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The Owners

Maria

SUPER Champions of Europe VI
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Jul 2, 2006
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15,797
I hope Redforever14 comes back. He was always a very respectful poster. I didn't always agree with him , but it is always good to have diverse and different opinions in the TIA.

@Redforever14, I hope you come back after a break away from here.

Right now, I feel underwhelmed with this summer transfer window. We could have at least signed one experienced player.

Klopp was feeling in a very "bullish" mood in his press conference. He knows what he is doing.
 


Red over the water

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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,435
I thought Red Forever had a reasonable enough view i.e. we need a couple of signings. A lot of people felt the same way. Not "need" as in "we are desperate, and a bit rubbish" but "need" as in "let's kick on from a position of strength."

So that part of the argument was fair enough.

Where it slightly lost its way was with reading intent or insider knowledge into the happenings. The fact that we didn't spend much money was taken as proof positive that the owners are pocketing cash, or clipping the manager's wings. The speculation then went even further to suggest that Jurgen was in on it all, with a healthy financial bonus coming his way for keeping the spending level down.

That sort of stuff lost me, and I try to be fair minded towards my fellow reds. It all started to sound a bit too conspiratorial, and also repetitive (though most of us are guilty of being a little repetitive to be fair).

Here's what we know from Jurgen's tenure:

He will work with players and give them a chance if he thinks they can make the grade. That's a big part of the collective spirit he has fostered. He improves players through coaching, whether they are coming through or seasoned internationals. If he feels it needs more, and a deal is there to be done, he will enter the market decisively. Sometimes it's a canny acquisition at low cost, so fans should be careful about equating cost with value. On the other hand, sometimes he has spent big money to really see the team kick on - world record fee at the time for a defender, and also for a goalkeeper. We have improved year on year, are current European Champions, and were very narrowly beaten to the Prem title after getting a record 97 points.

My own take is that the market has gone mad, and from a position of strength we decided to (by and large) sit it out. I'm pretty sure money is there if the right deal comes along, and I fully expect us to be in there when that time comes. In the meantime we have kept our excellent side together, Keita is now integrated and we should expect more, Ox is back from injury, a hungry Brewster is ready to make his mark, and if any of them fail to step up, we've got a lad with a topknot waiting in the wings, with bollocks the size of a space hopper, who will come in and show them all how it's done!

It's time to settle down and enjoy the action, starting with Norwich tomorrow. I can't wait!
 
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Chewbazza

True Believer
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Well I for one won't miss RedForever2014. Posting as if nothing had changed since 2014.

Eloquence in posting shouldn't score you extra points, if the point you are trying to make is the same one you've been making in every post for the last five years.

Maybe if he'd taken the time to talk about different transfer targets that he thought would have added to the team, or about who he thinks as the better partner for VVD this year, or who thinks might get sacked first this year etc.

But for me if all you're offering is negativity based in paranoia or agenda, then you aren't offering anything I want to read.

Perhaps at this point I am too overpositive about this season and the future, but that's only because every time i've questioned the actions of Klopp and Edwards in the past, I have been 100% shown that the doubts were misplaced and a waste of my time.

RF2014 had no interest in all the things that were proving him wrong, year by year, week by week, culminating in winning number 6. Had we spent, it wouldn't have been enough. We didn't spend it's FSG nicking the money. Mané had forced through a move to Real? That'd be FSG selling to fund us for another year.

Different opinions are great. But when you only have one and it directs everything that you say. That's not so great

I hope they can remember why they started supporting LFC and can realise that nothing FSG do or don't do should have any influence on supporting the club you love.
 



Digger88

Member
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Jan 19, 2017
Messages
157
Well I for one won't miss RedForever2014. Posting as if nothing had changed since 2014.

Eloquence in posting shouldn't score you extra points, if the point you are trying to make is the same one you've been making in every post for the last five years.

Maybe if he'd taken the time to talk about different transfer targets that he thought would have added to the team, or about who he thinks as the better partner for VVD this year, or who thinks might get sacked first this year etc.

But for me if all you're offering is negativity based in paranoia or agenda, then you aren't offering anything I want to read.

Perhaps at this point I am too overpositive about this season and the future, but that's only because every time i've questioned the actions of Klopp and Edwards in the past, I have been 100% shown that the doubts were misplaced and a waste of my time.

RF2014 had no interest in all the things that were proving him wrong, year by year, week by week, culminating in winning number 6. Had we spent, it wouldn't have been enough. We didn't spend it's FSG nicking the money. Mané had forced through a move to Real? That'd be FSG selling to fund us for another year.

Different opinions are great. But when you only have one and it directs everything that you say. That's not so great

I hope they can remember why they started supporting LFC and can realise that nothing FSG do or don't do should have any influence on supporting the club you love.

I noticed a change in his postings for the past Year and a bit up until this summer after VVD, Allison were brought in. When you talk about different opinions is there anyone now who posts regularly who is not warm to elated as FSG as owners? Redforever, LFC Orlando, Marcus Bergland, Maurice all left or not posting anymore on the owners section? If you agree with FSG or not as Owners when you are not bringing any first team players in you are ripe for criticism. If all the Anti-FSG posters have left or been kicked off TIA then you will likely get a uniform view with some difference of opinion on FSG being Brillant, Really Good or Good.
 

Chewbazza

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I noticed a change in his postings for the past Year and a bit up until this summer after VVD, Allison were brought in. When you talk about different opinions is there anyone now who posts regularly who is not warm to elated as FSG as owners? Redforever, LFC Orlando, Marcus Bergland, Maurice all left or not posting anymore on the owners section? If you agree with FSG or not as Owners when you are not bringing any first team players in you are ripe for criticism. If all the Anti-FSG posters have left or been kicked off TIA then you will likely get a uniform view with some difference of opinion on FSG being Brillant, Really Good or Good.
There's a good few who are less than impressed with not bringing in new players, but they're not suggesting that FSG are deliberately making us shitter than we could be so they can maximise profits.

There's plenty of people critical over the attempts to tradmark the club etc. These people recognise it's a bad move but are (i think) able to recognise the good moves that they are making.

I don't see what constant and unmoving criticism of the owners (in the face of massive improvements to the club, on and off the pitch) actually achieves, so I don't think it particularly matters if there's anyone left to do it.
 

FilthyBloke

Undervalued member.
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Feb 26, 2018
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1,900
This is why I preferred football in the 80s. The discussion was all about the game. Not net spend. Or commercial contracts. Or hyping up some 16 year old.
Sometimes it feels like the old football chat has been replaced by some board room meeting focusing on profits and spreadsheets.

I think the owners are doing fine. They are quietly running their business well. Klopp has been backed with his transfers but the bills still have to be paid.

But more importantly, we are playing great football and are the European champions.
That doesn’t happen if you have crap owners.
 

Digger88

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Jan 19, 2017
Messages
157
There's a good few who are less than impressed with not bringing in new players, but they're not suggesting that FSG are deliberately making us shitter than we could be so they can maximise profits.

There's plenty of people critical over the attempts to trademark the club etc. These people recognise it's a bad move but are (i think) able to recognise the good moves that they are making.

I don't see what constant and unmoving criticism of the owners (in the face of massive improvements to the club, on and off the pitch) actually achieves, so I don't think it particularly matters if there's anyone left to do it.

They have been very good owners for the last Year and a half both on and off the pitch. they are still very good owners off the pitch with the new deals AXA and new kit deal and training naming rights to come soon hopefully. The mood music on ARE and selling Melwood for Social Housing fit what Liverpool as a club should be about. The recruitment of Klopp, Edwards and Graham's team has been inspired. By not bringing in players they are potentially making us poorer and we will be able to answer this question by Christmas at the latest. I would hedge that we will be poorer over the course for a number of reasons.

1 Cliche but new quality signing's create excitement amongst fans and player's as they increase competition and show a willingness to strive for continued exclexance. VVD Allison and Kieta the year before as a very recent example.

2. the flip side of that will be that Reps of RM, Barca PSG Munich will say to our top Player's and Agents. Conversations such as Look liverpool is a great club and you might win something Big if you stay another 5-10 Years. Here at above mentioned clubs we are consistent in making signings that show their ambition to win every year or to at least challenge.

3. Our 3 starting Forwards have played a serious amount of football as a group this summer which could well led to a drop-off early door's in the season.

4. The Qatar tournament more so in time and disruption will hamper our smaller squad at a crucial time.

The annoying thing is that we are a great team that could become a dynasty. It needed a good advanced playmaker another quality forward and a LB who can also do a job at RB. Being greedy a deep lying playmaker if Lallana isn't up to it. if we regress and are much closer to Spurs than City and players like VVD, Salah Mane decide to leave then we will rue this summer inactivity as European Champions. spending like its the 86/87 season just doesn't cut if for me and many others.

Klopp could turn it around like he did without Salah and Firmino and the Semi. He could still build a great dynasty but my point being is that this summer lack of business has not helped him when we are one of the most attractive clubs in the world at the minute.

I seen a difference after the VVD and other signings from Redforever and many of the others had left before The upturn in Liverpool fC Fortunes. I believe Redfan talked about Redforever calling people FSG Apologists and if a blanket statement on everyone then that is wrong. He also IMHO got far too much stick in a gang like fashion from some poster's who went out of their way to goad him. In any case he is gone now and the forum is lesser for it. I'm of to bed now so I wish you all well.
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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Some great points made digger.

Except the one about redforever.

Most of his points were ok, certainly the majority were articulate, but after so many years of hearing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ( you get the point) again without troubling any other topics in the forum you generally get a group of people who are sick of hearing it.

It’s getting painted as him being some form of victim here for ‘daring’ to speak his mind when nothing could be further from the truth.

The mods and the forum owners are the victims becuase they have to keep trying to right the ship after another episode of ‘I’m a corporate fixer, I know shit you couldn’t possibly dream of’ self aggrandising shite from a narcissist who couldn’t even utter the words .....’I understand your point, and it’s not without merit’ .......if he tried.

Nope, not for me, is this revisionism.

If your looking for people who don’t trust FSG, me and Eddie are still here.....trust might be the wrong word there....more....’happy to scrutinise’....

But the weight of facts are here that it’s not FSG that have ‘failed to strengthen’ this off season, it’s the management group they have put in place.......
 



LFC-Orlando

TIA First Team
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Jan 29, 2009
Messages
7,845
@Digger88 hi. I'm here and yes, my opinion has somewhat changed over the past 2 seasons. I'm still cautious as a result of some of their statements though.....The Tom Werner Madrid comment about investing and attracting the world's best players comes to mind. I know that he also said that it's up to Klopp and Edwards to make the transfer decisions.

There's a "convenient" set-up for a disconnect here. Maybe Jurgen will never ask for several "back-up" players, cause he's rightly worried about how squad players ranked 12 through 22 may react to buying a net new, additional back-up. For example, 1 or 2 true FB back up would likely steal some of Gomez's or Milner's minutes.

We'll never know if any of the 6 points dropped in Jan/Feb (WH, LC and ManU) could have been prevented. What we do know is that we are up against an FFP violating club that has 2-3 players for each position. I hope we are never owned by an unethical group like that. But spending 10-20M on 1-2 good FB squad players should have been completed last Jan or this summer.
 

Incognito

The Normal One
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Jan 6, 2011
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2,961
Football has become just about winning, winning at any cost. Fans no longer enjoy the matches if that doesn't result in their teams winning something at the end. But the catch here is we just won the CL. There's no reason not to enjoy this ride.

While some of the points RF2014 made may be valid, there was never a rational reply to the cross arguments to know what else should we do then. Except just owners not pumping money. Felt bad looking at that last post accusing Klopp of all people having a contract that is just good enough to keep spend at minimum while it'll be okay of he doesn't win, accusing those backing Klopp and owners of being paid and all. It's Jurgen Klopp FFS, the best thing that happened to this club in a while. How can one not trust that guy or at the very least accuse him of not caring about the club and the fans? :-(
 

Chewbazza

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They have been very good owners for the last Year and a half both on and off the pitch. they are still very good owners off the pitch with the new deals AXA and new kit deal and training naming rights to come soon hopefully. The mood music on ARE and selling Melwood for Social Housing fit what Liverpool as a club should be about. The recruitment of Klopp, Edwards and Graham's team has been inspired. By not bringing in players they are potentially making us poorer and we will be able to answer this question by Christmas at the latest. I would hedge that we will be poorer over the course for a number of reasons.

1 Cliche but new quality signing's create excitement amongst fans and player's as they increase competition and show a willingness to strive for continued exclexance. VVD Allison and Kieta the year before as a very recent example.

2. the flip side of that will be that Reps of RM, Barca PSG Munich will say to our top Player's and Agents. Conversations such as Look liverpool is a great club and you might win something Big if you stay another 5-10 Years. Here at above mentioned clubs we are consistent in making signings that show their ambition to win every year or to at least challenge.

3. Our 3 starting Forwards have played a serious amount of football as a group this summer which could well led to a drop-off early door's in the season.

4. The Qatar tournament more so in time and disruption will hamper our smaller squad at a crucial time.

The annoying thing is that we are a great team that could become a dynasty. It needed a good advanced playmaker another quality forward and a LB who can also do a job at RB. Being greedy a deep lying playmaker if Lallana isn't up to it. if we regress and are much closer to Spurs than City and players like VVD, Salah Mane decide to leave then we will rue this summer inactivity as European Champions. spending like its the 86/87 season just doesn't cut if for me and many others.

Klopp could turn it around like he did without Salah and Firmino and the Semi. He could still build a great dynasty but my point being is that this summer lack of business has not helped him when we are one of the most attractive clubs in the world at the minute.

I seen a difference after the VVD and other signings from Redforever and many of the others had left before The upturn in Liverpool fC Fortunes. I believe Redfan talked about Redforever calling people FSG Apologists and if a blanket statement on everyone then that is wrong. He also IMHO got far too much stick in a gang like fashion from some poster's who went out of their way to goad him. In any case he is gone now and the forum is lesser for it. I'm of to bed now so I wish you all well.
I never saw it a posters going after him in a gang like fashion, I saw it as a large number of posters who disagreed with almost everything he posted.

When it came obvious that he was never going to do anything but that which he was doing, then personally I think everyone should have just stopped responding or put him on ignore, which I suppose would eventually have resulted in him leaving anyway.

I agree that we should have strengthened this summer. I doubt you'll find a single Liverpool fan who was thinking in June 'You know what....we're fine as we are.'

If you want to be critical of Klopp or the owners because of it, that's no problem.
 

Billy Biskix

TIA Youth Team
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I noticed a change in his postings for the past Year and a bit up until this summer after VVD, Allison were brought in. When you talk about different opinions is there anyone now who posts regularly who is not warm to elated as FSG as owners? Redforever, LFC Orlando, Marcus Bergland, Maurice all left or not posting anymore on the owners section? If you agree with FSG or not as Owners when you are not bringing any first team players in you are ripe for criticism. If all the Anti-FSG posters have left or been kicked off TIA then you will likely get a uniform view with some difference of opinion on FSG being Brillant, Really Good or Good.
This is a good point and I am all for a dissenting voice. Some of the posters you mention there, especially Marcus, have been treated poorly on here at times. But there is a difference between being a dissenting voice and being a permanently fucking miserable one.

RF's issue wasn't just with FSG. Klopp was a serial loser who'd never win anything and the team were a bunch of bottlers, said at a time when other than die on the pitch there wasn't much more they could give mentally or physically to win a football match. For me he was firmly in the camp of someone who simply could not handle being proved wrong about something on the internet. So, rather than adapt your opinion according to the evidence available, you ignore it all and paint the bleakest possible picture hoping that at some point your opinion might come back into fashion.

I am more FSG-sceptical than most and was a lot more angry and vocal about it previously. It's not that they are bad owners. It's their ultra-cautious approach that frustrates me (and their occasional misplaced boasting), but they brought us Klopp, a major coup, and all I ever wanted them to do was get the best possible manager and allow him to do the job in the way he wants to do it and that is what I believe they are doing. So no complaints from me currently and why would there be when it is such a fantastic time to be a Liverpool fan. Someone like RF, who as far as I could tell, has been around for at least as long as I have, must know this so I found the constant doing down of everything going on at the club weird, illogical and agenda driven.
 



Irishanfield

Internet Terrorist
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May 5, 2017
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I never saw it a posters going after him in a gang like fashion, I saw it as a large number of posters who disagreed with almost everything he posted.

When it came obvious that he was never going to do anything but that which he was doing, then personally I think everyone should have just stopped responding or put him on ignore, which I suppose would eventually have resulted in him leaving anyway.

I agree that we should have strengthened this summer. I doubt you'll find a single Liverpool fan who was thinking in June 'You know what....we're fine as we are.'

If you want to be critical of Klopp or the owners because of it, that's no problem.
Oh definitely were 2 or 3 that were constantly jumping on everything he'd say
 

carragold

TIA Youth Team
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Aug 23, 2010
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RF will be back if results are not going Liverpools way.
During a season he was most active on the forums when Liverpool didn't win a game.
 

igor_piss_can

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May 2, 2019
Messages
280
Can't speak for this fella you're all on about because I'm fairly new here and hadn't seen much of his posts. But one thing I've noticed on Twitter & the likes over the years is some people seem to care more about being right than the performances of their own team.

It's like some of them are waiting for the club to slip up so that they can give a big "I told you so" and pat themselves on the back. Don't open their mouths much when things are going well though, so I've thoroughly enjoyed digging up a few old tweets from the doom & gloomers I know after the CL win. I also regularly bump a tweet from my mate calling Salah "shite" which he posted about a month into the 2017/18 season. To be fair to him, he takes the ridicule on the chin and hasn't deleted the original post
 

igor_piss_can

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May 2, 2019
Messages
280
I am actually quite intrigued by this trademark thing. Especially on this paragraph in SOS I read

"For decades, local traders outside of Anfield have sold scarfs, hats, T-shirts etc and for many it’s their sole source of income. Scores of those T-shirts have been, and still are, happily worn by players, past and present. These traders provide a vibrant alternative to the club’s official merchandise and are bought by thousands of fans every matchday."

When I was there in Anfield, I see these vendors, it seriously did not cross my mind that they are not selling official merchandise, probably I was caught up in the excitement of my first visit.

Now that I read the article, with no disrespect and perhaps someone can enlighten in the context of the city, how are these vendors not selling " fake" merchandise and not paying the club its due for using the club name and logo on scarves etc.... How is that different from Liverpool merchandise found in a Bangkok night market selling for 200 baht? Or it is ok because they are locals?

As I mentioned, there might be context I am not aware of but from the surface, I see nothing wrong if the club wants to trademark the club and its assets on football merchandise
I think you may be getting counterfeit merchandise mixed up with unofficial merchandise. I've just came back from Holiday in Greece & there were plenty of counterfeit replica shirts on sale in the small stores & markets for a fraction of the price of what you'd pay normally. Many of these look like complete carbon copies of the official gear.

In terms of the unofficial merchandise, some of the stuff is brilliant and bears no resemblance to any official LFC product bar the name and maybe a Liverbird (although I think the club may have trademarked that now too). A lot of the official club merchandise I find to be pretty poor and unimaginative, unlike a lot of the unofficial stuff.

The local vendors have designed and sold a lot of this stuff for decades and are a big part of the club's fabric, as Liverpool has always been a club and a city which prides itself on fashion and it's unique sense of style. They are big part of the club, they're outside the ground every game and are a familar face, whereas somebody who is selling a fake Liverpool shirt on a rack of 20 other fake shirts in a Bangkok market is not
 

redaderry

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Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
2,466
In my ignorant bliss, i think we already have a fairly decent wee team which doesn't need too much other than a bit of tinkering by Klopp. Call me naive but didn't we just pick up 97 points and win the CL...
We could fight fire with fire i.e. out-spend/out-buy the likes of ManC for a few years. Then we would steamroll them and the league, possibly even picking up all 114 points, but we cant really afford that, nor would i enjoy that type of success as much as i have enjoyed the rollercoaster we've been on.
Also, anyone who thinks that Klopp has anything other than building a successful monster football team as his motivation is (IMO) badly mistaken.
 



gasband

The Singaporean Liverpool Never Managed To Sign
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I think you may be getting counterfeit merchandise mixed up with unofficial merchandise. I've just came back from Holiday in Greece & there were plenty of counterfeit replica shirts on sale in the small stores & markets for a fraction of the price of what you'd pay normally. Many of these look like complete carbon copies of the official gear.

In terms of the unofficial merchandise, some of the stuff is brilliant and bears no resemblance to any official LFC product bar the name and maybe a Liverbird (although I think the club may have trademarked that now too). A lot of the official club merchandise I find to be pretty poor and unimaginative, unlike a lot of the unofficial stuff.

The local vendors have designed and sold a lot of this stuff for decades and are a big part of the club's fabric, as Liverpool has always been a club and a city which prides itself on fashion and it's unique sense of style. They are big part of the club, they're outside the ground every game and are a familar face, whereas somebody who is selling a fake Liverpool shirt on a rack of 20 other fake shirts in a Bangkok market is not
Just one simple question then. If I saw a very unique keychain that bears our club logo in Bangkok and as long it is not done in official merchandise, its ok?
 

igor_piss_can

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May 2, 2019
Messages
280
Just one simple question then. If I saw a very unique keychain that bears our club logo in Bangkok and as long it is not done in official merchandise, its ok?
Personally I'd have no problem with it. In my view football clubs makes more than enough money and shouldn't need to corner every possible market with aggressive trademarking & the likes.

But the question is hypothetical. The facts are that a lot of the local traders sell solely LFC related products and have contributed to fan & terrace culture for decades whereas most foreign traders sell all kinds of football products & haven't had any influence on the shaping of the club.

And more so It will be the local traders who suffer more as it's much easier to clamp down on somebody selling Liverpool merchandise outside the stadium than it is to clamp down on a guy selling a Liverpool t shirt on a clothing rail halfway across the world
 

Foldy

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Oct 28, 2014
Messages
1,406
This is why I preferred football in the 80s. The discussion was all about the game. Not net spend. Or commercial contracts. Or hyping up some 16 year old.
Sometimes it feels like the old football chat has been replaced by some board room meeting focusing on profits and spreadsheets.

I think the owners are doing fine. They are quietly running their business well. Klopp has been backed with his transfers but the bills still have to be paid.

But more importantly, we are playing great football and are the European champions.
That doesn’t happen if you have crap owners.
You have to look at where we've come from since those dark days under H&G. When FSG came in they were straight with fans, they listened as well. They saved this club, that's the bottom line. They then invested smartly, realised it was more financially viable to restructure Anfield instead of saddling us with a huge debt that a new ground would have brought. People questioned their investment into transfers which I think they've now answered with the money they spent last season. In comparison to our rivals, Man Utd and City with their spending strategy (or should I say lack of it) and the way FSG have run us that should ease our fans fears that we have owners who are running a club within budgets. The way it should be. I hope FSG manage us for many more years to come and in regards to the #FSGOut brigade you'll never win, some people want their pound of flesh just for the sake of hating. That's a personality issue and probably needing some outlet to focus their anger on. We all do it at times in our lives.
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
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Personally I'd have no problem with it. In my view football clubs makes more than enough money and shouldn't need to corner every possible market with aggressive trademarking & the likes.

But the question is hypothetical. The facts are that a lot of the local traders sell solely LFC related products and have contributed to fan & terrace culture for decades whereas most foreign traders sell all kinds of football products & haven't had any influence on the shaping of the club.

And more so It will be the local traders who suffer more as it's much easier to clamp down on somebody selling Liverpool merchandise outside the stadium than it is to clamp down on a guy selling a Liverpool t shirt on a clothing rail halfway across the world
Peter Moore has specifically come out and said local traders and clubs using the name will not be targetted. Their initial approach was a bit hamfisted but they have clarified and are working with the likes to COLFC etc. To ensure this is covered.

SOS sadly whilst a hugely effective force to remove G & H seem to be looking for any way to go after FSG, their ultimate aim is a fan lead owenership structure which just isn't viable in the UK game and is a bit warping their current activities into a bit of a personal crusade.
 

igor_piss_can

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Messages
280
Peter Moore has specifically come out and said local traders and clubs using the name will not be targetted. Their initial approach was a bit hamfisted but they have clarified and are working with the likes to COLFC etc. To ensure this is covered.

SOS sadly whilst a hugely effective force to remove G & H seem to be looking for any way to go after FSG, their ultimate aim is a fan lead owenership structure which just isn't viable in the UK game and is a bit warping their current activities into a bit of a personal crusade.
That's the ultimate aim but I think everybody involved knows that's not going to happen. They've done much more good than harm to the club - Of course Hicks & Gillet, arranging the walkout for the £77 tickets, foodbank collections at games etc etc

They do as any good union should, support their members and do what they can to stop exploitation from those at the top