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The Owners

Mascot88

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Is Souness the exception that proves the rule? Tony Evans getting in a preemptive assault on FSG.
Thought that at the time. He still hasn’t forgiven them for sacking Kenny. Even with a League Title and a European Cup on the sideboard
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Is Souness the exception that proves the rule? Tony Evans getting in a preemptive assault on FSG.

Fairly confident that the club and Klopp are fully aware we can't stand still.
The point was that Souness didn't do that. Focused on getting too many out the door too quickly and then scrambled around bringing a whole new side in enmasse that wasn't a patch on what he'd already forced out the door. All whilst things were slipping on the pitch. That was my read on the documentaries take on the situation.
 

Walshy07

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Souness mistake was bombing out players who were still needed for a season at least.
He got rid of experience and was only left with Barnes and Rush who were surrounded by youngsters.
I honestly think that Macca, Fowler, Redknapp, Jones etc were as good as Neville, Beckham, butt and Scholes but united players had more focus....plus a decent Keeper and centre halves behind them while ours had the awful James and Ruddock.

my issues with FSG is (said it many times) is that while they have done lots of good for us they have never bought big without selling big. Klopp is working miracles. it’s unheard of to win a title after not strengthening but every squad needs a slight refresh.

come the end of the window we could have Thiago and Sarr and that would be decent business but we are Prem League champions who haven’t been great since we lost to Watford In March so a little shake up is needed.
 

Lowton_Red

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In short, we're locking the back door: keeping what works and, 'speculating' , with what money is spare to invest in choices, made by a well run and supported (by the manager and FSG) recruitment team ?

Sounds like a path to 30 years of hurt.....
Sorry, but I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion from my post. Were you intending to reply to someone else?
 

Noo Noo

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Entire thread a really fascinating read. Thanks for posting.

Many nuggets in there but this I found particularly interesting:


For me I think the real acid test of this would be a comparison to other clubs. At least then you can get a true picture of how healthy LFC is as a club and perhaps an indication of the clubs policy on buying players this window.

I completely agree that in a market where there are several unknowns that can impact revenue dramatically strengthening a very very good first 11 is extremely difficult.
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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Players who are first team ready for this team are few and far between. They also tend to be expensive and unlikely to actually improve this team by any significant amount.

Which players who have moved clubs in the last 18 months would have improved our first XI? Whose spot do they take?
Under Kenny and Brendan we got into the bad habit of conceding 50 goals a season, in Jurgen’s first season, (in his first 1.5 seasons actually because we were well on the way to conceding 50 goals again) we did the same. Jurgen, as utterly brilliant as he is, got no more out of the likes of Skrtel, Sakho, Mingolet et al than Brendan did. That’s just a fact.
Things only changed when we went out and broke the world transfer record on a Rolls Royce of a CB, the moment Virgil Van Dirk walked through the doors of this club on the 27th December 2017 some mysterious force dramatically applied the brakes to our Goals Against column. When we broke the world transfer record for a goal keeper a few months later we went up another level again.
All our recent success, our 6th European Cup, our first League title in 30 years, our World Club Championship win etc etc has been built on the back of our expensively assembled defence. The difference between us and City was that we had a great defence and they didn’t. Over the last 2 seasons we haven’t ripped the premier league to absolute shreds like Brendan’s 13/14 side, the last 2 seasons has been largely about digging out results and showing incredible mental toughness, we could dig out results because we no longer threw games away with Keystone Cops defending/goal keeping.
Our net spend might be low but the fortunes of this club changed the moment we spent a fortune on 2 top quality players.
Yes the transfer committee have worked miracles recently getting the likes of Sadio, Mo, Robbo etc etc in relatively cheaply but let’s not kid ourselves, if you want to compete for the biggest prizes in the biggest sport on the face of the planet you are going to have to spend big on quality players.
No VVD, No Alisson = No League title, No European Cup.........it’s as simple as that, if we don’t break the world transfer record twice we don’t win what we have won over the last 2 years.
 

Noo Noo

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Souness mistake was bombing out players who were still needed for a season at least.
He got rid of experience and was only left with Barnes and Rush who were surrounded by youngsters.
I honestly think that Macca, Fowler, Redknapp, Jones etc were as good as Neville, Beckham, butt and Scholes but united players had more focus....plus a decent Keeper and centre halves behind them while ours had the awful James and Ruddock.

my issues with FSG is (said it many times) is that while they have done lots of good for us they have never bought big without selling big. Klopp is working miracles. it’s unheard of to win a title after not strengthening but every squad needs a slight refresh.

come the end of the window we could have Thiago and Sarr and that would be decent business but we are Prem League champions who haven’t been great since we lost to Watford In March so a little shake up is needed.
Actually (sorry for going slightly off topic here) one of the biggest problems that Souness actually had was having to revamp the way the club did things. The Boot Room policy while it had massive advantages did not adapt with changes taking place in the game. Players were becoming more professional, tactics more important and the old way of beers in the changing room and "just go out and play" attitude was no longer cutting it. Souness learned a lot of this from his time on the continent and was trying to bring it into the LFC dressing room but when you had a squad filled with the old guard it was obviously met with some resistance. In some ways it was too much too soon. In addition, Souness also regrettably took on the role sorting contracts. He was then left with trying to address players concerns on why certain people were paid more than others etc.

So while I agree some of the changes he made were wrong on a player ability level I also have some sympathy with what he was trying to do and what was basically on his plate. For me it was another example of the club being a bit too inflexible. An inflexibility that eventually caught up with it and we suffered for it.

to get us back on topic I think Thiago would be a massive boost. Personally, I find myself wanting flexibility these days in all sorts of things and his signature would certainly provide that. So I am all for it. Sarr, I suppose would be a bonus I think but I think that only works (playing perspective) if others leave. Thiago just comes in as a straight addition to the squad in my book.
 

Kopstar

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Under Kenny and Brendan we got into the bad habit of conceding 50 goals a season, in Jurgen’s first season, (in his first 1.5 seasons actually because we were well on the way to conceding 50 goals again) we did the same. Jurgen, as utterly brilliant as he is, got no more out of the likes of Skrtel, Sakho, Mingolet et al than Brendan did. That’s just a fact.
Things only changed when we went out and broke the world transfer record on a Rolls Royce of a CB, the moment Virgil Van Dirk walked through the doors of this club on the 27th December 2017 some mysterious force dramatically applied the brakes to our Goals Against column. When we broke the world transfer record for a goal keeper a few months later we went up another level again.
All our recent success, our 6th European Cup, our first League title in 30 years, our World Club Championship win etc etc has been built on the back of our expensively assembled defence. The difference between us and City was that we had a great defence and they didn’t. Over the last 2 seasons we haven’t ripped the premier league to absolute shreds like Brendan’s 13/14 side, the last 2 seasons has been largely about digging out results and showing incredible mental toughness, we could dig out results because we no longer threw games away with Keystone Cops defending/goal keeping.
Our net spend might be low but the fortunes of this club changed the moment we spent a fortune on 2 top quality players.
Yes the transfer committee have worked miracles recently getting the likes of Sadio, Mo, Robbo etc etc in relatively cheaply but let’s not kid ourselves, if you want to compete for the biggest prizes in the biggest sport on the face of the planet you are going to have to spend big on quality players.
No VVD, No Alisson = No League title, No European Cup.........it’s as simple as that, if we don’t break the world transfer record twice we don’t win what we have won over the last 2 years.
I notice that you respond to my post but don't answer the question it poses. Care to have a go at that?
 

gasband

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Oh ok, suddenly, the only reason that we won everything we won, is just down to spending on buying 2 players. That's easy isn't it. The coaching of TAA into probably one of the best RB at just the age of 21 is not a reason. The fantastic easing in of Robertson whom we bought at just 8m and now again one of the best LB in the world is not a reason. The advent of one of the strongest midfield trio and world class forward line were not a reason. The mentality monster that Klopp and team has built into the squad was not a reason. The fact is some of you guys coming all out to blast the team just because we lost the shield, yes we lost, but all it took is one match to erase the foundation that the team has built is perplexing. Luckily, Klopp and the club does not care about what you say. They do what they believe is right for the club and fortunately, I think most fans agree that they have earn their right to do so.
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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I notice that you respond to my post but don't answer the question it poses. Care to have a go at that?
Why do you mention a first XI? Titles arent won by XI players.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that if we had say, Werner, Thiago and someone who could come off the bench and make an impact off the bench like Adama Traore in our current squad that we’d have less chance of winning the league?
 

[email protected]

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Under Kenny and Brendan we got into the bad habit of conceding 50 goals a season, in Jurgen’s first season, (in his first 1.5 seasons actually because we were well on the way to conceding 50 goals again) we did the same. Jurgen, as utterly brilliant as he is, got no more out of the likes of Skrtel, Sakho, Mingolet et al than Brendan did. That’s just a fact.
Things only changed when we went out and broke the world transfer record on a Rolls Royce of a CB, the moment Virgil Van Dirk walked through the doors of this club on the 27th December 2017 some mysterious force dramatically applied the brakes to our Goals Against column. When we broke the world transfer record for a goal keeper a few months later we went up another level again.
All our recent success, our 6th European Cup, our first League title in 30 years, our World Club Championship win etc etc has been built on the back of our expensively assembled defence. The difference between us and City was that we had a great defence and they didn’t. Over the last 2 seasons we haven’t ripped the premier league to absolute shreds like Brendan’s 13/14 side, the last 2 seasons has been largely about digging out results and showing incredible mental toughness, we could dig out results because we no longer threw games away with Keystone Cops defending/goal keeping.
Our net spend might be low but the fortunes of this club changed the moment we spent a fortune on 2 top quality players.
Yes the transfer committee have worked miracles recently getting the likes of Sadio, Mo, Robbo etc etc in relatively cheaply but let’s not kid ourselves, if you want to compete for the biggest prizes in the biggest sport on the face of the planet you are going to have to spend big on quality players.
No VVD, No Alisson = No League title, No European Cup.........it’s as simple as that, if we don’t break the world transfer record twice we don’t win what we have won over the last 2 years.
Not entirely correct. The real watershed was the 4-0 at Spurs when Lovren got subbed off ridiculously early. From the next game onward we've been pretty much spot on as a defence. We obviously did still concede goals but it was no longer a case of seeing the goals rack up from a mile away. There was a major tactical shift from that point on and the acquisitions VVD and Alisson combined with the coming of age of Gomez and Trent and Robertson completed the transition from pathetic to supreme. The purchases made a huge difference, obviously but it was not the only answer to the question as defending in a team sport is more than just lining up great individuals.
 

gasband

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Why do you mention a first XI? Titles arent won by XI players.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that if we had say, Werner, Thiago and someone who could come off the bench and make an impact off the bench like Adama Traore in our current squad that we’d have less chance of winning the league?
Precisely, you make our point. If titles are not won by 11 players, its won by the squad, so we won the CL and league, are you now telling us that our squad is not good enough? If it is not good enough, how did we win all that we won? We won not because we had the best players in the world. We won because we had the best fucking balance of everything. If not, why stop at just Werner and Thiago? I love them to come, but the fact that you missed that what Klopp has built is not based on stacking expensive players in the squad but players who can play the way we did. We will improve, KLopp will demand we improve, we might buy a few players along the way, but if BUYING PLAYERS are the only way, we are seriously disrespecting what Klopp has done and is trying to build.
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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Oh ok, suddenly, the only reason that we won everything we won, is just down to spending on buying 2 players. That's easy isn't it. The coaching of TAA into probably one of the best RB at just the age of 21 is not a reason. The fantastic easing in of Robertson whom we bought at just 8m and now again one of the best LB in the world is not a reason. The advent of one of the strongest midfield trio and world class forward line were not a reason. The mentality monster that Klopp and team has built into the squad was not a reason. The fact is some of you guys coming all out to blast the team just because we lost the shield, yes we lost, but all it took is one match to erase the foundation that the team has built is perplexing. Luckily, Klopp and the club does not care about what you say. They do what they believe is right for the club and fortunately, I think most fans agree that they have earn their right to do so.
Defences win titles lad. If Roy Evans, Brendan etc would have had Virgil and Alisson we wouldn’t have had to wait 30 years that’s for sure. I’ll say it again no VVD and no Alisson and we don’t win the title or European Cup.
 

gasband

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Defences win titles lad. If Roy Evans, Brendan etc would have had Virgil and Alisson we wouldn’t have had to wait 30 years that’s for sure. I’ll say it again no VVD and no Alisson and we don’t win the title or European Cup.
Oh so with VVD and Alisson, we would have won the title if we had Konchesky in LB, Philip Degen in RB and Torben Piechnik partnering VVD? We bought VVD and Alisson because they were the right players we need and it happens that they just cost that much, not because they are the flavour of the week or that Klopp believes in spending unnecessarily. They are important but for you to strip our efforts to simply buying 2 players, wow. Good for you.
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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Precisely, you make our point. If titles are not won by 11 players, its won by the squad, so we won the CL and league, are you now telling us that our squad is not good enough? If it is not good enough, how did we win all that we won? We won not because we had the best players in the world. We won because we had the best fucking balance of everything. If not, why stop at just Werner and Thiago? I love them to come, but the fact that you missed that what Klopp has built is not based on stacking expensive players in the squad but players who can play the way we did. We will improve, KLopp will demand we improve, we might buy a few players along the way, but if BUYING PLAYERS are the only way, we are seriously disrespecting what Klopp has done and is trying to build.
Where did I say it’s not good enough? Where did I say you need to buy the XI most expensive players in the world?
 

gasband

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First titles are not won by 11 players, then suddenly, titles are only won because we bought VVD and Alisson. So what is what. What are titles won by? If our titles are not won by Klopp's prudent buying only when necessary and back up by a great coaching team, then what won our titles? According to you, it seems, buying 2 players are the only reason we won the title.
 

Kopstar

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Why do you mention a first XI? Titles arent won by XI players.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that if we had say, Werner, Thiago and someone who could come off the bench and make an impact off the bench like Adama Traore in our current squad that we’d have less chance of winning the league?
And we've added to the squad the likes of Elliott, Minamino, Tsimikas, Adrian and brought through the likes of Williams and Jones. Now would you care to answer the question?
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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Oh so with VVD and Alisson, we would have won the title if we had Konchesky in LB, Philip Degen in RB and Torben Piechnik partnering VVD? We bought VVD and Alisson because they were the right players we need and it happens that they just cost that much, not because they are the flavour of the week or that Klopp believes in spending unnecessarily. They are important but for you to strip our efforts to simply buying 2 players, wow. Good for you.
You sure like your straw man arguments don’t you? I’m saying if we would have had VVD and Alisson that year when we finished ‘4th in a 2 horse race’ under Evans when Fowler and Collymore were on fire but David James and the defence fell apart right at the end of the season that we would have won it that year. Same in 13/14.
 

cynicaloldgit

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... all it took is one match to erase the foundation that the team has built is perplexing.
It’s not just one game, though, is it? Our last ten competitive games (last nine league games of 2019-20 and the Community Shield- yes, it is classed as a competitive fixture) have yielded 5 wins, 3 draws and two defeats. That equates to 1.8 points per game, or 68.4 points over a full season. And let’s not ignore the fact that the game immediately before that run was the defeat to Atletico Madrid in the Champions League, a game we absolutely dominated but could not put to bed.

A return of 68 points last year would have had us second, only just above a Manchester United team we all see as a laughing stock and a Chelsea side who are spending with gay abandon this summer.

Now, I fully trust our board and management team to find the right answers without endangering the long-term health of the club. They have certainly shown over the last few years that they know what they are doing. But the recent on-field performances have been worrying. And before everyone says “well, we had already won the title and the players were in beach mode”, they are professionals who should take pride in their performance in every match.

Klopp probably let them off for the Manchester City game but you can be sure he can’t have been too happy with the other performances, perhaps with the exception of the Palace game- although to put that into context, Uncle Woy’s merry men lost eight games in a row after the restart.
 

gasband

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You sure like your straw man arguments don’t you? I’m saying if we would have had VVD and Alisson that year when we finished ‘4th in a 2 horse race’ under Evans when Fowler and Collymore were on fire but David James and the defence fell apart right at the end of the season that we would have won it that year. Same in 13/14.
Ok sure, I am the one giving straw man arguments. Its ok, I leave it here for everyone to see but as I always do, I have no need to win arguments online and I believe in everyone's right to have an opinion.
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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And we've added to the squad the likes of Elliott, Minamino, Tsimikas, Adrian and brought through the likes of Williams and Jones. Now would you care to answer the question?
Elliot, Williams and Jones are kids, Tsimkas is a back up LB, Adrian is a back up keeper and Minamino is improving but has hardly set the world on fire.
This window Chelsea have signed Werner, Ziyech, Chilwell and Thiago Silva, plus according to Sky they are on the verge of signing Havertz, we are the champions but if you stand still in this sport you go backwards, if that type of trend continues it won’t take long for our rivals to catch and overtake us, in fact hand on heart it wouldn’t surprise me if Chelsea finished above us next season, I wasn’t fussed when we missed out on Pulisic, i dont watch German footy and he seemed like a hype job to me but he looks like he is about to inherit De Bruyne’s crown as the best player in the division.
 

Kopstar

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gasband

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It’s not just one game, though, is it? Our last ten competitive games (last nine league games of 2019-20 and the Community Shield- yes, it is classed as a competitive fixture) have yielded 5 wins, 3 draws and two defeats. That equates to 1.8 points per game, or 68.4 points over a full season. And let’s not ignore the fact that the game immediately before that run was the defeat to Atletico Madrid in the Champions League, a game we absolutely dominated but could not put to bed.

A return of 68 points last year would have had us second, only just above a Manchester United team we all see as a laughing stock and a Chelsea side who are spending with gay abandon this summer.

Now, I fully trust our board and management team to find the right answers without endangering the long-term health of the club. They have certainly shown over the last few years that they know what they are doing. But the recent on-field performances have been worrying. And before everyone says “well, we had already won the title and the players were in beach mode”, they are professionals who should take pride in their performance in every match.

Klopp probably let them off for the Manchester City game but you can be sure he can’t have been too happy with the other performances, perhaps with the exception of the Palace game- although to put that into context, Uncle Woy’s merry men lost eight games in a row after the restart.
As i mentioned, they have earn the right to build this team the way they envision. Why are some talking as if the club and Klopp do not know what they are doing? And at the end of the day, the results will speak for itself. I don't think Klopp for a moment believes in basking in past glory - yes to a guy like him, last season's victory counts for nothing now. He bought zilch and won the league. If he believes we can do it again in the way he believes the club should be run, I think he has the track record to show for it, isn't it? Our achievements did not happen overnight. Klopp and the team built the success step by step. And yes the fact is we did not do very well after the restart, but then we are using that as a gauge of what is going to happen this coming season? Why don't we use what happened before the shut down?
 

Noo Noo

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Why don't we use what happened before the shut down
I would argue that the last two seasons as a whole are a better gauge with some allowance for other teams getting better against you.

So while I think we're in a great place we also need to make a few adjustments to keep the opposition guessing. Klopp knows whether that means a personel change or not.
 

Billy Stevo's left boot

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One long term injury to any of our front 3 and our season is done. They have played a hell of a lot of football over the last 2 and a half years as well. Bobby looks like he has played 2 and a half years none stop,