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The Owners

redfanman

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Wow - well, at least you've made your opinion clear and easy to spot. No need to try and have that discussion.
That said, your opinion differs from mine.

Rodgers was slapped with the descriptor "arrogant" by the media and it seems a portion of the fanbase of Liverpool took heartily to it because he wasn't the manager they wanted. Fans of teams he doesn't manage also seem to love using it.
From what I've seen, the biggest fault he had was being willing to stand up for himself and his team when reporters took crack shots at him or the team.

Regardless, he managed to get Swansea to the Premier League.
He set the foundation for Liverpool returning to top part of the table and almost won the league in a season where noone expected them to challenge.
He took 2 titles with Celtic.
He finished 5th with Leicester.
Along the way he won the LMA Manager of the year with Liverpool, and the Scotland manager of the year with Celtic.

That's not bad managing. You may not like him, and that's your choice (though I'm willing to bet you don't know him), but he's not a bad manager.
You should read what Celtic fans thought of him. Their board couldnt wait to pack him off to Leicester.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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You should read what Celtic fans thought of him. Their board couldnt wait to pack him off to Leicester.
......once it became clear he was going. They worshipped him and believed he was with them long term and getting them the 10 titles on a run and the treble treble etc before it turned out he was going to take the Leicester job. The guy is extremely nice, bit cringey, but mostly the LFC fans who have problems with him are those that had problems with him before we kicked a ball under him. It was time for him to move on, things had got away from him and he didn't have the ability to pull it back. But things weren't easy for him when he came in (no recruitment team), things weren't handled very well setting up the operating unit and he faced real disasters over Suarez and Sturridge. He did his best and he nearly won us the league. He's a better coach than many out there and it's almost like he's more hated by some than Woy is. It's quite distasteful to me.
 

Red over the water

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Urgh he is an arrogant dick, he is so far detached from what a Liverpool manager should be.

Decent coach, can't manage a team to save his life.
There's some merit to this, but my viewpoint is basically this: It's nice to be nice!

Brendan Rodgers had and has his flaws, but since he was Liverpool manager, and since I'm a Liverpool fan, I will be gracious and give him as much benefit of the doubt as I reasonably can. That seems the Liverpool Way to me, from the fan POV.

So when I remember Rodgers, I will overlook the three envelopes, the self-portrait on the wall in that hideous documentary, the blarney the fella came out with, and also the fact that he got new teeth, slimmed down and binned the [fat] wife of his youth for a younger model...

I will choose to overlook all of that and remember the good times.

We played great football (not so much defensively - but still, overall great football) and almost landed that title. Ideally he would have come to us a little older, with some of the hubris knocked out of him, but such is life.

He was a Liverpool manager and he gave it his all. I cannot say he was shit.*

* There's only one former Liverpool manager I'll do that for, and obviously that's Roy Hodgson, but even then, it was a bad appointment in a tumultuous time with cowboys at the helm.
 
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big noyd

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I'm not sure that stands up to scrutiny - I thought the red sox issue was down to their wage bill being over the cap or something so they had to make drastic cuts?

As for us, if FSG were not serious about winning, then i don't see why they would reinvest so much money back into the squad on wages or into infrastructure, such as the training ground.
baseball doesn't have a cap afaik--just a luxury tax threshold

in looking after their investment FSG has rescued the club's finances and the on-field product, the argument is just that they're not going to spend beyond their immediate rona-constrained means to finish first instead of second

he says sure, klopp will want thiago if gini goes, but klopp wanted werner, and alex cora or whoever the red sox manager is probably wanted mookie betts too
 

gr_sounder

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Funny, isn't it, how fans and owners of clubs managed by Rodgers are nearly always left with a sour taste in their mouth?
Most Liverpool fans weren't happy with his appointment in the first place - instead wanting someone with a better track record / CV.

Reality was that at the time, Liverpool didn't have the clout to pick up a manager already considered top tier so they were going to find a manager that was "up and coming". They picked Brendan Rodgers when many fans would have preferred Roberto Martinez.
 

cynicaloldgit

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are they going to find another broadcast partner in china, or does that mean a revenue stream is gone?
There’s an article in the Financial Times about this. I won’t post the whole thing, as it is behind a paywall, but the most salient paragraph is this:

“One person with direct knowledge of the dispute said PPTV still hopes to come to an agreement with the Premier League, but would not continue to pay the full value of the broadcast deal at the “same price and condition as pre-Covid”. “
 

gr_sounder

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You should read what Celtic fans thought of him. Their board couldnt wait to pack him off to Leicester.
It's true, the fans and board were very much against him.... after he decided to leave.

Yes it's rough when a manager chooses to leave before the season is over - it validates that you're team isn't as much a prize as the one for which the person is leaving - but they were well ahead in the league race, and had already won a cup.
 

gr_sounder

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I'm not sure that stands up to scrutiny - I thought the red sox issue was down to their wage bill being over the cap or something so they had to make drastic cuts?

As for us, if FSG were not serious about winning, then i don't see why they would reinvest so much money back into the squad on wages or into infrastructure, such as the training ground.
No baseball doesn't have a salary cap. They just put a "Competitive Balance tax" on teams that spend more than a certain amount on wages. This is simply a 20% tax of any wages over the limit. If you go over it a 2nd year it rises to 30%, and if you do a 3rd year it's 50%.

FSG are definitely serious about winning. They believe in building a solid organization in all areas. They aren't against bringing in big money players as long as they are good value. The problem with the Red Sox was that the team was full of high earners who were no longer high performers.
 

redfanman

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......once it became clear he was going. They worshipped him and believed he was with them long term and getting them the 10 titles on a run and the treble treble etc before it turned out he was going to take the Leicester job. The guy is extremely nice, bit cringey, but mostly the LFC fans who have problems with him are those that had problems with him before we kicked a ball under him. It was time for him to move on, things had got away from him and he didn't have the ability to pull it back. But things weren't easy for him when he came in (no recruitment team), things weren't handled very well setting up the operating unit and he faced real disasters over Suarez and Sturridge. He did his best and he nearly won us the league. He's a better coach than many out there and it's almost like he's more hated by some than Woy is. It's quite distasteful to me.
I've posted a couple of times in this forum a link to a celtic fanzine that listed the issues he caused while at the club.

Generally boards don't rush to move on their managers without good reason. Celtic's did so without giving it a second thought despite Leicester not rushing to fill the post.
 

Kopstar

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Most Liverpool fans weren't happy with his appointment in the first place - instead wanting someone with a better track record / CV.

Reality was that at the time, Liverpool didn't have the clout to pick up a manager already considered top tier so they were going to find a manager that was "up and coming". They picked Brendan Rodgers when many fans would have preferred Roberto Martinez.
Forgive me, how does his relatively low managerial stature when we hired him have any bearing on just how much of a twat he is?
 

big noyd

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There’s an article in the Financial Times about this. I won’t post the whole thing, as it is behind a paywall, but the most salient paragraph is this:

“One person with direct knowledge of the dispute said PPTV still hopes to come to an agreement with the Premier League, but would not continue to pay the full value of the broadcast deal at the “same price and condition as pre-Covid”. “
yeah the athletic article i tried to read on the subject was behind a paywall too

so i gave up basically
 

Neukolln

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No baseball doesn't have a salary cap. They just put a "Competitive Balance tax" on teams that spend more than a certain amount on wages. This is simply a 20% tax of any wages over the limit. If you go over it a 2nd year it rises to 30%, and if you do a 3rd year it's 50%.

FSG are definitely serious about winning. They believe in building a solid organization in all areas. They aren't against bringing in big money players as long as they are good value. The problem with the Red Sox was that the team was full of high earners who were no longer high performers.
Like Pablo Sandoval for instance, who they awarded 5 years, 95M (USD) to and he didn't even complete one full season for them before getting hurt because he was so heavy and out of shape, yet they are still paying him. Think about that and how ludicrous that sounds. FSG/Red Sox have given out many similarly ridiculous deals. That was just one of many. Also worth noting, they fired the general manager, Dave Dombrowski, that awarded a vast majority of those deals.

I have a lifelong American friend from Boston. He is as Boston as they come. When he stayed with us in Berlin we would listen to him talk for hours, that accent kept us captivated! Anyway, everyone in Boston lives/sleeps/eats/drinks their baseball team. It is a religion there. But he said that something is happening within FSG. It's a philosophical sea-change, and no one knows quite sure why. People speculate John Henry might not be well, or perhaps they are preparing to offload some things in their investment portfolio, no one is quite sure. They raised their ticket prices again, but they have done a complete reversal on how they spend. As opposed to "buying their way" to a championship trophy as they did in 2018, they are targeting a younger squad. The first of those dominoes was the "trade" (American sports term) of their prized asset Mookie Betts. Trading Betts (along with another player named Price) Red Sox (FSG) saved themselves 43M (USD) off wages just this year alone. Also worth noting, they also happen to be at the bottom of the table in their division.

EDIT: I have a respect for John Henry. He seems a good fellow and he is a smart man. I have posted that thought before. However, my perception of Linda Pizzuti has changed dramatically. I once thought she was a lovely woman but the more I see and hear of her, she seems a bit fake. She comes off as a completely disingenuous glory hunter when it comes to anything Red Sox and Liverpool.
 
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Red Armada

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So when I remember Rodgers, I will overlook the three envelopes, the self-portrait on the wall in that hideous documentary, the blarney the fella came out with, and also the fact that he got new teeth, slimmed down and binned the [fat] wife of his youth for a younger model...

I will choose to overlook all of that and remember the good times.
It isn't his arrogance and narcissism that has to be overlooked. Those traits would have been easy to ignore if he were good enough to manage Liverpool.

It's the 6-1 to fucking Stoke, the Madrid debacle in the CL, the humiliating defeat against Villa in the FA Cup semifinal, it's him throwing his players under the bus, him not playing the players that the committee bought, him putting himself above the club that leave a sour taste. Hodgson was undoubtedly worse yes, but at least he has some valid excuses to point to. Rodgers caught lightning in a bottle in 13/14 but then he couldn't manage Suarez's departure. It was a huge loss and it wasn't entirely his fault but he did nothing to help things along. Quite the contrary.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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I've posted a couple of times in this forum a link to a celtic fanzine that listed the issues he caused while at the club.

Generally boards don't rush to move on their managers without good reason. Celtic's did so without giving it a second thought despite Leicester not rushing to fill the post.
The £6m in compensation may have helped!
 

Red over the water

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It isn't his arrogance and narcissism that has to be overlooked. Those traits would have been easy to ignore if he were good enough to manage Liverpool.

It's the 6-1 to fucking Stoke, the Madrid debacle in the CL, the humiliating defeat against Villa in the FA Cup semifinal, it's him throwing his players under the bus, him not playing the players that the committee bought, him putting himself above the club that leave a sour taste. Hodgson was undoubtedly worse yes, but at least he has some valid excuses to point to. Rodgers caught lightning in a bottle in 13/14 but then he couldn't manage Suarez's departure. It was a huge loss and it wasn't entirely his fault but he did nothing to help things along. Quite the contrary.
I don't especially disagree, but now as I look back I'm able to be more charitable toward the fell, 'tis all.

I might be old school, but I don't like reds speaking too harshly about our former manager. I know football is rife with quick comments and put downs aplenty, and it's all part and parcel of the game... so maybe I am out of place in my view.

For me Rodgers did quite well, for a while, and took us on an exhilarating ride when we went so, so close. All the other stuff sort of melts away at this point.
 

gr_sounder

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Like Pablo Sandoval for instance, who they awarded 5 years, 95M (USD) to and he didn't even complete one full season for them before getting hurt because he was so heavy and out of shape, yet they are still paying him. Think about that and how ludicrous that sounds. FSG/Red Sox have given out many similarly ridiculous deals. That was just one of many. Also worth noting, they fired the general manager, Dave Dombrowski, that awarded a vast majority of those deals.

I have a lifelong American friend from Boston. He is as Boston as they come. When he stayed with us in Berlin we would listen to him talk for hours, that accent kept us captivated! Anyway, everyone in Boston lives/sleeps/eats/drinks their baseball team. It is a religion there. But he said that something is happening within FSG. It's a philosophical sea-change, and no one knows quite sure why. People speculate John Henry might not be well, or perhaps they are preparing to offload some things in their investment portfolio, no one is quite sure. They raised their ticket prices again, but they have done a complete reversal on how they spend. As opposed to "buying their way" to a championship trophy as they did in 2018, they are targeting a younger squad. The first of those dominoes was the "trade" (American sports term) of their prized asset Mookie Betts. Trading Betts (along with another player named Price) Red Sox (FSG) saved themselves 43M (USD) off wages just this year alone. Also worth noting, they also happen to be at the bottom of the table in their division.

EDIT: I have a respect for John Henry. He seems a good fellow and he is a smart man. I have posted that thought before. However, my perception of Linda Pizzuti has changed dramatically. I once thought she was a lovely woman but the more I see and hear of her, she seems a bit fake. She comes off as a completely disingenuous glory hunter when it comes to anything Red Sox and Liverpool.
Yes there are some crazy wonderful and ridiculous fans in Boston and they in general love their teams. There is no split in the city .... for Baseball it's the RedSox, Basketball hte Celtics, in Hockey the Bruins, and NFL it's the Patriots. You know what though, they also whine and complain about as much as anyone if they aren't in 1st place. Take much of what any Boston fan says and compartmentalize it based on the current situation of their sports teams.

But since you brought it up, signing Pablo Sandoval wasn't a ridiculous contract. Sandoval was one of the biggest names and best players from the team that had won the MLB World Series the prior year (and 3 of the previous 5 years). Granted the trade didn't work out (yes in the USA they do player trades and not buying of contracts) but it was a chance they took trying to get back to the top and in reality his salary wasn't that exhorbitant. Not all trades work out but on paper it wasn't a bad trade when it happened.

Trading Mookie Betts was also a good idea. Sure they could have kept him as he was one of the best players they have, but he's an outfielder that gets to bat 3-4 times a game, and that alone will not win you games. The team needed to get better and younger. So you sell someone for big money. Think of Liverpool selling a star player to help rebuild --- you know like when they sold Fernando Torres. It was the right thing to do from a club perspective. With or with Torres, Liverpool wasn't going to win the league - they needed other players. Just like with Boston RedSox, Betts wasn't going to win them the league - they needed a new start.

Finally, what have you possibly got against Linda Pizzuti. She is not a businesswoman pulling strings for either Liverpool nor the RedSox. her only "job" is enjoy herself at events that those teams are in because he husband is one of the leaders of the ownership group. She's enjoying her life, what's wrong with that. It's not like she's taking any credit herself.
 

Red over the water

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Just want to defend the lovely Linda Pizzuti for a second, too.

Childhood red? Ha! Not likely.
Supportive 'cheerleader' from the side of her husband? Heck yes, and good for her.
Actually consequential with anything LFC? Nope, and I don't expect her to be.

Seems a bit off bringing her into the argument... unless of course there is something substantive that she did wrong that I'm not aware of.
 

Neukolln

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Listen, @Red over the water and @gr_sounder , you guys can have your opinions, and I can have mine as well. Nothing to get excited about. Neither of us are right and neither of us are wrong. @gr_sounder are you in America? Only reason I ask is you speak about baseball with a certain vigor. And for the record, I don’t agree with much of what you say, but I find your viewpoint and posts interesting regardless. But really nice way to paint “all” Boston fans with that broad brush of yours.

EDIT: and yeah, totally the right moves. That last place position speaks to that. Lol
 

gr_sounder

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Have you heard the man speak?
I have. And while I'm not saying that he comes across as the most humble fellow, he's not the worst I've heard either.
It's fine if he rubs some people the wrong way, but he gets more than his fair share of crap from what I've seen.

Of course all this will really come down to personal preferences, and that's fine I guess as long as it's within reason. But honestly it drives me nuts that a man that did so much to help get Liverpool back on track of winning again - and who almost took a team to the title in a season they weren't expected to do much and in was done with so many players that weren't "Top 4" quality - gets so much crap from the team's own fans.

Look again at the 2013/14 roster - it's crazy. Agger, Sakho, Skrtel in central defense, Jon Flanagan and Johnson as outside backs. That's not a defense you should be counting on to come ANYWHERE near the top of the table.
 

gr_sounder

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Listen, @Red over the water and @gr_sounder , you guys can have your opinions, and I can have mine as well. Nothing to get excited about. Neither of us are right and neither of us are wrong. @gr_sounder are you in America? Only reason I ask is you speak about baseball with a certain vigor. And for the record, I don’t agree with much of what you say, but I find your viewpoint and posts interesting regardless. But really nice way to paint “all” Boston fans with that broad brush of yours.
I am in the USA - and grew up in the Northeast :) I know a LOT of Boston fans.

I'm 50 years old, and I've followed sports my entire life, including Liverpool since I was 10 years old (not easy to do back in the 1980s from the USA). Part of my favorite years watching baseball were of the Boston teams with Carl Yastrzemski and Carlton Fisk. Some of the best basketball was the Celtics under Bird, McHale and Johnson. Hockey with Bobby Orr, and Football -- well the Patriots sucked when I grew up.

Boston has a reputation among fanbases here in the USA and it's rightly given. If you want to sit in Germany with knowledge of a handful of Boston fans and tell me I'm wrong - you can do that but don't try the "really nice way to paint all Boston fans". Boston fans are not fickle fans, they are true personifications of "fans" which is a shortened verson of Fanatics. If you can find me ANY die-hard Boston fan who will tell me that the team aren't either a) The greatest thing on the planet or b) the worst bunch of bums ever assembled and they should all be traded and management fired.... then I'd love to meet them. No they aren't "all" like that, but the vast vast majority of die-hard fans are, and they'll agree with me.

By the way - lest I get painted in a certain light --- I'll point out a few things.
1. I only brought up these things on Boston, baseball and FSG's management to provide a more complete accurate picture on circumstances that were used as examples by people. I am not saying those posts were "wrong", I'm saying that the comments didn't have a full picture of events so I was providing more.
2. I'm not a big baseball fan these days but I was when younger. But if you're a fan of sports in the USA, you hear about baseball during summer.
3. I have many die-hard Boston fans even though I do not live in Boston at present. I did grow up supporting many of their teams (not exclusively).

This is an "owners" thread and currently FSG are the owners of Liverpool. That group also owns the Boston RedSox, and the Roush Fenway Racing team (NASCAR). Do they do everything right - hell no. Do they want to win and do what they believe is best for success and sustainability--- yes. This goes for player contracts, signings of players and management, departures, stadium, and fan enjoyment.
 
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Mascot88

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Wow - well, at least you've made your opinion clear and easy to spot. No need to try and have that discussion.
That said, your opinion differs from mine.

Rodgers was slapped with the descriptor "arrogant" by the media and it seems a portion of the fanbase of Liverpool took heartily to it because he wasn't the manager they wanted. Fans of teams he doesn't manage also seem to love using it.
From what I've seen, the biggest fault he had was being willing to stand up for himself and his team when reporters took crack shots at him or the team.

Regardless, he managed to get Swansea to the Premier League.
He set the foundation for Liverpool returning to top part of the table and almost won the league in a season where noone expected them to challenge.
He took 2 titles with Celtic.
He finished 5th with Leicester.
Along the way he won the LMA Manager of the year with Liverpool, and the Scotland manager of the year with Celtic.

That's not bad managing. You may not like him, and that's your choice (though I'm willing to bet you don't know him), but he's not a bad manager.
I think Rodgers is a good manager, but there are done critical flaws there which I think might prevent him from achieving his potential. His interview on the 30 years programme was really revealing. The comments on Van Dijk, despite having literally turned down the chance to sign him when he moved to Southampton, shows a both a lack of humility and a poor eye when it comes to players. I was genuinely astonished.

That said I do think he was part of the process to get back on our perch rather than a misstep. He did a decent job and laid some decent foundations for Klopp to improve on, even if ultimately the job was a bit too big for him.
 

gr_sounder

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I think Rodgers is a good manager, but there are done critical flaws there which I think might prevent him from achieving his potential. His interview on the 30 years programme was really revealing. The comments on Van Dijk, despite having literally turned down the chance to sign him when he moved to Southampton, shows a both a lack of humility and a poor eye when it comes to players. I was genuinely astonished.

That said I do think he was part of the process to get back on our perch rather than a misstep. He did a decent job and laid some decent foundations for Klopp to improve on, even if ultimately the job was a bit too big for him.
And this is a completely fair and honest assessment.
I am not a massive fan of Rodgers, I just think he gets a lot more disdain than he deserves. Did he make mistakes absolutely. Was he the ideal manager for Liverpool long term? Absolutely not.

And yes, he made huge mistakes both in public relations and player selection. That said he did bring in some very nice players that made a big impact and more importantly got a playing style that was a nice transition into what Klopp would bring to the table.
 

jim bouki

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I think Rodgers is a good manager, but there are done critical flaws there which I think might prevent him from achieving his potential. His interview on the 30 years programme was really revealing. The comments on Van Dijk, despite having literally turned down the chance to sign him when he moved to Southampton, shows a both a lack of humility and a poor eye when it comes to players. I was genuinely astonished.

That said I do think he was part of the process to get back on our perch rather than a misstep. He did a decent job and laid some decent foundations for Klopp to improve on, even if ultimately the job was a bit too big for him.
He didn't really lay much of a foundation at all tbh. He played no part in signing Hendo or Bobby (didn't want him - was a TC signing) played him wing back ffs - the only 2 starters left from his tenure. We can thank Benitez for Coutinho (who Klopp flipped for VVD & Ali). Klopp had a complete overhaul of the shite Rodgers left. The only thing we can thank BR for is that his sacking led to us getting Klopp.
 

Noo Noo

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Putting aside the fact that Rodgers was a bit of a pleb at times my largest issue was that he seems pretty clueless on how to build a team. I'd even go as far as saying I'm not convinced that he can actually recognise why a certain player is better than another. Tactically I also found him a little bit wanting. With us his tactics basically degenerated from promising Tiki Taka to what was ultimately kick and rush. And when he settled on that tactic he didn't have a clue on what players he needed to deliver it.

To this day I'm still reeling at the fact we signed Benteke. I'm glad we escaped seeing Williams as the answer to shoring up our defense and poor old Joe Allen is not Xavi. These are decent pro's but they do not fit what we needed or what he wanted to deliver.

The difference between now and then is night and day. I wonder what Klopp would have done with Suarez? :unsure:
 

Mascot88

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He didn't really lay much of a foundation at all tbh. He played no part in signing Hendo or Bobby (didn't want him - was a TC signing) played him wing back ffs - the only 2 starters left from his tenure. We can thank Benitez for Coutinho (who Klopp flipped for VVD & Ali). Klopp had a complete overhaul of the shite Rodgers left. The only thing we can thank BR for is that his sacking led to us getting Klopp.
Klopp’s assessment when he arrived was that he inherited good players who had been well coached. They were already one of the most aggressive pressing teams in the league and players like Lallana, Can, Clyne, Milner, Sturridge, Coutinho etc. we’re integral to Klopp’s first couple of years.

They were not the players that Klopp would take to a league title, but they were they player Klopp took to the Champions league, and without that step, we don’t get Van Dijk, Alisson, Salah et al.
 

Noo Noo

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Klopp’s assessment when he arrived was that he inherited good players who had been well coached. They were already one of the most aggressive pressing teams in the league and players like Lallana, Can, Clyne, Milner, Sturridge, Coutinho etc. we’re integral to Klopp’s first couple of years.

They were not the players that Klopp would take to a league title, but they were they player Klopp took to the Champions league, and without that step, we don’t get Van Dijk, Alisson, Salah et al.
I think Klopp would have said that about any group he inherited to be fair. He would have known their were weaknesses to address but his first priority was pulling the club together. Getting the squad full on board was a key part of that. He would have also known that he couldn't go into the market in one hit to address those weaknesses. That said that isn't his style. He probably wanted 6 months with them to really nail down where he saw the problems.