don't know whether this is an option. We saw against S'hampton that Klopp changed the formation back to 433 at half-time, in order to gain more control over the game. He obviously thought we hadn't enough of it and were leaving ourselves open for dangerous counters.

Against City, any loss of control over the game will result in goals being scored against us. That's why my opinion is that he'll ignore all the signs of fatigue shown at Naples, and go with exactly the same team again, hoping that the players will dig deep in their energy reserves for that big occasion. But looking a bit more forward (after the international break, against less formidable opponents), reverting to a 4231 could be the solution to allow our front three to get to their best again.
 

RedForever2014

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Yes our attack is miss firing.. Yes they are not hitting the dizzy heights of last season..

My opinion on the above is that yes the attack is stuttering and on an individual basis I believe that is primarily down to Fatigue, with the below reasons which have all accumulated in a very very tired front 3 in body and mind;

a) A draining season last
b) Little to no rest during the off-season
c) Limited to no pre-season time
d) In Salah's case coming back too early from injury
e) No credible (or trusted yet) rotational options so they are already playing heavy minutes this season.

When you are fatigued everything takes slightly longer, you take an extra touch, you over think your shot selection, you start to lose those individual duels, you stop finding space.. It all starts to take its toll and then it starts to affect confidence and it can lead to a ripple effect through your team mates.

Klopp holds a bit of blame here as he decided not to pursue an alternative to Fekir (who would be perfect right now) and go with what he has at the club.. I can accept that decision, he is an unbelievable manager and is going to achieve greatness here so he's earnt my trust. However I do get a nagging feeling though that he now finds himself between a rock and a hard place.. By bad luck (Lallana being injured), or taking time to learn our patterns of play (Shaqiri) or by simply not trusting Sturridge etc. The team is now still over reliant on our magnificent front 3, and now the goals have dried up.. Now it's not a huge problem yet.. Being the great manager he is he's sorted our defense so we no longer have to score 3+ goals to win a game.

I think you also need to move backwards in the team to actually start to see the fundamental problems which are contributing to the lack of goals. the best midfield from Klopp's era have been (in my opinion) - Henderson, Gini, Lallana.. Or Henderson, Gini, Oxlade.. Why is that different to what we have now? Firstly you have that no.10 type player, you have the player who goes in-between the lines, the guy who links attack and midfield. With our current 3 of Henderson, Milner and Gini we have industrious and hard working players, but I'd say they all have similar skillsets and once they start to tire their biggest assets become their larges weaknesses.. Milner was completely ineffective against Napoli, he was 2nd to everything, tackling/passing was all a fraction slow, he was never an option in forward positions. Gini was similar he went back into ghost mode, when once Henderson came on he should of been pushing forward, helping our attack but instead he was occupying similar positions to Henderson.. We don't need two no.6s we need what works.. A no.6 who sits, screens and recycles possession. A no.8 playing box to box, snuffing out space in defence, arriving into the box in attack, and finally that no.10 the one feeding our front 3, someone to bring it from deep, drop the shoulder beat the press and be an outside of the box goal threat.. When we go away from players doing those roles (by choice or design) we look poor. We look like a team of individuals v's the heavy metal pressing beast team Klopp created.

Now how do you fix this problem? We chose not to sign a player to fix it and Keita hasn't hit the ground running yet.. My personal opinion is we need to play Shaqiri as a no.10 (like against Southampton). Another alternative is we also can revert to a 442 diamond with Sturridge/Firmino up top with Mane at the tip of the diamond. Another option is 3 at the back allowing our fullbacks to really bomb forward.

Make no mistake this isn't a crisis, this isn't a moan at Klopp, I just think we are coming to a cross roads and one of the biggest frustrations of the past has been a reluctance to change. I really hope we don't go back down the road of hitting our head against a brick wall by using the same miss firing formation/personnel and tactics. Klopp has been stubborn before and my post probably comes from watching us v's Napoli and not seeing any reaction or change to what we were doing when it was obviously not working. I expect big things from this squad, we've invested well, this should be our season.. Now is the time to be bold and keep us back on our perch.
Injuries play a role, as so often when a team struggles. Missing Ox and Lallana at the same time weakens our midfield, at least as long as Keita is getting himself acquainted with English football.

As @Semmy says, we currently miss a player who links midfield and attack. This could indeed be resolved by going 4231, with an attacking player in the 10 position, for instance Firmino behind Sturridge, or Shaqiri behind Firmino. Keita will be able to play that role too imo.

Against 'lesser' opositition like Southampton, it's probably worth thinking about. In the immediate future though, with that Man City game coming along, I don't know whether this is an option. We saw against S'hampton that Klopp changed the formation back to 433 at half-time, in order to gain more control over the game. He obviously thought we hadn't enough of it and were leaving ourselves open for dangerous counters.

Against City, any loss of control over the game will result in goals being scored against us. That's why my opinion is that he'll ignore all the signs of fatigue shown at Naples, and go with exactly the same team again, hoping that the players will dig deep in their energy reserves for that big occasion. But looking a bit more forward (after the international break, against less formidable opponents), reverting to a 4231 could be the solution to allow our front three to get to their best again.
The only real excuse for Klopp's inaction at Napoli, was because a draw would have been a perfectly good result and for a long time it looked like we were going to get it regardless of how badly we were playing.

The pitch was also diabolical, and whilst it affected both sides, clearly the side that plays on it every week still has an advantage.

I said after the CL Final I thought his substitutions were poor, as they were in the Europa League Final for that matter, something which is a pattern and often the difference between success and failure in tight situations. I also said that we just have to live with that as part of what Klopp is, no matter how frustrating it is when the changes are obvious to a layman.

What we really need is to be able to get the work of the 6 and box to box player done by two players, not three. If it takes three, you have to question whether those players are good enough.

Personally I don't believe Lallana should even be considered as a potential solution any more. His level is now way below that we need. We should be looking to get what we can for him in January or next summer. He's a classic example of the 'no longer useful to us, let him get old elsewhere'.

Year on year (i.e. versus this time last year, when an intense run of games had to be negotiated), we're clearly better in defence, but struggling in midfield and attack.

This can be directly traced to a comparison of who we had then versus now.

Then: Hendo, Gini, Milner, Can, Oxlade, Coutinho, Lallana (injured), Grujic (here but unused), Bobby, Salah, Mane, Sturridge, Solanke, Ings.

Now: Hendo, Gini, Milner, Fabinho, Keita, Lallana (injured), Bobby, Salah, Mane, Sturridge, Solanke, Origi, Shaqiri.

Oxlade is a huge miss, as is Coutinho to be honest, as is Can in terms of central midfield rotation. Oxlade wasn't great before Xmas but still contributed, Coutinho was good Oct-Dec, Can a solid midfield rotation option.

During the run in we struggled to balance the CL and PL, because effectively we had similar options to what we have now given that Fab, Shaqiri and Keita aren't trusted for big matches.

The front three are tired year on year, but we knew it was a world cup year and could have signed someone (even on loan) to hedge against that.

Klopp is going to have to take steps to sort this. He can't continue to play the midfield three, they'll get worse and worse. He also has to rotate the front three back to sharpness.

Personally I would rotate between Fab/Hendo and Milner/Gini and use Bobby at 10 with Sturridge ahead in some matches, and with Shaqiri at 10 and Bobby at 9 in others.

I'd actually rotate Keita with Mane to give him some games to adapt, without weakening the midfield.

In fact, I would use Fab and Keita in positions where we are struggling, right back and forward, because they can be no worse than those playing there just now. Then when they've some games under their belt, put them in midfield.

Unfortunately Klopp doesn't think like this. He goes along doing the same thing until eventually, like a broken clock being right twice a day, it works. Whilst people then say he was right all along, the chance of a title has already gone.

A manager has to find a way to get results when things are not going well, if success is to be achieved.

Klopp has to get Fabinho and Keita integrated asap, sort the midfield creativity issue and bring freshness back into his forwards.
 

legalalien

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The only real excuse for Klopp's inaction at Napoli, was because a draw would have been a perfectly good result and for a long time it looked like we were going to get it regardless of how badly we were playing.

The pitch was also diabolical, and whilst it affected both sides, clearly the side that plays on it every week still has an advantage.

I said after the CL Final I thought his substitutions were poor, as they were in the Europa League Final for that matter, something which is a pattern and often the difference between success and failure in tight situations. I also said that we just have to live with that as part of what Klopp is, no matter how frustrating it is when the changes are obvious to a layman.

What we really need is to be able to get the work of the 6 and box to box player done by two players, not three. If it takes three, you have to question whether those players are good enough.

Personally I don't believe Lallana should even be considered as a potential solution any more. His level is now way below that we need. We should be looking to get what we can for him in January or next summer. He's a classic example of the 'no longer useful to us, let him get old elsewhere'.

Year on year (i.e. versus this time last year, when an intense run of games had to be negotiated), we're clearly better in defence, but struggling in midfield and attack.

This can be directly traced to a comparison of who we had then versus now.

Then: Hendo, Gini, Milner, Can, Oxlade, Coutinho, Lallana (injured), Grujic (here but unused), Bobby, Salah, Mane, Sturridge, Solanke, Ings.

Now: Hendo, Gini, Milner, Fabinho, Keita, Lallana (injured), Bobby, Salah, Mane, Sturridge, Solanke, Origi, Shaqiri.

Oxlade is a huge miss, as is Coutinho to be honest, as is Can in terms of central midfield rotation. Oxlade wasn't great before Xmas but still contributed, Coutinho was good Oct-Dec, Can a solid midfield rotation option.

During the run in we struggled to balance the CL and PL, because effectively we had similar options to what we have now given that Fab, Shaqiri and Keita aren't trusted for big matches.

The front three are tired year on year, but we knew it was a world cup year and could have signed someone (even on loan) to hedge against that.

Klopp is going to have to take steps to sort this. He can't continue to play the midfield three, they'll get worse and worse. He also has to rotate the front three back to sharpness.

Personally I would rotate between Fab/Hendo and Milner/Gini and use Bobby at 10 with Sturridge ahead in some matches, and with Shaqiri at 10 and Bobby at 9 in others.

I'd actually rotate Keita with Mane to give him some games to adapt, without weakening the midfield.

In fact, I would use Fab and Keita in positions where we are struggling, right back and forward, because they can be no worse than those playing there just now. Then when they've some games under their belt, put them in midfield.

Unfortunately Klopp doesn't think like this. He goes along doing the same thing until eventually, like a broken clock being right twice a day, it works. Whilst people then say he was right all along, the chance of a title has already gone.

A manager has to find a way to get results when things are not going well, if success is to be achieved.

Klopp has to get Fabinho and Keita integrated asap, sort the midfield creativity issue and bring freshness back into his forwards.
I think maybe what you say might not be all that popular but I do agree with it.

Klopp does have to be more pro-active and not persist with the same players game after game, particularly this season when so many players didn't get enough close season rest after a tiring season. Yes, we are handicapped by injuries to midfielders, but we are not without options. At the very least, if Keita is fit then he should play against City in place of Milner who needs a rest. Myself, I'd be more adventurous and also play Shakiri in place of Wijnaldum. Hopefully that would see the midfield better integrated with the front three.
 

Chewbazza

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I don'y have any answers. I trust Klopp. For me the difference is may be a few things. Not once have we seen heavy metal football, regardless of who is playing. In fact what we have seen is a more organised defence, more game management, increasingly less cavalier full backs. The purchase of a genuine DM (although one who has barely played). All of this paints a picture of a slightly different philosophy. One which improves the team but limits the forwards. Add into this a Salah who seems to be holding back either physically or mentally after the injury in Kiev aligning with a dip in productivity from Mané and Bobby, and suddenly everything doesn't quite click.

Klopp has to figure the answer out quickly if we want to build on our (point-wise) impressive start. After City we have three games that we can probably afford to mix things up, rest those that need it, or try something completely different.
 

Danny_

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When is Lallana back? He's probably a better option than Shaqiri or Sturridge if the front 3 continue to fire blanks.
 

SBYM

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Ahem...

And you all thought I was off me head...:rolleyes:

Playing the long game, I was...
 

Nikola

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It was an intense period, I'm sure that Klopp and his players are breathing a huge sigh of relief that these games are out of the way. I know I am, you can sense when the team is tiring and sometimes you can even predict the way the opponents would set up their team to negate Liverpool's qualities and exacerbate their flaws.

When Mane and especially Salah were missing sitters, we were saying that the problem was in the attack, that they are tired, not clicking with each other etc. However, in past three games, they barely had a chance to miss, which points to midfield issues, in my opinion. Credit to Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner for running themselves into the ground for Liverpool's cause but we've known for quite a while that they just don't work well together because they essentially render the team one-dimensional, too reliant on fullbacks to create openings. Also, Mane isn't cut out for playing the role Coutinho had last season, he's a forward, not a playmaker.

So, in short, the answer to Liverpool's attack is improvement in midfield. We all knew that injuries to Lallana and AOC would hit the team hard but it's games like this one when you think it's worse than it was supposed to be.
 

cynicaloldgit

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Drop all three of Mané, Firmino and Salah.

Start Camacho, Sturridge and Shaqiri.

Show that nobody is guaranteed a starting spot.
 

lfc.eddie

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Drop all three of Mané, Firmino and Salah.

Start Camacho, Sturridge and Shaqiri.

Show that nobody is guaranteed a starting spot.
WOnt make any difference, they still won’t get a good pass from midfield. Our quick and dangerous attack sequences came from Van Dijk, Lovren or Alisson’s Clearance.
 

GermanRed

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Apart from the goals that Salah scored last season (but not a the moment) I’m still 100% convinced that Mané is a more dangerous / more effective player on the right wing than Mo and he somehow often can’t show it on his left wing now.
I will never forget how Mané destroyed opponents on the right wing before Salah arrived.

So why not switching wings during games if things don’t work out?
 

GermanRed

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Long balls are part of our game. Salah, Mané and Firmino lose almost all aerial duels - that’s no surprise tbh. The problem is that we then lose most of the second balls. Maybe it’s positioning of our midfielders but I think that the fact that our midfielders are also not so good at headers is a big problem.

Having Fabinho on the pitch could help but his deep lying position is not where the second balls go to.

Maybe Grujic could solve that problem in the future.
 

ILLOK

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Nothing, just keep going and it'll click at some point. Shaqiri or Sturridge from the start against the weaker sides may help though.

Today City defended as well as I've seen any team defend at Anfield for as long as I can remember, that was a masterclass.
 
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Rotation.
 



LFCFFC

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Probably don't need to slash and burn to the extent of resting all 3 simultaneously, but I wouldn't mind seeing Shaq/Studge start in place of one of the wingers or Bobby against Huddersfield.

Think Mo in particular could really benefit from coming off the bench at the 70 minute mark against a tiring defense.
 
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I think we have a problem that involves 2 players.
It appears to me that Firmino has formed a relation with Salah that is unhealthy (above all because Salah is well down on form). Firmino had this with Coutinho and it makes it sooo easy for the opposition defence. He always looks for Salah (even if there are better options just ahead of him Robertson againts Napoli, Mané on numberous occasions) that compounded with his passes being far too 'soft' makes it easy for an opposition defense to anticipate what's on next and put 3 defenders on Salah (which just compounds Salah's poor form).
Klopp really has to sort this out in training, even just a bit more aggressivity and selfishness from Firmino would do wonders for our attack imo.
So for me we have 2 disfunctional forwards and Mané who is trying to get noticed (Mané puts in one hell of a shift both defensively and in attack and for me is putting both Firmino and Salah to shame). They need to work together and use other players as well other wise they will struggle to get the goals we need all season (we are already dropping behind on goal difference and it's not the fault of the defense).
 

Colorado Red

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The (comparatively) easier run of games coming up will hopefully give Klopp the opportunity to try some new things.

Shaqiri as a #10 behind our existing front 3.
Firmino dropping into #10, behind Sturridge (or Solanke).
That, and getting Naby Keita firing on all cylinders.

Stop being so over-reliant on a mis-firing Mo. Either rest him a game or two, or else change his position or our attacking tactics to allow him to be out of the spotlight long enough to regain some sharpness. Also, start coming to realize that last season was probably the form of his life, and start having more realistic expectations of him. 20 goals a season (all comps) from a wide forward would still make for a fantastic player.

Finally, getting Fabinho settled into the side, whether at #6, or a combo of #6 and a few run outs at RB. We need to start using our depth so that we’re not starting a fatigued and relatively uncreative combo of Hendo-Gini-Millie every game. And I hear that we have a player on the books named Lallana who was once something of a player. Will he ever contribute again?
 

vjcpatriot

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I'm a bit puzzled why our offence is fizzling. Clearly we have more talent in midfield than last season with Keita and Fabinho in the fold. Theoretically the supply should be better...

Our forwards have looked lackluster compared to last season, what is the reason for their malaise? They are just not clicking the way they were before but they appear to all be healthy. I've noticed that the passing from the forwards is not as tight and on point as before. Particularly Salah's passes, they seem off target and rushed a lot of the time. When he was picking apart defences with his passes last season, that made the whole team more deadly.

Do we simply need more practice with improving our passing? Or are teams now doing something different to slow down that explosive Liverpool counter attacking?