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THE REALITY

Joined
Nov 10, 2012
Messages
57
What they are trying to do is.

1. spend only what they earn.
2. have very little or no debt
3. be profitable
4. qualify for the champions league
5. betting the house of financial fair play
6. buy only witha good resale

In effect achieve what no one else can and if it fails, well we already look up the premier league
 

TFC

TIA Squad Member
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Jul 6, 2011
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7,464
Yes, the dismantling started before last season, but last season was to be the 1st step towards rebuilding.

The problem is this new approach of "we totally wasted almost 100m so let's go ahead and cash in at 40 cents on the dollar, and bench the remaining ones - ie Hendo".

And it would be fine - just fine, if the owners agreed because they have the financial muscle to take the pain of rebuilding the rebuilding.

But they don't. They aint got no $ no more me thinks.

Here's why:

1. Unload expensive players
2. Loan out players
3. Unload the ones we just bought (maybe for the right reasons -but I'm talking $ signs now)
4. Don't invest the xtra 2m for CD and don't buy any more forwards when your manager says we have a thin squad
5. Investment co in trouble
6. No more ice cream photos in South Beach.

Could be nothing and they are financially fine. Or it could be that they ain't got enough to invest.

Hope that's not the case
I love a good conspiracy theory as the next guy, but they were pretty clear that the team is going to have to operate within itself and its own revenue stream. They aren't going to be taking money out of the club (like they would if they were as broke as you think) but they won't be injecting their own money in either.

If they really had no money they wouldn't have spent all that money firing/hiring staff.

Edit: And your line about Hendo contradicts itself. Why in gods name would they spend 15mp on Allen and bench the player if they spent 16mp on last season for financial reasons? That just defies logic.
 

CymruRed

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Yes, the dismantling started before last season, but last season was to be the 1st step towards rebuilding.

The problem is this new approach of "we totally wasted almost 100m so let's go ahead and cash in at 40 cents on the dollar, and bench the remaining ones - ie Hendo".

And it would be fine - just fine, if the owners agreed because they have the financial muscle to take the pain of rebuilding the rebuilding.

But they don't. They aint got no $ no more me thinks.

Here's why:

1. Unload expensive players
2. Loan out players
3. Unload the ones we just bought (maybe for the right reasons -but I'm talking $ signs now)
4. Don't invest the xtra 2m for CD and don't buy any more forwards when your manager says we have a thin squad
5. Investment co in trouble
6. No more ice cream photos in South Beach.

Could be nothing and they are financially fine. Or it could be that they ain't got enough to invest.

Hope that's not the case

Or you could think,FSG trusted their last manager and Comoli with millions,paying astronomical transfer fee's and wages,and getting nowhere near a title challenge or a CL spot.Then thought,lets scrap last years plan,of paying top money and go with a new young manager,use our youth and see what we already have at the club first,give the new manager an average amount of cash to start rebuilding till january,and if the team needs strengthening,we'll spend wisely on scouted players.

We know these guys aren't Chelsea/Man City rich,so why does it always come down to them not having any money or willing to spend any, when we don't go all out and buy £30mill+ players for every position?
 

darren kelly

"Luisito Estamos Con Vos"
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2,469
Listen any team in the country can become superstars over night all you need is a rich investor.
The dream that we will work hard and graft and balance the books and somehow win the league again is never going to happen.
We need new owners who have cash to build us a stand and some top players.We need players like Falcao to be signing.
The reality is we have great support all around the world but we need more than just balancing the books we need players to get us buzzing.
 

Mascot88

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Listen any team in the country can become superstars over night all you need is a rich investor.
The dream that we will work hard and graft and balance the books and somehow win the league again is never going to happen.
We need new owners who have cash to build us a stand and some top players.We need players like Falcao to be signing.
The reality is we have great support all around the world but we need more than just balancing the books we need players to get us buzzing.
I've been saying since Moores time that I wouldn't want to see that happen to Liverpool.

It's basically playing Football Manager with the cheats on. Maybe I'm old fashioned but there is something about having worked for your success that appeals to me.
 

Sine

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4. "..but I see what Rodgers is doing as a genuine attempt at reforming the club." He is. But rome was never built over 1 football season.
I would agree with it if .... Romans played football while the Rome was built.

They were pillaging throughout the continent looking for pretty / handsome slaves, Gaelic ale and fur off the backs of the Nords.

The mentality, I brave to say of most of the fans at the moment is just like that. Conquer, no questions, at all cost and if the commander or the soldiers are not up to the task, there's always the colloseum or in jolly exceptions exile.

Patience is gone, the instant victory is buzzing within the veins even though we are not crushing Real at home anymore and sad thing is that ... we still expect us to do so with the scraps of the squad we have.

I say ól... Loads of ól and then even more.
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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I've been saying since Moores time that I wouldn't want to see that happen to Liverpool.

It's basically playing Football Manager with the cheats on. Maybe I'm old fashioned but there is something about having worked for your success that appeals to me.
what about you go and make a coffee, and in the five minutes your gone ill have the cheats turned off and on and you wont know a thing apart from a very large and noticably better squad.....




and your last biscuits all gone.
 
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Billy Biskix

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we took the club apart. everything went, dalglish included, when we were in fact rebuilding the foundations of the club.

we didnt build on what we had, this summer we gutted it from the inside out.
You're absolutely right, of course and your earlier email nailed it too. And the excuses used for our poor results now, the injury to Lucas and the lack of a goalscorer could equally be applied to last season. For all the money spent and now being written off on players that no longer suit the new manager, we've still failed to address two fundamental problems in the squad. It's a bit like having a leaking gutter and rather than fixing it, knocking down your house and building a brand new one, then finding out your gutter still leaks.

Those that seek to discredit KD now always raise Carroll and the £35 million spent, conveniently overlooking that he was three weeks into a six month stint as caretaker manager when he was signed. Our owners are pretty clueless when it comes to the football side of the operation, but even I would hesitate to believe they would be so stupid as to allow someone in that position to spend that amount of money on one player. The bottom line is they trusted Comolli, their man, and he cost them a lot of money.

Still he's gone now and so has KD. We can give ourselves a collective ulcer railing against the injustice of it all, but there's just no point to it any more. KD's not coming back and neither is Rafa for that matter. None of what happened had anything to do with BR, he deserves our full support and the hope that he receives better treatment than they did.
 

EdWood

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Listen any team in the country can become superstars over night all you need is a rich investor.
The dream that we will work hard and graft and balance the books and somehow win the league again is never going to happen.
We need new owners who have cash to build us a stand and some top players.We need players like Falcao to be signing.
The reality is we have great support all around the world but we need more than just balancing the books we need players to get us buzzing.
I agree with this largely but there are many posters on here who apparently have limitless patience as they seemingly accept that it wiill take years and years for us to become realistic potential winners of the Premiership under the present owners. It's my personal opinion that this will never happen. There is very little chance that winning major trophies 'honourably' will work under present conditions; logically speaking, if the likes of citeh and the chavs are spending at least double the amount that we are spending, year after year, on strengthening their squads then our prospects are bleak indeed. FFP is being trodden underfoot and our ability to compete is being severely undermined by the fact that FSG either:

1) Aren't prepared to spend the required amount to give us even a fighting chance of getting CL football.

2) Just haven't got the money to do so.

My read is that they're attempting to make us profitable in order to sell us to the highest bidder and that success on the playing field is way down on their list of prioritories. Sooner mega-rich arabic or russian owners who love their football and don't quibble about how much it takes to win the glittering prizes than pure businessmen who view the club as just another asset to be sold when the profit margin is big enough.
 

JackleCube

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Sep 15, 2012
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651
There is very little chance that winning major trophies 'honourably' will work under present conditions; logically speaking, if the likes of citeh and the chavs are spending at least double the amount that we are spending, year after year, on strengthening their squads then our prospects are bleak indeed. FFP is being trodden underfoot and our ability to compete is being severely undermined by the fact that FSG either:
While I agree it is much more difficult without the funds, I still don't think it's impossible, if I or anyone else truly did think that, then wouldn't we all just give up? I think we all have some hope.

If my way of looking at it is a bit ropey then I apologise, as I'm not as wised up as some people around here but;

I would imagine Bayern have spent twice what Dortmund have spent almost every year for the past decade, yet Dortmund won the Bundesliga last season, and the same goes in France I'd imagine, where PSG have consistently spent more than Montpellier or Lille (although I admit I don't know for sure, so please correct me if I'm wrong). While the Premier league is more consistent and of a higher quality through-out, I still don't think something like this is an impossibility in the Premier League, fingers crossed it would be us.

Also, are City and Chelsea spending twice what we spend every season? I thought for the past decade we were the second or third highest spending team in the league? The difference being City and Chelsea bought quality and we bought utter shite? They may start to spend more than us in future, but that's because they can because they are not burdened by big mistakes of the past.

Also, it depends on out ambitions; winning the league is a million miles away right now, our main aim since we lost CL football has been to get it back again, and CL football is something Arsenal manage to achieve year in year out without spending much money, so there's no reason we couldn't do the same if we cut out all the shit dealings around here and actually gave a manager a chance to enforce his style and create a consistent team, unfazed by the constant changes around the football club.

And as much as I hate to say it, don't United win trophies fairly honourably? It's not like the Glazer's poured money into the club, but they did give the cash when it was needed, and they were probably happy to do so because it was on recommendation from the most successful manager in Premier League history; when Fergie says he wants a player, he tends to get that player, because the owners don't doubt his judgement, yet closer to home, our owners put their trust in someone the complete opposite; Comolli, and now appear to have lost trust in most people's ability to judge players, and hence we're suffering from a lack of funding for players; I predict more out of fear of making the same mistakes again rather than being too hard up. You have to put something in to get something back the way I see it, there has to be some initial outlay, you can't create a good sustainable club if the club's on field displays weren't good in the first place. We got that initial outlay last January, and pissed it all up the wall, and now we pay the price and so we're going to have to do things the hard way, hopefully in the process restoring the owners faith, proving that some people are actually capable of scouting a decent player.

Put simply, it won't be easy, but I do think it's possible, it's eleven players on a pitch, we just need to get the right eleven players, and get them before they cost a fortune, and we need them with the right mentality of positivity, the habit of winning, hunger and desire, all things I believe Brendan is looking for in every player he buys.
 

DEVGRU

Banned for the umpteenth time
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I would agree with it if .... Romans played football while the Rome was built.

They were pillaging throughout the continent looking for pretty / handsome slaves, Gaelic ale and fur off the backs of the Nords.

The mentality, I brave to say of most of the fans at the moment is just like that. Conquer, no questions, at all cost and if the commander or the soldiers are not up to the task, there's always the colloseum or in jolly exceptions exile.

Patience is gone, the instant victory is buzzing within the veins even though we are not crushing Real at home anymore and sad thing is that ... we still expect us to do so with the scraps of the squad we have.

I say ól... Loads of ól and then even more.
I would agree with it if .... Romans played football while the Rome was built.

They were pillaging throughout the continent looking for pretty / handsome slaves, Gaelic ale and fur off the backs of the Nords.

The mentality, I brave to say of most of the fans at the moment is just like that. Conquer, no questions, at all cost and if the commander or the soldiers are not up to the task, there's always the colloseum or in jolly exceptions exile.

Patience is gone, the instant victory is buzzing within the veins even though we are not crushing Real at home anymore and sad thing is that ... we still expect us to do so with the scraps of the squad we have.

I say ól... Loads of ól and then even more.
If you remember what happened after Dunkirk, we were rushing to prepare for the german invasion and did everything possible to ensure we sent no more hurricanes and spitfires back across the channel to be shot down. We had to build up our numbers and needed to defend England.

And that decision was proven correct when the shit hit the fan several weeks later.

I know I had me usual Guinness discharge...

Mischevious floats.
I dance to disco cause I don't like rock.
 

DEVGRU

Banned for the umpteenth time
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What they are trying to do is.

1. spend only what they earn.
2. have very little or no debt
3. be profitable
4. qualify for the champions league
5. betting the house of financial fair play
6. buy only witha good resale

In effect achieve what no one else can and if it fails, well we already look up the premier league
That about sums it up. But, the problem is, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea aren't playing by the rules and are spending well above what they should be limiting themselves to spending...and here lies the big big problem.

Hurricanes vs ME109's........
 

EdWood

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That about sums it up. But, the problem is, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea aren't playing by the rules and are spending well above what they should be limiting themselves to spending...and here lies the big big problem.

Hurricanes vs ME109's........
Actually the bulk of Fighter Command was made up of 'Hurries' and not 'Spits' in 1940 so we are most beholden to the former for winning The Battle Of Britain' but your point is well made; we can't hope to compete with those three because citeh & the chavs have bought their trophies due to massive team investment whilst the manure have done so because their owners know how to finance their club whilst maintaining massive debts at the same time. The best we can hope for is 4th but even that would rely on the spuds, barcodes and the rest making collective clusterf*cks of their league programme.

As things stand we are nowhere men.
 

DEVGRU

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Actually the bulk of Fighter Command was made up of 'Hurries' and not 'Spits' in 1940 so we are most beholden to the former for winning The Battle Of Britain' but your point is well made; we can't hope to compete with those three because citeh & the chavs have bought their trophies due to massive team investment whilst the manure have done so because their owners know how to finance their club whilst maintaining massive debts at the same time. The best we can hope for is 4th but even that would rely on the spuds, barcodes and the rest making collective clusterf*cks of their league programme.

As things stand we are nowhere men.
Nicely written..:)
 

Mascot88

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The way people go on about City and Chelsea you'd think that their untold billions give them the ability to put out more than eleven men at a time.

Of course we can compete, given time.
 

DEVGRU

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The way people go on about City and Chelsea you'd think that their untold billions give them the ability to put out more than eleven men at a time.

Of course we can compete, given time.
The problem is Mascott, their untold billions have allowed them to win the league over the past 5 seasons whilst we haven't won it for well over 18 years and counting. And it's unlikely we will be challenging for the title in the immediate future which makes it even harder.
 

EdWood

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The way people go on about City and Chelsea you'd think that their untold billions give them the ability to put out more than eleven men at a time.

Of course we can compete, given time.
To quote the great Spike Milligan: 'Patience is a word used by dull buggers who can't think fast enough'

No offence but you know what I'm saying: When was the last time we won the big domestic trophy? Before many posters on here were born probably. Jeez, how long do you want us to wait? Winning the Premiership is so heavily loaded in favour of the big money clubs that it's become a three horse race and the rest are there purely to make up the numbers. Let's look at the modern Premiership as it really is shall we?.
 

Mascot88

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They have a strong advantage, I agree.

But it still is 11 v 11.

That Rafa got with four points of the title while spending very little shows what can be achieved.
 

lancashirelad

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Oct 31, 2012
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Honestly it's like people think that having a whinge about our results and current standing in the game will make a difference or something, get a hold of yourselves and stop crying like babies, this is sport and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, sometimes your on top and sometimes your not, it's all part of the high and lows of supporting your favourite team in whatever sport you follow.

If you can't hack it then find another hobby but for the love of christ stop whinging, I can barely stand this site anymore, there is some great members here who's opinions I really respect but there is also a large group of woe is me members who just want to complain about everything they can because this site gives them a forum to have a whinge.

Appreciate that things aren't going exactly to plan for the club and that we all want the best but everyine from the playing staff to the management staff to the support staff are doing everything in their power to get us back to where we all want to be so just suck it up and deal with it and hopefully we can make it back to the top, if we don't well I will still be watching every game with just the same level of excitement as I do right now.

Honestly some people's support feels so conditional these days, not saying I never complain but people just have to repeat these same posts time and again about mid table mediocrity and the rest of it and I'm over it. It is this negative, defeatist attitude that is hurting the club as much as anything.
Couldn't agree more, I browse of three LFC sites and its the same on every one these days.

Problem is, everyone is waiting for January, and there are no guarantees there at all.

One thing for sure, and it may be a silly metric, but I travel down to Mexico regularly for fishing, golfing etc, and I don't see as many kids wearing Liverpool shirts today, whereas I used to see half a dozen on every street corner, if we don't get out of this funk, we're going to lose a whole generation of fringe supporters, who would eventually see the light and be reds for life!.!
 

EdWood

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They have a strong advantage, I agree.

But it still is 11 v 11.

That Rafa got with four points of the title while spending very little shows what can be achieved.
LFC versus Dagenham would still be 11 v 11..........the difference in available quality and class decides things 99% of the time.

Hell, we'd probably have the reserves out and they'd score an OG in the last minute knowing us. ;)
 

lancashirelad

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The way people go on about City and Chelsea you'd think that their untold billions give them the ability to put out more than eleven men at a time.

Of course we can compete, given time.
Its going to be interesting to see what the FFP rules do to those two, my guess and pessimism however suggests NOWT!
 

Lucas

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And yet there is a huge danger with large investing owners that they get bored with they toy and cut off funds a la Malaga. At the end of the day, i'd rather have a Liverpool Football Club to support than see it go into administration and shut down.
 

DEVGRU

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They have a strong advantage, I agree.

But it still is 11 v 11.

That Rafa got with four points of the title while spending very little shows what can be achieved.
We were so close...those 2 draws really cost us a chance in the 2nd half of the season...

But seriously, when city are spending the sort of cash they have and Chelsea have the sort of squad they have, the odds are seriously stacked against us...and what Rafa built took time and money..something we seem to lack now.

And yet there is a huge danger with large investing owners that they get bored with they toy and cut off funds a la Malaga. At the end of the day, i'd rather have a Liverpool Football Club to support than see it go into administration and shut down.
Hear hear.
 

liveforthereds

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The Real Reality is this, the team can only perfore the job if the are given the right tools, The Manager can only work with what he has got and what he is aloud to do by those who run the club.

Previous Owners from Moores to H&G have not given the club the right tools to the playing side, yes money was spent but at the same time the owners forced managers to balance the books by forcing them to sell the better players in the team. Some may say thats unfair on Moores but the truth is other than CL 2005 and a few trophys before we never realy came close to winning the Title under him. H&G nearly ripped the club apart and if it had not been for possably the best manager we have had not to win a Title it may have been worst. Some on here have said that it's not the tactics but the playing staff that dictates where you finish well I disagree, Rafa showed that tactics do play apart.

Now to the current owners yes they have made mistakes but one thing is for sure they are trying to puyt the club back together while at the same time trying to give their choice of manager the best they can, It is going to take time, is the current team worst than Everton's squad hell no it's better, is are squard worst than WBA no it's not but they have a manger that's working wonders with what he has and is employing his tactics very well. It's going to take time, the club was in a mess both on and off the field when they took over, there will be up's and down's, We just need to have faith in the future Rogers may p[rove he is the right man in time, we have waited a long time for a title and we will have to wait a bit longer but seeing what Henry and Co are doing off the field should eventually fillter down to the playing side. The club nearly went bust in it's chase of the title that must never be aloud to happen again.
 

DEVGRU

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It doesn't help we are signed on with a brand that has a poor world wide retail network and designs ugly kits and training gear.
 

Sine

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If you remember what happened after Dunkirk, we were rushing to prepare for the german invasion and did everything possible to ensure we sent no more hurricanes and spitfires back across the channel to be shot down. We had to build up our numbers and needed to defend England.

And that decision was proven correct when the shit hit the fan several weeks later.



I dance to disco cause I don't like rock.
When Romans were plundering Europe there was no Dunkirk, it was an open field and few trees.

But I understand what you mean - Dunkirk was a failure that ultimately was allowed by the Western countries.

What we need is Tobruk... every game and we'll be fine occasionally losing to a German team, but there's no fear of that at the moment.
 

DEVGRU

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When Romans were plundering Europe there was no Dunkirk, it was an open field and few trees.

But I understand what you mean - Dunkirk was a failure that ultimately was allowed by the Western countries.

What we need is Tobruk... every game and we'll be fine occasionally losing to a German team, but there's no fear of that at the moment.
Tobruk..I remember it well...fear is not beyond me I say old chap.Fear is not beyond me.
 

lancashirelad

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I have finally come to terms with where we are as a club, a mid table team.

Took me a long time this did, we can still hold our own against the best no doubt in one off games but if you try to shed the obvious bias that grips every fan, it is pretty obvious.

Brendan rodgers for me has a bit of a poisoned chalice at the minute. A huge expectant fan base expecting us perform. The reality is the guy has to play kids (talented though) in most games because we just dont have a team capable of competing at the top level anymore. Look at the table, it never lies. Tactics for all they are worth in my opinion always have less of an impact then player quality.

I only hope people take this into reflection when considering our fortunes, their is a host of reasons why we have ended up in this position and it is gonna be a hard slug out of it too. All I ever hear is excuses, hard luck stories and sheer bias, I do it myself.... One positive though, wins do seem all the more sweeter nowadays.


Chance to get a few points before January me thinks.