The Defence

How many goals will we concede?

  • 50+ (Rodgersesque)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 41-50 (too high to be champions)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 31-40 (About par for top four)

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • 21-30 (Solid return)

    Votes: 22 62.9%
  • 11-20 (current record; 15)

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • 1-10 (Mourinho’s wet dream)

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Concede? What’s that then?

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Total voters
    35

dockers_strike

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Im not sure all of the players who rejected us can be described as 'elites.'' I dont think Willian for example was an 'elite' and he didnt turn us down due to just Rodgers being the manager. Players like Willian turned us down primarily because we were not in the CL. Even Goetze(sp?) turned Klopp down because we were not in the CL.
 

SirBillShankly

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Im not sure all of the players who rejected us can be described as 'elites.'' I dont think Willian for example was an 'elite' and he didnt turn us down due to just Rodgers being the manager. Players like Willian turned us down primarily because we were not in the CL. Even Goetze(sp?) turned Klopp down because we were not in the CL.

And what on earth has that got to do with our defence? Is it really that hard to stick to the topic of the thread? :think:
 
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Caradoc

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I think Lovren proved during the World Cup that he no longer needs VvD alongside him to perform to a very high level. Over the past few months he’s taken significant strides. He’s always been a talented centre back technically but his temperament has often let him down. Now he’s starting to show leadership qualities in addition to vastly improved composure and performance levels.
 

SirBillShankly

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I think Lovren proved during the World Cup that he no longer needs VvD alongside him to perform to a very high level. Over the past few months he’s taken significant strides. He’s always been a talented centre back technically but his temperament has often let him down. Now he’s starting to show leadership qualities in addition to vastly improved composure and performance levels.
Take Virgil out of the side, we concede and you can see him enter into headless chicken mode again can't you?

Gomez looks like the long-term partner for the big man to my eyes.

Besides, coming back from the WC and being injured and then being called up for the Croatia squad makes me ask where does his loyalty lie? If it's Croatia then as far as I'm concerned he can clear off.
 
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Caradoc

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Take Virgil out of the side, we concede and you can see him enter into headless chicken mode again can't you?

Gomez looks like the long-term partner for the big man to my eyes.

Besides, coming back from the WC and being injured and then being called up for the Croatia squad makes me ask where does his loyalty lie? If it's Croatia then as far as I'm concerned he can fuck off.

He didn’t fall apart after conceding in the Croatia World Cup games.

As for your last paragraph you are so far from the truth that you might want to catch up with the rest of us. Suffice to say he’s been carrying the same injury for a few months now, including playing for us, and then through to the World Cup Final with Croatia with no VvD in sight. And throughout this period Klopp and his team have been fully aware of the injury. He went to the World Cup with their blessing.
 
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SirBillShankly

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@ Fester. He's come back from the WC injured, and now, although unavailable for us he's been called up for the Croatia squad. Doesn't that sound like representing Croatia is more important for him than representing us? If he can't play because he's unfit for us then he shouldn't be playing for Croatia.We pay his wages. Sounds like he's taking the piss.
 
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ILLOK

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@ Fester. He's come back feom the WC injured, and now, although unavailable for us he's been called up for the Croatia squad. Doesn't that sound like representing Croatia is more important for him than representing us?
It sounds like he will be fitter in 16 days time than he is now.
 
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Caradoc

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@ Fester. He's come back feom the WC injured, and now, although unavailable for us he's been called up for the Croatia squad. Doesn't that sound like representing Croatia is more important for him than representing us?
I have learnt, to my cost, that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. Until I know the full details I don’t intend to comment any further. Somebody else can comment on the significance of a call-up by your country versus actual availability from your club when it comes to injuries.
 

AussieLad

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@ Fester. He's come back feom the WC injured, and now, although unavailable for us he's been called up for the Croatia squad. Doesn't that sound like representing Croatia is more important for him than representing us?
He only came back from the WC injured because he played a large portion of last season injured.

And as or the call up for their next lot of games, it is part of FIFAs' laws that clubs are bound to release players called up for international duty and it is then for the National team medical team to confirm any player with a reported injury before releasing them back to their club, so it is not Lovrens' decision as to if he gets called up or not. He can inform the Croatian manager in advance, but it is upto the Croatian boss to decide if he wants to leave Lovren out or not.
 

lfc.eddie

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Of course it does, but on the other hand they're only 2/5 of our defensive line.

Gomez, Robbo and Trent cost us about £11.5m. That's 1/3 of a Mustafi or Lindelof, half a Michael Keane:well done:
We didn't get those players, if we did earlier, we might have won the league title(s).... who knows? :well done:

But the elites were only willing to come only during last 2 summer windows, because of our consistency and Klopp.
.
Says a lot about the man in charge, doesn't it.... :celebrating:
 

vjcpatriot

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We're not giving Gomez enough credit here. Now that he is healthy and partnering with VVD, Gomez has looked very solid the first 2 games. He might be the long term solution at CB that we've been looking for. The key for Gomez, knock on wood, is for him to stay healthy!
 

Limiescouse

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We're not giving Gomez enough credit here. Now that he is healthy and partnering with VVD, Gomez has looked very solid the first 2 games. He might be the long term solution at CB that we've been looking for. The key for Gomez, knock on wood, is for him to stay healthy!
I mentioned it after the West Ham game, but it showed up again yesterday. He plays with a composed look, yet is a tank. We have now come up against a few players in Antonio, Arnautovic, Benteke, and Zaha, the type who have given us fits in the recent past, (physical, direct and quick) and Gomez has kept them at bay and done so while rarely looking challenged. There was a time last weekend when he covered over, went shoulder to shoulder with Antonio and left him on the ground before calmly making a forward pass.
 

boston red

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Logically we can change the heading of this title to answer solved and it came last January..
Tbf just before van dijk came in our defence wasn't playing that bad, he just shored it up massively since then his partner could be Gomez for the next 4,5 years..
We're in pretty good shape ..keep in mind no defence is impregnable.. by the looks of it that's what we're going to be doing, ,fast going back to front, flank to flank, impetuous with the ball, the speed the ball and the players .Nightmare for the opposition .. exciting times.
 

Billy Biskix

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Defence has been sorted for a long time now. 31 games , 22 conceded. Best record of any team in the PL during the same period. We conceded 16 in the 9 games prior to that.

It's not just better players. Give Klopp credit for getting a better defensive shape. A lot of effort has obviously gone in to defending set pieces. We look very solid now.

Better players have obviously helped too. Robertson for Moreno was a giant leap forward. The improvement of TAA. Bringing in VVD. Not fashionable to say it now but Karius for Mignolet also helped, particularly on set pieces and defending crosses. Now Alisson is looking like a big upgrade.

This was the biggest single area of improvement last season and I am looking forward to seeing what impact having a decent defence for an entire season will make this time round.
 

geebo

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There is an international break? Why the hell there is an international break immediately after a the world cup. Is Fifa really that stupid?
September 3rd to 11th is the break.
Why? seems totally illogical to me.
Yes they probably are along with corrupt, incompetent, power hungry and self serving.
 

Limiescouse

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There is an international break? Why the hell there is an international break immediately after a the world cup. Is Fifa really that stupid?
The one advantage of having started early this year as the break will be a little further into the season making its start feel a bit less like a false start.
 

indianscouser

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Not being hypercritical here, but having watched our 3 games this season, its evident that VVD and Alisson are the real deal and we can expect them to bail us out in case one of our players makes a minor mistake, something Migs and karius failed to do on a regular basis.
Coming to my point,i did observe TAA and Gomez being caught, Gomez in particular, failed to clear a cross against palace, which Zaha shifted and had a shot straight towards alisson, which reminded me of the ugly times last season. I am no expert to comment if its lack of concentration or inability to judge the flight of the ball, but that is one instant which we looked vulnerable. I think Lovren will address this in a better way, he is a hot head, but aerially he is far more dominating than Gomez. VVD is a clever fox to read the game well and cover incase Lovren goes YOLO.
 

LFCFFC

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None of our back 5 are infallible and all will make mistakes at some point. The critical thing now is that they know their fuck ups usually aren't going to result in a goal conceded because one of the other members of the defense will be there to bail them out i.e. VVD's underhit pass to Alisson, or Gomez tracking Bissouma when TAA got caught upfield.

Along with the obvious improvement in personnel (mostly VVD as we've become a solid defense even without our new GK), there's significantly more cohesion and understanding. That's probably in part to buying Virgil and the leadership he brings, but credit also has to go to the coaches for such a rapid turnaround from leaky to watertight in a matter of months.
 

ILLOK

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Not being hypercritical here, but having watched our 3 games this season, its evident that VVD and Alisson are the real deal and we can expect them to bail us out in case one of our players makes a minor mistake, something Migs and karius failed to do on a regular basis.
Coming to my point,i did observe TAA and Gomez being caught, Gomez in particular, failed to clear a cross against palace, which Zaha shifted and had a shot straight towards alisson, which reminded me of the ugly times last season. I am no expert to comment if its lack of concentration or inability to judge the flight of the ball, but that is one instant which we looked vulnerable. I think Lovren will address this in a better way, he is a hot head, but aerially he is far more dominating than Gomez. VVD is a clever fox to read the game well and cover incase Lovren goes YOLO.
Would Lovren have been able to win that footrace against Zaha though? Almost certainly not. Can Lovren play out from the back as well as Gomez? No. They have different strengths and weaknesses, we might be better off aerially with Lovren but we will be weaker in other situations.

All of our defenders, including Van Dijk, have mistakes in them. Gomez has barely put a foot wrong in the first 3 games, let's not do this thing again where we make out Gomez' mistakes are far worse than they really are.
 

lfc.eddie

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I prefer Gomez calmness, pace to track his marker and not jump into rash tackles, to Lovren's aerial ability any day.
 

indianscouser

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All of our defenders, including Van Dijk, have mistakes in them. Gomez has barely put a foot wrong in the first 3 games, let's not do this thing again where we make out Gomez' mistakes are far worse than they really are.
Not blaming him, just an observation. Gomez has been impressive so far and i want that to continue.
 

Lowton_Red

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@ Fester. He's come back from the WC injured, and now, although unavailable for us he's been called up for the Croatia squad. Doesn't that sound like representing Croatia is more important for him than representing us? If he can't play because he's unfit for us then he shouldn't be playing for Croatia.We pay his wages. Sounds like he's taking the piss.
Neither Lovren, nor the club, have any say in the matter (unless Lovren has advised his national associated, with the necessary formality, that he has elected to retire from international football). Even if injured, players have to report to their national team if called up, if only for their national team's medical staff to assess the player's fitness.
 

Gone Kloppo

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All of our defenders, including Van Dijk, have mistakes in them. Gomez has barely put a foot wrong in the first 3 games, let's not do this thing again where we make out Gomez' mistakes are far worse than they really are.
Yet the same courtesy is almost never afforded to Lovren.
 
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lfc.eddie

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Yet the same courtesy is almost never afforded to Lovren.
Gomez errors as a young fullback learning his trade should not be compared to a full blown seasoned pro who is also a self-proclaimed as one of the best defender in the world. An experienced centre half should not commit the mistakes Lovren made, rash and overzealous tackles and interceptions, leaving behind for his teammates to clean up his mess. They both are not and should not be judged on equal footing, not until Gomez has one full season starting as a centre half.
 

Gone Kloppo

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Gomez errors as a young fullback learning his trade should not be compared to a full blown seasoned pro who is also a self-proclaimed as one of the best defender in the world. An experienced centre half should not commit the mistakes Lovren made, rash and overzealous tackles and interceptions, leaving behind for his teammates to clean up his mess. They both are not and should not be judged on equal footing, not until Gomez has one full season starting as a centre half.
Jurgen Klopp said:
Since I came in, maybe Dejan made three or four mistakes, two of them in the Tottenham game, maybe one in a Champions League game last year. But it’s for sure not 15 or 20.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/306892-jurgen-klopp-dejan-lovren-world-cup

This should 100% not be seen as an attack on Gomez's current form. I'm sure everyone involved with the club are very happy a young lad has taken the next step. But Gomez will almost certainly have bad games this season, and will likely even lose his place. And it will be a reflection of how far along Lovren/Matip and Gomez are in their respective careers. Gomez is going to have a great career but there is no rush.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/306892-jurgen-klopp-dejan-lovren-world-cup

This should 100% not be seen as an attack on Gomez's current form. I'm sure everyone involved with the club are happy a young lad has taken the next step. But Gomez will almost certainly have bad games this season, and will likely even lose his place. And it will be a reflection of how far along Lovren/Matip and Gomez are in their respective careers. Gomez is going to have a great career but there is no rush.
The flip side of that is that Gomez is more likely to then learn from those mistakes and develop further. He won't get that opportunity whilst sitting on the bench and Lovren plays. Gomez will have times he won't play or shouldn't play. Resting, taking out of the limelight sometimes, suspensions and injuries. Whoever our third CB in the pecking order is will likely play a fair bit. Our 4th and 5th choices are likely to play some games too unlike in most European leagues. When Gomez is set and ready and available to play I think he should now. There may be little to no benefit from that in the current time (although I think he is doing easily good enough and I'd rate him as doin great). But the long term benefits for Gomez getting that playing time this season could be massive. He could well be a CB on a level with the likes of VvD and Alderweireld once he's had time and experience to fully settle in and get acclimatised. Lovren is fine, especially with VvD beside him and as a 3rd choice he's as strong an option as it gets. But he is what he is now and (in our system) won't achieve that elite level of VvD and that Gomez could do. The back 4 of Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, VvD and Robertson has every tool it needs to be considered a real special unit. One for the record books. And it's only going to get better with playing time.