The Defence

How many goals will we concede?

  • 50+ (Rodgersesque)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 41-50 (too high to be champions)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 31-40 (About par for top four)

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • 21-30 (Solid return)

    Votes: 22 62.9%
  • 11-20 (current record; 15)

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • 1-10 (Mourinho’s wet dream)

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Concede? What’s that then?

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Total voters
    35

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
8,520
If we're going to play that high then we need to bring our pressing 'A game' and we haven't done that yet bar moments in the second half against City and at times against Norwich. Last night it didn't function at all and Chelsea played through us with ease. It could have been the heat and humidity but then why not just drop off a bit? It's such an energy-sapping way of playing.

The shape of the team just doesn't look right at the moment and generally we look a bit under-prepared and maybe struggling with fitness. We tend to get stronger the longer the season goes on but we are long way from controlling games in the way we did last season. So far, we've got away with some pretty erratic performances. I think it will come but given there's so little room for error for us if we're seriously going to compete with City, it needs to come quickly.
It looks like we have decided to play a higher line (a good 5-10 yards forward) with a view to getting VAR decisions from offside. The problem seems to be that our midfield press doesn't seem to be working, so there is a large gap (weird eh with our defense further forward) between midfield and defence.

I do think Milner and Henderson shouldn't play together in midfield (especially against good teams) because they both drift out wide to give themselves space to use the ball. This meant we crowded out the wide areas and our passing lanes were woefully bad. It also had a direct influence on how open we were, because if we lost the ball there was basically Fabinho in the center of the pitch v's 2 players with a Milner (was injured and not running) or Henderson trying to get goal side. So offensively and defensively we struggled. It's a common theme when Klopp goes "safety" first away in the big games - We deployed a similar style away in Europe last season and pretty much every game we were terrible, both in attack and wide open in defence.

Seems a really weird tactical switch when our players are clearly at about 70% with fitness, but I guess with such a small pre-season Klopp is forced to get them to learn on the job v's hours on the training pitch of drilling the tactical set up (formation in/out of possession) and pressing cues.

It could be high risk high reward though, stutter through the opening 10 games and beyond that we will have it nailed.

We massively miss a progressive box to box though - Keita, Oxlade etc. I think that means we always have 2 men in the middle with engines to cover lanes better.

Very much a work in progress.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
Some pretty interesting things highlighted in this article....


Arsenal going to exploit our fullbacks holding too high of a line and sitting too far from their defensive partners. Also midfield needs to provide more help and cover.
 

fspencer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Messages
544

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,953
Some pretty interesting things highlighted in this article....


Arsenal going to exploit our fullbacks holding too high of a line and sitting too far from their defensive partners. Also midfield needs to provide more help and cover.
That highlights some aspects well but if memory serves me right thoses issues when we held the high line didn't end in anything. It's when we are on the edge of our box that worries me. We stick ridgedly to a flatline and positionning when we need to be picking up more man to man.
As for our CB's going out wide that's their choice which I feel is wrong they should hold central more waiting for their opportunity. then that's my opinion.
Personally I am glad of this higher line last season we where at least 2 meters too deep this year we look about right when in posession, it's for the midfield and attackers not to lose the ball cheaply in exposed areas.
It'll come! :)
 

Red_Jedi

Anfield kick about
Ad-free Member
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
1,940
Our current back 4 and goalkeeper cost less than Harry McGuire - and that includes vvd!

Trent, Matip and Adrian didn’t cost a penny. And Robbo was really a swap for Kevin Stewart. Remember him?
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2,432
We are getting Phillips back sooner than the plan was. Guess Matip and Lovren are longer out than expected.

Wouldn't read too much into this just yet. Could just mean that Klopp needs someone to cover/substitute for in the FA Cup games. Even if we had Matip and Lovren back fit, We still have only 4 CB's who can play in the first team
 

auzziez

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
1,485
Wouldn't read too much into this just yet. Could just mean that Klopp needs someone to cover/substitute for in the FA Cup games. Even if we had Matip and Lovren back fit, We still have only 4 CB's who can play in the first team
It could be the other way around as well. Klopp likes to have a small first team squad which means it would be better for a young player like Phillips to be playing first team football somewhere on loan rather than warm our benches.
He had already played 9 matches in Bundesliga, lasting through 90 minutes in 4 of them. 630 minutes of total.
I don't think he would have got same game time with us until now. So if he coming back in January, I suspect that's to replace either of Matip or Lovren for the majority of the second half of the season.
I think we will just have to wait and see.
 

auzziez

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
1,485
On a second thought, it could possibly be that Fabinho is going to take longer than expected to come back. With Matip and Lovren's fitness in doubt Klopp doesn't want to go back to Henderson to fill the vacant CB position. Phillips plays at CB if required, releasing Hendo back into the midfield.
Pure speculation from my part.
 

Dutch

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
2,057
Could all be true but I honestly don't believe that when Matip and Lovren where close to playing again he would bring him back. For what? To be the 5th CB and play in the U23? No, if that was the case they would have let him play in Germany for the rest of the season learning a lot more than sitting in the stands at Anfield.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
5,108
He wasn't playing as much as expected even though he was apparently very good whenever he featured.
Nat played 9 times out of 17 games with 1 assist and a range of ratings from 5 to 7.5 /10.
 

mattyhurst

TIA Regular
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
14,499
I think Hendo having to play CB showed our risk we know Matip and Lovern are injury prone so this makes sense.
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2,432
It could be the other way around as well. Klopp likes to have a small first team squad which means it would be better for a young player like Phillips to be playing first team football somewhere on loan rather than warm our benches.
He had already played 9 matches in Bundesliga, lasting through 90 minutes in 4 of them. 630 minutes of total.
I don't think he would have got same game time with us until now. So if he coming back in January, I suspect that's to replace either of Matip or Lovren for the majority of the second half of the season.
I think we will just have to wait and see.
Like I said , just yet. I don't want to believe the worst case right now.

If Gomez and Vvd last till both lovren and matip are back , this entire point is moot.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
9,501
Could all be true but I honestly don't believe that when Matip and Lovren where close to playing again he would bring him back. For what? To be the 5th CB and play in the U23? No, if that was the case they would have let him play in Germany for the rest of the season learning a lot more than sitting in the stands at Anfield.
Liverpool Echo saying he's back as CB cover so good luck to him, probably will start against Everton. Rumour is he will go back to Stuttgart at the end of the window.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
15,259
Liverpool Echo saying he's back as CB cover so good luck to him, probably will start against Everton. Rumour is he will go back to Stuttgart at the end of the window.
I didnt think that sort of things was allowed. Is it maybe just a special case because of the German winter break?
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
5,248
Remember we brought in Caulker few years back just to have an extra body. I see this move as the same thing. Klopp likes to have his worst case scenarios ready just in case. Touch wood.
 

[email protected]

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
3,679
I truly don't think that it's a coincidence that our recent shutting up at the back has coincided with the return of Joe Gomez. He looked a bit shaky initially and out of form, as does happen, but he is by far the most suited to our style of play and defending. A lot was made of the high line and how exposed we looked but that dissipated almost immediately on his return. Matip and Lovren did really well, Matip especially, but neither are the absolute quickest whereas Joe has pace to burn and he has nullified a lot of that threat by his recovery pace and also by his reading of the game and knowing when to drop off and when to step up to win it. We're now allowing less clear cut chances and shots on goal (Watford aside, mind you) and that high line is significantly less noticeable than it was a few months ago.

VVD is still exceptional and makes 7/10 look like a quiet game where he could do better which is simply an indication of the high bar he has set and I think he himself, along with Trent, Robbo and Allison, feels far more comfortable as a unit with Joe around than any other combination of CB's next to him. Great in the tackle, great pace to cover, great reading of the game and good on the ball with only perhaps a slight improvement of the aerial stuff needed (he's still pretty darn good anyway). He has it all and lets just hope he remains fit.
 
Last edited:

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
12,163
Think I saw that the back 5 of Alisson, Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Van Dijk and Robertson hasn't yet lost or dropped points or something. Not sure if league or full stop, this season or ever.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,953
It's been perfect for 7 games now. So Klopp can now concentrate on the other end where am a disappointed because we didn' put 7 past Manure.