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The 'Feed the scousers' and 'Sign on' chants

Medjool

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This is a good artilce by Simon Hughes of the (UK) Independent about the idiotic chants by the away fans at Anfield and everton. Obviously I cannot speak for everton on this nor their's and others, notably mancs and chelsea's 'victims' and 'murderers' chants, maybe Hughes could do an article about those?

But this piece is devoted to the endless inanne chants we get by away fans at Anfield and on our travels. Newcastle are by no means the only one. I have to say I love the people of the north east, they are one of the friendliest people I know. The support the Sunderland fans gave to the Hillsbrough cause is legion and publically at least, was far more visible than that lot across the park.

It doesnt make it right although we expect nothing better from the united fans and now they think they are somebody, also the city fans. Yesterday we had Newcastle fans signing feed the scousers. I dont get it, the West End of Newcastle has one of the biggest foodbanks in the UK. Dont get me started on the fact that the UK, the 5th or 6th richest country in the world has a need for foodbanks but how can you even think it is banter to chant 'feed the scouser's' when hordes of your own people are having to rely on a foodbank to eat?

It's the same with the 'sign on' song. If you're sat next to me in the SKD Upper, you might catch me asking the visiting fans 'is there no unemployment in your city \ town?' 'Do you spit in the face of your unemployed who have no job and no food on the table?' Of course they dont hear me and the people around me must think Im some nutter.

There's a lot of stuff recently about racist chanting and efforts to cut it out. Some may say it is discrimination so it must take priority. But, isnt taunting someone over having no job and little or no food discriminatory too?

It isnt just racial chanting that needs cutting out, it should also be these other disgusting chants too.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-everton-news-result-fans-sign-on-chant-latest-standings-watch-video-goals-a8700481.html

Football supporters are betraying their backgrounds, shared histories and struggles, as well as the dedication of some who follow under the same sporting banner as themselves whenever they mock the poverty of other places.


Three games over Christmas, three occasions where “Feed the Scousers” has been bellowed out by different sets of fans who come from cities where dire employment rates explain deprivation and detail to a large extent why match-goers with a social conscience are leading the foodbank campaigns which have subsequently been promoted by football clubs trying to do the right thing.


When Manchester United came to Anfield eleven days ago, many had travelled from Victoria, a train station where rough sleepers try to get warm. This had been the sight, indeed, which prompted Andy Burnham, the region’s metro mayor, to donate fifteen per cent of his salary to help tackle homelessness, a feature of life in a city whose bishop, the Rt Revd David Walker, has accused ministers of “taking their eye off the ball” on poverty, warning that the crisis in Manchester is now at an “unparalleled level,” with the poorest families “torn apart” by welfare cuts that have led to destitution on an unprecedented scale.


When Liverpool went to Molineux last Friday and were encouraged – just as Evertonians had been in August – to “sign on, sign on”, it not only seemed to be forgotten that Conor Coady, the Wolverhampton Wanderers Championship-winning captain, comes from Merseyside but also the desperate fact that 34 per-cent of children in the Black Country now exist below the poverty line and the majority of those, according to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, live in households were parents or guardians are actually in paid work.


Then yesterday, just Xherdan Shaqiri made it 3-0 to Liverpool – just when those in the away end appeared to run out of positive messages about their own team, it came again. Behind them in the Anfield Road stand had been purple van taking food collections in a joint initiative between Liverpudlians and Evertonians and earlier that day, Newcastle supporters had made a donation as part of a reciprocal agreement between the clubs.


It is a significant and perhaps inconvenient truth that since its launch 22 months ago, the NUFC Fans Foodbank has emerged one of the biggest in the country, having taken in nearly £170,000 worth of goods which accounts for more than 30 per-cent of all donations across a city which has more foodbanks than any other in Britain outside London. While this reflects the generosity of the people that live in the north east, it also reflects the depth of the social issues that exist there, and therefore the muttonheadedness of the chanting.


It will be said that songs directed towards poverty on Merseyside have happened for decades, that it is merely light-hearted “banter.” Yet the singing is a suppressant, rooted in an anti-Irish sentiment that preserves the view Liverpudlians have too much to say for themselves in the same way women with an opinion are feisty or black people who push back have chips on their shoulders.


This intensified as the city resisted the force of Thatcherism, an ideology which injected nearly all of shire Britain with the belief it was following the right path at precisely the point where Liverpool went in the opposite direction, becoming an absolutely Labour council, led by Militant. Sixteen months after the 1983 general election that illustrated this swing, came the release of the Band Aid song that gave football supporters the ammunition they needed – again, just at the point where jealousy towards Merseyside’s football teams heightened, with Liverpool and Everton winning eight out of the ten First Division championships during the 1980s.


With Liverpool on the ascendency again, perhaps the chanting will become even more audible. Perhaps it only happened against United because of old-fashioned rivalry, perhaps it only happened at Molineux because of ignorance, perhaps it only happened yesterday because some Newcastle supporters were fed up with the crap being served up in front of them, fed up with Mike Ashley.


It had taken them 61 minutes to go there, perhaps because there has been an effort amongst senior supporters to stamp out the sort of songs that are led by those without the gumption to realise how self-defeating they are, those who are not creative or alert enough to come up with something new, something that admits of or exposes a wider reality.


“Our cities are under attack and we need to stick together,” Bill Corcoran, a leading volunteer in the foodbank campaign told the Independent in November. “Those kinds of chants are divisive, nobody should be singing them.”
Excellent article dockers strike, I salute you.
 

jaffod

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Funny how it's only become an issue now that the sheer scale of the foodbank/ homelessness issue has attracted massive national attention and debate. Call me an old cynic but if Manchester, Wolverhampton and Newcastle didn't have such high numbers of homeless and kids living in poverty then I don't think anybody in the media would give a toss about the constant abuse we hear at Anfield and wherever the fucking vermin who follow United happen to be.
Nobody has given a fuck for the past three decades. While massive strides have been made in eradicating abuse and prejudice towards various sections of society (and rightly so) it has still been perfectly acceptable to abuse the city of Liverpool and it's people with impunity. And I'll guarantee if this gains any national attention we'll see an upturn in the old 'self-pity city' jibes from the usual suspects.
Fwiw I think the club could have done something about all this years ago especially where Hillsborough and Heysel chants were included, it must be fucking devastating for people who lost loved ones at Hillsborough and who still attend matches at Anfield to have to listen to this rubbish season after season. But as we know LFC adopts a policy of appeasement at every opportunity and even used to issue a joint statement with Man U calling for an end to abusive chanting even though we'd more or less self-policed it out of existence years earlier.
The club could have issued warnings beforehand that any of this drivel being shouted would result in a reduced allocation of tickets for the next season, or a complete ban for the worst offenders like the Manchester and Chelsea scum. Show them up for what they are...never going to happen of course given the clubs' reluctance to rock the boat and risk upsetting anyone.
 

Obanite

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Think a couple of folk have covered most of what I wanted to say. Right enough, maybe we as Liverpool fans can be a bit self righteous on the chants etc - we've had our stuff certainly and I've always been very vocal on the disgraceful Munich songs - but generally speaking I'm extremely proud of how our fans conduct ourselves. The Grenfell banner was testament to that. Like I said in another thread, Liverpool as a city is all about community solidarity. Our fans identify with other clubs from areas where the working class has come under attack. That's an attitude that goes beyond Hillsborough - it defined the city in the 1980s. Tony Evans' book 'Two Tribes' is probably the best thing I've read on it recently.

I think the best thing Liverpool fans can continue to do is rise above stuff like this. Never resort to the level where we're attacking a club's supporters because their area has suffered under austerity and all the rest of it. Why would we need to anyway? We've got the best team in the land right now.
 

Semmy

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Takes all kinds to make up this crazy world of ours

Unfortunately, you CAN teach stupid. Some of these songs I have heard are downright ignorant and the only solution is to treat them like a petulant child, as that is likely their state of mind at the time.

The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference... just ignore the twats and don’t drop your mentality to their level.

What the media SHOULD do it to scan the crowd when those chants are being sung, and put their faces on TV. See how smug they are when they go to work Monday and they have a pink slip attached to it. Not only did this fella lose his job, he was banned for life from MLB games

@Arminius would remember this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiFkqTHv8HfAhUlwMQHHR1mDLYQzPwBegQIARAD&url=https://nationalpost.com/sports/baseball/mlb/sentencing-hearing-underway-for-man-who-pleaded-guilty-to-mischief-in-blue-jays-beer-can-toss&psig=AOvVaw2CFbqZhzRYLblYp0cLqUVf&ust=1546051169323299
 

AussieLad

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And racism rears it's ugly head in Italy once again https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46696329 as Inter will play 2 games behind closed doors due to racist chants aimed at Koulibaly in their match against Napoli.

WHilst you have to commend the Italian authorities for swift action, this happens time and time again, so is closing the stadium the right punishment or should they possibly look at points deduction when clubs supporters are found guilty of racism?
 

legalalien

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Personally, I just put it down to the cranially challenged element of most sets of supporters. Its unpleasant, unnecessary, distasteful but the moment you try to work it out is the moment you lose the plot. There’s nothing to work out!

The word ‘banter’ is actually an insidious, mendacious concept. Its used to cover up and/or justify all manner of unpleasant potentially harmful behaviour towards other people - bullying, mocking, abuse.

The world can be a horrible place, is a horrible place. Club officials, supporters groups and police authorities need to work closely to try to eradicate this type of behaviour. I wouldn’t hold your breath on it stopping any time soon though!
It's strange but I was thinking exactly the same earlier today with the same words in mind- bullying and mocking- after seeing some drivel on BBC Sport about Twitter banter. This tendency to mock others is a part of the British, or should that be English, sense of humor that I don't miss at all.
 

FGred

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I think it harms the general image of the city. Even where I live, I occasionally hear people who have never been in Liverpool harp on about how poor and derelict the city is, how high the criminality rate is, how it isn't safe to travel there etc. Pure nonsense of course, and I never fail to try correcting these wrong preconceptions. But the simple fact is that they are largely based on the same stereotypes that these chants are carrying and promoting. If I was the mayor of Liverpool, I'd certainly ask myself what can be done to highlight how wrong they are. And as you are talking about economics, I'm sure that it has an economic cost for the city (less tourism for instance).

So yes, my take is that these chants should be forbidden and that any infringement should be punished with a fine. Plain and simple.
What really is disturbing is the “Anybody but Liverpool” media campaign to stop us from winning the league I can guess where that has started though...
 

Rambler

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What really is disturbing is the “Anybody but Liverpool” media campaign to stop us from winning the league I can guess where that has started though...
I am intrigued by this. Where is your evidence of this “Anybody but Liverpool” media campaign? Smacks of paranoia to me.

Other clubs forums call us the "Media Darlings". Who is correct?

I think the media would love someone different to win it. BBC in particular are praising us to the heights.

I don't read the gutter press so can't comment on that but otherwise all I hear are plaudits and praise of Klopp. Granted some negative comments for running on the pitch but other than that.................

Klopp has always benefited from extremely positive press coverage. They seem to love him.... in total contrast to Mourinho who they have always mocked and hated and recently crucified.
 

FGred

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I am intrigued by this. Where is your evidence of this “Anybody but Liverpool” media campaign? Smacks of paranoia to me.

Other clubs forums call us the "Media Darlings". Who is correct?

I think the media would love someone different to win it. BBC in particular are praising us to the heights.

I don't read the gutter press so can't comment on that but otherwise all I hear are plaudits and praise of Klopp. Granted some negative comments for running on the pitch but other than that.................

Klopp has always benefited from extremely positive press coverage. They seem to love him.... in total contrast to Mourinho who they have always mocked and hated and recently crucified.
You are preaching to the converted here but I have read several articles which I cannot put on this forum as they are banned sources and you are right I am paranoid as I am desperate for us to win the league
 

Billy Biskix

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I am intrigued by this. Where is your evidence of this “Anybody but Liverpool” media campaign? Smacks of paranoia to me.

Other clubs forums call us the "Media Darlings". Who is correct?

I think the media would love someone different to win it. BBC in particular are praising us to the heights.

I don't read the gutter press so can't comment on that but otherwise all I hear are plaudits and praise of Klopp. Granted some negative comments for running on the pitch but other than that.................

Klopp has always benefited from extremely positive press coverage. They seem to love him.... in total contrast to Mourinho who they have always mocked and hated and recently crucified.
I agree with everything here apart from the Mourinho bit. The British sporting press is xenophobic but seems to me he is treated as an honorary Brit. For them he is box office with his daft comments and general arrogance. Mr Rent-A-Quote and it's easy to manufacture headlines around him. He is a big loss to them.

I don't hear or see many negative comments about JK or this Liverpool team but then I don't read tabloids or listen to TalkSport. What I do know is there was a danger at the start of this season that the PL brand was being harmed by City's total dominance. Last season was boring and it seemed this season would pan out the same way. It's great for the PL, the TV companies, just about anyone who relies on football being competitive and exciting to see an actual title challenge being played out. We have a huge global following and have obviously attracted a new wave of fans on the back of Klopp and the CL run last season. Loads of money to be made if LFC win the title and not just for the club.
 

LFCFFC

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Never really understood this element of English football tribalism. Sure, give us shit about Stevie's slip, not winning the premier league etc etc, but mocking poverty? At best it's desperate, at worst it's sub-human and is especially puzzling given economic hardship generally doesn't discriminate.

Still, as other posters have said, it's all about provoking a reaction and while articles like Hughes' are very eloquent and well-intentioned, they won't stop those that feel inclined to begin said chants when their team is getting whacked at Anfield. The best we can do is drown them out with Allez Allez Allez.
 

AussieLad

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You are preaching to the converted here but I have read several articles which I cannot put on this forum as they are banned sources and you are right I am paranoid as I am desperate for us to win the league
And there in lies your answer ;-)

Read the proper media sources ie bbc, the guardian ect and they are far more positive about us, but they will call us out on things if we are out of order (like Klopp running on the pitch at the Everton game) but in the whole they are more positive and complimentry about us than they are negative. But if you read the dregs of the gutter trash tabloids, then yes, they will always paint a negative spin on anything we do as they are still buthurt over the campaign to ban their shitstained paper after their lies about the club and the city in '89
 

jaffod

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I am intrigued by this. Where is your evidence of this “Anybody but Liverpool” media campaign? Smacks of paranoia to me.

Other clubs forums call us the "Media Darlings". Who is correct?

I think the media would love someone different to win it. BBC in particular are praising us to the heights.

I don't read the gutter press so can't comment on that but otherwise all I hear are plaudits and praise of Klopp. Granted some negative comments for running on the pitch but other than that.................

Klopp has always benefited from extremely positive press coverage. They seem to love him.... in total contrast to Mourinho who they have always mocked and hated and recently crucified.
See you're still residing in cloud cuckoo land. You must really like it there.
 

sms1986

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You are preaching to the converted here but I have read several articles which I cannot put on this forum as they are banned sources and you are right I am paranoid as I am desperate for us to win the league
To be fair, those banned sources are banned for a reason - reading them is like looking into a sewer, you're just going to find a lot of shit.

Rambler's right, I think most of the people whining about us are the rival fans who hate Liverpool anyway, I'm more than happy for them to see us succeed!
 

Mascot88

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The thread is completely off topic at this point, so I’m closing it overnight, will tidy it up, and then re-open.

In the meantime, if anyone would like to open a new thread in the away section to discuss racism, please feel free. And make sure you let me know as I’d love a new year banning spree.
 
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James H

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I get that these chants are not nice but I don't really see the problem. So opposition fans came and sang mean things with the intention of offending us. What are we achieving by obliging them? I can tell you any homeless crises will not improve because Newcastle fans didn't sing about it.
 

Mascot88

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I get that these chants are not nice but I don't really see the problem. So opposition fans came and sang mean things with the intention of offending us. What are we achieving by obliging them? I can tell you any homeless crises will not improve because Newcastle fans didn't sing about it.
In the same way it makes zero sense racially abusing players with black lads on your own team, it makes no sense places like Newcastle and Wolverhampton mocking Liverpool for its poverty. I think what we are witnessing is the nature of crowds and people getting swept along in tribalism.

I’ve previously recounted the tale of being in the Liverpool end at Craven Cottage and hearing our fans mocking the then Fulham chairman’s dead son.

All it takes is one dickhead. And then through a mixture of tribalism, the permissive nature of crowds and desire to belong more and more people - people who would never dream of singing/saying such abhorrent things - join in.

Personally I’ve never understood the frothing tribalism that football awakens. It’s like some fans would prefer it if other clubs didn’t exist, and they had to watch their team having a kick about with their own ressies every week.
 

bazza66

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I get that these chants are not nice but I don't really see the problem. So opposition fans came and sang mean things with the intention of offending us. What are we achieving by obliging them? I can tell you any homeless crises will not improve because Newcastle fans didn't sing about it.
It won't help. But it WILL create a worse atmosphere that demonises people who are homeless , or in need of food banks. There was a shit newspaper that created a horrible climate for Merseyside, with one headline. You don't think 'feed the scousers etc' doesn't add to that?

Edited in case I misunderstood your post due to post win celebrations and Xmas cheese consumption.
 

MontySmoothnose

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Actually, yes, it is very problematic. Restricting speech by law is a slippery slope.
Who decides what is racist, or let's say misogynistic or sexist, or any other "ism"?

There is a major problem with society just now, in that the radical left shout down anyone who disagrees with their agenda. That means they shout down the extreme right (obviously), the conservative right (obviously), the centre, the moderate left...

This is why we cannot have discussions of important topics without being called racist, sexist, etc.
Difficult subjects need to be discussed. Banning speech does not help that.

But back on topic. I think the "Sign on" and "feed the scousers" songs are simply pathetic. The absolute best way to counter them is to ignore them. Who gives a shit anyway? Ok, I am not personally a scouser, I grew up not far from Haydock racecourse, but I've had worse insults given to me personally. I just shrug and roll my eyes.
They are misguided, sure; they are ironically cruel, sure, but are they crossing a line? I don't think so.
When I grew up my parents told me "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me". Seems today's PC society seems to think they can. Everybody seems to be "offended" by anything.
We have a right to freedom of expression. It's eroded enough already without more legislation.
We rightly have no right to "not be offended". Long may that be the case.
 



James H

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It won't help. But it WILL create a worse atmosphere that demonises people who are homeless , or in need of food banks. There was a shit newspaper that created a horrible climate for Merseyside, with one headline. You don't think 'feed the scousers etc' doesn't add to that?

Edited in case I misunderstood your post due to post win celebrations and Xmas cheese consumption.
Demonise to whom? The only people who will/would believe it are those who would/will anyway. I will change my wording, Newcastle or other fans chanting this has 0 bearing on anyone with sense. The only effect happening here is us encouraging them to continue by being hurt by it.
 

ptt

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I don’t know if this helps but the sign on song was sung by kids in my playground in 1984. Very long standing stereotypes, some people just can’t improve themselves I guess and teach their children to hate and hold spiteful opinions vicariously.
 

redaderry

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I agree completely with a lot of the sentiment here about sticks and stones etc and how the best way to deal with this stuff is to ignore it. However, the difference in this case is that these chants are a continuation of a wider anti Liverpool agenda which has been perpetuated by the scummiest of tory and murdock elements over many years and IMO should be called out at every opportunity.