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The Owners

gasband

The Singaporean Liverpool Never Managed To Sign
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I think you may be getting counterfeit merchandise mixed up with unofficial merchandise. I've just came back from Holiday in Greece & there were plenty of counterfeit replica shirts on sale in the small stores & markets for a fraction of the price of what you'd pay normally. Many of these look like complete carbon copies of the official gear.

In terms of the unofficial merchandise, some of the stuff is brilliant and bears no resemblance to any official LFC product bar the name and maybe a Liverbird (although I think the club may have trademarked that now too). A lot of the official club merchandise I find to be pretty poor and unimaginative, unlike a lot of the unofficial stuff.

The local vendors have designed and sold a lot of this stuff for decades and are a big part of the club's fabric, as Liverpool has always been a club and a city which prides itself on fashion and it's unique sense of style. They are big part of the club, they're outside the ground every game and are a familar face, whereas somebody who is selling a fake Liverpool shirt on a rack of 20 other fake shirts in a Bangkok market is not
Just one simple question then. If I saw a very unique keychain that bears our club logo in Bangkok and as long it is not done in official merchandise, its ok?
 


igor_piss_can

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Just one simple question then. If I saw a very unique keychain that bears our club logo in Bangkok and as long it is not done in official merchandise, its ok?
Personally I'd have no problem with it. In my view football clubs makes more than enough money and shouldn't need to corner every possible market with aggressive trademarking & the likes.

But the question is hypothetical. The facts are that a lot of the local traders sell solely LFC related products and have contributed to fan & terrace culture for decades whereas most foreign traders sell all kinds of football products & haven't had any influence on the shaping of the club.

And more so It will be the local traders who suffer more as it's much easier to clamp down on somebody selling Liverpool merchandise outside the stadium than it is to clamp down on a guy selling a Liverpool t shirt on a clothing rail halfway across the world
 

Foldy

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This is why I preferred football in the 80s. The discussion was all about the game. Not net spend. Or commercial contracts. Or hyping up some 16 year old.
Sometimes it feels like the old football chat has been replaced by some board room meeting focusing on profits and spreadsheets.

I think the owners are doing fine. They are quietly running their business well. Klopp has been backed with his transfers but the bills still have to be paid.

But more importantly, we are playing great football and are the European champions.
That doesn’t happen if you have crap owners.
You have to look at where we've come from since those dark days under H&G. When FSG came in they were straight with fans, they listened as well. They saved this club, that's the bottom line. They then invested smartly, realised it was more financially viable to restructure Anfield instead of saddling us with a huge debt that a new ground would have brought. People questioned their investment into transfers which I think they've now answered with the money they spent last season. In comparison to our rivals, Man Utd and City with their spending strategy (or should I say lack of it) and the way FSG have run us that should ease our fans fears that we have owners who are running a club within budgets. The way it should be. I hope FSG manage us for many more years to come and in regards to the #FSGOut brigade you'll never win, some people want their pound of flesh just for the sake of hating. That's a personality issue and probably needing some outlet to focus their anger on. We all do it at times in our lives.
 

Iluvatar

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Personally I'd have no problem with it. In my view football clubs makes more than enough money and shouldn't need to corner every possible market with aggressive trademarking & the likes.

But the question is hypothetical. The facts are that a lot of the local traders sell solely LFC related products and have contributed to fan & terrace culture for decades whereas most foreign traders sell all kinds of football products & haven't had any influence on the shaping of the club.

And more so It will be the local traders who suffer more as it's much easier to clamp down on somebody selling Liverpool merchandise outside the stadium than it is to clamp down on a guy selling a Liverpool t shirt on a clothing rail halfway across the world
Peter Moore has specifically come out and said local traders and clubs using the name will not be targetted. Their initial approach was a bit hamfisted but they have clarified and are working with the likes to COLFC etc. To ensure this is covered.

SOS sadly whilst a hugely effective force to remove G & H seem to be looking for any way to go after FSG, their ultimate aim is a fan lead owenership structure which just isn't viable in the UK game and is a bit warping their current activities into a bit of a personal crusade.
 

igor_piss_can

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Peter Moore has specifically come out and said local traders and clubs using the name will not be targetted. Their initial approach was a bit hamfisted but they have clarified and are working with the likes to COLFC etc. To ensure this is covered.

SOS sadly whilst a hugely effective force to remove G & H seem to be looking for any way to go after FSG, their ultimate aim is a fan lead owenership structure which just isn't viable in the UK game and is a bit warping their current activities into a bit of a personal crusade.
That's the ultimate aim but I think everybody involved knows that's not going to happen. They've done much more good than harm to the club - Of course Hicks & Gillet, arranging the walkout for the £77 tickets, foodbank collections at games etc etc

They do as any good union should, support their members and do what they can to stop exploitation from those at the top
 



gasband

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Personally I'd have no problem with it. In my view football clubs makes more than enough money and shouldn't need to corner every possible market with aggressive trademarking & the likes.

But the question is hypothetical. The facts are that a lot of the local traders sell solely LFC related products and have contributed to fan & terrace culture for decades whereas most foreign traders sell all kinds of football products & haven't had any influence on the shaping of the club.

And more so It will be the local traders who suffer more as it's much easier to clamp down on somebody selling Liverpool merchandise outside the stadium than it is to clamp down on a guy selling a Liverpool t shirt on a clothing rail halfway across the world
Honestly, I am the kind of person who prefers to shop informally in such informal vendors, markets etc. But allowing such traders or vendors to use our club logo or any of the club's assets like the name of players etc should be an exception rather than your idea of "since they are making so much money, it should be ok". If so, how much is 'making so much money?', I suppose if I make something with Nike swish that something Nike does not sell now in their own stores officially and I sell them for profits, they should not sue me since they are already making so much money, you see what I am driving at? Then you might as well not respect IP or copyrights etc. But yet I am not advocating to ban these vendors. Like you said, these vendors add greatly to match day atmosphere. When I was there, I enjoy very much browsing the vendors just outside Anfield. What I think eventually that there should be a program that the club runs to cooperate with these vendor instead of "taking legal actions because we have the right to do so" even if we have the rights to. I think it will be a win-win, since we get access to interesting merchandise, the club will be seen as collaborative and not punitive and the vendors continue to earn a decent living. But that cannot be on the premise that the club makes so much money, they should turn a blind eye to indiscriminate use of the club's assets.
 

lfc.eddie

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I think it will be a win-win, since we get access to interesting merchandise, the club will be seen as collaborative and not punitive and the vendors continue to earn a decent living.
It is all well and good if the club themselves have a factory that produces those products on their own. They have sponsors that paid them millions, for them to work with these vendors, they will have to also work with the club merchandising sponsors like Nike, Levi's and so on. That will either elevate the price of those goods you bought from the vendors or the vendors won't earn enough to make it worth their while. The attraction isn't just being inventive and creative with their product, it was also sold at a fraction of a price.
 

Mascot88

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Skepticism, especially after what we went through, is healthy. But you’ve also got to have a certain amount of good faith, mindful that this is meant to be about fun.

When we were in the death throes of Hicks and Gillette, I thought about what kind of owner we needed. More than anything, I didn’t want this club’s future to be risked ever again - no sugar daddy, no eccentric billionaire, no leveraged buyout, no well intentioned fan without a clue.

What I wanted was an owner who would run us sensibly, responsibly, and with great care. And more than anything else, with a plan.

I’ve never criticised FSG for not spending enough, or not buying players. In many ways I’m not really arsed about that. My criticisms have come when they clearly haven’t had a plan - wanting a young manager, hiring Kenny, sacking Kenny, wanting a DOF, hiring Rodgers, scrapping the DOF, going back to the DOF idea, giving Rodgers his own transfer pot etc. They have been shambolic at times.

But that might have all been necessary to get to where we are now. Perhaps through trial and error, we have stumbled into a situation where there is a solid plan and a self of purpose. Whether we buy players or don’t. Whether we sell stars and buy kids, or whether we drop 300m at the top end of the market, I’m grand as long as it’s in accordance with the plan. As long as there is a clear reason behind it and I can understand why it’s happened.

So I’m fine with not buying anyone (bar the three we have brought in) because I can understand why the club have chosen to stay their hand. If they hadn’t bought anyone through sheer incompetence (like in 2012) I’d be raging. But I just can’t lose my rag at the club knowing exactly what they are doing and sticking to their guns.
 

lfc.8

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Terrible window. To not strengthen in the position we're in plus the gaps in the squad which remain not filled. The club has greatly improved the last few seasons but this is where you need to push those boundaries, show some ambition, look forward and seek improvement.

This is not a squad which is all conquering. It has weaknesses which includes the first eleven. It lacks quality in midfield, quality forwards behind the front three and again there's more need for suitable options in defence.

We have a great manager in Klopp but this is not the time for complacency. You need to maximise what we have. There's no lock on winning trophies irrespective of what we may or may not achieve this season. The club is in its strongest position to recruit combined with record revenues and to not lean on that certainly asks a few questions.

The view that we've done well in holding onto key players, almost seen as a victory is nonsense. No one is talking about spending for spending sake but the club while being diligent need to look at the wider picture.

As for FSG middle of the road and not much more. Plenty of mistakes made on their way. Regarding their purchase of the club and the topic of leverage buyouts. Did they not finance the deal through loans themselves, mind not secured against the club.

Interest rates are at secular lows but how they pay these debts off I can envisage a few ways. FSM taking a cut on revenue is not beyond the pale. Wide off the mark or not.
 



ubermick

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I completely understand the logic behind not buying for the sake of buying. We saw what it did with Carroll, and we saw what it did the window afterwards when good money went after bad with Downing etc. And I also completely understand that the options for us out there - we need proper quality, but quality willing to accept the club's ethos and know that they've a fight on their hands getting into the starting XI - are limited.

But.

The dropoff in quality from Mane/Bob/Mo to Shaq/Div/Brewster is fucking substantial. We're already seeing the panic that not having Alisson for 4-6 weeks (thank fuck its only that long!) can induce since the drop in quality from him is big. Something like that happens to one of the top three then we're relying on backup players who aren't top class for a period. Am sure they can step in and do a job here and there as needed (saw it with Div yesterday, and tbf again against Barca last season) but for a sustained period it fucking worries me. Because the margins now are so bloody fine, thanks to the oil-swallowing juggernaut of Citeh.

All that aside, I do believe its not down to the owners that we're in this position. The decision to stand pat this summer was Klopp and Edwards. They've earned faith and trust given their accomplishments, demonstrating time and time again they know what they're doing, and would rather wait to get their man than start going down the pecking order to "consolation prizes."
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I completely understand the logic behind not buying for the sake of buying. We saw what it did with Carroll, and we saw what it did the window afterwards when good money went after bad with Downing etc. And I also completely understand that the options for us out there - we need proper quality, but quality willing to accept the club's ethos and know that they've a fight on their hands getting into the starting XI - are limited.

But.

The dropoff in quality from Mane/Bob/Mo to Shaq/Div/Brewster is fucking substantial. We're already seeing the panic that not having Alisson for 4-6 weeks (thank fuck its only that long!) can induce since the drop in quality from him is big. Something like that happens to one of the top three then we're relying on backup players who aren't top class for a period. Am sure they can step in and do a job here and there as needed (saw it with Div yesterday, and tbf again against Barca last season) but for a sustained period it fucking worries me. Because the margins now are so bloody fine, thanks to the oil-swallowing juggernaut of Citeh.

All that aside, I do believe its not down to the owners that we're in this position. The decision to stand pat this summer was Klopp and Edwards. They've earned faith and trust given their accomplishments, demonstrating time and time again they know what they're doing, and would rather wait to get their man than start going down the pecking order to "consolation prizes."
I suspect - and this is purely based on guesswork - that we'll get the full understanding of this summer's spending (or lack thereof) next year. We may have left ourselves a bit short on depth in a couple of areas, but if it ends up meaning we're able to land someone like Sancho, or Havertz or even Mbappe, then I think most would agree it was the right decision. Time will have to tell on this one.
 

redfanman

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I suspect - and this is purely based on guesswork - that we'll get the full understanding of this summer's spending (or lack thereof) next year. We may have left ourselves a bit short on depth in a couple of areas, but if it ends up meaning we're able to land someone like Sancho, or Havertz or even Mbappe, then I think most would agree it was the right decision. Time will have to tell on this one.
We saw last summer that Poch had a choice at Spurs to improve contracts or sign new players, not both. That just shows the impact giving new contracts can have - especially when some of those deals would have seen big jumps in wages.

Last season we gave new contracts to 13 players. While about half of those went back on loan, those that didnt included Brewster, Salah, Mane, Robertson, Trent and Hendo. This summer we also offered new contracts to Matip (not yet signed?) and Origi (signed).
 

Kopstar

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This summer we also offered new contracts to Matip (not yet signed?) and Origi (signed).
And VvD (not yet signed?), and Gini and Milner (I think?).

Thinking long term and holding off spending until next year for preferred targets is fine providing we win something with our current players this season because we want to make sure we're strengthening and not replacing key players who don't want to leave this year but might want to next year if we haven't won anything.
 

lfc.8

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We saw last summer that Poch had a choice at Spurs to improve contracts or sign new players, not both. That just shows the impact giving new contracts can have - especially when some of those deals would have seen big jumps in wages.

Last season we gave new contracts to 13 players. While about half of those went back on loan, those that didnt included Brewster, Salah, Mane, Robertson, Trent and Hendo. This summer we also offered new contracts to Matip (not yet signed?) and Origi (signed).
Those wages won't disappear. This season, the next or thereafter. It's a bit of a red flag. The club on a net spend basis also hasn't really spent that much either to be fair.
 



MarcusBerglund

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We saw last summer that Poch had a choice at Spurs to improve contracts or sign new players, not both. That just shows the impact giving new contracts can have - especially when some of those deals would have seen big jumps in wages.

Last season we gave new contracts to 13 players. While about half of those went back on loan, those that didnt included Brewster, Salah, Mane, Robertson, Trent and Hendo. This summer we also offered new contracts to Matip (not yet signed?) and Origi (signed).
The club won 200 mln. pounds from the last 2 seasons in the CL only from prize money /tickets, merchandise not calculated/. And from January of 2019 LFC pocketed around 50 mln. pounds from sales and loans. On top of that several players with big contracts left the club - Sturridge /120 000 pounds per week/, Moreno /50 000 pounds per week/, Mignolet /60 000 pounds per week/, Ings /60 000 pounds per week/.

You obviously forgot that spurs had a very expensive stadium to build, but still managed to keep their best players and give them solid new contracts. We are in a perfect financial health, these comparisons with Tottenham are really out of place.

In my opinion standing still whis transfer window in our situation was a mistake. And the proof for lack of cover of our full backs for example will be seen not against Norwich, not this month or next month, but from December till March.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I suspect - and this is purely based on guesswork - that we'll get the full understanding of this summer's spending (or lack thereof) next year. We may have left ourselves a bit short on depth in a couple of areas, but if it ends up meaning we're able to land someone like Sancho, or Havertz or even Mbappe, then I think most would agree it was the right decision. Time will have to tell on this one.
My belief too. My worry however is that who ever we are waiting for then gives us the brush off if we aren't as attractive next summer as this one. With a certain level of "what the fuck is going on there" at Barca, Real and PSG with Juve and Bayern in one team leagues which dont have quite the same prestige I legitimately think we were sitting about as attractive a destination as anywhere this summer. A so-so or bad season or even if Real and/or Barca simply get their shit together a bit more and our level of attractiveness may have dropped down a peg or two. We've got to literally go without whatever target/targets we want to use to kick the squad onto the next stage for a year, matching the kind of level of promise/success as this year, hope for some circumstances to continue/get worse in other places and that the player/players in question want to move/can be bought next year when they seemingly can't or wont move this year. I know none of that probably makes sense. We just don't make things easy on ourselves.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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My belief too. My worry however is that who ever we are waiting for then gives us the brush off if we aren't as attractive next summer as this one. With a certain level of "what the fuck is going on there" at Barca, Real and PSG with Juve and Bayern in one team leagues which dont have quite the same prestige I legitimately think we were sitting about as attractive a destination as anywhere this summer. A so-so or bad season or even if Real and/or Barca simply get their shit together a bit more and our level of attractiveness may have dropped down a peg or two. We've got to literally go without whatever target/targets we want to use to kick the squad onto the next stage for a year, matching the kind of level of promise/success as this year, hope for some circumstances to continue/get worse in other places and that the player/players in question want to move/can be bought next year when they seemingly can't or wont move this year. I know none of that probably makes sense. We just don't make things easy on ourselves.
We'll have to see. My gut says it would have to be an extremely poor season to wipe the memory of winning the European Cup from people's minds. For example you might think a 3rd place finish and a QF exit in the CL would be poor by last season's standards - and from a fan's perspective it would be disappointing obviously - but for a player being persuaded either to remain at or join the club, being able to say 'look, we won the CL 12 months ago, we're in it again next year managed by the guy who won it and we're looking to invest big again now' would still hold quite a bit of sway.

Hopefully we do better than that, though. I'd be very surprised if we did worse. We're talking about depth, after all, not obvious gaps in our first-choice XI.
 

redfanman

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The club won 200 mln. pounds from the last 2 seasons in the CL only from prize money /tickets, merchandise not calculated/. And from January of 2019 LFC pocketed around 50 mln. pounds from sales and loans. On top of that several players with big contracts left the club - Sturridge /120 000 pounds per week/, Moreno /50 000 pounds per week/, Mignolet /60 000 pounds per week/, Ings /60 000 pounds per week/.

You obviously forgot that spurs had a very expensive stadium to build, but still managed to keep their best players and give them solid new contracts. We are in a perfect financial health, these comparisons with Tottenham are really out of place.
I havent forgotten Spur's stadium - they havent paid for it yet, and i suspect they have not felt the impact of repayments yet. The comparison with Spurs is a fair one. Poch said at the time he had a choice - and that he chose to use the available funds on existing players.

I'm not saying that the new contracts have used up all the funds available to Klopp, only that it is one reason that will have had a bearing on our spending plans this summer. We know the club were trying to sign new players, so there is money there, we just dont know how much - and with the market being expensive, the club is obviously quite sensitive to price moves for players this year when players of fair quality are moving for top quality prices.

Yes, the club saw an increase in revenues for the CL run etc - but it also paid out increased bonuses. New contracts not only eat up current funds it increases the wage bill to - and that is something we know the club management are quite sensitive about.

Studge wasnt on 120k a week in his last season. We havent been paying Ings salary since he went to Southampton. As fans we probably over estimate how much money there is in the club to be spent on players.
 

redfanman

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My belief too. My worry however is that who ever we are waiting for then gives us the brush off if we aren't as attractive next summer as this one. With a certain level of "what the fuck is going on there" at Barca, Real and PSG with Juve and Bayern in one team leagues which dont have quite the same prestige I legitimately think we were sitting about as attractive a destination as anywhere this summer. A so-so or bad season or even if Real and/or Barca simply get their shit together a bit more and our level of attractiveness may have dropped down a peg or two. We've got to literally go without whatever target/targets we want to use to kick the squad onto the next stage for a year, matching the kind of level of promise/success as this year, hope for some circumstances to continue/get worse in other places and that the player/players in question want to move/can be bought next year when they seemingly can't or wont move this year. I know none of that probably makes sense. We just don't make things easy on ourselves.
I'm with @Zinedine Biscan on this, i cant see how things would deteriorate so much that players wouldnt be an attractive proposition for most players we would want to sign. We pay well, we have a great manager and a lot of top players here and our record over the last 3 years has been pretty good.

We also have several of the old guard expected to leave next summer - and some, like Origi may see their futures lie elsewhere for more playing time - leaving us plenty of opportunity to impress upon targets how much playing time they would have.
 



redfanman

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Those wages won't disappear. This season, the next or thereafter. It's a bit of a red flag. The club on a net spend basis also hasn't really spent that much either to be fair.
We pay roughly the same ratio on wages as most clubs dont we? There does seem to be an upper limit as to how much we would pay, so increasing contracts will impact on that. Likewise, on the netspend front, that was pretty much what the owners promised - that the club would live within its means.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We'll have to see. My gut says it would have to be an extremely poor season to wipe the memory of winning the European Cup from people's minds. For example you might think a 3rd place finish and a QF exit in the CL would be poor by last season's standards - and from a fan's perspective it would be disappointing obviously - but for a player being persuaded either to remain at or join the club, being able to say 'look, we won the CL 12 months ago, we're in it again next year managed by the guy who won it and we're looking to invest big again now' would still hold quite a bit of sway.

Hopefully we do better than that, though. I'd be very surprised if we did worse. We're talking about depth, after all, not obvious gaps in our first-choice XI.
I think that is incredibly optimistic and shows club bias from a fan. By winning the CL and getting so many points we said to everyone that we were ready to step up and be a force again. That getting to the final the year before wasnt just some kind of good cup run and was showing we were an evolving force. This summer a big, top level player looks at that and thinks "I join that and I can help them kick on and be like Barca when Messi burst onto the scene, help them become one of those 2 or 3 top echelon sides"! If we dont maintain that momentum or kick on then from the outside looking in a lot may think "well they've stalled" or even worse "oh well another false dawn, who is the new flavour of the month"! There are already many out there starting to think it's only a matter of time before Mane is off with how long he has been with us. And for those not close/involved with the club those thoughts will start spreading to the likes of Salah and Firmino and (eventually) VvD and Alisson. Unless we establish ourselves as one of the top destinations. I'd say look at Atletico Madrid when they had a real good period a couple of years ago (or Dortmund under Klopp). Many will be thinking we are just going to go the same way and fall just short of becoming one of the top dogs unless we do it year in year out.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I think that is incredibly optimistic and shows club bias from a fan. By winning the CL and getting so many points we said to everyone that we were ready to step up and be a force again. That getting to the final the year before wasnt just some kind of good cup run and was showing we were an evolving force. This summer a big, top level player looks at that and thinks "I join that and I can help them kick on and be like Barca when Messi burst onto the scene, help them become one of those 2 or 3 top echelon sides"! If we dont maintain that momentum or kick on then from the outside looking in a lot may think "well they've stalled" or even worse "oh well another false dawn, who is the new flavour of the month"! There are already many out there starting to think it's only a matter of time before Mane is off with how long he has been with us. And for those not close/involved with the club those thoughts will start spreading to the likes of Salah and Firmino and (eventually) VvD and Alisson. Unless we establish ourselves as one of the top destinations. I'd say look at Atletico Madrid when they had a real good period a couple of years ago (or Dortmund under Klopp). Many will be thinking we are just going to go the same way and fall just short of becoming one of the top dogs unless we do it year in year out.
The team everybody has pegged as the third best in the league is currently struggling at home to a newly promoted side. I can't see there's any reason at all to be panicking one game into the season.

Even that aside I feel like you're doing the personality and mentality of the team Klopp has built a massive disservice by suggesting we'll implode at the first suggestion of decline. Someone like Spurs has managed to keep all their best players under Poch long after everyone predicted they'd bail, and they've won fuck all.
 

lfc.eddie

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I'd say look at Atletico Madrid when they had a real good period a couple of years ago (or Dortmund under Klopp). Many will be thinking we are just going to go the same way and fall just short of becoming one of the top dogs unless we do it year in year out.
Have these teams not qualify for Champs League every season despite having to compete with their local league giants that has a bank account dwarfing theirs? Did Klopp go out and splurged after winning Bundesliga for Dortmund? I think you're over thinking this "players might think like a bunch of twitter gits".

You have to come to terms with us having to work with a budget, and not believing in the hype of "we now have bottomless pit to spend". If you come to terms with that, you won't be too stressed about the transfer activity.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The team everybody has pegged as the third best in the league is currently struggling at home to a newly promoted side. I can't see there's any reason at all to be panicking one game into the season.

Even that aside I feel like you're doing the personality and mentality of the team Klopp has built a massive disservice by suggesting we'll implode at the first suggestion of decline. Someone like Spurs has managed to keep all their best players under Poch long after everyone predicted they'd bail, and they've won fuck all.
Not talking about internally. I'm talking about the perception outside the club when it comes to attracting the true top line targets like you mentioned we might be waiting to land next season (which I agree with). I'm just worried that we wont be as attractive a destination then as we were this summer. A lot has to go right for us including stuff outside our control in regards to how appealing the Real and Barca set ups are and what their recruitment priorities will be.
 



lfc.eddie

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Not talking about internally. I'm talking about the perception outside the club when it comes to attracting the true top line targets like you mentioned we might be waiting to land next season (which I agree with). I'm just worried that we wont be as attractive a destination then as we were this summer. A lot has to go right for us including stuff outside our control in regards to how appealing the Real and Barca set ups are and what their recruitment priorities will be.
Real been shit for most parts of last season, still could attract players to take up their offer pretty easily. One season down wouldn't change much from the perception of a player we targeted. It all comes down to how much do you pay for them to come over, and who is managing/coaching the players.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Not talking about internally. I'm talking about the perception outside the club when it comes to attracting the true top line targets like you mentioned we might be waiting to land next season (which I agree with). I'm just worried that we wont be as attractive a destination then as we were this summer. A lot has to go right for us including stuff outside our control in regards to how appealing the Real and Barca set ups are and what their recruitment priorities will be.
When Rafa brought in one of the world's most exciting young strikers in Torres, was it mostly because we just lost a CL final or because we'd won the trophy two years previously? Maybe a bit of both but mostly the latter I suspect. Come next summer we'll be worst-case selling the prospect of joining a club that's been in the CL final in two of the past three years, winning one. That stuff puts credit in the bank for longer than you're thinking it does.

Like I said, it would have to be a catastrophic season for us to be anything other than one of the most attractive clubs to join next summer, in terms of the manager at the helm, the style we play, the character of the squad, prospect of winning silverware and paying players what they're worth, and I don't believe it will be.
 
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MarcusBerglund

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I havent forgotten Spur's stadium - they havent paid for it yet, and i suspect they have not felt the impact of repayments yet. The comparison with Spurs is a fair one. Poch said at the time he had a choice - and that he chose to use the available funds on existing players.

I'm not saying that the new contracts have used up all the funds available to Klopp, only that it is one reason that will have had a bearing on our spending plans this summer. We know the club were trying to sign new players, so there is money there, we just dont know how much - and with the market being expensive, the club is obviously quite sensitive to price moves for players this year when players of fair quality are moving for top quality prices.

Yes, the club saw an increase in revenues for the CL run etc - but it also paid out increased bonuses. New contracts not only eat up current funds it increases the wage bill to - and that is something we know the club management are quite sensitive about.

Studge wasnt on 120k a week in his last season. We havent been paying Ings salary since he went to Southampton. As fans we probably over estimate how much money there is in the club to be spent on players.

Well according to TIA Sturridge's wages were exactly 120 000 pounds per week.

Levy is not a fool, it does not work like that - spending huge and then thinking ''wow, we have huge loan to pay!''. Actually Levy is a very, very smart businessman and he has a clear idea what he is doing.

And I don't know how we are in a smilar position with Spurs, they have to pay 1 billion pounds for their new stadium, so according to you last season Poch had a choice and he decided to keep their best players.

We have to pay considerably smaller bills and for the last 3 seasons Liverpool Football Club is a very profitable from a financial point of view. And I don't remember Klopp saying he had a choice - new contracts to his players or not possible to add new quality players.

So, according to your 2 posts, the club won 200 mln. pounds from the CL, but the problem was that they gave new contracts to several players, paid increased bonuses and that is why we can't spend big? New contracts and bonuses ate all our earnings :))
 

Bonus

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we have just won number 6,
we pushed the oil sponsored City led by Guardiola to the very end last season
we have achieved a record number of points for a season,
losing only 1 game along the way in the EPL,,
We havent lost any our top players, (as per usual after a great season)
there are plans for stadium extension
and as far as I know we are a well run club, with no financial issues, and on a very sound footing,

also IMO we are in a far better position than all our rivals,
who have shit managers, shit signing, FFP problems, wage problems, loan repayments, stadium repayments,
and cant pay top wages....

so maybe its time to concentrate on the positives rather than the negatives,
and be grateful for the people who are running OUR club.

rather than concentrating on the negatives...
 

Nikola

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I completely understand the logic behind not buying for the sake of buying. We saw what it did with Carroll, and we saw what it did the window afterwards when good money went after bad with Downing etc. And I also completely understand that the options for us out there - we need proper quality, but quality willing to accept the club's ethos and know that they've a fight on their hands getting into the starting XI - are limited.

But.

The dropoff in quality from Mane/Bob/Mo to Shaq/Div/Brewster is fucking substantial. We're already seeing the panic that not having Alisson for 4-6 weeks (thank fuck its only that long!) can induce since the drop in quality from him is big. Something like that happens to one of the top three then we're relying on backup players who aren't top class for a period. Am sure they can step in and do a job here and there as needed (saw it with Div yesterday, and tbf again against Barca last season) but for a sustained period it fucking worries me. Because the margins now are so bloody fine, thanks to the oil-swallowing juggernaut of Citeh.

All that aside, I do believe its not down to the owners that we're in this position. The decision to stand pat this summer was Klopp and Edwards. They've earned faith and trust given their accomplishments, demonstrating time and time again they know what they're doing, and would rather wait to get their man than start going down the pecking order to "consolation prizes."
A while back, I'd be absolutely bloody livid at such window, even if I'm aware that it's something of a norm for Klopp and Edwards to finish the summer in the black (net spend is down to some 80-85 million pounds, if I'm not mistaken, for the time Klopp's been at Liverpool). It wasn't what I expected, I thought getting three players to replace Lovren, Moreno and nobody as Mane's backup wouldn't be that difficult.

Strangely, I'm calm about this, perhaps because not spending anything should have a two-fold positive effect: no added pressure on the squad and maybe some improved performances as a result of Klopp's show of faith. Clutching at straws perhaps but Liverpool (and the rest of the league, in case they didn't get the memo) are up against a state-owned club and it would take a lot more than continued spending on superstars to bring them down. They've been planning for Guardiola's arrival for years and years, after all, while Klopp had Škrtel and Benteke when he arrived.

As others have said, I think we'll probably see what FSG (and Klopp and Edwards) have in store for Liverpool in perhaps a year or two. New training ground and another stadium expansion are a must, in my opinion, and we'll see what state the squad and club staff are in in a year's or two's time. I guess that the stronger the finish at the end of the season, the stronger the negotiation basis for FSG regarding important sponsorship deals. I think the stadium expansion, new kit manufacturer and new kit sponsor are more than just a hefty financial incentive: if they get these right, we'll be up there with the giants again and maybe we'll be there to stay.