The Everton Cup! Summer Transfer Game - What is your plan?

The winner of The Everton Cup is

  • JustHitMyHead (page 3)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anfield rd Dreamer (page 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Iluvatar (page 3)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • MW2833 (page 3)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8

Kopstar

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Incidentally, I think the valuation of players needs to be a bit more sophisticated than simply doubling their transfermarkt value. If you do that then you get a valuation of £126m for de Ligt, for example. I just can't see any club paying £50m more than Van Dijk cost us just over a year ago for a 19 yr old centre back. Maybe I'm wrong and competition for his signature will drive the price up to that sort of range but I think a valuation just short of what van Dijk cost us is more realistic.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of informal valuation panel? Incidentally, he's got 2 years left on his current deal so under my formula he'd be worth the £63m transfermarkt have him as. Pepe, however, has three years left so he'd be worth £46.8m (1.3 x his transfermarkt value of £36m). Maybe the formula could be tweaked slightly? No increase to transfermarkt value for 1 year remaining, increase by 15% if 2 years remaining, 40% if 3 years remaining, 60% if 4+ years remaining? Something like that?

That would make de Ligt £72.45m and Pepe £50.4m which, to me, feels about right.

What d'yer reckon?

That formula would give the following values (£m) to our first XI players:

Alisson 93.6
TAA 72
Gomez 50.4
VvD 108
Robertson 72
Henderson 40.32
Fabinho 64.8
AOC 50.4
Mane 122.4
Firmino 115.2
Salah 216

My proposed sales would then be:

Lallana £13.5m
Lovren £20.7m
Shaqiri £36m
Clyne £13.5m
Grujic £25.92m
Karius £7.25m
Kent £2.5m (transfermarkt are shit with academy player valuations, particularly for home grown players)

Does that look about right?
 
Last edited:

epsomred

Give yourselves the chance to be heros
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May 16, 2018
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563
Incidentally, I think the valuation of players needs to be a bit more sophisticated than simply doubling their transfermarkt value. If you do that then you get a valuation of £126m for de Ligt, for example. I just can't see any club paying £50m more than Van Dijk cost us just over a year ago for a 19 yr old centre back. Maybe I'm wrong and competition for his signature will drive the price up to that sort of range but I think a valuation just short of what van Dijk cost us is more realistic.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of informal valuation panel? Incidentally, he's got 2 years left on his current deal so under my formula he'd be worth the £63m transfermarkt have him as. Pepe, however, has three years left so he'd be worth £46.8m (1.3 x his transfermarkt value of £36m). Maybe the formula could be tweaked slightly? No increase to transfermarkt value for 1 year remaining, increase by 15% if 2 years remaining, 40% if 3 years remaining, 60% if 4+ years remaining? Something like that?

That would make de Ligt £72.45m and Pepe £50.4m which, to me, feels about right.

What d'yer reckon?

That formula would give the following values (£m) to our first XI players:

Alisson 93.6
TAA 72
Gomez 50.4
VvD 108
Robertson 72
Henderson 40.32
Fabinho 64.8
AOC 50.4
Mane 122.4
Firmino 115.2
Salah 216

My proposed sales would then be:

Lallana £13.5m
Lovren £20.7m
Shaqiri £36m
Clyne £13.5m
Grujic £25.92m
Karius £7.25m
Kent £2.5m (transfermarkt are shit with academy player valuations, particularly for home grown players)

Does that look about right?
I feel you can sell injury prone Lallana for £13.5m then I must be worth £500k and I’m 54, fat and useless at football.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Incidentally, I think the valuation of players needs to be a bit more sophisticated than simply doubling their transfermarkt value. If you do that then you get a valuation of £126m for de Ligt, for example. I just can't see any club paying £50m more than Van Dijk cost us just over a year ago for a 19 yr old centre back. Maybe I'm wrong and competition for his signature will drive the price up to that sort of range but I think a valuation just short of what van Dijk cost us is more realistic.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of informal valuation panel? Incidentally, he's got 2 years left on his current deal so under my formula he'd be worth the £63m transfermarkt have him as. Pepe, however, has three years left so he'd be worth £46.8m (1.3 x his transfermarkt value of £36m). Maybe the formula could be tweaked slightly? No increase to transfermarkt value for 1 year remaining, increase by 15% if 2 years remaining, 40% if 3 years remaining, 60% if 4+ years remaining? Something like that?

That would make de Ligt £72.45m and Pepe £50.4m which, to me, feels about right.

What d'yer reckon?

That formula would give the following values (£m) to our first XI players:

Alisson 93.6
TAA 72
Gomez 50.4
VvD 108
Robertson 72
Henderson 40.32
Fabinho 64.8
AOC 50.4
Mane 122.4
Firmino 115.2
Salah 216

My proposed sales would then be:

Lallana £13.5m
Lovren £20.7m
Shaqiri £36m
Clyne £13.5m
Grujic £25.92m
Karius £7.25m
Kent £2.5m (transfermarkt are shit with academy player valuations, particularly for home grown players)

Does that look about right?
Yeah, a valuation committee was something I thought about, and then thought nah, this is getting too complicated. I think we just rely on people using their common sense. At the end of the day if someone is proposing to sell Lovren for £50m to launch daring bids for M’Bappe and De Ligt at £25m a pop, they won’t get any votes in the poll.

Incidentally, I’m goi g to have a go at the Liverpool squad valuations on my way home tonight - would you be up for casting your eye over it if I PM it to you?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Joined
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Messages
11,142
Incidentally, I think the valuation of players needs to be a bit more sophisticated than simply doubling their transfermarkt value. If you do that then you get a valuation of £126m for de Ligt, for example. I just can't see any club paying £50m more than Van Dijk cost us just over a year ago for a 19 yr old centre back. Maybe I'm wrong and competition for his signature will drive the price up to that sort of range but I think a valuation just short of what van Dijk cost us is more realistic.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of informal valuation panel? Incidentally, he's got 2 years left on his current deal so under my formula he'd be worth the £63m transfermarkt have him as. Pepe, however, has three years left so he'd be worth £46.8m (1.3 x his transfermarkt value of £36m). Maybe the formula could be tweaked slightly? No increase to transfermarkt value for 1 year remaining, increase by 15% if 2 years remaining, 40% if 3 years remaining, 60% if 4+ years remaining? Something like that?

That would make de Ligt £72.45m and Pepe £50.4m which, to me, feels about right.

What d'yer reckon?

That formula would give the following values (£m) to our first XI players:

Alisson 93.6
TAA 72
Gomez 50.4
VvD 108
Robertson 72
Henderson 40.32
Fabinho 64.8
AOC 50.4
Mane 122.4
Firmino 115.2
Salah 216

My proposed sales would then be:

Lallana £13.5m
Lovren £20.7m
Shaqiri £36m
Clyne £13.5m
Grujic £25.92m
Karius £7.25m
Kent £2.5m (transfermarkt are shit with academy player valuations, particularly for home grown players)

Does that look about right?
It's a very complicated way of looking at it (and no way of doing it will be perfect for all players) but by and large those figures are mostly in the right ball park at least.
 

Kopstar

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Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
11,508
Yeah, a valuation committee was something I thought about, and then thought nah, this is getting too complicated. I think we just rely on people using their common sense. At the end of the day if someone is proposing to sell Lovren for £50m to launch daring bids for M’Bappe and De Ligt at £25m a pop, they won’t get any votes in the poll.

Incidentally, I’m goi g to have a go at the Liverpool squad valuations on my way home tonight - would you be up for casting your eye over it if I PM it to you?
Sure mate, no probs.

When you do, see whether you think my formula comes close to what you might judge to be about right anyway.

Transfermarkt figures
x1 for 1 year remaining
x1.15 for 2 years remaining
x1.4 for 3 years remaining
x1.6 for 4+ years remaining

I think it's pretty close but you might think it could be tweaked. Frenkie de Jong, for example, was valued by transfermarkt at £54m as at 28 December 2018 and was signed by Barcelona for £67.5m (according to transfermarkt who have now used that as his value). At 28 December 2018 the above formula would have given him a value of £75.6m.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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8 people getting banned as soon as I find out who they are.
 

nobluff

Official TIA Match Thread Starter
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Will voting for twat exclude you from the game? I dont see this mentioned in the rules.
 

Chewbazza

True Believer
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Messages
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I'll have a pop. My numbers will probably be off but should hopefully balance out. And I can't go into detail like @Kopstar because I can never work out which players are 'under 21' and/or 'homegrown/club trained'

But essentially.

Sell:
Shaqiri 20m
Lovren 25m
Sturridge - free
Milner - free (up to him really what he does)
Moreno - free
Clyne - 10m

Grujic - 30m
Kent - 10m
Ings - 20m
Mignolet - 10m
Total = 125m + 100m from FSG

Buy:
Lloyd Kelly 4m
Maddison 44m
Neres 58m
Sessegnon 35m
Timo Werner 65m
Total = 206m

Squad:

Alisson
Karius
Kelleher
TAA
Hoever
VVD
Gomez
Matip
Lloyd Kelly
Robertson
Lewis
Fabinho
Wijnaldum
Henderson
Maddison
Ox
Keita
Salah
Neres
Firmino
Werner
Mane
Sessegnon

Oh and Andy Carroll on a free just for a laugh.

EDIT. Forget selling Origi. He can stay forever after that.
 
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Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Excited lads. Hold your horses - we haven’t started yet!!
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Fucking hell! Just got a phone call from Man United. Asking if I could let them know who wins the game, as they have a technical director post vacant!
 

Not Worthy

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Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
1,064
Fucking hell! Just got a phone call from Man United. Asking if I could let them know who wins the game, as they have a technical director post vacant!
The winning contributor would have to have a face like a turtle or that bit of shit touching-cloth to meet the qualifying criteria.

So, my options are open.......
 

donks

TIA First Team
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
2,240
I'll have a pop. My numbers will probably be off but should hopefully balance out. And I can't go into detail like @Kopstar because I can never work out which players are 'under 21' and/or 'homegrown/club trained'

But essentially.

Sell:
Shaqiri 20m
Lovren 25m
Sturridge - free
Milner - free (up to him really what he does)
Moreno - free
Clyne - 10m
Origi - 18m
Grujic - 30m
Kent - 10m
Ings - 20m
Mignolet - 10m
Total = 143m + 100m from FSG

Buy:
Lloyd Kelly 4m
Maddison 54m
Neres 58m
Sessegnon 45m
Timo Werner 65m
Total = 226m

Squad:

Alisson
Karius
Kelleher
TAA
Hoever
VVD
Gomez
Matip
Lloyd Kelly
Robertson
Lewis
Fabinho
Wijnaldum
Henderson
Maddison
Ox
Keita
Salah
Neres
Firmino
Werner
Mane
Sessegnon

Oh and Andy Carroll on a free just for a laugh.
Maddison and Sessegnon for a combined fee of £99m, who brought back Kenny and Commolli
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Just closing this so I can update the rules and kick off. Was going to wait until that last game of the season, but some of you seem to want to get cracking :-)
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Messages
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Liverpool squad list with transfer values

Name (age) contract date, value, home grown status.

Goalkeepers

Alisson Becker (26) exp 2024 £96m
Simon Mignolet (31) exp 2021 £8m
Caoimhin Kelleher (20) exp 2019 £0
Loris Karius (25) exp 2021 £5m
Kamil Grabara (20) exp 2022 £2m


Centre backs

Virgil van Dijk (27) exp. 2023 £150m
Joe Gomez (21) £50m exp 2024 £50m (HG)
Dejan Lovren (29) exp 2021 £20m
Joel Matip (27) exp 2020 £18m
Nat Philips (22) exp unknown £5m (HG)


Full backs

Andy Robertson (25) exp 2024 £70m
Alberto Moreno (26) exp 2019 £0
Trent Alexander-Arnold (20) exp 2024 £70m (HG)
Connor Randall (23) £0 exp 2019 (HG)
Rafa Camacho (18) exp 2020 £10m (HG)
Nathaniel Clyne (28) exp 2020 £10m (HG)


Midfielders

Fabinho (25) exp 2023 £65m
Naby Keïta (24) exp 2023 £80m
Georginio Wijnaldum (28) exp 2021 £41m
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (25) exp 2022 £50m (HG)
Jordan Henderson (28) exp 2023 £40m (HG)
James Milner (33) exp 2019 £0m (HG)
Adam Lallana (30) exp 2020 £10m (HG)
Xerdan Shaqiri (27) exp 2023 £25m
Harry Wilson (22) exp 2023 £20m (HG)
Curtis Jones (18) exp unknown £8m
Ryan Kent (22) exp unknown £2m (HG)
Sheyi Ojo (21) exp unknown £2.5m (HG)
Marko Grujic (23) exp 2023 £25m


Forwards

Sadio Mané (27) exp 2023 £123m
Ben Woodburn (19) exp 2022 £10m (HG)
Mohamed Salah(26) exp 2023 £216m
Roberto Firmino (27) exp 2023 £116m
Daniel Sturridge (29) exp 2019 £0 (HG)
Divock Origi (24) exp 2020 £10m
Rhian Brewster (19) exp 2023 £20m (HG)
Danny Ings (25) transfer agreed 20m(HG)
 
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Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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OK. Take it away.

The rules (the first couple of posts) have been updated.

When you submit your squad I’ll update the poll so people can vote for you. And you can change your vote at any time. Voting will close on the last day of June.

@Chewbazza @Kopstar. It would probably be worth posting your squads again after this post.

Remember:

- Need to see your outgoing and incomings.
- You have £100m to spend.
- Your final squad of 23 should only include a maximum of 17 non-home grown players.

**********************​
 



Zinedine Biscan

Half-man, half-Biscuit
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Jul 31, 2009
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Sales/outgoings:

Sturridge - £0
Moreno - £0
Clyne - £10m
Lallana - £10m
Lovren - £20m
Mignolet - £8m
Ings - £20m
Grujic - £25m
Kent - £5m (the £2m feels very low given how much our youngsters are going for, Ibe, Solanke et al)

Budget - £100m + sales = £203m

Transfers in:

GK - Adrian (WHU) - £0 (out of contract)
RB - Aaron Wan-Bissaka - £31.5m (Palace, 3 yrs remaining)
LB - Ryan Sessegnon (Fulham, can also cover LW) - £35m (1 yr remaining on current deal)
CB - Matthias De Ligt - £75.5m (Ajax, 2 yrs remaining)
F - Nicholas Pepe - £56m (Lille, 3 yrs remaining)

Total = £203m

Squad (HG in green, * next to U21):

GK - Alisson
GK - Adrian
*GK - Kelleher (U21)

*RB - Trent A-A (U21)
RB - Wan-Bissaka

LB - Robertson
*LB - Sessegnon (U21)
CB - Van Dijk
CB - Gomez
CB - Matip
*CB - De Ligt (U21)
CM - Fabinho
CM - Henderson
CM - Oxlade-Chamberlain

CM - Wijnaldum
CM - Keita
CM - Milner
F - Salah
F - Mane
F - Firmino
F - Pepe
F - Origi
F - Shaqiri
F - Wilson
*F - Brewster (U21)


14 non-HG senior players, 20 non-U21s altogether. :-)
 
Last edited:

Kopstar

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Jun 15, 2007
Messages
11,508
I've had a re-think so have amended my plans [ @Mascot88 you may want to change your vote]





*Although Sessegnon's current deal has only one year remaining (putting his value at £31.5m using the formula of 1 x transfermarkt valuation) the club have a two-year option. As I don't know the circumstances when that option can be triggered or even if it remains applicable I have compromised and taken the length remaining on his deal as being 2 years (£31.5 x 1.15 = £36.225).

I've sold a lot of players and only brought in four new faces. This is partly because I was going for quality over quantity and partly because I don't want to disrupt the senior squad with too many new additions in one window. In fact, I even contemplated not signing Sessegnon but decided that Larouci is still a bit too far away to be meaningfully thought of as back up for Robertson and that Sessegnon can also offer a supplementary threat going forward. Klopp may even see him as an inverted winger adding depth to what Salah and Wilson may offer.

Brandt looks incredibly attractive if his release clause is accurate but I subsequently felt he fell between two stools. He's incredibly versatile and we know that Klopp is an admirer but I'm not sure he really takes us up a level either in midfield or in attack so despite his value I've spent significant money in bringing in two players who I think will offer far more to our attacking front line (Zaha) than Brandt can but also far more to our midfield options than he can (Havertz). Zaha provides the quality back up to our attacking wide positions we've been missing and will allow all three of our forward players to be regularly rotated because when Firmino's in need of a rest we could push Mane central with Zaha coming in on the left. Zaha could also operate from the right to rotate with Salah so he'd get plenty of game time and would be unstoppable against already tired legs if brought on after 55-60 minutes. Imagine having seen off Mane/Firmino/Salah only to see Zaha coming on with fresh legs eager to impress?

Havertz I'm going mostly on the praise from other forum members who are familiar with his abilities. By accounts he is *the* German talent coming through and offers more in the #8 and #10 roles than Brandt. His scoring and assist rates in the Bundesliga are incredibly impressive for a 19 year old (15 goals and 3 assists in 31 league appearances, all from midfield according to whoscored) and he's physically developed too, 6'2" and 13 stone.

Finally I have invested heavily in De Ligt. It's a no-brainer for me. International team-mates with Van Dijk so ought to aid the speed at which he can form a relationship with our defensive set-up. He's obviously got exceptional leadership qualities for someone so young. I think Gomez is at least on his ability level but this year has shown we need three quality options. Not just to cover injury but more importantly to improve injury prevention. Van Dijk has played a lot of football and it would be nice if he could be rested more often without it being a body blow. A partnership of De Ligt and Gomez whenever Van Dijk's absent through injury or rest should ensure the quality remains extremely high.

I've kept Matip around and would seek to extend his deal. His performances this season have been brilliant and not only can he give a good level of experienced cover at CB I also think he could be deployed as a back-up to Fabinho if necessary, if only to give Fab a rest. In doing so he saves me having to spend £50m on Declan Rice who I think would otherwise be an excellent understudy to our combative Brazilian.

I changed my mind about bringing in a RB. I think Camacho, Gomez, Fabinho, and Hoever can all provide adequate cover here. Klopp was comfortable enough with our existing options to allow Clyne to go out on loan so that's fair enough for me. Something to address next year if Camacho decides he wants to leave and/or Trent is pushing to be involved centrally (personally I hope he sticks at RB as he's becoming world class there).

So, my personal first XI next year:

Mane........Firmino.........Salah

Havertz.......Fabinho......AOC

Robertson.......VvD......De Ligt.......TAA

Alisson
Reserve XI:

Origi/Zaha.........Brewster........Wilson

....Keita.......Wijnaldum.....Henderson

Sessegnon/Larouci.......Matip......Gomez......Camacho/Hoever/F

Mignolet/Grabara/Kelleher/Jaros
Milner covering a vast number of positions if he can be persuaded to stick around another year.

The likes of Curtis Jones, Ben Woodburn, Larouci may need to go out on loan because they're too good for U23 football and need more senior experience.

A matchday 18 as follows would be formidable, imo

Alisson
Robertson
Van Dijk
De Ligt
TAA
Havertz
Fabinho
AOC
Mane
Firmino
Salah

Bench:
Mignolet
Gomez
Henderson
Keita
Wijnaldum
Zaha
Brewster
 
Last edited:

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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Sep 2, 2013
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Will put something together for this just really busy @Kopstar wins the formatting prize fho
 

Red over the water

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Messages
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I’m taking my inspiration from Anthony off The Royle Family. When they played Antiques Roadshow he would piggy back on someone else’s educated guess and undercut it by £1.

I’ll wait to see what others suggest before pouncing, with my cunning plan, at the eleventh hour.