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The Goalkeeper conundrum

Who would you WANT LFC to sign ?

  • Danjiel Subasic (Monaco)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rui Patricio (S.Lisbon)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Diego Alves ( Valencia)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    119

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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Isn't he essentially a glorified scout? It doesn't appear that much different.
That’s Damien Comolli. Need to get the right term to associate to the right guy.

Might need to be careful with labelling him. Some people here may take offence being his pal and all...
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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He is consulting about recruitment, not training.
So his only action to date was to recommend karius

Hope the fees are reasonable
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I am sure the consultant will be able to sort that out, no? Since Mr. Edwards needs all the help he could get because we are so understaffed in that department.... apparently.
You think a club our size should limit ourselves when it comes to staff? If this guy is better at identifying keepers than Edwards I don't see the problem? You don't think Edwards does or should do it all do you? What if we are assessing him and his work with an eye on him replacing Achterburg? Wouldn't that be a good thing? Can see by your comments you seem unhappy with this guy just trying to understand why.
 

lfc.eddie

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You think a club our size should limit ourselves when it comes to staff? If this guy is better at identifying keepers than Edwards I don't see the problem? You don't think Edwards does or should do it all do you? What if we are assessing him and his work with an eye on him replacing Achterburg? Wouldn't that be a good thing? Can see by your comments you seem unhappy with this guy just trying to understand why.
Tackle your question 1 - limit ourselves in what sense? You don't think we have a large number of people working under Edwards? 3 man operation you think? So why do you think I say Edwards should do everything? Do you believe that Mark Zuckerberg does everything in Facebook? But when shit hits the fan, do you see anyone else in the organisation takes the shit or the facebook CEO himself? So let's not put words in my mouth as you tend to like to usually do.....

If this is the guy that is needed to come in just to assess Achterburg, you don't think there is a problem in the group of merry men under Edwards? How many years has Achterberg been in the club and when did we hire this fella? Why not finding solutions earlier? Or this is Klopp's initiative, you think? If it is, then isn't there a problem again having a Director of Football needing the manager to tell him how to do his job? Again, then what's the point of having a director when you have manager dictating the show. I surely expect my director to dictate the direction of the department while the manager execute, not the other way around. If it is, then the director's title is for show, nothing more.

Lastly - how is it that my comment shows I ma unhappy with the guy, when the question is directed to Edwards and even you have sets of questions that are based on the club structure and Edwards directed to me. But some how you assume I am not happy with someone I don't even know exists till yesterday? Again.... putting words in my post.

I still standby my point that Achterberg is crap and have been saying it for the longest time.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Tackle your question 1 - limit ourselves in what sense? You don't think we have a large number of people working under Edwards? 3 man operation you think? So why do you think I say Edwards should do everything? Do you believe that Mark Zuckerberg does everything in Facebook? But when shit hits the fan, do you see anyone else in the organisation takes the shit or the facebook CEO himself? So let's not put words in my mouth as you tend to like to usually do.....

If this is the guy that is needed to come in just to assess Achterburg, you don't think there is a problem in the group of merry men under Edwards? How many years has Achterberg been in the club and when did we hire this fella? Why not finding solutions earlier? Or this is Klopp's initiative, you think? If it is, then isn't there a problem again having a Director of Football needing the manager to tell him how to do his job? Again, then what's the point of having a director when you have manager dictating the show. I surely expect my director to dictate the direction of the department while the manager execute, not the other way around. If it is, then the director's title is for show, nothing more.

Lastly - how is it that my comment shows I ma unhappy with the guy, when the question is directed to Edwards and even you have sets of questions that are based on the club structure and Edwards directed to me. But some how you assume I am not happy with someone I don't even know exists till yesterday? Again.... putting words in my post.

I still standby my point that Achterberg is crap and have been saying it for the longest time.
You sound rather unhappy over the whole thing from your posts. Even in this one you literally say;

"How many years has Achterberg been in the club and when did we hire this fella? Why not finding solutions earlier?"

To me that comes across as an angry point over something I hinted at as a possibility (I was actually trying to say, maybe they are appraising this guy and once they know they can trust him he may replace Achterburg in some or all of his responsibilities, and it was wild speculation by me).

You seem so angry over this whole keeper situation that any moves at all, positive or not, get rants from you about why we need to hire more people and why things haven't been done earlier. I'm leaving it there.
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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You sound rather unhappy over the whole thing from your posts. Even in this one you literally say;

"How many years has Achterberg been in the club and when did we hire this fella? Why not finding solutions earlier?"

To me that comes across as an angry point over something I hinted at as a possibility (I was actually trying to say, maybe they are appraising this guy and once they know they can trust him he may replace Achterburg in some or all of his responsibilities, and it was wild speculation by me).

You seem so angry over this whole keeper situation that any moves at all, positive or not, get rants from you about why we need to hire more people and why things haven't been done earlier. I'm leaving it there.
You can’t hire one coach and keep the other one on can you?

Just compromises the whole situation.....

See houllier and evans
 

Kopstar

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You can’t hire one coach and keep the other one on can you?

Just compromises the whole situation.....

See houllier and evans
At the same time you can't ask Achterberg to evaluate himself. I don't see why you wouldn't seek feedback/alternative ideas from other experts. Sure, you don't want to confuse 'keepers with contrary opinions but from a coaching perspective isn't it useful to have the benefit of expert advice? Particularly someone who has operated in many different environments and had the opportunity to pick up tips and strategies from a variety of different places? If you think that your goalkeeping situation is not what it should be, why would you not do anything about that?

It might question Achterberg's ability to think outside of the coaching manual, granted, but given how poor our goalkeeping department has been I find it difficult to criticise the club for trying to do something about it.
 

lfc.eddie

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You sound rather unhappy over the whole thing from your posts. Even in this one you literally say;

"How many years has Achterberg been in the club and when did we hire this fella? Why not finding solutions earlier?"

To me that comes across as an angry point over something I hinted at as a possibility (I was actually trying to say, maybe they are appraising this guy and once they know they can trust him he may replace Achterburg in some or all of his responsibilities, and it was wild speculation by me).

You seem so angry over this whole keeper situation that any moves at all, positive or not, get rants from you about why we need to hire more people and why things haven't been done earlier. I'm leaving it there.
I am not angry, baffled maybe.... at club as you well put it a size of Liverpool FC, after 8 years under new ownership with new people in the helm has yet to find a proper keeper coach with evidence staring on our face that Achterberg not working out. From Reina to Karius, and whoever else in between. Not like everyone left us turned out to be shit house and retire. I think Gulacsi, Brad Jones and Reina were all doing pretty well life after us, but shit under our stewardship. Then bought supposedly highly rater keeper in the form of Mignolet and then Karius, they turned out to be shit and we still wants to buy better keeper. If that isn't a pattern, a sign, then I really don't know what is, and don't think you need external consultant to tell you that.

And if he's hired to find good goalkeepers for us, then why waited this long if we know that we are not equip to find players in that department? Why wait till after third manager under the new owners for the people they appointed to realise, we need proper help in that area? To me it shows ineffective, inefficient and have a bunch of to put it bluntly, journeymen in suits, coasting through their job.

Now that's my problem. Not with the consultant, but the people running the ops. I am baffled the ineptitude in our group of suits in our boardroom to see these problems and they are paid to do so.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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You can’t hire one coach and keep the other one on can you?

Just compromises the whole situation.....

See houllier and evans
Think manager is different than other levels. We have loads of coaches at the club. More than one keeper coach already but Achterburg is first team (and therefore head) keeper coach. If (and it's a huge if as I was only guessing possible motivations) this guy is getting eyed in a coaching role it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that Klopp would want to work with him a bit and see his thoughts and appraisals on keepers and such.

But besides my fantasy speculation you've had posters on here point out that, with his less than gleaming reputation, Achterburg being in charge of both keeper recruitment and development seems like a bad thing. If this guy takes over the recruitment side it can still be a positive.

I was just really confused as @lfc.eddie doesn't like our keeper coach, has seemed unhappy at our keeper recruitment, has shown displeasure at the club not spending money and now seems (from the tone of his posts) unhappy we are hiring an additional "expert", and wondering in his posts why we are wasting money. Just seemed odd.

Few choice parts of his rants;

"our recruitment team needs someone to consult them on who to recruit for goalkeeping duties, I think we are either drastically understaff, lack of resources to collate data or just inept..."

Why is hiring an expert considered a sign of weakness? The very best, most knowledgeable managers will still hire experts to help them.

"But yeah, need a specialist to consult these blokes in suits."

Thank God we hire specialists. We don't want 'guys in suits' making all our football decisions do we?

"I am sure the consultant will be able to sort that out, no? Since Mr. Edwards needs all the help he could get because we are so understaffed in that department.... apparently."

Yet again seemingly angry at us using money to hire additional personnel. Strange thing to be angry about when anyone with a rudimentary grasp of the game can say we have done something wrong here. Why wouldn't we hire an expert?
 

lfc.eddie

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I was just really confused as @lfc.eddie doesn't like our keeper coach, has seemed unhappy at our keeper recruitment, has shown displeasure at the club not spending money and now seems (from the tone of his posts) unhappy we are hiring an additional "expert", and wondering in his posts why we are wasting money. Just seemed odd.

Few choice parts of his rants;

"our recruitment team needs someone to consult them on who to recruit for goalkeeping duties, I think we are either drastically understaff, lack of resources to collate data or just inept..."

Why is hiring an expert considered a sign of weakness? The very best, most knowledgeable managers will still hire experts to help them.

"But yeah, need a specialist to consult these blokes in suits."

Thank God we hire specialists. We don't want 'guys in suits' making all our football decisions do we?

"I am sure the consultant will be able to sort that out, no? Since Mr. Edwards needs all the help he could get because we are so understaffed in that department.... apparently."

Yet again seemingly angry at us using money to hire additional personnel. Strange thing to be angry about when anyone with a rudimentary grasp of the game can say we have done something wrong here. Why wouldn't we hire an expert?
That first quote itself tells you I am not unhappy with the consultant, unhappy with the ineptitude of our people to a point after so long, we need to hire a specialist to help them. Damn boy.... so easy to decipher. Taking shots at our director of football. Someone I don't rate as highly as others have.....
 

Kopstar

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Edwards was made Technical Director in 2015 and then Sporting Director towards the end of 2016 and, it seems, as soon as he was this guy was brought in. Until very late in Rodgers' tenure Rodgers dictated his own coaching team for the first XI so, again, I don't understand the criticism of 'the suits'.
 

Iluvatar

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Edwards was made Technical Director in 2015 and then Sporting Director towards the end of 2016 and, it seems, as soon as he was this guy was brought in. Until very late in Rodgers' tenure Rodgers dictated his own coaching team for the first XI so, again, I don't understand the criticism of 'the suits'.
Edwards is doing a great job for me, his hit rate with transfers since Klopp came in is very very high, considering the medium is around 50%.
 

Flobs

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I have never met a group of people who can moan so intensely about something they cannot know anything about.

"Who is this man, and what is he doing here?"
"I do not know, but I know it's not good enough."
You should get out more Limie. One reason I avoid going out is people going on about stuff they know nothing about and making things up because well just because. Now with twitter it can all go viral in seconds. :shocked:

Then again isn't that they have a lack of information that they go on about it? A very human reaction imo.
Also in observing such things one also should beware of hypocrisy. Just let them have their say until one of them tires of it all. ^^
 

Limiescouse

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lol some of us prefer to moan about people moaning!
Mine is more of a "shut the fuck you bunch of whingeing gits" than the low constant moan, and ability to blame Achtenburg (who most people wouldnt recognize if they met him on the street) for everything from the stock market fall to Brexit.
 

Elessar

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Achterberg have his strenghts and weaknesses. I doubt that he can improve our keepers much on the things he is weak at. He simply don't have the knowledge to do it. He can't be great at everything.

I have said a few times that we need more than one goalkeeper coach so we can give our keepers more complete training. Goalkeeper coaches that have different strenghts and weaknesses.

How can for example Achterberg improve a keeper to be dominant in the box if he himself have that as one of his weaknesses?
 

Elessar

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I think that we in a decade or so will see football clubs doing what NFL clubs do. Having a lot of different specialist coaches and a head coach(manager).

Maybe up to ten different coaches to cover more or less everything. That is only for the first team.

For example two defensive coaches. One that have attacking as his strenght and the other defensive. The same in midfield and attack. If you count in the two goalkeeper coaches then we have eight coaches plus the head coach(manager) and the assistant manager.
 

Scott Jones

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I think that we in a decade or so will see football clubs doing what NFL clubs do. Having a lot of different specialist coaches and a head coach(manager).

Maybe up to ten different coaches to cover more or less everything. That is only for the first team.

For example two defensive coaches. One that have attacking as his strenght and the other defensive. The same in midfield and attack. If you count in the two goalkeeper coaches then we have eight coaches plus the head coach(manager) and the assistant manager.
Ten coaches just for the first team sounds ridiculous,you think two coaches would make Simon any better than he is,better players is what we need.
 

SithBaare

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I'll be the optimist and say this is the club realizing that they need better goalkeeping coaches and scouts. Achterberg must be doing something right behind the scenes for him to stay on the job.
 



blanket

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why can't they just give danny ward an extended run in the team in the smaller fixtures?
example.......... the (almost) dead rubber against porto?

the boy got promoted up from the championship and played a part in it, he has been a steady pair of hands when he played (admittedly very little at liverpool but much more at huddlesfield), so he can't be that bad, right?
 

Flobs

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why can't they just give danny ward an extended run in the team in the smaller fixtures?
example.......... the (almost) dead rubber against porto?

the boy got promoted up from the championship and played a part in it, he has been a steady pair of hands when he played (admittedly very little at liverpool but much more at huddlesfield), so he can't be that bad, right?
Because our coaching team rate him below Karius and Mignolet. We are in no position to disagree and just have to accept the situation as it stands.
Personaly I think Mignolet would be nuts not to move this summer. That would leave Karius, Ward and Bogdan so Ward should start to get opportunities next season. Don't forget our poor cup form is partially responsible for the lack of games for Ward.
 

Scott Jones

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Because our coaching team rate him below Karius and Mignolet. We are in no position to disagree and just have to accept the situation as it stands.
Personaly I think Mignolet would be nuts not to move this summer. That would leave Karius, Ward and Bogdan so Ward should start to get opportunities next season. Don't forget our poor cup form is partially responsible for the lack of games for Ward.
Definitely replacing Simon mate so can't see chances for Ward or Bogdan.
 

William Clarke

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I have to admit that Karius has surprised me a little. He is definitely playing better, so maybe it was a confidence thing with him. Will he do enough by the season's end to hold onto the keeper's jersey or will the club go for what they consider to be an upgrade?
 

lfc.eddie

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I have to admit that Karius has surprised me a little. He is definitely playing better, so maybe it was a confidence thing with him. Will he do enough by the season's end to hold onto the keeper's jersey or will the club go for what they consider to be an upgrade?
No surprise that he has a defender in front of him that plays with more authority that boosts his confidence. I still think if he stretched for it, he could have stopped Antonio's goal. He is alright, I don't think he's the answer just yet.