The Defence

How many goals will we concede?

  • 50+ (Rodgersesque)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 41-50 (too high to be champions)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 31-40 (About par for top four)

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • 21-30 (Solid return)

    Votes: 20 66.7%
  • 11-20 (current record; 15)

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • 1-10 (Mourinho’s wet dream)

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • Concede? What’s that then?

    Votes: 4 13.3%

  • Total voters
    30

Noo Noo

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Reina, Carra and Hyypia were the perfect match. Reina commanded the penalty box if hyypia was not around. He'd punch the ball all the way to the half way line!

Hyypia was never beaten in the air. Carra would always be the one making the impulsive tackles knowing hyypia is well positioned as well.

Van Dyjk is our new hyypia, and he also has pace. We know van dyjk is the one composed in the air and on the ground but this does not mean other players don't have to win the aerial balls.



It's great you point out the understanding the forwards have with each other, anticipating passes, occupying the right spaces and pouncing on the rebounds. If lovren had matip's pace, he wouldn't be as hap hazardous as he is. At the same time, matip is pacy and proficient on the deck...it wouldn't be so bad if he was the one stepping out of his line to collect the ball.

We can't expect the defenders to win every long ball so there are interesting times ahead on how Klopp will solve this with the right combination. We need a full pre-season to build chemistry with an established back-line which I believe we have now. I totally agree that it's not the errors that we make, but the fact that we are not agile enough to cover and recover for each other's error.
Thought I'd mention that our defense at the time of Reina and co also had a certain Mascherano and Alonso doing what they did in front of that back line. Plus Rafa's chess like management of the defensive situations should also be mentioned.

I saw an interesting point about the Lovren / Lukaku battle at the weekend. Basically for the first goal Lukaku pretty much drags Lovren way out of position into an area where it was difficult for him to win that first ball and gave him no chance with the second. It also opened the gap for Rashford. How intentional that was could be debated but it worked. Perhaps Can should have positioned himself in front of Lukaku to reduce that risk and try to avoid Lovren being dragged out of position like that.
 

Iluvatar

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Thought I'd mention that our defense at the time of Reina and co also had a certain Mascherano and Alonso doing what they did in front of that back line. Plus Rafa's chess like management of the defensive situations should also be mentioned.

I saw an interesting point about the Lovren / Lukaku battle at the weekend. Basically for the first goal Lukaku pretty much drags Lovren way out of position into an area where it was difficult for him to win that first ball and gave him no chance with the second. It also opened the gap for Rashford. How intentional that was could be debated but it worked. Perhaps Can should have positioned himself in front of Lukaku to reduce that risk and try to avoid Lovren being dragged out of position like that.
A better defender reads that and waits for the 2nd ball.
 

paurig

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Jul 19, 2017
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A better defender reads that and waits for the 2nd ball.
Liverpool should pay Moaninho a consultancy fee for showing their one remaining weakness, the classic keeper led long ball game! If we can learn to deal with this, it might save us later on.

The heartening thing is that opposing teams have had to launch the long ball from even deeper, in recent weeks and a competitive defensive header can see these coming and mop them up. This is how teams dealt with Watford and then Wimbledon in the past, to the point they were completely nullified. Hasn’t worked out too well for Leicester either, in recent seasons!

On the cynical side, a more savvy team would have made a foul at either Lukaku, and if not, then Rashford. This is what opposing teams have been doing to us all season and getting away with it through our playing nice. ( see penalties not given ).
 

redfanman

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[B]Joel Rabinowitz[/B]‏Verified account @[B]joel_archie[/B] Mar 11
Liverpool have conceded 41% of their league goals this season in 4 games. All away from home vs City, Spurs, Arsenal & United. Only 20 conceded in the other 26 games.

I've read this five times and I'm still not sure whether to look upon it as a positive or a negative...
Positive surely given the bulk of those goals happened at the start of the season? If anything, might be beneficial in the long run to keep players aware.

I'm more concerned at the manner of goals conceded against WBA in the cup than in any of those others.
 

lfc.eddie

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If lovren had matip's pace, he wouldn't be as hap hazardous as he is. At the same time, matip is pacy and proficient on the deck...it wouldn't be so bad if he was the one stepping out of his line to collect the ball.

We can't expect the defenders to win every long ball so there are interesting times ahead on how Klopp will solve this with the right combination. We need a full pre-season to build chemistry with an established back-line which I believe we have now. I totally agree that it's not the errors that we make, but the fact that we are not agile enough to cover and recover for each other's error.
Lovren is no slouch in speed department for a defender. He is not as slow as one might think he is, and on a foot race he could catch up with most of the forwards in the league. Lovren's problem is in his intelligence in his game reading, he uses a lot of instinct rather than calculated move. His stepping out to intercept or win the ball, knick the ball off a forward when they are about to receive a pass is what makes him vulnerable. If his first few tries worked out well, the entire match he would looked rock solid. If he started to miss a couple, he will continue to have a bad game. If you watch our first two goals, he got on the wrong side of Lukaku and trying to overpower the United striker. That is plain stupid when his frame is nowhere near the size of Lukaku. His lack of awareness of his surrounding, coupled with inability to read of the flight of the ball makes him very erratic. Calvert-Lewin's penalty, even though that fucker cheated, but Lovren did messed up in his positioning which leaves him easily exposed.

Our error recovery needs a bit more time on training ground for those back 4 to work on. Our back four and midfield that are in the defensive zone needs to worry more about the defensive side first, winning the ball or block a shot/pass, before thinking of how to convert it to attack. We don't have an Alonso who can do that in a split second. Often we saw us winning the ball back and before getting into proper control, we tried too hard to plan the attack instantly. If it comes off, wonderful, but when it failed it cost us. Back to basics for some of our players are needed when it comes to defending. No need to rush and try to orchestrate a counter attack all the time, it will become too predictable and easier for opponent to stop us.
 

William Clarke

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I could flippantly say a brick wall across the goal mouth, but to be serious I think since VVD has come into our side the defence isn't looking quite as fragile and unstable as it was. He's bringing a solidity into our back line, but I think another centre back of VVD's quality and Clyne taking his place at right back would be almost as perfect as we can get.
 

[email protected]

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vjcpatriot

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Lovren will always be suspect to brainfarts on the pitch. Brainfarts that lead to opposition goals and lost points. To me he's no better than a 3rd or 4th option off the bench. Unfortunately with our depth and injuries we have to play him as the #2 CB currently. I am hoping we aim to buy a higher quality #2 CB replacement or prospect to groom for that spot next summer.
 

Danny_

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It's pretty obvious what the answer is now. Get rid of Lovren in the summer. Sorry, but I have just had enough. The second leg should have been a formality.
 

Danny_

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The Defence? The answer apparently is CONCENTRATION. Against West Brom, we lost our concentration and we let in 2. Against Roma same shit.
Only one of our players lost concentration in both instances. Earlier in the game, he was very lucky that the ball didn't go in the back of the net when he smashed it into the Roma player. Can you fix these kind of mental lapses? I don't know - if anyone can, Klopp is the man. But, I wish we didn't have to rely on him right now in the biggest match we've had since the game against Chelsea under BR for the title.
 

Iluvatar

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Wasn't it Lovren coming on and fucking up to let Brom back in it? It's not as though he makes a colossus fuckup either and lets it go, he let's it effect him to the point his head goes and the defence goes to shit.
 

Flobs

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When we press Henderson and Milner are great at getting into the oppositions faces. As soon as we sit back they look like they are holding Lovren's and VVD's hands. Our midfield doesn't know how to defend deep and by the time we do defend deep they haven't any legs left. What is needed is perhaps fresher legs taking on the relay.
 

StevenAlonso

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Aug 10, 2015
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The problem is, when we just want to defend for 15 minutes we invariably concede.. Mane/Ings aren't good at retaining ball under pressure .. With Salah, Firmino and Ox you get that composure.. Without them the ball keeps coming back into our box and all it takes is one lapse in concentration.. VVD saves us from lot of blushes.. He has been immense so far..
 
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Quicksand

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The biggest contributory factor in conceding 2 vs WBA and 2 vs Roma was taking Salah off the pitch. The mindset changed from getting the ball forward to lets hold what we have. The second biggest factor is tiredness after 80 minutes of constant running and pressing.
We didnt have a quality midfielder to come on and play 2 banks of 4 for the last ten, and Ings doesnt produce the same threat or fear Salah does. Then thats no fault of his to be fair!
Pwrsonally I would have replaced Mane with Clyne and moved TAA wide right, creating 2 lines of 4 with Salah and Firmino chasing hat tricks.
Attack is our only way to defend until the proper personnel are in place for next season.
 

mattyhurst

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The problem is we are coming to the end of a very long season, Firmino is one of the best at getting back so I would have dropped him back to give us a body in that midfield.

Some fresh legs in the back line would have also helped today, someone like Clyne would have been useful.
 

Claymenza

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A better defender reads that and waits for the 2nd ball.
They say never accept the first offer even if it's great.
Uncanny how this happened again with dzeko. It's all down to sound judgement really but if you ask me, he's winning all the first balls in practice and in the real game he isn't.
 

Noo Noo

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The biggest contributory factor in conceding 2 vs WBA and 2 vs Roma was taking Salah off the pitch. The mindset changed from getting the ball forward to lets hold what we have. The second biggest factor is tiredness after 80 minutes of constant running and pressing.
We didnt have a quality midfielder to come on and play 2 banks of 4 for the last ten, and Ings doesnt produce the same threat or fear Salah does. Then thats no fault of his to be fair!
Pwrsonally I would have replaced Mane with Clyne and moved TAA wide right, creating 2 lines of 4 with Salah and Firmino chasing hat tricks.
Attack is our only way to defend until the proper personnel are in place for next season.
Excellent observation. I would add that simply having Salah on the pitch also tends to occupy their full back and probably one of the central defenders. By taking him off that full back can get a little forward and a little more involved. us getting too deep doesn't help either.
 

Incognito

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Just did a quick check in the table, yeah two games in but fcking hell, we are the only team to have conceded 0 goals in these two games.
Yes, we Liverpool, conceded 0 goals while all others have conceded already.

Don't want to jinx this, but this is fantastic IMO. Please long may it continue. And the sweet part is, our first choice DM is yet to join the party! :-)
 

Red Ted

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Just did a quick check in the table, yeah two games in but fcking hell, we are the only team to have conceded 0 goals in these two games.
Yes, we Liverpool, conceded 0 goals while all others have conceded already.

Don't want to jinx this, but this is fantastic IMO. Please long may it continue. And the sweet part is, our first choice DM is yet to join the party! :-)

22 goals conceded in our last 30 league games, since the Spurs away game.

It's looking very good.
 

Limiescouse

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So the answer to the question is £140m talent then?
When you spend it correctly, issues like this really can be just that simple. If you look at the early days of this thread, the spanking from City and Spurs, in the former game at least our back 4 consisted of Migs, Matip, Klavan and Moreno. One has now left the club, two more might before the end of the window and the last one was no even on the bench last week. There is not a player there I would be unhappy to see never play for us again.
 

lfc.eddie

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When you spend it correctly, issues like this really can be just that simple.
Well adding two of the most sought after players in the defensive half of the pitch, one is the keeper while the other is the centre half surely make it much simpler than a £4m Klavan, a freebie of Matip, a £12.5m leftback and a £10m keeper. Not even 2/3rd of what we have today. Buying at the very top of the quality chart does make the job a bit simpler, no?
 

ILLOK

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Well adding two of the most sought after players in the defensive half of the pitch, one is the keeper while the other is the centre half surely make it much simpler than a £4m Klavan, a freebie of Matip, a £12.5m leftback and a £10m keeper. Not even 2/3rd of what we have today. Buying at the very top of the quality chart does make the job a bit simpler, no?
Of course it does, but on the other hand they're only 2/5 of our defensive line.

Gomez, Robbo and Trent cost us about £11.5m. That's 1/3 of a Mustafi or Lindelof, half a Michael Keane :well done:
 

The Elusive 19th

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Well adding two of the most sought after players in the defensive half of the pitch, one is the keeper while the other is the centre half surely make it much simpler than a £4m Klavan, a freebie of Matip, a £12.5m leftback and a £10m keeper. Not even 2/3rd of what we have today. Buying at the very top of the quality chart does make the job a bit simpler, no?
But the elites were only willing to come only during last 2 summer windows, because of our consistency and Klopp.

We heard the story of getting rejected by entire world and it's dog before landing Andy Carroll. And BR / TC couldn't attract the elite either after finishing 2nd. They ended up with Lallana, Lovren, Lambert, Markovic and Balotelli for Suarez money. Even Barca's squad player Sanchez said no to us.