The end of football romance

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by shachart, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. shachart

    shachart Our greatest win

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    For a long time now I have been feeling the difference between my views and feelings towards football and LFC with those of the younger generation.
    It started for me when Kenny returned to the club, then with Gerrard last 2 seasons, the whole Lucas legend debate and even with the Messi- Ronaldo endless debate.
    I will say this now and again at the end, I do not see myself as "better", "superior" or that my views are the right views, I simply want to point out the differences.
    For me football is something magical, and LFC is a part of the family. If you look at the "transfer excitement" thread you will see the response about Rush or Fowler. Nobody stated they were excited he was back because he was a great addition to the club, but because he was family and it was hard to see him leave.
    When posters came up with anti Kenny or Gerrard posts, it was hard for me to stomach them, even when they had a lot of merit. These were idols, to see kenny on the sidelines or Gerrard pull on a red shirt allways got me excited, this was love for me. How can you turn your back on them ?
    I had a dog a few years back. He wasn't that much good, but he was mine, and I wouldn't have traded him for any other dog.
    I will go even broader. When Pele, Maradonna, Zidan or Ronalinho were playing, we knew they were the best in the world. Other players scored more goals and won more titles but it was clear just from watching them that they were special and they were the best. When I read about Messi and Ronaldo everybody is talking about stats, never about how they make you feel when you watch them play.
    I find it is harder for me to debate with the younger generation, even on this site simply because I realise they look at football very differently.
    3 seasons ago, we were in a title race, if you do a poll about the best moment of that season, I assume it would be one of Suarez goals, for me it was Gerrard crying after the City match before the huddle. That is why I love football.

    I say again, it is not criticism, just an observation. But I do feel sorry for supporters who may have lost the romantic side of football.
     
  2. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    It's good to get things off your chest!
    The world has changed, we get more news for the otherside of the world than we do about what's going on in our own towns and villages.

    I have a problem with your assumption that it's the 'younger generation' that have lost the romance. My son and his friends see a player like Pogba and have that romantic rush like me but many older than me don't and seem to need everything confirmed by some pundit or other.
    I find it hard to talk to my Dad because my gut feelings about a player or situation don't follow what he's read or heard.
    The problem for me is that the romantics and natural feelings are just being suppressed by an over zealous know it all press and publicity.
    Sit back and enjoy it in your own way and keep confidence that it's the right way.

    My memories are dear to me, Kevin Keagan, Kenny Dalglish, Robbie Fowler .....
    Even Micheal Owen who by the way deserves the criticism he got later on. Like Gerrard deserved the criticism he got for some things written in his books as they lacked explanation and/or objectivity. It's interesting that he has since put greater objectivity into some of his relations. As for his playing career he finished his LFC career in the wrong position (not his fault). :-)
     
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  3. shachart

    shachart Our greatest win

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    I agree to some extent that the media bombardment in all its forms has made it harder to feel football rather than just see. My nephew wanted to understand why I keep on rumbling about Rushie and Fowler, so he went to Youtube. He could not understand after seeing everything why do I hold them in such high regard. I made him eatch the entire Istanbul miracle, he could only see that Milan were robbed.
    I do not blame him, In his eyes a player is measured by his Fifa 2017 ratings.
    Besides, since when supporting a club was an exercise in objectiviti. I had nothing against Owen even when he played for ManU, only when he dtsrted talking rubbish as s pundit I realised he was just rubbish.
    I worry of the day Gerrard will become LFC manager, how many bad results before the supporters will turn on him ?
     
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  4. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

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    For a second I thought someone had stolen my phil coutinho blow up doll.
     
  5. Semmy

    Semmy walk on...walk...on...

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    that is almost worth putting in my signature as a reminder of the ultimate bromance
     
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  6. jaffod

    jaffod Well-Known Member

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    No offence intended but your nephew probably needs to find a different sport to follow because he clearly understands nothing about this one.

    For me it's a combination of things that have turned the game from what it was in the past to the 'entertainment' it has become today. Money, Sky tv (in GB, don't know what it's like elsewhere) and incompetent authorities have ruined it for many fans of a certain age. I feel sorry for my lad and all the others like him, he's 18 and lives and breathes LFC, but he'll never see football as I saw it at the same age and that's a great shame imo.
    I tell him from time to time he's watching a watered down, over-sanitized version of the game where cheats prosper, vermin like Mourinho pollute everything, the traditional fanbase is neither wanted or needed and nothing will change as long as the cash keeps rolling in. Of course younger fans will claim blokes like me are dinosaurs living in the past and that's fine, you can't miss what you never had, but fella's like me are clinging on by the fingernails.
    The game as we know it has gone and it ain't coming back I'm afraid. It's been stolen from those who built it and supported it for the best part of 100 years. Just feel content that you saw it in it's rawest, most passionate form and that's something they can never take from us.
     
  7. Da Bulli

    Da Bulli Well-Known Member

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    I still get a lot of enjoyment in walking down the local park standing on the sideline right next to the benches and watching the local boys run around . Don't cost me a penny either.

    ps big congrats to Regan Ogle from the mighty Thirroul Thunder who signed a 2 year contract with Accrington Stanley just this month.
     
  8. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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    Who are they?
     
  9. geebo

    geebo Bekloppt ! (German for loopy)

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    just a spontaneous comment

    CL
    I think football has changed, and that caused a loss of romance. In the 70s and 80s the team with the best players and best manager won the league. In fact, managers (like Clough for example) seemed to be the difference between winning and not winning. But since the CL, its the top 4 who destroyed that balance, and made themselves richer and in a higher league than the rest of the premier.
    With Leicester winning, it seemed to me that football was back to its best and the league was more a level playing field, ironically due to the fact that premier league teams were now all fantastically rich (not just the top 4). But I still think that over rich clubs, sponsored by rich owners are still damaging football. Buying leagues and cups is not the same as winning them.

    I remember Hughes, Clemence, Heighway, Callaghan, Lindsay, Toshack, Thompson so fondly because they either came from locally, or from lower leagues.

    transfers...
    the internet is the age of information. Someone only has to fart and it can be heard, read about and described in 100 languages world wide. In the past, before the internet, we didnt always here rumours, and we often only knew once the deal was done.
    Now its a hall of mirrors. And the truth is lost amongst half truths, smears, lies and conspiracy theories. I preferred it when we had a month off !!!! Now, driven by the papers desire for stories, we are inundated with crap. In the end, all that matter is the Klopp handshake photo at Anfield - when the deal is done !!!

    I think football isnt as important to me. When I was young it was the most important thing in the world. Now after going through parenthood, relationships, a career etc. It is no longer the most important thing. My life is more balanced. But there is nothing like an important game and spending 90 mins like a 10 year old again !!! It keeps you young !
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  10. Wyld@Heart

    Wyld@Heart Well-Known Member

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    That struck a chord with me... You are right. The youth of today are watching a different game than that of even 10-15 years ago. I am by no means an older generation supporter; I am only 35! The heyday of the Kop and Liverpool were before my time and I basically just caught the end of it by the time I was able to fully understand it.

    But even I as I grew older still could see the romance of the game and what it meant at the basest level and growing up here in South Africa it was all the more the game of the people. In the townships and on any random street the game was played. Mostly by the black kids it must be said, on dirt patches without any gear whatsoever and in many cases with just a patchwork of a ball. Growing up in a small town in a farming area I was blessed to be able to join these. Yes I was more fortunate but I was never shunned; indeed I was welcomed more so than a kid from another township would have been. In that innocence of youth the game, for me, transcended the race issues that my country was infamous for and bridged the gap between someone like myself who had a decent life and kids who were often just surviving on mealie meal porridge. Some of the bonds made 25 or more years ago amongst kids I probably never would have met in another setting still survive today and that is the beauty of the game. We lived it, breathed it and in my little corner of the world it brought us together.

    Today... players earn more than most of us might earn in multiple lifetimes. Tranfer costs could keep countries economies afloat. Agents wheel and deal and buy islands. Clubs bank 100's of millions of dollars yet are still not financially viable on their own while others can write off the cost of a poor signing as if money were made on their own personal printing presses tucked away in the back office.

    Then characters arise such as Mourinho who simply exist in a bubble of reality of his own making while 'journalists' flood the internet and print media in make believe rumours, innuendo and drivel passed off as fact that the fan had no choice but to view or hear. The very custodians of the world game themselves are corrupt; incompetent officiating (or deliberately incompetent officiating, take your pick) and cheating on the field is tolerated and accepted in an era where others sports as a whole are trying to eliminate such failings while football dithers.

    The game is sick at its core. More so than that actually; it is being sacrificed at the alter of the almighty buck. Kids growing up have their heros no doubt and they love their teams but why do they now love them? Because of a history and culture that is beautiful, tragic and wildly alluring? Because of a young team like Ajax playing the beautiful game beautifully? Because Wimbledon somehow pulled off the impossible one day in the sunshine at Wembly? I can name many iconic moments in the game but do the youth of today follow a team or pick up a love of the game from such moments? No, they do not. They see twitter, and Sky updates and transfer news and opinion blogs and pundit shows which are churned out in numbers that are impossible to ignore. 'Saw Don Hutchison on the telly today. That City are a real team, they have the best manager in the world. And they just spent like gazillions... Yeah, sounds good to me'.

    Bit ofa ramble, this but the spark that is football is dying. I have mentioned it before but I sometimes wonder whether or not to continue in this fashion... People dying, atrocities worldwide, kids with their moms on some boat somewhere slowly dying while the world forgets and moves on with its clamour for more excess, more glamour, more more more. Sadly, I am on that bandwagon. I am as guilty as all and probably even more so. I will post this then immediately look at the Mbappe thread or the VVD thread. Its impossible for me not to feel a little twinge. I want my Club to succeed I really, really, really do but I can't help but wonder how hollow it might feel afterwards.

    Romance eh? *sigh* Its gone... and unlikely ever to return.
     
  11. melbournered

    melbournered Member

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    You have encapsulated my feelings in a nutshell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  12. redaderry

    redaderry Well-Known Member

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    I have still got a degree of the romance in supporting my local team here in the LOI. £10 in, standing with my (aging) mates on the terrace, pub afterwards for postmortems/celebrations etc but we're struggling here too with the lack of youngsters coming to the games. They're all fixated with the EPL teams (including Liverpool) and will happily spend their parent's cash on an EPL top rather than head over to the match on a Friday night. There's no doubt that the actual technical skill and ability on show now in the top tier is way ahead but it has been turned into an over-hyped commodity by the likes of Murdoch, taking the game from those who actually owned and lived it and selling it to richer people who liked the look of it.
    Aidrian Tempany's 'and the sun shines now' is a brilliant piece of work and analyses in depth the demise of local community support, pushed out to make way for the better off and more refined consumers.

    Not sure where it will all end, will the amounts of money get even bigger, or will there be some sort of a crash like what happened in the property market where things suddenly fell closer to their true value for a while.
     
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  13. costared

    costared TIA Reserve Team

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    That is kinky :-)
     
  14. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

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    It's romantic....phil knows how I feel.....it's not kinky....it's true love....he just doesn't feel the same way yet...he will....I know he will....he has to...its destiny....he WILL see it the way I do....he has to...
     
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  15. costared

    costared TIA Reserve Team

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    Enjoying this thread. Being one of the older brigade a lot of it sounds familiar to me.
     
  16. costared

    costared TIA Reserve Team

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    :shocked:
     
  17. redaderry

    redaderry Well-Known Member

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    Brought my Phil Coutinho blow up doll back to the shop cause it had an 8 inch dong. The shop owner pointed out that i had blown it up inside-out.
     
  18. jaffod

    jaffod Well-Known Member

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    Right now there is no sign of it ending. We are being sold an inferior product in that English teams really aren't that good in comparison to the top European sides yet the money keeps rolling in in increasing amounts year on year. Sky and the media in general perpetuate the myth. Clowns like Scudamore make statements that leave many fans wondering about corruption at the highest level, would it really surprise anyone if in years to come it emerged that certain clubs were 'helped' along the way so the fucking PL brand remained strong?
    The game is obscene in many respects but the authorities don't appear to want to address the issues but then again why would they? They've been caught with their hands in the till often enough so it would be naive to think the game is anywhere near clean.
     
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  19. Irishanfield

    Irishanfield Well-Known Member

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    Bet Ian Rush would know
     
  20. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    I won't blame the media, back then the print media was also celebrating the players like they are movie stars too. Tele hosting them on talk shows and so on too. The media stayed consistent in their overly hyping and killing teams or players. The inconsistency comes from the "journo wannabe" that mess a lot of things up.

    As for your main point, it's the numbers that kill the passion. You spoke of Lucas as legend, have you ever seen him angry, like mad angry, pick the ball up and said screw it, drive it forward and do whatever it takes to get us back into the game? No. You saw him looking at good probabilities in his passes, tackles and so on. They call it being smart, or intelligent playing style. That racks up a lot of stats to his favour, the loose cannon passion style of football no longer something a player would adopt because they are found reckless. When Couintho dribble and try to shoot at every chance he gets when things are not panning out for his teammates, you will hear moans about him being wasteful and so on. That was something Gerrard used to love doing, before he became such a great player, he does that a lot. He improved his finishing skills and found great partners to work with along the way, and manager who made his game more mature.

    I was lectured in this forum by someone, taking an example of his 5 year old kid being taught how to manage his emotion, while us in our 40s still can't keep it in check. Without emotion, passion, where do you find romance? That's the prime example of - "be level headed" mantra being bandied in this forum by a lot of new fans.
     
  21. Da Bulli

    Da Bulli Well-Known Member

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    How the hell should I know? I'm 15,000 km away and have never set foot in England.

    English League Two Club apparently.
     
  22. Da Bulli

    Da Bulli Well-Known Member

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  23. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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  24. Da Bulli

    Da Bulli Well-Known Member

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    lol
    I get it now.
     
  25. shachart

    shachart Our greatest win

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    I don't think that is the reason. I get what your saying and I agree with it to sone extent but I am talking about sonething else.
    Lets take Leicster last season. Everythong that is beautiful in football came to life, from the story of the club, the manager and the players. CL finals, I couldn't care less about Juve or Real but I was heartbroken for Buffon at the end.
    A few yeats agoAnfield sang happy birthday to Kenny, it was a showing of the connection between fans and a club legend. 10 years from today, do you think Anfield will sing happy birthday to Gerratd ( if he will br the manager offcourse ) ? I doubt it. Not because Kenny is greater than Gerrad, but because the "new" fans have a different connection with football.
    The more I think about it I think fans saw themselves as part of the game, whether they went to a match or not. Today they are sophisticated spectators.
    I do not know, I just noticed how different things are today.
     
  26. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    With all them jargons throwing around zagueiro, metronome and what have you, everyone thinks they are now expert in the field.
     
  27. won it at-a-turk stadium

    won it at-a-turk stadium TIA Regular

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    That is the way football is these days with stats and lack of romance. We judge competitions by prizemoney and aim for regular turn outs in the UCL as a marker of success. Its a sad way to which the game has gone

    I also hate the dislike for the home grown talent. We compare them to Ronaldo's, Ramos' and Messi's and we lose track of getting behind the local lads. When Fowler left I was gutted, when Danny Murphy left I had the same feeling. I don't know why but I will always remember Danny Murphy curling it in from 25 yards at Goodison, winning 3 matches at Old Trafford. That guy will be just as big a legend in my eyes as Suarez.

    I really love the foreign players who adore the city of their clubs and stay for really long periods. Players like Lucas, Hyypia, Julian Speroni and Julio Arca have produced the best examples of football romantics

    I look at Manchester United right now and a year ago they were absolutely buzzing about Chris Smalling, they were claiming they had the best English defender. A year later they can't wait to get rid and rather chance their arm with Lindelof - a player they probably haven't seen apart from youtube clips. Its where football has gone. Players are given less time to stay at a club and there is obscene money in the game.
     
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  28. indianscouser

    indianscouser Oh ya Beautttty!!

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    I cried when Torres and Agger left. Was paralysed when carra announced retirement.
    Got a stroke with suarez leaving
    Brain dead when Gerrard left us.
    Now, Klopp is slowly reviving us.
    For me the most beautiful moment in our recent years was the dortmund game.
    That is something i have been craving for.
    I dont care for stats, id rather have an passionate liverpool lad giving his 100% every week and wearing our jersey with pride compared to some one who sees us as stepping stone to something bigger.
    Over the years, i always hoped that it was spearing or kelly, or flanno or adam morgan made it.
    Some times, just seeing your local lads do well gives more pleasure than importin talents.
    That is what i want.
    I know it will be impossible for us to breed a player like gerrard or carra skill wise, but i would happily take a local lad who has the same passion and is decent footballer.
    Tbh, i got fcking excite just to hear Gerrard back with the club.
     
  29. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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    I strongly suspect that our erstwhile number 23 himself would disagree with you there.

    lol
     
  30. Wyld@Heart

    Wyld@Heart Well-Known Member

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    Carragher himself would admit he had less skill, less height, less strength and less pace than a top CB is 'supposed' to have. Its a credit to his mentality, dedication and determination to become what he did. Defo not gonna win a skills contest though. lol