The Owners

Arminius

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Clubs that spend the most money win the most trophies over the medium term.

We can compete despite this under Klopp, but we would be more equipped to win things if the squad was stronger.

You can't coach the likes of Moreno to be any better. You can't change the fact that three centre backs are injury prone until you swap them out. There is no young player ready to play during a title challenge and CL campaign.

You don't have to pay big bucks for every signing, but you need to sign players constantly and consistently.

If Klopp doesn't want this he's limiting his own chances of success. The club should be capable of spending more and Klopp should want to.
To be fair, Klopp's approach has adjusted from his time in Dortmund along some dimensions, just not in others. He still seems to like a mid-size squad - I would not say small, because he clearly wants some consistent level of rotation, but also wishes to avoid the heavy bench problem. He definitely does not like January signings, the complete lack of media churn around LFC once again this year would seem to establish that.

On the other hand, VvD is not a Dortmund-Klopp transfer. He seems delighted with good scouting and smart transfers like Robertson, but now seems willing to go to the absolute top of the market to address well-defined needs. Allisson to replace Karius is in some ways an even clearer example of a shift in his way of thinking.

I would like, all things being equal, to see a player come in to shore up the squad in this window, if only for insurance. But Klopp clearly doesn't want to change the dynamic in the team right now, which is hard to argue against. As long as he continues this new pattern of prioritizing the highest need every summer, and the club goes out and fills it with just about the best available, I will be satisfied.
 

Lowton_Red

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1) The accounts are always misleading.
In the strictest sense, no they are not.

A company's accounts should never be misleading. To publish misleading accounts is false accounting, and false accounting is a criminal offence.

It is a requirement of The Financial Reporting Council that:
"The financial statements shall give a true and fair view of the assets, liabilities, financial position, financial performance and, when required to be presented, cash flows of an entity."

Having said that, it is easy to misinterpret or misconstrue what a company's accounts are conveying, especially so if you are unaware of the appropriate accountancy rules i.e. the conventions and legal obligations that govern how a company is required / permitted to present its results.
 

lfc.eddie

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It's more likely his stance hasn't changed though.
In some ways it has deviated a little bit, like @Arminius said. You would not see him splashing record some for Van Dijk and Alisson back then, and that's the way he likes to operate. He is getting used to life in the big leagues with big money just recently. While he has not changed with the way he go about only want specific type of player, he isn't shy of spending anymore these days.

@Lowton_Red, yes misleading is definitely a wrong word to use to describe the accounts published by the club.
 

Limiescouse

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I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win. It gives more players playing time, it gives the supporters a day out at Wembley and it gives the players experience of semis and finals that help them handle title run ins and CL latter stages.
City's last two EFL semis have been against Bristol City and Burton Albion. You are free to make a value judgement on how important you think winning these trophies are, but I dont think you can support the idea that City are now steeled for a run in or a crunch CL tie against Barca because of the high pressure stakes of semi finals against lower tiered sides.
 

sms1986

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City's last two EFL semis have been against Bristol City and Burton Albion. You are free to make a value judgement on how important you think winning these trophies are, but I dont think you can support the idea that City are now steeled for a run in or a crunch CL tie against Barca because of the high pressure stakes of semi finals against lower tiered sides.
An extra game is an extra game which also brings extra possibilities of players getting injured.
 

Mascot88

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In the strictest sense, no they are not.

A company's accounts should never be misleading. To publish misleading accounts is false accounting, and false accounting is a criminal offence.

It is a requirement of The Financial Reporting Council that:
"The financial statements shall give a true and fair view of the assets, liabilities, financial position, financial performance and, when required to be presented, cash flows of an entity."

Having said that, it is easy to misinterpret or misconstrue what a company's accounts are conveying, especially so if you are unaware of the appropriate accountancy rules i.e. the conventions and legal obligations that govern how a company is required / permitted to present its results.
Sure. Everyone knows what I mean though.

You can't prove he doesn't any more I can prove he does.

Mr Positive would never say otherwise.
We can look at virtually everything he has said and done in the past and at LFC, and conclude with some certainty that Klopp

1) prefers to work with a smaller group of players, and doesn’t like too many on the fringes not getting their game.

2) does not naturally want to go to the market and spend money because it’s there.

3) will always look to give youth a chance

4) is the manager FSG wanted to get in place from the very beginning, and as such it’s very unlikely they’d want to piss him off by not letting him spend the money he wants.

Furthermore, I don’t think you can find even a twitchy eyebrow to show that Klopp is not 100% happy with the way he has been backed in the market. He has gone out of his way to try to encourage fans and the media to put aside the idea that the solution to every problem is to throw money at it.

What you are asking, with your wish to see Klopp dropping more and more money into the squad, is for him to change his nature. It makes as much sense bringing in Mourinho and expecting him to develop the kids.
 

CymruRed

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Yes I do appreciate the time lag in coefficient.



I didn't say I expected us to win all four, I said I expect us to compete for them.

Competing means getting to the latter stages, not necessarily winning it. We are the only top six club that has gone out of the domestic cups in the early rounds every year since we started competing for top four again.

Every other top club manages to compete for top four, play in Europe and do better in domestic cups than we do.

We got to the League Cup final in Klopp's first season, when we finished well outside the top 4 (and top 6), but since then have gone out of the League Cup and FA Cup early each season.

We all know that to win a trophy - especially cups - you need things to go your way, but the longer you stay in each tournament the better chance you have (in fact the only chance you have).

I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win. It gives more players playing time, it gives the supporters a day out at Wembley and it gives the players experience of semis and finals that help them handle title run ins and CL latter stages.

That we don't get anywhere in domestic cups to me indicates that more work is necessary on the squad, both with the intent of competing on four fronts and especially as having a squad deep enough to compete on 4 fronts also means you stand a better chance in the main two trophies (PL and CL).

I can accept the situation this season, but if we have to go out of domestic cups early every year in order to compete for the title and CL, that to me is unacceptable.



Clubs that spend the most money win the most trophies over the medium term.

We can compete despite this under Klopp, but we would be more equipped to win things if the squad was stronger.

You can't coach the likes of Moreno to be any better. You can't change the fact that three centre backs are injury prone until you swap them out. There is no young player ready to play during a title challenge and CL campaign.

You don't have to pay big bucks for every signing, but you need to sign players constantly and consistently.

If Klopp doesn't want this he's limiting his own chances of success. The club should be capable of spending more and Klopp should want to.

What you need to factor into all this,is that the major teams we are competing against for all four competitions,have squads with quality in depth to play deep into all four comps.

Admittedly they've all had new managers at some point in the last 3-4 years since Klopps been here,the likes of Man City,Chelsea,Man United and Spurs have all added decent players to their squads,that were already good enough to compete for the title,whereas Klopps been working miricles to offload deadwood and build his squad from scratch,taking us 2 steps back in that timeframe (yet taking us 3 steps closer at the same time).

When the deadwood is gone and Klopp has his team in place,strong/deep enough to compete with the likes of Man City in the so called lesser cups,we'll stay in them longer and try winning them.ATM we are picking our fights in accordance to whats better for the club and size of our squad,and untill Klopps had enough time to get the players he needs,then i'm all for ducking out of the FA Cup/League Cup to help us win the title or CL.
 

Limiescouse

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Well said!

I think there are two schools of thought when it comes to player purchases (and therefore squad depth). On the one hand, there are those that baulk at the idea of 'buying the title' and feel that the sugar daddy clubs could even be damaging to football overall. On the other hand are those that want our owners to spend big on world class superstars for every position with superstar spares for every position too. Personally, I'm in the first group. I desperately want us to win the league at last and accept that means we need to focus our resources. What I don't want is for us to win the league at the expense of our soul. I don't want us to be another Man City or Chelsea.
One thing that often gets lost is during the 70s and 80s when were on top, we frequently flexed our financial muscles and outspent our rivals. We don't have many, if any, entries in the progression of the League transfer record during that period, but our approach to turning over the team was to identify "liverpool players", then bide our time and then when the time came put a wedge of cash on the table to bring them in. The fees may not look comparable, but the near half million quid we paid for Souness and Dalgish in 77 were both near record fees, and the approach was very similar to the way we went about bringing in Virgil and Alison in the last year. It is not buying the league, but it is using our substantial muscle strategically. Having the money to make the offers sizeable enough that the club cannot say no is important. But its the clever and well organized implementation of the approach that is key.
 

RedForever2014

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Sure. Everyone knows what I mean though.



We can look at virtually everything he has said and done in the past and at LFC, and conclude with some certainty that Klopp

1) prefers to work with a smaller group of players, and doesn’t like too many on the fringes not getting their game.

2) does not naturally want to go to the market and spend money because it’s there.

3) will always look to give youth a chance

4) is the manager FSG wanted to get in place from the very beginning, and as such it’s very unlikely they’d want to piss him off by not letting him spend the money he wants.

Furthermore, I don’t think you can find even a twitchy eyebrow to show that Klopp is not 100% happy with the way he has been backed in the market. He has gone out of his way to try to encourage fans and the media to put aside the idea that the solution to every problem is to throw money at it.

What you are asking, with your wish to see Klopp dropping more and more money into the squad, is for him to change his nature. It makes as much sense bringing in Mourinho and expecting him to develop the kids.
When he arrived Klopp called the loan system madness, and is now its biggest fan.

He said he'd never pay top dollar for players even if he had the money, then did so.

He said he'd never sign a player in January, then signed VVD.

Forgive me for not accepting that what he says is what he means.
 

sms1986

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When he arrived Klopp called the loan system madness, and is now its biggest fan.

He said he'd never pay top dollar for players even if he had the money, then did so.

He said he'd never sign a player in January, then signed VVD.

Forgive me for not accepting that what he says is what he means.
The last two have worked out brilliantly for us so I'm glad he changed his mind there!
 

dockers_strike

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The thing to bear in mind regarding this €100m net profit is, it is not Liverpool that is bigging up this news. It is UEFA and all the football pages. 'Look, Liverpool the first club to have €100m net profit' they scream then the people jump on it. So what, it is an exceptional circumstance off the back of selling a player for over £100m and reaching the CL final.

But as I alluded to before, you cannot spend every last penny on squad reinforcements. Again, as I mentioned before, ground and infrastructure improvements are needed. Just where do some think the money for continual redevelopment of the ground and training facilities come from? It either comes from the club's overall budget or a sugar daddy. Personally, Im happy the owners are putting the club on a sound financial footing and not building up huge debt and all that entails.

Supposing we did adopt a policy of spending every last penny on the players, there's at least two problems I can see: First, selling clubs are going to up their prices because they know you're just going to spend all that lovely money you have sloshing around your bank account. Second, are you really going to get elite players to come and sit on the bench, possibly even not make the squad on match days when they have Allison, Trent, van Dijk, Robbo, Fabinho,Mane, Salah
Yes I do appreciate the time lag in coefficient.



I didn't say I expected us to win all four, I said I expect us to compete for them.

Competing means getting to the latter stages, not necessarily winning it. We are the only top six club that has gone out of the domestic cups in the early rounds every year since we started competing for top four again.

Every other top club manages to compete for top four, play in Europe and do better in domestic cups than we do.

We got to the League Cup final in Klopp's first season, when we finished well outside the top 4 (and top 6), but since then have gone out of the League Cup and FA Cup early each season.

We all know that to win a trophy - especially cups - you need things to go your way, but the longer you stay in each tournament the better chance you have (in fact the only chance you have).

I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win. It gives more players playing time, it gives the supporters a day out at Wembley and it gives the players experience of semis and finals that help them handle title run ins and CL latter stages.

That we don't get anywhere in domestic cups to me indicates that more work is necessary on the squad, both with the intent of competing on four fronts and especially as having a squad deep enough to compete on 4 fronts also means you stand a better chance in the main two trophies (PL and CL).

I can accept the situation this season, but if we have to go out of domestic cups early every year in order to compete for the title and CL, that to me is unacceptable.



Clubs that spend the most money win the most trophies over the medium term.

We can compete despite this under Klopp, but we would be more equipped to win things if the squad was stronger.

You can't coach the likes of Moreno to be any better. You can't change the fact that three centre backs are injury prone until you swap them out. There is no young player ready to play during a title challenge and CL campaign.

You don't have to pay big bucks for every signing, but you need to sign players constantly and consistently.

If Klopp doesn't want this he's limiting his own chances of success. The club should be capable of spending more and Klopp should want to.
Sorry but what's the point in 'competing' in a competition if you're not intending to win it? That's just a massive cop out and a waste of time and players energy. Everyone has their own opinion but I dont see the point 'competing' in the FA Cup to get knocked out in the later stages. Not only that, it massively weakens and reduces any chance you have of winning the Premier League or Champions League.

You say "We are the only top six club that has gone out of the domestic cups in the early rounds every year since we started competing for top four again." So what, the priority has to be the PL and securing CL football. Again, I dont see any greater kudos going out of the FA Cup or EFL Cup in the semis compared to the 3rd round.

You also say "I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win." Erm, no it doesnt. We last won the league in 1990. We last won a cup in 2012. In the 22 years between 1990 and 2012, we won 11 cups if you include the European Super Cup and CL. In not one of those years that we won a cup or the follow years between winning cups did we win the title.

Your proposition that winning cups makes us as a team more likely to win the title is utterly blasted apart since we won 11 cups to zero titles. As in 2014, this year we look even better placed to win the title and we're out of both domestic cups. If we win the title this year, it will be because we were not 'competing' in the latter stages of the domestic cups not because we could have been.
 

Lowton_Red

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Every other top club manages to compete for top four, play in Europe and do better in domestic cups than we do.
OK, but can you tell me, in the last seven seasons, how many English clubs have reached the Champions League final and also finished in the top four of the PL, at the same time?
 

liver1

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Yes I do appreciate the time lag in coefficient.



I didn't say I expected us to win all four, I said I expect us to compete for them.

Competing means getting to the latter stages, not necessarily winning it. We are the only top six club that has gone out of the domestic cups in the early rounds every year since we started competing for top four again.

Every other top club manages to compete for top four, play in Europe and do better in domestic cups than we do.

We got to the League Cup final in Klopp's first season, when we finished well outside the top 4 (and top 6), but since then have gone out of the League Cup and FA Cup early each season.

We all know that to win a trophy - especially cups - you need things to go your way, but the longer you stay in each tournament the better chance you have (in fact the only chance you have).

I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win. It gives more players playing time, it gives the supporters a day out at Wembley and it gives the players experience of semis and finals that help them handle title run ins and CL latter stages.

That we don't get anywhere in domestic cups to me indicates that more work is necessary on the squad, both with the intent of competing on four fronts and especially as having a squad deep enough to compete on 4 fronts also means you stand a better chance in the main two trophies (PL and CL).

I can accept the situation this season, but if we have to go out of domestic cups early every year in order to compete for the title and CL, that to me is unacceptable.
We havent won the league for 28 years.

And for most of those 28 years we havent been competing for the league.

So if we need to bin the FA cup and league cup to challenge for the league every year, thats fine by me. Better than being in the doldrums for nearly 3 decades on the title that really matters.
 

mattyhurst

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It’s not like we haven’t been to any finals in the last 3 years, the fact is we lost them and fair enough but on another day two could have been won, one was the lottery of pens and we were in that CL for at least a half. If Alison had been in goal we might well have been in it for a lot longer.

If Klopp had been achieving just 4th I’d have criticisms though still not major just yet but he has given our fans 3 days out in 3 seasons. Who knows he might make it 4 in 4, I’d bloody love it if he did, but if he doesn’t fair enough. You could say he sacrificed the cups for the league we all want, but we dominated that Chelsea team in the League Cup and we drew Wolves away probably the hardest club outside of the top 6 away.

I’m sure that team would have beaten a Reading at home as Man Utd did or Tranmere away as Spurs did but we couldn’t risk our defence, you look at City tonight they seemingly played some top players but they all featured in the attacking third, their defence were they are lighter they did not so much.
 

Lowton_Red

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The latest Deloitte Football Money League report has just been released, and, according to the report, our "revenue increased by £90.6m (25%), the highest uplift of any top ten Money League club, emphasising the financial reward from a strong showing in UEFA’s flagship competition and the impact of on-pitch performance on a club’s Money League position. Almost half of total revenue (49%) was received from broadcasters with the club earning the equal most broadcast revenue of the Money League top 20 alongside Real Madrid".

According to Deloitte's figures, turnover, in the season 2017/18, increased to £455.1 million.
By far the greatest proportion of this increase came in broadcasting revenue, up £65.8 million on the previous season to £222.6 million.
Matchday revenue was up £12.4 million to £81.2 million and commercial revenue showed a similar increase to £151.3 million.

While the growth in broadcasting revenue is impressive, Deloitte included the following cautionary comment:
"However, with the Premier League’s tender for the next cycle of domestic rights from 2019/20 complete and sale of overseas rights nearing conclusion, it is clear that Premier League clubs will be unable to rely on explosive growth in broadcast distributions as a source of future growth, as has been the case in recent years.

As a result, we expect an even greater emphasis among these clubs on generating their own growth in the coming season, and in particular the optimisation of commercial revenue, which has been a key area for differentiating growth across most of Europe’s leading clubs in recent years."

This is of particular relevance to us as the annual growth in our commercial revenue at £12.4 million (8.93%), is still not particularly impressive when compared to Chealsea's growth of £30.1 million (21.53%), City at £37.3 million (18.83%) and Tottenham at £31.1 million (43.13%).

Tottenham's impressive growth is as a consequence of their new kit deal with Nike. Hopefully our new kit deal will go some way to redress this imbalance in revenue.
 

Billy Biskix

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I didn't say I expected us to win all four, I said I expect us to compete for them.

Competing means getting to the latter stages, not necessarily winning it. We are the only top six club that has gone out of the domestic cups in the early rounds every year since we started competing for top four again.

Every other top club manages to compete for top four, play in Europe and do better in domestic cups than we do.

We got to the League Cup final in Klopp's first season, when we finished well outside the top 4 (and top 6), but since then have gone out of the League Cup and FA Cup early each season.

We all know that to win a trophy - especially cups - you need things to go your way, but the longer you stay in each tournament the better chance you have (in fact the only chance you have).

I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win. It gives more players playing time, it gives the supporters a day out at Wembley and it gives the players experience of semis and finals that help them handle title run ins and CL latter stages.

That we don't get anywhere in domestic cups to me indicates that more work is necessary on the squad, both with the intent of competing on four fronts and especially as having a squad deep enough to compete on 4 fronts also means you stand a better chance in the main two trophies (PL and CL).

I can accept the situation this season, but if we have to go out of domestic cups early every year in order to compete for the title and CL, that to me is unacceptable.
Bit late to the party on this one but thought I should point out there is a factual inaccuracy here. In JK's first full season we finished top 4 and also made the League Cup semi-final. In fact we were also still in the FA Cup at that stage and the fixture congestion almost led to our entire season grinding to a halt, much like Tottenham's is threatening to do now given the injuries they have.

In every domestic cup draw since then we have drawn a PL club. Give us a draw against a lower league side and we might have progressed a bit further. Priorities have changed now as they have to for a team that doesn't just want to finish top 4 but actually can win the title or the CL. It's basic common sense.

I have a problem with the definition of 'competitive' here because it appears to hinge heavily on us making the latter stages of the domestic cups. This is either a very outdated method of measuring how competitive a club is or a weirdly contrived one. Surely having the best start to a league season in the entire history of the club and making the CL knock out stages having made it to the final the previous year is the very definition of 'competitive'. It's why players like Alisson and VVD have come to Anfield. They haven't come here to play in the Carabao Cup semi-final. In fact Alisson will never even play in a domestic cup game.

There is only one club that can realistically compete across all 4 competitions i.e. they could actually win all of them and that is Man City. And that is probably because since 2015 they have a net spend of half a billion pounds.
 

RedForever2014

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Bit late to the party on this one but thought I should point out there is a factual inaccuracy here. In JK's first full season we finished top 4 and also made the League Cup semi-final. In fact we were also still in the FA Cup at that stage and the fixture congestion almost led to our entire season grinding to a halt, much like Tottenham's is threatening to do now given the injuries they have.

In every domestic cup draw since then we have drawn a PL club. Give us a draw against a lower league side and we might have progressed a bit further. Priorities have changed now as they have to for a team that doesn't just want to finish top 4 but actually can win the title or the CL. It's basic common sense.

I have a problem with the definition of 'competitive' here because it appears to hinge heavily on us making the latter stages of the domestic cups. This is either a very outdated method of measuring how competitive a club is or a weirdly contrived one. Surely having the best start to a league season in the entire history of the club and making the CL knock out stages having made it to the final the previous year is the very definition of 'competitive'. It's why players like Alisson and VVD have come to Anfield. They haven't come here to play in the Carabao Cup semi-final. In fact Alisson will never even play in a domestic cup game.

There is only one club that can realistically compete across all 4 competitions i.e. they could actually win all of them and that is Man City. And that is probably because since 2015 they have a net spend of half a billion pounds.
As I said I have no short term issues with domestic cup underperformance, and to be fair we've had some unlucky draws, but I expect to see a better performance in them over the medium term.