The attack - what's the answer?

Limiescouse

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Nothing, just keep going and it'll click at some point. Shaqiri or Sturridge from the start against the weaker sides may help though.

Today City defended as well as I've seen any team defend at Anfield for as long as I can remember, that was a masterclass.
I agree. Some of the commentary on the game I have seen is astounding. One piece claimed both sides played so poorly neither will ever have as good a chance of beating a rival as that. What? I think maybe just because of the identity of the sides and the football they are associated with the quality of the defensive play of both sides was down played. What I thought was remarkable was how good Bernardo Silva was in a deeper and central position. It's one thing to have adapted to the more central position in De Bruyne's absence from an attacking perspective. But that was a proper midfield performance yesterday.
 

Mascot88

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I agree. Some of the commentary on the game I have seen is astounding. One piece claimed both sides played so poorly neither will ever have as good a chance of beating a rival as that. What? I think maybe just because of the identity of the sides and the football they are associated with the quality of the defensive play of both sides was down played. What I thought was remarkable was how good Bernardo Silva was in a deeper and central position. It's one thing to have adapted to the more central position in De Bruyne's absence from an attacking perspective. But that was a proper midfield performance yesterday.
Don’t bother with it. Neither side played poorly. Both we’re excellent. And that was the problem. Liverpool and City did such an effective job of controlling each other’s space and limiting their opportunities, it had the effect of cancelling each other out.
 

Danny_

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I think we have a problem that involves 2 players.
It appears to me that Firmino has formed a relation with Salah that is unhealthy (above all because Salah is well down on form). Firmino had this with Coutinho and it makes it sooo easy for the opposition defence. He always looks for Salah (even if there are better options just ahead of him Robertson againts Napoli, Mané on numberous occasions) that compounded with his passes being far too 'soft' makes it easy for an opposition defense to anticipate what's on next and put 3 defenders on Salah (which just compounds Salah's poor form).
Klopp really has to sort this out in training, even just a bit more aggressivity and selfishness from Firmino would do wonders for our attack imo.
So for me we have 2 disfunctional forwards and Mané who is trying to get noticed (Mané puts in one hell of a shift both defensively and in attack and for me is putting both Firmino and Salah to shame). They need to work together and use other players as well other wise they will struggle to get the goals we need all season (we are already dropping behind on goal difference and it's not the fault of the defense).
Agreed. I see them passing the ball around in the friggin box and am screaming at the TV for someone to shoot every time they do it. They have gone from being lethal and always making the right decision to not being able to hit a barn door (in Salah's case at least) and floundering in front of goal. I don't know if it is a confidence thing or if they are tired or if the opposition has sussed them out and are defending better. Maybe, it's a combination of all three. It is definitely also down to the exit of Coutinho. You miss a player of that quality over the course of the season and while we didn't seem to miss him last season, we are finding out now why it was critical to replace him over the summer. We have no replacement for our front 3 without a big dip in quality/industry (in Sturridge's case). And that is the dilemna for Klopp. What does he do? Should he persevere with them and hope they suddenly start firing on all cylinders again or go for the 2nd string who are a big step down. When we had Coutinho, we had a replacement that wasn't a big step down and they had competition for places. We could leave one of them out and still be fine. Now, we are too reliant on them. If we want to truly challenge for the title this year, we may have to sort this problem out over the Christmas period.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Don’t bother with it. Neither side played poorly. Both we’re excellent. And that was the problem. Liverpool and City did such an effective job of controlling each other’s space and limiting their opportunities, it had the effect of cancelling each other out.
This is a bit of a hard one because all three players are endeavoring but with no end product. Bobby is still dropping deep and doing some good work, but it means he arrives late at the business end. It'd be hard to score a lot playing that way but he did last season. If Mo hadn't have had a freaky season and had just turned up at the start of this season, then we would probably be quite happy with his return: you know a couple of goals and some one works the fullback really hard. Sadio and Mo get so much attention from the opposition that it's hard for them get the space they need to do something special. They would literally need to be unplayable. There are only about five players on the entire planet who are truly unplayable. Maybe we need to tweak the approach of our attack in order to make it less familiar to the opposition. As regards to the chance conversion and finishing of the front three, then I believe this is more psychological than anything else. After a heavy season -and world cup- they've come back technically exhausted. What solves it? Maybe a rest, or being dropped, or do they just plug away until it clicks? I would maybe try starting Studge and give him a half, this way he will work really hard inside 45 mins and Bobby's blood would be boiling sitting on the bench. If he then comes on, he's an angry Bobby, and an angry Bobby is be better than a lethargic, sloppy Bobby.
 

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Apart from the goals that Salah scored last season (but not a the moment) I’m still 100% convinced that Mané is a more dangerous / more effective player on the right wing than Mo and he somehow often can’t show it on his left wing now.
I will never forget how Mané destroyed opponents on the right wing before Salah arrived.

So why not switching wings during games if things don’t work out?
Last season, that was the case. They would switch sides quite often, with Firmino being very unpredictable too for the opposition with his runs. This season, the three of them seem very static and predictable so far, I can't really figure why. Maybe Klopp has given them less licence to roam around recently, with all the big teams we've faced, and they have had to hold a strict position more often than not.

I expect them to enjoy more freedom in the next string of matches though.

Don’t bother with it. Neither side played poorly. Both we’re excellent. And that was the problem. Liverpool and City did such an effective job of controlling each other’s space and limiting their opportunities, it had the effect of cancelling each other out.
Excellent? I don't know for City, but several of our players weren't on their game last Sunday (Salah being the main example). The defensive performance of both teams was good, that I'll give you, but us not having one shoot on target, even once in the whole game, can't only be due to Man City defending well, but also to our lads being out of form just yet when going forward, applying the last pass, finishing. It was similar in Naples and during both games against Chelsea.

A trend is clearly there, and Klopp will have to and certainly will adjust something for the next string of games. It's not necessarily chopping and changing players, but rather adjust the balance between defending well and enjoying enough freedom/being confident enough to go forward and create danger.
 

Iluvatar

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I read a great stat earlier.. Same time last season we had scored 13 goals.. So far this season 15.. (In the league.) Can't wait for us to get out of 1st gear and blow teams away again!
 

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Excellent? I don't know for City, but several of our players weren't on their game last Sunday (Salah being the main example). The defensive performance of both teams was good, that I'll give you, but us not having one shoot on target, even once in the whole game, can't only be due to Man City defending well, but also to our lads being out of form just yet when going forward, applying the last pass, finishing. It was similar in Naples and during both games against Chelsea.
We had a couple on target, but nothing that would ever be of trouble. Same for City though. I honestly think it was two exceptionally well drilled, tactically outstanding sides refusing to give either any quarter.

It was certainly a very different City than we’ve come to expect. They reigned in their attacking instincts and held their shape, as did we. For both sides the threat of losing was the motivating factor, and the non-sub of Shaqiri shows this. For Klopp to tell him to sit back down when Mahrez skies the pen, suggests he isn’t willing to risk a point to chase a win. Not in that game.

Salah might not be on form, but we don’t know how much of his (and Mane and Firminos) stuttering is down to them or their opponents shackling them. Every team in the league will be playing Liverpool with a plan to suffocate the three up front. Most teams aren’t going to be good enough (West Ham, Southampton, Brighton, Palace, Leicester) but an excellent team like Chelsea, Napoli, or City - combining world class, intelligent players and superb, tactically astute managers have a good chance of shutting down the front three and making them look ineffective. It’s instructive that we’ve actually scored more goals this season than last.
 

lfc.eddie

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Excellent? I don't know for City, but several of our players weren't on their game last Sunday (Salah being the main example). The defensive performance of both teams was good, that I'll give you, but us not having one shoot on target, even once in the whole game, can't only be due to Man City defending well, but also to our lads being out of form just yet when going forward, applying the last pass, finishing. It was similar in Naples and during both games against Chelsea.
Salah to me has been the biggest culprit in our toothless attacking game in the last few matches. Not that he didn't create chances for himself or get into position that he could score, but he has been miss-hitting shots. Most passes to him lately has come from Van Dijk, long ball over the top. Not something I would like to see too damn much. Then comes his other two forwards companion. Mane and Firmino have not been firing up their game either. A lot of people were complimenting Mane's work rate, but if his work rate have not been in the final third to produce results, he isn't doing his work right (to me at least). Firmino may still be nursing his eye injury, he's still on medication.

The big thing that we've been missing is our midfield. We relied on fullbacks to whip crosses into the box, and centre half to lob the ball over the top for our forward to chase. We relied on the three frontmen to make things happen, while our midfield are all grafts and no threat against opposing goals. When have you seen a long shot on goal that was on target coming from Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum and Keita? Since Coutinho left and Oxlade-Chamberlain's injury, the midfield didn't provide an outlet for the forward to use. They can run towards the final 3rd, stop, don't know what to do, turn back and pass to their nearest teammate. No through pass, no defence splitting drive into the box or long shot outside the 18 yard box. None.

If a quality opponent blocked our front 3 from playing, nobody else outside those 3 are going to threaten the opposing keeper.
 

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We had a couple on target, but nothing that would ever be of trouble. Same for City though. I honestly think it was two exceptionally well drilled, tactically outstanding sides refusing to give either any quarter.

It was certainly a very different City than we’ve come to expect. They reigned in their attacking instincts and held their shape, as did we. For both sides the threat of losing was the motivating factor, and the non-sub of Shaqiri shows this. For Klopp to tell him to sit back down when Mahrez skies the pen, suggests he isn’t willing to risk a point to chase a win. Not in that game.

Salah might not be on form, but we don’t know how much of his (and Mane and Firminos) stuttering is down to them or their opponents shackling them. Every team in the league will be playing Liverpool with a plan to suffocate the three up front. Most teams aren’t going to be good enough (West Ham, Southampton, Brighton, Palace, Leicester) but an excellent team like Chelsea, Napoli, or City - combining world class, intelligent players and superb, tactically astute managers have a good chance of shutting down the front three and making them look ineffective. It’s instructive that we’ve actually scored more goals this season than last.
Yeah, you have to take into account the opposition, definitely. However, everyone was already feeling before these big games that our attacking game wasn't quite right. We have been writing since day one: wait until our attack clicks. But it hasn't clicked so far.

Is this down to lacking individual form from some key players, or a collective problem? I think that the next string of games, against sides which aren't quite at that same high level, will show this clearly enough.

Thinking back to the Southampton game, another reason could be that our squad players, due to the congestion of mega-fixtures against top opposition, haven't been allowed to contribute as they could have against lesser opponents. Shaqiri for instance had a heavy hand in the three goals scored against Southampton, yet hasn't played much since. Fabinho hasn't played much either until now, and Keita has struggled when called upon against the big boys.

So, the squad hasn't been able to relieve the main players as would have been the case if we had had an easier set of fixtures at the start of the season. Could that be an answer?
 

Limiescouse

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Yeah, you have to take into account the opposition, definitely. However, everyone was already feeling before these big games that our attacking game wasn't quite right. We have been writing since day one: wait until our attack clicks. But it hasn't clicked so far.
It was also a topic of conversation all of last year though - Mane isn't as good on the left and is failing, Firmino isn't a real striker, we miss Countinho. There was always something a segment of the fans were actively concerned about with respect to our attack. Given how succesful they were it seems absurd in retrospect, but I think the way we have approached the game contributes to that almost paradoxical attitude - we have played in a way that is right on the edge of chaos. It is very difficult to play against, but it is also difficult to do well and so we left a lot of chances on the table as a result of what can sometimes look like an act first and think second approach.

This year, we are clearly taking a step back form the chaos. The extra control of games comes with less, for lack of a better term, breaking shit. And picking up the pieces that were broken by our chaos and taking advantage of it was always the best chance creator we had.
 

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Yeah that could be true, especially against the big boys recently. Although Salah, Mané and Firmino have had a clear view on goal a few times recently, even during those hard games, and fluffed their shots or took the wrong decision for the last pass. The system wasn't really at fault there...
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Last season, that was the case. They would switch sides quite often, with Firmino being very unpredictable too for the opposition with his runs. This season, the three of them seem very static and predictable so far, I can't really figure why. Maybe Klopp has given them less licence to roam around recently, with all the big teams we've faced, and they have had to hold a strict position more often than not.

I expect them to enjoy more freedom in the next string of matches though.


Excellent? I don't know for City, but several of our players weren't on their game last Sunday (Salah being the main example). The defensive performance of both teams was good, that I'll give you, but us not having one shoot on target, even once in the whole game, can't only be due to Man City defending well, but also to our lads being out of form just yet when going forward, applying the last pass, finishing. It was similar in Naples and during both games against Chelsea.

A trend is clearly there, and Klopp will have to and certainly will adjust something for the next string of games. It's not necessarily chopping and changing players, but rather adjust the balance between defending well and enjoying enough freedom/being confident enough to go forward and create danger.
Mate, I also thought it was a good game. The people who didn't enjoy this stalemate don't understand the dynamics and jeopardy of elite level football. The entertainment junkies think that because they've forked out their money they should be wowed. If that's what they want then maybe they should go to the Echo Arena and watch the Monster Trucks. I think they're back in town soon, and I bet the tickets are much cheaper, too! Anyway, a lot of these moaners are fly-by-nighters and hopefully a few bore-draws will encourage them to fuck and leave the likes of us to it. Some of them remind of Yanks in that they have really short attention spans and need to be cattle-prodded every minute to stop them from asking for a refund. And, let's face it; they only attend sports events to eat food. So, how about a foot long sausage roll washed down by a yard of Coca-Cola?
 

Limiescouse

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Yeah that could be true, especially against the big boys recently. Although Salah, Mané and Firmino have had a clear view on goal a few times recently, even during those hard games, and fluffed their shots or took the wrong decision for the last pass. The system wasn't really at fault there...
We missed an absurd number of chances last year as well though. Hell, lots of Mane's goals were actually the result of him taking the "wrong" option. I think especially the City game, that goal seemed to be such a cathartic release, scored a time when there was a perspective that he really needed one, but taking that shot on was y far the hardest of the several options he had. We just had so much carnage to take advantage of that it rarely mattered though.

However, I should probably take a step back as I don't mean to suggest that they are individually on top form. For instance, I think Salah looks tired. There have been a couple of time when he seemed to chase something down reluctantly, only doing so after a moment of hesitation. However, without being with them it is difficult to know if it is actual physical tiredness that would be resolved with a small break, or the psychological impact of feeling pressured to start scoring. When you perceive things are not going well everything just feels harder and it can have the same outcome as being genuinely overplayed, but it is not resolved by being taken out of the team. It is only resolved by scoring.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Salah to me has been the biggest culprit in our toothless attacking game in the last few matches. Not that he didn't create chances for himself or get into position that he could score, but he has been miss-hitting shots. Most passes to him lately has come from Van Dijk, long ball over the top. Not something I would like to see too damn much. Then comes his other two forwards companion. Mane and Firmino have not been firing up their game either. A lot of people were complimenting Mane's work rate, but if his work rate have not been in the final third to produce results, he isn't doing his work right (to me at least). Firmino may still be nursing his eye injury, he's still on medication.

The big thing that we've been missing is our midfield. We relied on fullbacks to whip crosses into the box, and centre half to lob the ball over the top for our forward to chase. We relied on the three frontmen to make things happen, while our midfield are all grafts and no threat against opposing goals. When have you seen a long shot on goal that was on target coming from Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum and Keita? Since Coutinho left and Oxlade-Chamberlain's injury, the midfield didn't provide an outlet for the forward to use. They can run towards the final 3rd, stop, don't know what to do, turn back and pass to their nearest teammate. No through pass, no defence splitting drive into the box or long shot outside the 18 yard box. None.

If a quality opponent blocked our front 3 from playing, nobody else outside those 3 are going to threaten the opposing keeper.
You're right. I'm not going to mention Fekihr, because he's irrelevant, now. But, either Shaq or Kieta are going to have to step up to the plate. I would rather it be Naby because he can switch seamlessly between defence and attack. He also has a better engine and can last a full 90.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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We missed an absurd number of chances last year as well though. Hell, lots of Mane's goals were actually the result of him taking the "wrong" option. I think especially the City game, that goal seemed to be such a cathartic release, scored a time when there was a perspective that he really needed one, but taking that shot on was y far the hardest of the several options he had. We just had so much carnage to take advantage of that it rarely mattered though.

However, I should probably take a step back as I don't mean to suggest that they are individually on top form. For instance, I think Salah looks tired. There have been a couple of time when he seemed to chase something down reluctantly, only doing so after a moment of hesitation. However, without being with them it is difficult to know if it is actual physical tiredness that would be resolved with a small break, or the psychological impact of feeling pressured to start scoring. When you perceive things are not going well everything just feels harder and it can have the same outcome as being genuinely overplayed, but it is not resolved by being taken out of the team. It is only resolved by scoring.
When Mo first came back from the world cup he seemed a bit sad. Then he looked quite angry. But, a smile is starting to creep back onto his face. If you can remember last season; Mo was at his best when he had that big, silly smile plastered across his face. I think the disappointment of CL and world cup finals is starting to dissipate, so we should start seeing the old Mo soon, I feel.
 

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Yeah, you have to take into account the opposition, definitely. However, everyone was already feeling before these big games that our attacking game wasn't quite right. We have been writing since day one: wait until our attack clicks. But it hasn't clicked so far.

Is this down to lacking individual form from some key players, or a collective problem? I think that the next string of games, against sides which aren't quite at that same high level, will show this clearly enough.

Thinking back to the Southampton game, another reason could be that our squad players, due to the congestion of mega-fixtures against top opposition, haven't been allowed to contribute as they could have against lesser opponents. Shaqiri for instance had a heavy hand in the three goals scored against Southampton, yet hasn't played much since. Fabinho hasn't played much either until now, and Keita has struggled when called upon against the big boys.

So, the squad hasn't been able to relieve the main players as would have been the case if we had had an easier set of fixtures at the start of the season. Could that be an answer?
Point made on the Anfield Wrap by Mel Reddy.

The first we really knew of a blitzkreig front three blowing teams away was when we went to Maribor and did them seven nil. The date of that game was October 17th.

Even then it was ‘only Maribor’. Then it was only someone else. And so on.

The point is that the front three being this fluid, unstoppable force only really kicked in from about mid October/November.

This year we’ve not only had a similar start in terms of the return from the front three, including them being wasteful, we’ve also had an incredibly tough start to the season - far tougher than City or Chelsea - three of the top six, two sides in the CL who posted 90 points, and tough aways at Palace and Leicester.

Despite much talk of the team not playing well, we’ve looked at that tough start and turned it into a points return that we’ve never bettered in the PL era.

Going forward we’re going to need to see more from Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri. But there are fixtures coming which will Klopp will feel more comfortable about using them.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Point made on the Anfield Wrap by Mel Reddy.

The first we really knew of a blitzkreig front three blowing teams away was when we went to Maribor and did them seven nil. The date of that game was October 17th.

Even then it was ‘only Maribor’. Then it was only someone else. And so on.

The point is that the front three being this fluid, unstoppable force only really kicked in from about mid October/November.

This year we’ve not only had a similar start in terms of the return from the front three, including them being wasteful, we’ve also had an incredibly tough start to the season - far tougher than City or Chelsea - three of the top six, two sides in the CL who posted 90 points, and tough aways at Palace and Leicester.

Despite much talk of the team not playing well, we’ve looked at that tough start and turned it into a points return that we’ve never bettered in the PL era.

Going forward we’re going to need to see more from Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri. But there are fixtures coming which will Klopp will feel more comfortable about using them.
I know we're persisting that it's going to click, but what else can we do but keep the faith? We do need a bit of a shake but the last series of fixtures was too risky to experiment. The City game, for instance, needed clever, disciplined players who know the system. As dynamic as Shaq is, he would have been a huge risk. Naby is much more calculated but even he was misplacing passes. The next run of fixtures gives us a chance to try new things and let 2nd stringers stretch their legs; and as regards to the newbies- find their feet. Our system scares a lot players because it is difficult to fully comprehend. And, even when to understand it, you have to be super-fit to operate within it.
 

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Mate, I also thought it was a good game. The people who didn't enjoy this stalemate don't understand the dynamics and jeopardy of elite level football. The entertainment junkies think that because they've forked out their money they should be wowed. If that's what they want then maybe they should go to the Echo Arena and watch the Monster Trucks. I think they're back in town soon, and I bet the tickets are much cheaper, too! Anyway, a lot of these moaners are fly-by-nighters and hopefully a few bore-draws will encourage them to fuck and leave the likes of us to it. Some of them remind of Yanks in that they have really short attention spans and need to be cattle-prodded every minute to stop them from asking for a refund. And, let's face it; they only attend sports events to eat food. So, how about a foot long sausage roll washed down by a yard of Coca-Cola?
So for you, Entertainment junkie = Yank? :eh?: I'll let you the responsibility of what you're advancing here, but you should be aware that it won't go down well with quite a lot of US-based posters here, who are with us since years and have supported the club through thick and thin, just like the rest of us.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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So for you, Entertainment junkie = Yank? :eh?: I'll let you the responsibility of what you're advancing here, but you should be aware that it won't go down well with quite a lot of US-based posters here, who are with us since years and have supported the club through thick and thin, just like the rest of us.
Take it easy, mate. I meant to put a little disclaimer to say my comment was tongue-in-cheek and was not to offend any yanks, but forgot to put in. Soz. Although; I watched a bit of basket ball the other day and the score was 1298-1270 and I thought to myself: "If only that court was a bit bigger, then maybe we would be treated to a bit more build-up play, because these slam dunks are getting boring!" Ha. Na, like I say; I'm only jestin' yer. But, seriously: not all these new footie fans have followed the game as long as you and they have come with some pre-conceptions and unrealistic expectations. I think they're expecting things that footie cannot give. Footie's more about bore draws on a rainy October night, than the recent razmataz which we have treated the world to. The boring fixtures are annoying, but we still love it! Can you say the same for your some of countrymen who are coming to Anfield as tourists. When I went to New York, I had absolutely no desire to watch any U.S. sports events. I would have watched a fight at MSG, but then again, boxing is a sport is enjoyed by everybody. However, footie is the chosen game of, pretty much, the entire human race, and its popularity isn't down to every game being a barnstormer. That's all I'm saying. The campaign is more important than the sum of its parts. It is expensive to go the match, and a lot of people who fork out for a ticket expect to be entertained. They're sort of like those people who buy a lottery ticket and get pissed off because it weren't a winner.
 

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Gone Kloppo

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Apart from the goals that Salah scored last season (but not a the moment) I’m still 100% convinced that Mané is a more dangerous / more effective player on the right wing than Mo and he somehow often can’t show it on his left wing now.
I will never forget how Mané destroyed opponents on the right wing before Salah arrived.

So why not switching wings during games if things don’t work out?
They did on occasion against City.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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They did on occasion against City.
Putting the guys on alternate wings is so they can cut in on their shooting foot. We have wingbacks who get in crossing positions on their strong foot. It's not worth Mo and Sads getting in crossing positions because all they would be able to do is stand it up because they would be on their weaker foot. So, let them cut in, and let the wingbacks overlap and put the crosses.
 

RedForever2014

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IMO it's a multifaceted issue and every department is part of it.

For the forwards it's fatigue due to the lack of a summer break, a reduced pre season, teams working them out a bit more, compounded by a lack of creativity in midfield and poorer attacking play from the full backs.

This has been further compounded in recent weeks, by an intense series of matches in which it was not possible to rotate them much, nor for that matter use Shaqiri or Keita as a more attacking midfielder in support of them.

It could well be that it will be impossible for them to deliver what they did last season due to all of this, but we need to do something different to use what we have better.

The Milner injury is certainly a warning sign that rotation is necessary and we need to do this over the next two months, or they'll all start hitting the treatment room by Xmas.

I've said before that I'd use Keita and Sturridge in rotation with the front three. Sturridge as a direct swap with Bobby in some matches, Keita at left wing forward, with either Salah right or Mane switched. Shaqiri can be used as a 10 with two midfielders behind.

In fact, even when Bobby, Mane and Salah all play, I'd try swapping the wingers over to their natural sides.

I think the lack of a Coutinho or Oxlade breaking forward with the ball, drawing players out and creating space for Mane and Salah to slip into to receive the ball, is causing much of the issue, as the central area is congested.

So if we can't go through them we should have a go at going round them, Salah on the left, Mane on the right.

IMO, in order to have a squad with everything we need to beat all types of opponent, we do need a proper 10. Until we sign one, or Oxlade returns, if he returns at the same level, we are going to have issues.

Shaqiri can do a job at 10, certainly against some opponents, but I doubt he can do the attacking work and defensive work required against better opponents. Lallana for me is not an option any more.

This run of matches, which has kind of been a dry run for a run in where we're competing on several fronts, tells everyone that rotation and tactical variation is necessary.

I really do hope that we sell Lallana and Origi in January and sign a quality 10 come forward as a replacement. That way they get half a season to adapt for next season and contribute more to the run in that Lallana and Origi would.

Oh for another January signing of a curly haired 20 year old for £8m.
 

RedForever2014

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Putting the guys on alternate wings is so they can cut in on their shooting foot. We have wingbacks who get in crossing positions on their strong foot. It's not worth Mo and Sads getting in crossing positions because all they would be able to do is stand it up because they would be on their weaker foot. So, let them cut in, and let the wingbacks overlap and put the crosses.
That's fine if it's working, but it's not because there's no midfielder drawing out opponents to create that space inside centrally for them. They are being crowded out.

IMO switching them gives them the opportunity to get round the full backs and cross on their natural foot. Bobby is good enough in the air to attack good crosses, as is Sturridge, whilst anything that over-runs then gets picked up by the opposing winger on their natural foot.

It's something to try at least I'd have thought.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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That's fine if it's working, but it's not because there's no midfielder drawing out opponents to create that space inside centrally for them. They are being crowded out.

IMO switching them gives them the opportunity to get round the full backs and cross on their natural foot. Bobby is good enough in the air to attack good crosses, as is Sturridge, whilst anything that over-runs then gets picked up by the opposing winger on their natural foot.
I can also see a problem in that scenario, we will only have 1 at most 2 players attacking the box because as you said and I have also mentioned, we don't have a midfielder that would be able to get into the box or stays around the "D" to pick up the spills. We used to have Gerrard to do that job for us, or sometimes Alonso would unleash a shot when a cross was blocked out towards the edge of the 18 yard box.

By playing on their natural side, they could get crowded out too and pretty much needing the fullbacks or midfielders to play off or cross the ball in. That isn't too different from what we have right now either. Without the personnel in the middle of the park, there are no quick fix other than extra training in taking shots on goal by the midfielders for now. That's the sad truth.

I think in time, the likes of Keita will improve his attacking side of the game or Shaqiri will understand what is required to play for Klopp in the middle of the park. These two for me has the potential to be the key to make us less predictable and overcrowding or marking the front 3 won't be an option for the opposing defence anymore. That would be the best solution to our attacking problem today.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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IMO it's a multifaceted issue and every department is part of it.

For the forwards it's fatigue due to the lack of a summer break, a reduced pre season, teams working them out a bit more, compounded by a lack of creativity in midfield and poorer attacking play from the full backs.

This has been further compounded in recent weeks, by an intense series of matches in which it was not possible to rotate them much, nor for that matter use Shaqiri or Keita as a more attacking midfielder in support of them.

It could well be that it will be impossible for them to deliver what they did last season due to all of this, but we need to do something different to use what we have better.

The Milner injury is certainly a warning sign that rotation is necessary and we need to do this over the next two months, or they'll all start hitting the treatment room by Xmas.

I've said before that I'd use Keita and Sturridge in rotation with the front three. Sturridge as a direct swap with Bobby in some matches, Keita at left wing forward, with either Salah right or Mane switched. Shaqiri can be used as a 10 with two midfielders behind.

In fact, even when Bobby, Mane and Salah all play, I'd try swapping the wingers over to their natural sides.

I think the lack of a Coutinho or Oxlade breaking forward with the ball, drawing players out and creating space for Mane and Salah to slip into to receive the ball, is causing much of the issue, as the central area is congested.

So if we can't go through them we should have a go at going round them, Salah on the left, Mane on the right.

IMO, in order to have a squad with everything we need to beat all types of opponent, we do need a proper 10. Until we sign one, or Oxlade returns, if he returns at the same level, we are going to have issues.

Shaqiri can do a job at 10, certainly against some opponents, but I doubt he can do the attacking work and defensive work required against better opponents. Lallana for me is not an option any more.

This run of matches, which has kind of been a dry run for a run in where we're competing on several fronts, tells everyone that rotation and tactical variation is necessary.

I really do hope that we sell Lallana and Origi in January and sign a quality 10 come forward as a replacement. That way they get half a season to adapt for next season and contribute more to the run in that Lallana and Origi would.

Oh for another January signing of a curly haired 20 year old for £8m.
Agree. But rotational means giving Lallana some minutes, I'm afraid. Also, a lot of people are are tuning in and focusing on the front three. What about the rest of the team? Our front three operate a little bit like our back three in that the 6 drops in so the CBs can split, in order for the wingbacks to get up. Imagine bobby dropping back as does the 6, and instead of the CBs parting, the wingers come into central positions. When they do cut in they find themselves on their stronger foot. It is a good way to utilize the players we have got, but it's just not happening, as yet. Some people are talking about rotating to rest 1st stringers and some want to do it to scare them into performing. We need to take a pragmatic approach and take each game as it comes. Obviously, with the newbies there is an added element in that they need to suss out the system and in the case of Naby and Fabinho- get to grips with the EPL. Hopefully, this next run of fixtures will allow us address a lot of the issues which we couldn't during the heavy fixture list we have just got through.
 



loudmouthmiller1892

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That's fine if it's working, but it's not because there's no midfielder drawing out opponents to create that space inside centrally for them. They are being crowded out.

IMO switching them gives them the opportunity to get round the full backs and cross on their natural foot. Bobby is good enough in the air to attack good crosses, as is Sturridge, whilst anything that over-runs then gets picked up by the opposing winger on their natural foot.

It's something to try at least I'd have thought.
Understand, but Mo and Mane can do better things than crossing. I mean they're not bad crossers, but they are better dribblers and goal scorers. Think of Mo's goals where he cut in (Everton, Roma) and I don't think he would have scored these if crossing was his initial thought. This is the Mo that we want. It is down to Trent to improve his crossing ability and take on that responsibility, because even though our midfield isn't creative, it can come across and cover Trent/robbo's wings when they want to stretch their legs. Also, to make Bobby/Studge be in the box for headed goal we would have to play up the wing, because Bobby likes to drop and send the wingers inside or WBs up the line. Studge also but more out of a lack of discipline. I think you're hoping that our wingers become more traditional wingers, but they are not and that's why with the likes of ronaldo, Zaha et al they are exceptional.
 

SirBillShankly

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It's crystal that they've all played too much footy, they're playing as though they're knackered, however, our opposition know they are going to play and our formation. I think we need to rest them and mix the formation up and be less predictable. With that mind I would like to see Solanke used A LOT more. He is young, full of energy and a potentially terrific player.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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It's crystal that they've all played too much footy, they're playing as though they're knackered, however, our opposition know they are going to play and our formation. I think we need to rest them and mix the formation up and be less predictable. With that mind I would like to see Solanke used A LOT more. He is young, full of energy and a potentially terrific player.
I think giving them a break from media relations duties would be a start. I wonder how many hours a week they do this for. I would rather have them resting than giving pointless interviews to Football Focus etc.
 

Limiescouse

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I think giving them a break from media relations duties would be a start. I wonder how many hours a week they do this for. I would rather have them resting than giving pointless interviews to Football Focus etc.
Footballers' day are long, and most of them fall over themselves trying to find non-destructive ways to fill their days. Most of the lads who are put forward to do this sort of stuff get a kick out of it.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Footballers' day are long, and most of them fall over themselves trying to find non-destructive ways to fill their days. Most of the lads who are put forward to do this sort of stuff get a kick out of it.
Fair play, but maybe ask them to swerve them until its starts to click. If fatigue is factor, then any downtime should be grabbed with both hands. I know that if I weren't firing then I wouldn't up to talking crap to some journo. But, maybe, that's just me. Cheers.