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The midfield - What's the answer?

kwala

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They go hand in hand. The lack of nous, mobility, and spine in the middle of the park leaves that back line far more exposed than they should be.
I agree to a certain extent, but I think it is a formation issue rather than a personnel issue in midfield that exposes our back line, although we are definitely lacking a midfield destroyer. Henderson doesn't have the game reading, positioning or selflessness to play the role effectively, but is Klopp likely to ditch the Captain from the side?

The CB's are appalling in general. Matip looks good on the ball, but I am seriously unconvinced by his defending in general. He is no leader at the back either. Lovren and Klaven need sold, ASAP. Sakho was by far our best DEFENDER, but got binned for being a clown off the pitch. We are left with clowns on the pitch in his place.

Mignolet is a good shot stopper, everything else he is shite at. Kicking, shite. Physicality, shite. Commanding his defence, shite. Dominating his box, shite. Karius looks like he is cut out of the same cloth as Mignolet, but he is young still for a keeper, so i'll holdfire on a final judgement. Fullbacks are seriously unconvincing bar Trent who looks a real prosect, and Robertson, who still has it all to prove.
 


Mascot88

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If he considred they are not good enough , why not benching them ? , the problem is , he rates them , that's why he keep playing them every week .
Not to be rude, but I trust his judgement a lot more than yours.
 

Abdel

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Not to be rude, but I trust his judgement a lot more than yours.
Im just saying his judgment is not only based on football ability , like you , he is sentimental , not a mourinho like ,who d'ont give a shit about how a good lad is this player or this , the rooney /hendo parallel is a good indication of how the two manager handle those things .
 

lfc.eddie

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Im just saying his judgment is not only based on football ability , like you , he is sentimental , not a mourinho like ,who d'ont give a shit about how a good lad is this player or this , the rooney /hendo parallel is a good indication of how the two manager handle those things .
Not really. They had Ibrahimovic and now Lukaku, coupled with Martial and now Pogba to replace that shrek. We only have Can. So how is there a parallel in this situation? You don't think Keita is part of the idea of replacing Henderson if need be?
 

Abdel

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Not really. They had Ibrahimovic and now Lukaku, coupled with Martial and now Pogba to replace that shrek. We only have Can. So how is there a parallel in this situation? You don't think Keita is part of the idea of replacing Henderson if need be?
We have Can and Wijnaldum to replace him now , for the armband , we have Lallana ,Mané , Bobby , Cou and Matip , but as i said , JK don't want to upset , because he is a good lad .
 



lfc.eddie

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We have Can and Wijnaldum to replace him now , for the armband , we have Lallana ,Mané , Bobby , Cou and Matip , but as i said , JK don't want to upset , because he is a good lad .
You do realise Wijnaldum isn't exactly the best in defensive midfield role yes? His form isn't exactly good either right now. As for captaincy, we are Liverpool FC, we don't pass the armband around like some village bicycle, not like United. I am baffled to see someone suggesting to simply give captaincy to anyone in the team, then complain about leadership later.
 

RedForever2014

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The fact that there are no obvious captaincy alternatives to Henderson, pretty much says it all.

As does the fact that very few players in midfield or defence are guaranteed their place.

When the captaincy was taken off Hyppia and given to Gerrard, there were 4 or 5 legitimate options.
 

Abdel

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You do realise Wijnaldum isn't exactly the best in defensive midfield role yes? His form isn't exactly good either right now. As for captaincy, we are Liverpool FC, we don't pass the armband around like some village bicycle, not like United. I am baffled to see someone suggesting to simply give captaincy to anyone in the team, then complain about leadership later.
How do you know that ? He haven't been deployed as a DM yet
For captaincy , United have been sucesseful and healthy since they stripped the armband from rooney , we d'ont care if we become a sucessesful a village bicycle , don't we ? Who cares ?
Let me clarify something , i d'ont give a shit about captaincy at the moment it doesn't mean being an automatic starter .
 

Abdel

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The fact that there are no obvious captaincy alternatives to Henderson, pretty much says it all.

As does the fact that very few players in midfield or defence are guaranteed their place.

When the captaincy was taken off Hyppia and given to Gerrard, there were 4 or 5 legitimate options.
So you think Hendo have more leadership in him than Mané or Cou ?
 



Abdel

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Yes but not by much,better players doesn't equate to better leadership.
Tell me more about Henderson leadership , specially on the pitch , and what he brings more in that departement than Mané , Cou , Bobby for exp
 

lfc.eddie

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How do you know that ? He haven't been deployed as a DM yet
For captaincy , United have been sucesseful and healthy since they stripped the armband from rooney , we d'ont care if we become a sucessesful a village bicycle , don't we ? Who cares ?
Let me clarify something , i d'ont give a shit about captaincy at the moment it doesn't mean being an automatic starter .
Don't use the word "we" in your post that loosely.... I don't think making Fellaini and whoever willing to take the armband shows respect to the club and the club history. But hey, who cares right? Being a Liverpool FC captain is something special, by simply giving it to anyone would dilute the importance of the armband and the club culture. Maybe you might wanna rethink why you are so into the club if you can't see that part of your quote wrong.

As for defensive midfielder, have you ever seen Wijnaldum play in that position? If he hasn't been deployed there, you complained we don't have a strong defensive midfielder, yet you are willing to take a punt on someone who has never played there for us yet? How does that work?
 



Abdel

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Don't use the word "we" in your post that loosely.... I don't think making Fellaini and whoever willing to take the armband shows respect to the club and the club history. But hey, who cares right? Being a Liverpool FC captain is something special, by simply giving it to anyone would dilute the importance of the armband and the club culture. Maybe you might wanna rethink why you are so into the club if you can't see that part of your quote wrong.

As for defensive midfielder, have you ever seen Wijnaldum play in that position? If he hasn't been deployed there, you complained we don't have a strong defensive midfielder, yet you are willing to take a punt on someone who has never played there for us yet? How does that work?
so you recognise that an average player should never be a captain . i agree .
For wijnaldum , yes , i've seen him play as a DM for Holland and in friendly games for LFC , he showed some potential , been pretty solid defensively and more importantly he is not afraid to receive the ball ( not like the one you are defending )
 

Abdel

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@Abdel a less confrontation tone wouldn't go amiss. If you'd been here longer you'd have seen Eddie criticise Henderson plenty of times, so please don't accuse him of 'defending' anyone. He's just picking holes in your argument.
Im cool , there is nothing personal in my comment , but i just feel this a bit contemptuous
Mascot88 said:
Not to be rude, but I trust his judgement a lot more than yours.
 

Artrain

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I agree to a certain extent, but I think it is a formation issue rather than a personnel issue in midfield that exposes our back line, although we are definitely lacking a midfield destroyer. Henderson doesn't have the game reading, positioning or selflessness to play the role effectively, but is Klopp likely to ditch the Captain from the side?
Its a bit of one and the same thing. A 4-3-3 needs a midfielder who is good defensively. We don't have such a player, hence the personnel issue.

We could change the formation to get around that, but how likely is that seeing as 4-3-3 is what Klopp seems to have aimed at from the very beginning?

The CB's are appalling in general. Matip looks good on the ball, but I am seriously unconvinced by his defending in general. He is no leader at the back either. Lovren and Klaven need sold, ASAP. Sakho was by far our best DEFENDER, but got binned for being a clown off the pitch. We are left with clowns on the pitch in his place.

Mignolet is a good shot stopper, everything else he is shite at. Kicking, shite. Physicality, shite. Commanding his defence, shite. Dominating his box, shite. Karius looks like he is cut out of the same cloth as Mignolet, but he is young still for a keeper, so i'll holdfire on a final judgement. Fullbacks are seriously unconvincing bar Trent who looks a real prosect, and Robertson, who still has it all to prove.
Defense or defenders rather, is something I agree with on Klopp. I think they are way too exposed. Even if we bring VVD in, and keep everything else the same, I have a feeling that people on here will soon be going, "this guy is the best defender in the world?" Football as a game is meant to put defenders at a disadvantage, because in the end people want to see goals.

Bringing in quality defenders will certainly reduce the number of mistakes we make, but it wont suddenly make us much more solid.

On the other hand I think the Arsenal game is a good example of how much a solid midfield can help us. A team of that stature not getting a single shot on target. In that game, all three of Can, Hendo and Wini had turned up in what looked like top form. Question is, why can't they do it more often? And whether they need replacing? I personally think at least one of them does. We need at least one out of those three to have very high work ethic, with decent defensive nous. That midfield sometimes looks too stale and too un-energetic. Hendo does not have the energy he used to, Can's form is mystifyingly erratic and Wini has a tendency to disappear from games.
 

charleslee89

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Put in a midfield destroyer just like what Rafa did in the past with Masherano. The front 4 would work their magic and our defence would be more reliable.
 



lfc.eddie

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Put in a midfield destroyer just like what Rafa did in the past with Masherano. The front 4 would work their magic and our defence would be more reliable.
But he's not Rafa and he hasn't used a destroyer for quite awhile now and we don't have one today. So moot point to discuss having a Mascherano unless the manager actually go out and hunt for one.

In all honesty I would prefer a Hamann than a Mascherano. Good on the ball, great passer, strong, good tackler, have a pretty lethal right foot, commanding figure in terms of size and height and freaking intelligent in terms of game reading.
 
K

Klopptinho

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You wouldn't recognise anything good about Henderson so what's the fucking point.
his hair.. ffs .. anyone can see his hair ! lol even if a person persists on calling him shite.. they can't deny he's looked after his hair and skin..skin..yes. :yawn: people love to look for faults .. because they are usually far easier to see and people get such joy out of running other people down . Henderson plays for Liverpool .. he's got the ability . i haven't played for Liverpool and don't have the ability .. let's call him shite .. what the fuck does that make the person calling him shite ? :think:
 

steveee

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the immediate answer coming soon is Lallana... which is our best and most consistent midfield player under Klopp... when he is back he will bump one of Can, Gini, or Hendo from the regular spot in midfield imo making them all play better to try to keep their place...

just having him back will fix more than people think

but long term... Keita is the answer and will do wonders for our midfield...
 

Semmy

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Assuming Klopp keeps the 433...

This year

6 - Hendo / Can
8 - Wij / Milner
10 - Coutinho / Lallana

Grujic still to come into the fold, but really we don't have a true #6, we have 3 8's and 3 10's

Lose Phil and Emre next summer. Keita comes in, and we buy a proper DM (we'll call him Llorente in the meantime):

6 - Keita / Llorente
8 - Hendo / Wij
10 - Lallana / Firmino / Grujic

Leaves Milner as odd man out
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Assuming Klopp keeps the 433...

This year

6 - Hendo / Can
8 - Wij / Milner
10 - Coutinho / Lallana

Grujic still to come into the fold, but really we don't have a true #6, we have 3 8's and 3 10's

Lose Phil and Emre next summer. Keita comes in, and we buy a proper DM (we'll call him Llorente in the meantime):

6 - Keita / Llorente
8 - Hendo / Wij
10 - Lallana / Firmino / Grujic

Leaves Milner as odd man out
Think it's more;

Holding mid, usually one for most games but sometimes 2; Henderson for control or DM for when we are expected to be under pressure.
Box to box mid again usually one but sometimes two; Keita backed up/competition offered by Wijnaldum and Grujic. (Maybe even Ox?)
Central attacking mid, usually only 1; Lallana being slowly phased out and replaced by Ox and also Woodburn being developed.

I think mostly it'd be a three man midfield with a 1-2 shape but think if he had the right players Klopp would be flexible enough to field a flat 3 midfield, a 2-1 midfield or even a four man diamond midfield depending on the circumstances.

This year, as he doesn't quite have the right bits and options, I think he's just picking the 3 most ready and best performing central mids he has available and just hoping to get through this period.
 

Noo Noo

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The only answer in my mind is new midfielders. We've had this problem of not being able to break deep lying teams down for too long. Similarly leaking goals has been a long standing problem.

We need a better balance (and ability) in midfield. A proper controlling influence, some creativity and a work horse. We have some of it but the controlling side is definitely missing.
 

Ahmed Hussain

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I know it's no point thinking what could've been, but imagine Lamar as a number 10, with Coutinho and Keita as the central midfielders. Can, Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum as first choice alternatives. :shocked:
 

Abdel

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I know it's no point thinking what could've been, but imagine Lamar as a number 10, with Coutinho and Keita as the central midfielders. Can, Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum as first choice alternatives. :shocked:
Keep imaginig , it's a klopp thing to trust average /inconsistant footballers , you can give 1 billions to buy quality , he will still stik with the like of Lovren , Can , Wijnaldum or Hendo , the gap with the CL teams is staggering , take PSG midfield for exemple , they have no destroyer here , intelligence , mobility and control prevent them from every danger .
 

Scott Jones

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Keep imaginig , it's a klopp thing to trust average /inconsistant footballers , you can give 1 billions to buy quality , he will still stik with the like of Lovren , Can , Wijnaldum or Hendo , the gap with the CL teams is staggering , take PSG midfield for exemple , they have no destroyer here , intelligence , mobility and control prevent them from every danger .
Keita is coming though hey,we are not capable of spending like PSG so why the stupid fucking comparison.