The Owners

Red over the water

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Most likely age - 65, and a desire to return to the States to be nearer to family, as they are all there after 30 years in America, are the key factors with Peter Moores leaving. One can’t help speculate, and the recent furlough thing, plus the earlier ticketing issue, may have convinced the owners that having. Liverpool man in Moore’s at the helm, even though a good businessman with a good track record, did not keep the whole family together, and there were issues with fans that a local fella should have anticipated and protected the club from.

Idle speculation on my part though. Good luck to him, I thought he did a great job here.

Hogan next? He’s been around for a while, so it’s not abrupt. Hopefully he does well.
 

CymruRed

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I thought i'd read that if coronavirus hadn't happened,we'd probably have taken over from United in the earnings list,as it is we've just fallen behind them by £64mill this year,thats telling me our comercial revenues are doing pretty well,considering United are/were a financial monster after wining the Prem 13 times and dominating england to get to that point,since we last won the title over 30 years ago,yet it's taken FSG 10 years,1 title and a CL to claw it back.I think thats pretty amazing tbh.
 

Kopstar

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I thought i'd read that if coronavirus hadn't happened,we'd probably have taken over from United in the earnings list,as it is we've just fallen behind them by £64mill this year,thats telling me our comercial revenues are doing pretty well,considering United are/were a financial monster after wining the Prem 13 times and dominating england to get to that point,since we last won the title over 30 years ago,yet it's taken FSG 10 years,1 title and a CL to claw it back.I think thats pretty amazing tbh.
Not United, I think it's City we've been catching in total revenues.
 

CymruRed

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Not United, I think it's City we've been catching in total revenues.
I can't find the article,i'm sure i read it in the Echo a few weeks back,which said that LFC could catch United up in the next financial year,in the last set of financials before this season,United made £627mill but were set to lose money due to the lack of CL this past season,we had made £533mill but with now wining 3 trophies,bigger attendances,commercial deals,kit sales and the new Nike kit deal,the article stated that we were in touching distance of them or even taking over them in the biggest earners list.
 

Kopstar

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I can't find the article,i'm sure i read it in the Echo a few weeks back,which said that LFC could catch United up in the next financial year,in the last set of financials before this season,United made £627mill but were set to lose money due to the lack of CL this past season,we had made £533mill but with now wining 3 trophies,bigger attendances,commercial deals,kit sales and the new Nike kit deal,the article stated that we were in touching distance of them or even taking over them in the biggest earners list.
I think I read something similar but I think it was potentially next year's accounts (albeit for this season) and it was maybe dependent on United not making the Champions League. Can't remember the exact details though.
 

Rambler

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So we didn't go bust then after being shamed into withdrawing the application for government furlough payments :D
 
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CymruRed

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I think I read something similar but I think it was potentially next year's accounts (albeit for this season) and it was maybe dependent on United not making the Champions League. Can't remember the exact details though.
Oh right,yeah i think they lose money from the lack of CL this year,but in next years accounts,if they had not made CL again,Adidas would taken £25-30mill off them for not getting in 2 years on the trot,which would have been a pretty big chunk of change,thats what lead me to another article saying we could now be around £60mill behind Uniteds finances,cos they've made CL and the coronavirus losses.

I still think we've done pretty well to claw it back to those margins,when you think of how dominant they've been on and off the pitch,for decades.
 

petergriffin2020

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I still think we've done pretty well to claw it back to those margins,when you think of how dominant they've been on and off the pitch,for decades.
My thoughts exactly! Considering they were the original commercial behemoths in football and really the biggest brand in football for a long while — as recently as 2018 — while we were (comparatively) in the doldrums really until halfway through FSG's tenure, it is remarkable we've been able to make up so much ground in the last few years. Check out the bottom of this article to see a pretty cool (live) visualization of it.

Edit: I remember when I started supporting the club the website was liverpoolfc.tv and I remember going "wow, .tv, someone didn't read up on Internet best practices!" .co.uk would have been fine as well but .tv was just tacky. Thankfully the website changed to .com.
 
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gasband

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I think @Kopstar 's reservations stem from a concern that commercially we haven't really improved upon our peers. We've increased in line with them, yet are way behind them
But surely the effort to move from 5 to 8 is greater than 7 to 8. I think in terms of the amount of jump we had is more than alot of clubs. And considering that we only had lifted Championships in the last 2 years compared to our rivals, who is to say our trajectory will not take us way above them if we continue this success.

I would love continuity but he has done a great job, for whatever reasons are moving on, the owners appointed from within to give us the best chance of continual success.

We can only see and hope. But we always get through as a team, even in the management ranks.
 

petergriffin2020

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Ye what the fuck was that .tv all about.

made us sound like a tv channel
The irony is that I am pretty sure it was well before LFC TV was a thing! I could seriously imagine someone making the website and thinking ‘ah fuck it, LiverpoolFC.tv rhymes, let’s do that.’
 

petergriffin2020

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In Moores' time we've had two massive PR own goals backtracking on decisions about season tickets and furloughing employees. I wonder whether this is part of the decision.
Obviously the furlough was on him, but, to be fair, I was pretty sure that the major season ticket controversy was when Ayre was around (2-2 vs. Sunderland in Feb ’16 – maybe you were referring to something different?) Don’t disagree that the fallouts from both have produced backtracking to the desired outcomes.
 

Sweeting

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Regarding the improvements (or lack thereof) on the commercial side, I see that Forbes have released their list of most valuable sports teams in the world. The list is dominated by American teams.

1. Dallas Cowboys
2. New York Yankees
3. New York Knicks
4. LA Lakers
5. Golden State Warriors

What confuses me is genuinely how can these sides be "worth" more than Real Madrid and Barcelona, or Man Utd? Football clubs have strong, passionate supporter bases right across the world, it's the most watched and most participated in sport. Everyone in the world knows who Messi and Ronaldo are, probably everyone knows who Neymar and Ibrahimovic are too.

Outside of America, even inside of America, can anyone name a single NY Knicks player? I like basketball and I haven't a clue. I like baseball and I don't know who plays for the Yankees. Sure the Yankees sell their logo worldwide and people buy it not knowing it's the Yankees logo (Americans may be surprised to know that vast majority of people just think it's a generic New York logo, no idea it's a team thing) so I guess they have a massive marketing department but the Knicks? I've never seen anyone wearing anything Knicks related, most people would probably struggle to even identify which sport they play.

I guess I'm confused how these valuations work. Are Forbes a little biased towards US clubs? If Forbes was a Spanish based company would Real Madrid be top? Do Americans overrate the popularity of their sports outside of the US? Someone explain it to me!
 

SF Red

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Regarding the improvements (or lack thereof) on the commercial side, I see that Forbes have released their list of most valuable sports teams in the world. The list is dominated by American teams.

1. Dallas Cowboys
2. New York Yankees
3. New York Knicks
4. LA Lakers
5. Golden State Warriors

What confuses me is genuinely how can these sides be "worth" more than Real Madrid and Barcelona, or Man Utd? Football clubs have strong, passionate supporter bases right across the world, it's the most watched and most participated in sport. Everyone in the world knows who Messi and Ronaldo are, probably everyone knows who Neymar and Ibrahimovic are too.

Outside of America, even inside of America, can anyone name a single NY Knicks player? I like basketball and I haven't a clue. I like baseball and I don't know who plays for the Yankees. Sure the Yankees sell their logo worldwide and people buy it not knowing it's the Yankees logo (Americans may be surprised to know that vast majority of people just think it's a generic New York logo, no idea it's a team thing) so I guess they have a massive marketing department but the Knicks? I've never seen anyone wearing anything Knicks related, most people would probably struggle to even identify which sport they play.

I guess I'm confused how these valuations work. Are Forbes a little biased towards US clubs? If Forbes was a Spanish based company would Real Madrid be top? Do Americans overrate the popularity of their sports outside of the US? Someone explain it to me!
American sports leagues have some sort of wage limitations (salary caps, player’s salary limits, luxury tax, etc) which almost guarantee team profitability. I think that makes a big difference. They are also cartels making all major decisions together.
 

Limiescouse

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Should we care about this? I feel like none of us have any idea how good these guys are at their jobs. It's not like evaluating players or managers.

Moore has done an interview for LFCtv saying he felt it is the right time to leave. Maybe he agreed to do it and leave on good terms but equally likely he just didn't want to do such a high profile job anymore.
That's entirely my position. I have a natural dread in that we are liverpool and have spent 30 years undercutting our own efforts to return to the pinnacle of the game, and so any change right now is going to be met with anxiety because we've clearly hit on a winning formula and I want to continue riding that out. However, FSG deserve to not be second guessed at this point. And even if they didnt have that credit in the bank, as you say, this is the sort of role that is nigh on impossible to judge how effectively the role was being performed (with exceptions for when its clearly being done in a shit way).

I liked that we had such a well respected figure who was a genuine fan and local. Liverpool needs to be global to compete, but part of what makes it special is the power of the locals, and so that sort connection between the city and the board room was really valuable, even if only in perception. But Im confident FSG will steer us on to the next phase as well as could be done.
 
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Limiescouse

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I guess I'm confused how these valuations work. Are Forbes a little biased towards US clubs? If Forbes was a Spanish based company would Real Madrid be top? Do Americans overrate the popularity of their sports outside of the US? Someone explain it to me!
Someone might correct me, but I think part of it is that it is so difficult to judge valuation because they are assets that really don't trade very often so its very difficult to assess what the profit to value ratio really is, and so a lot of this is theoretical. However, in the NBA about 5 years ago the LA Clippers, a second tier NBA team, was forced onto the market after their owner was caught in a big racism scandal resulting in the league withdrawing his ownership licence. It created a big rush to buy, kind of how housing prices sky rocket in a sellers market with each house getting multiple offers immediately. It ended up selling for way more than was expected, about $2B, and I think analysts then readjusted the estimated value of all the other clubs in the league, and even clubs in other american leagues relative to how their revenue and profits compared to those of the Clippers. Basically, they used to think the Lakers were only worth X, but now as the clippers went for 1.5 times more than expected, they upped the assumed valuation of the Lakers by 1.5 as well.

It has been a long time since a big European football club has changed hands (under non-distressed conditions). Has there been one since the Glazers got Utd? What was that, 15 years ago? So valuations for football havent had the chance to recalibrate
 
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redbj

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What bigger role is there? The only way for his role to be bigger would be to take the same role but at a club with a less well regarded and well covered manager so that he gets more of the credit (e.g. Monchi with whatever club he goes to). With everything we've heard about Edwards, he doesnt seem in it for that sort of praise.
A more advanced laptop?
 

Lowton_Red

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So we didn't go bust then after being shamed into withdrawing the application for government furlough payments :D
No doubt restarting football on 17 June, rather than cancelling the season, was a significant factor in alleviating our cash flow problems. That, and the Premier League agreeing to make partial advance payments of merit payments and facility fees back in April, played no small part in relieving financial pressures.

Our cash flow will have been further helped by receiving part of our funding for next season in the summer months.

Without these measures, who can say what might have happened.

However, as @Kopstar has already pointed out, we [the general public] won't know the full extent of the damage until the club's accounts are made available in March next year.
 

redfanman

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But surely the effort to move from 5 to 8 is greater than 7 to 8. I think in terms of the amount of jump we had is more than alot of clubs. And considering that we only had lifted Championships in the last 2 years compared to our rivals, who is to say our trajectory will not take us way above them if we continue this success.

I would love continuity but he has done a great job, for whatever reasons are moving on, the owners appointed from within to give us the best chance of continual success.

We can only see and hope. But we always get through as a team, even in the management ranks.
Sure, but our financial improvement has been driven largely by Tv revenues and player sales/value purchases.

Commercial revenues have only kept in line with other clubs despite being a strong brand now getting more exposure at a time when other clubs had fallen out of CL.
 

rupzzz

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Sure, but our financial improvement has been driven largely by Tv revenues and player sales/value purchases.

Commercial revenues have only kept in line with other clubs despite being a strong brand now getting more exposure at a time when other clubs had fallen out of CL.
Although we haven't caught up with other clubs ahead of us in commercial revenues, aren't these changes likely to be gradual? Improvements on the pitch have resulted in trophies, and now off the pitch new deals will be struck that are more profitable, such as the Nike deal?

Or is the expectation that the club should be on a steeper upward trajectory? Could be be that the club are happy to rely on the increased TV revenues as one of the main income streams, and have put less effort in commercially? I only ask as I'm not clear on how quickly commercial revenues could/should be increasing. Are these examples of other clubs that are catching us?

Success on the pitch is what we as fans primarily look for, and we are getting that, so I'm content with the way in which FSG are running the club. Hard not to be displeased when a 2 season run gets a PL, CL, and CWC.