The Owners

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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Liverpool FC, of all clubs, paying zero tax? Shameful.
 

Billy Biskix

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I didn't say I expected us to win all four, I said I expect us to compete for them.

Competing means getting to the latter stages, not necessarily winning it. We are the only top six club that has gone out of the domestic cups in the early rounds every year since we started competing for top four again.

Every other top club manages to compete for top four, play in Europe and do better in domestic cups than we do.

We got to the League Cup final in Klopp's first season, when we finished well outside the top 4 (and top 6), but since then have gone out of the League Cup and FA Cup early each season.

We all know that to win a trophy - especially cups - you need things to go your way, but the longer you stay in each tournament the better chance you have (in fact the only chance you have).

I believe staying in domestic cups longer is helpful. It gives you a greater chance of picking up trophies, especially as the PL and CL are extremely difficult to win. It gives more players playing time, it gives the supporters a day out at Wembley and it gives the players experience of semis and finals that help them handle title run ins and CL latter stages.

That we don't get anywhere in domestic cups to me indicates that more work is necessary on the squad, both with the intent of competing on four fronts and especially as having a squad deep enough to compete on 4 fronts also means you stand a better chance in the main two trophies (PL and CL).

I can accept the situation this season, but if we have to go out of domestic cups early every year in order to compete for the title and CL, that to me is unacceptable.
Bit late to the party on this one but thought I should point out there is a factual inaccuracy here. In JK's first full season we finished top 4 and also made the League Cup semi-final. In fact we were also still in the FA Cup at that stage and the fixture congestion almost led to our entire season grinding to a halt, much like Tottenham's is threatening to do now given the injuries they have.

In every domestic cup draw since then we have drawn a PL club. Give us a draw against a lower league side and we might have progressed a bit further. Priorities have changed now as they have to for a team that doesn't just want to finish top 4 but actually can win the title or the CL. It's basic common sense.

I have a problem with the definition of 'competitive' here because it appears to hinge heavily on us making the latter stages of the domestic cups. This is either a very outdated method of measuring how competitive a club is or a weirdly contrived one. Surely having the best start to a league season in the entire history of the club and making the CL knock out stages having made it to the final the previous year is the very definition of 'competitive'. It's why players like Alisson and VVD have come to Anfield. They haven't come here to play in the Carabao Cup semi-final. In fact Alisson will never even play in a domestic cup game.

There is only one club that can realistically compete across all 4 competitions i.e. they could actually win all of them and that is Man City. And that is probably because since 2015 they have a net spend of half a billion pounds.
 

RedForever2014

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Bit late to the party on this one but thought I should point out there is a factual inaccuracy here. In JK's first full season we finished top 4 and also made the League Cup semi-final. In fact we were also still in the FA Cup at that stage and the fixture congestion almost led to our entire season grinding to a halt, much like Tottenham's is threatening to do now given the injuries they have.

In every domestic cup draw since then we have drawn a PL club. Give us a draw against a lower league side and we might have progressed a bit further. Priorities have changed now as they have to for a team that doesn't just want to finish top 4 but actually can win the title or the CL. It's basic common sense.

I have a problem with the definition of 'competitive' here because it appears to hinge heavily on us making the latter stages of the domestic cups. This is either a very outdated method of measuring how competitive a club is or a weirdly contrived one. Surely having the best start to a league season in the entire history of the club and making the CL knock out stages having made it to the final the previous year is the very definition of 'competitive'. It's why players like Alisson and VVD have come to Anfield. They haven't come here to play in the Carabao Cup semi-final. In fact Alisson will never even play in a domestic cup game.

There is only one club that can realistically compete across all 4 competitions i.e. they could actually win all of them and that is Man City. And that is probably because since 2015 they have a net spend of half a billion pounds.
As I said I have no short term issues with domestic cup underperformance, and to be fair we've had some unlucky draws, but I expect to see a better performance in them over the medium term.
 

Red_Jedi

Anfield kick about
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As I said I have no short term issues with domestic cup underperformance, and to be fair we've had some unlucky draws, but I expect to see a better performance in them over the medium term.
So in the last 7 seasons we have been in 5 Cup Finals and at least 2 Semi Finals. Not many teams have a better record than that.

In Jurgen's time, we have been in 3 finals and 1 semi final. I suppose you'll now say you are only talking about Domestic cups.....

I'd rather reach a Champions League final, than win the league cup.
 

lfc.eddie

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So in the last 7 seasons we have been in 5 Cup Finals and at least 2 Semi Finals. Not many teams have a better record than that.

In Jurgen's time, we have been in 3 finals and 1 semi final. I suppose you'll now say you are only talking about Domestic cups.....

I'd rather reach a Champions League final, than win the league cup.
If we are in 7 cup finals, wouldn’t we be in the same or equal the amount of semi finals to the finals?
 

Kopstar

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lol. There's always one! If you ever look into the history of LFC in cups - it always states where they reached. So I was assuming most people would have worked that out, apologies to you sir for not being clear!
It was clear. We don't talk about making the semi-finals of the Champions League in 2005, 2007 or 2018 as if it's a separate achievement to winning it or finishing runners-up.
 

Sweeting

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Great effort by the club to break the GK world record, defender world record and still post a world record profit!
 

lfc.eddie

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Great effort by the club to break the GK world record, defender world record and still post a world record profit!
Don’t think those guys fall in that financial year reported, maybe Van Dijk, but certainly not Alisson. The biggest positive should be the wage bill management from the club.
 

dockers_strike

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I think the owners are well on the road to making the club self sufficient while at the same time, building a new main stand, planning to re build ARE, build and upgrade Kirkby and make the club competitive on the field by buying the right players. Im not particularly bothered about the record profit but obviously, it goes hand in hand with the overall plan. Id far rather the club paid it's way rather than become like PSG, City and Chelsea, the day Liverpool FC do become the plaything of a mega rich individual is the day I'll go and start supporting Marine FC.

But there will be those who will complain that not every last penny of the money was not put into player purchases. Those people clearly do not know how to run a market stall never mind a football club.
 

Sweeting

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Don’t think those guys fall in that financial year reported, maybe Van Dijk, but certainly not Alisson. The biggest positive should be the wage bill management from the club.
Ah OK - well that result paved the way for those signings then I assume so still good management.
 

epsomred

Give yourselves the chance to be heros
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Great story but a bit misleading. In accounting terms, profit and cash are not the same things. Hence amazon rakes in shed loads of cash but does not make much of a profit. In the crazy world of football accounting player sales are credited in the year they happen but player purchases and investments in the ground are treated as assets and amortised over the period of their likely useful life. So profits for this year are boosted by the countinho sale whereas the cash invested in the main stand, van dycke etc counts as investments in assets and is spread over a number of years. Of course the phil money will also come in over a number of years but I think the club treat it as a one off profit hence the discrepancy this year. Still a great position to be in compared to the gillet/hicks years but not as simple as we now have £100m to spend.
 

lfc.eddie

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Of course the phil money will also come in over a number of years but I think the club treat it as a one off profit hence the discrepancy this year.
Payment over a period is booked in cash flow, but invoice issued are treated as lump sum revenue in P&L. Add-ons will be booked as and when it happened in the P&L. You cannot go about reading the rest of the articles talking about who we bought and how much we've spent. Different authors wrote them very differently which goes to show journalist should never attempt to sound too clever in reporting accounts unless they know what they have the qualification.
 

epsomred

Give yourselves the chance to be heros
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Payment over a period is booked in cash flow, but invoice issued are treated as lump sum revenue in P&L. Add-ons will be booked as and when it happened in the P&L. You cannot go about reading the rest of the articles talking about who we bought and how much we've spent. Different authors wrote them very differently which goes to show journalist should never attempt to sound too clever in reporting accounts unless they know what they have the qualification.
Yes your right. I meant the initial fee not the add ons but I think the wider point still stands that there is a mis leading mis match between how the club accounts for sales versus purchases/investments. Not deliberate mistatement just a quirk of uk GAAP as applied to football clubs.
 

lfc.eddie

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talent retention. It works when talent acquisition is good to begin with!

Does FSG have any debt at this point in time? It's great how they've developed everything up until this point and still have more plans in store.
No they don't, but Liverpool FC does.... acquisition isn't the only thing that determined the talent retained will give you good value. It's talent development as well. You can acquire the best of the best, but if you don't know how to develop them you will end up having a bunch of Schevchenko or Markovic running around.
 

JustHitMyHead

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No they don't, but Liverpool FC does.... It's talent development as well. You can acquire the best of the best, but if you don't know how to develop them you will end up having a bunch of Schevchenko or Markovic running around.
No... they wouldn't be running around. The Schevchenkos and Markovics would be sitting on the bench or in the stands.
 



Arminius

FSG PR plant
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talent retention. It works when talent acquisition is good to begin with!

Does FSG have any debt at this point in time? It's great how they've developed everything up until this point and still have more plans in store.
Excluding debt owed by LFC to FSG's holding vehicle, LFC's bank debt was £79M in the last reports filed (May 2017). Basically the stadium debt, if I recall correctly a five year term so the imminent May 2018 ones will like show around ~£60M.
 

Red over the water

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It’s going well. The planning and execution on the pitch is also evident off the pitch in all aspects - stadium development, training facilities, commercial growth. It’s a symbiotic relationship. We are in a phase where the whole club is being built up a bit more, and hopefully some silverware is just around the corner.
 

Lowton_Red

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Excluding debt owed by LFC to FSG's holding vehicle, LFC's bank debt was £79M in the last reports filed (May 2017). Basically the stadium debt, if I recall correctly a five year term so the imminent May 2018 ones will like show around ~£60M.
The stadium debt is the inter-company debt (owed to the parent company, UKSV Holdings Company Ltd) which stood at £109.949 million in the last accounts.
The club also has a revolving credit facility of £150 million for "general corporate purposes including working capital and letters of credit" i.e. primarily for player purchases. for a term of five years from September 2015. This secured bank facility is due to mature in September 2020. As of 30 May 2017, £71.709 million had been drawn down against this facility (£73 million, less £1.291million deferred loan costs).
 

lfc.eddie

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The stadium debt is the inter-company debt (owed to the parent company, UKSV Holdings Company Ltd) which stood at £109.949 million in the last accounts.
Yeah, that is what was reported as I recall. Minor interest inter-co loan by the owners to the club.
Liverpool repay £10million to FSG for Main Stand loan
Liverpool FC have repaid £10million of the £110million loan from owners Fenway Sports Group for the building of Anfield's new Main Stand.

The latest accounts for the year to May 31 2018 show that the first repayment on the inter-company loan from the club’s holding company UKSV Holdings Company Limited has been made. The balance now stands just below £100million.

FSG took out the loan in America to finance the stadium redevelopment. Two years ago accounts showed that the interest rate payable was 1.24% and that has since gone up to 2.4%.
Still very low interest rate, but I see FSG is feeling the squeeze.