The Unreliable Rumours Thread

redbj

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Found this tidbit amusing:

http://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/3743215/transfer-talk-leipzig-mull-future-of-liverpool-target-timo-werner

18.23 GMT: Neil Warnock is fuming. He thought Nathaniel Clyne was heading to Cardiff but the Liverpool man eventually moved on loan to Bournemouth. "I'm disappointed with Nathaniel Clyne and Liverpool. To see on TV he's gone to Bournemouth when I've been promised he's my player is for me a disgrace and a lack of class," Warnock said. Ouch.
I hope we issue a forthright apology and compensate for their administration expenses.....

It’s not a nice feeling to think you are getting something then have the rug pulled from under your feet....

Trust me I know, I sat down to watch a Cardiff city game a few months ago...... I was just as livid...
 

Red over the water

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Warnock, “I’ve been promised...”

So, did you get it in writing, say, in the form of a contract? Might have been an idea. All those years of experience and he can’t grasp that basic principle.

I’m sure he has a bit of a point, and I would imagine we were prepared to let Clyne go there, but then things moved on. Bournemouth came in for Solanke for a decent sum, and they wanted Clyne too. We have a good relationship with Bournemouth, we’ve done business before, they play nice football and have a good manager at the helm.

The landscape changed Colin. I’m not in the football business but presumably it happens all the time. Stop bleating on as it’s the reality of the profession you are in. And next time you have your heart set on a deal, it might be an idea to get the contract sorted! Until then it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.
 
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redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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Warnock, “I’ve been promised...”

So, did you get it in writing, say, in the form of a contract? Might have been an idea. All those years of experience and he can’t grasp that basic principle.

I’m sure he has a bit of a point, and I would imagine we were prepared to let Clyne go there, but then things moved on. Bournemouth came in for Solanke for a decent sum, and they wanted Clyne too. We have a good relationship with Bournemouth, we’ve done business before, they play nice football and have a good manager at the helm.

The landscape changed Colin. I’m not in the football business but presumably it happens all the time. Stop bleating on as it’s the reality of the profession you are in. And next time you have your heart set on a deal, it might be an idea to get the contract sorted! Until then it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

A mans/woman is only as good as his word in business. Yep, you can hide behind reems of fineprint, but you say something , you do it.

If -IF- he was promised, despite it being warnick, I identify with his anger
 

Red over the water

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I doubt he would be speaking out unless he felt he was promised something, so I can identify with his frustration too.

I generally agree with your point about how to do business and it’s how I like to act if at all possible, but given the world Warnock works, I think he sounds a bit naive.

Players are coming and going all the time and there’s enormous amounts of uncertainty in the whole business. Presumably at any given time managers like Warnock are in conversations about several possible players, both in and out, but nothing is done until it’s done.

Not that I know Cardiff’s business, or Warnock’s dealings at all of his clubs over the years, but I would imagine numerous deals that were on the cusp ended up falling through. Maybe over the years Warnock changed his mind from time to time, or he got a better offer either for himself or on another player, or maybe the player did all of the above, or maybe any other number of circumstances shifted en route. It all seems murky to the casual observer, but it is very much a world where nothing is done until it’s done.
 

JibJab

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I find it hard to believe that Edwards flat out lied to Warnock. If he did, I agree that is questionable ethically.

But perhaps if so, Clyne was more inclined to go to Bournemouth once that opportunity became available. What do you do in that instance? Do you force him to go somewhere he doesn't want to go simply because Neil Warnock feels entitled to him? You'd rather he got coaching from Howe, anyway.

The first priority of Edwards and Klopp should always to put their players in a position to succeed.
 

PeachesEnRegalia

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Warnock is a serial fucking moaner. I don’t believe a word of this shite. He’s always having a whinge just to get attention. Ignore him. The twat.
 

ILLOK

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A mans/woman is only as good as his word in business. Yep, you can hide behind reems of fineprint, but you say something , you do it.

If -IF- he was promised, despite it being warnick, I identify with his anger
Clyne is entitled to change his mind, why would he turn down a better offer and spend the next 5 months playing for an inferior team and manager? Presumably the Bournemouth offer came after the Cardiff one and the choice there is not a difficult one.

Would Warnock have followed through on taking the Cardiff job if Everton or Watford had offered him a big contract before the ink was dry on his deal with Cardiff? Of course not, he's coming across as a prat, again. This is a guy who has had 17 different managerial jobs and played for 8 different clubs. This is a guy who (correctly) said Diouf was worse than a sewer rat, said he hoped he'd go abroad and never come back and called him a nasty person, yet ended up signing him for Leeds later on. What's his word worth?

The only reason I see for him to be peeved is if the new deal with Bournemouth was finalised and nobody picked up the phone to call Warnock to let him know, and he actually did find out on tv. That's a bit spineless and rude, though given who is on the receiving end it's difficult to be too sympathetic. Why would he expect other clubs to show him the greatest respect when he uses to the media to take potshots at other players and managers? Which is what has happened once again and is conveniently timed to take the heat off an embarrassing loss.
 
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redbj

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Clyne is entitled to change his mind, why would he turn down a better offer and spend the next 5 months playing for an inferior team and manager? Presumably the Bournemouth offer came after the Cardiff one and the choice there is not a difficult one.

Would Warnock have followed through on taking the Cardiff job if Everton or Watford had offered him a big contract before the ink was dry on his deal with Cardiff? Of course not, he's coming across as a prat, again. This is a guy who has had 17 different managerial jobs and played for 8 different clubs. This is a guy who (correctly) said Diouf was worse than a sewer rat, said he hoped he'd go abroad and never come back and called him a nasty person, yet ended up signing him for Leeds later on. What's his word worth?

The only reason I see for him to be peeved is if the new deal with Bournemouth was finalised and nobody picked up the phone to call Warnock to let him know, and he actually did find out on tv. That's a bit spineless and rude, though given who is on the receiving end it's difficult to be too sympathetic. Why would he expect other clubs to show him the greatest respect when he uses to the media to take potshots at other players and managers? Which is what has happened once again and is conveniently timed to take the heat off an embarrassing loss.

If you give someone your word, then your word has been given. No ifs, buts or maybes.

That’s just business.

You don’t give your word lightly. That’s the point. You don’t give your word if someone can break it for you.you do a deal and you can make 5 percent more elsewhere, bad luck.


It’s not a universal law, it’s just how I am.




I actually suspect warnick is full of shit. Just making a point.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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If you give someone your word, then your word has been given. No ifs, buts or maybes.

That’s just business.

You don’t give your word lightly. That’s the point. You don’t give your word if someone can break it for you.you do a deal and you can make 5 percent more elsewhere, bad luck.


It’s not a universal law, it’s just how I am.




I actually suspect warnick is full of shit. Just making a point.
I expect the only people that will have told Warnock that he'd have Clyne would be the people Cardiff had negotiating with our people. It's not like Warnock would have been negotiating himself with us. In the quote he never actually says it's Liverpool that told him he'd have Clyne.
 

ILLOK

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If you give someone your word, then your word has been given. No ifs, buts or maybes.

That’s just business.

You don’t give your word lightly. That’s the point. You don’t give your word if someone can break it for you.you do a deal and you can make 5 percent more elsewhere, bad luck.


It’s not a universal law, it’s just how I am.




I actually suspect warnick is full of shit. Just making a point.
There is no word to give on our part, football transfers are auctions. We are fully entitled to accept other offers after accepting the Cardiff one. I highly doubt we 'promised' Cardiff we would not entertain any other offers, that makes no sense whatsoever for us.

If he wants to be pissed off with Clyne then so be it but he's been in the game long enough to know that players will do what's best for their career. Very few people could argue against the fact that the Bournemouth move was a better one. Clyne has missed 18 months of football through injury and is coming into his prime years, to begrudge him doing what is in his best interests is incredibly petty. I'm sure Warnock would have swerved Clyne if Guardiola or Pochettino said Walker or Trippier were available for loan. It's the nature of the business.
 
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AussieLad

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I find it hard to believe that Edwards flat out lied to Warnock. If he did, I agree that is questionable ethically.

But perhaps if so, Clyne was more inclined to go to Bournemouth once that opportunity became available. What do you do in that instance? Do you force him to go somewhere he doesn't want to go simply because Neil Warnock feels entitled to him? You'd rather he got coaching from Howe, anyway.

The first priority of Edwards and Klopp should always to put their players in a position to succeed.
The thing is, if there had been an agreement for Clyne to go to Cardiff as Warnock claims, then after the change in plans with Bournemouth, a simple phone call to Cardiff to tell them is not to much to expect and more so, is just common courtesy
 

Clive

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Cardiff just got knocked out of the cup by a league one side. Might be a reason why Colin finds having a pop at Liverpool beneficial right now.
Yep Warthog is an old hand at this game and not worth another glance really. Has entertainment value mind you.
 

sportbilly1966

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If you give someone your word, then your word has been given. No ifs, buts or maybes.

That’s just business.

You don’t give your word lightly. That’s the point. You don’t give your word if someone can break it for you.you do a deal and you can make 5 percent more elsewhere, bad luck.


It’s not a universal law, it’s just how I am.




I actually suspect warnick is full of shit. Just making a point.
Thankfully Clyne decides who he wants to play for, the club cant force him to go to Cardiff so seems a better offer came up at Bournemouth and he took it.

Thats all that needs to be said.
 

redbj

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Thankfully Clyne decides who he wants to play for, the club cant force him to go to Cardiff so seems a better offer came up at Bournemouth and he took it.

Thats all that needs to be said.

Couldn’t agree more....

That said....IF .....IF. .....Clyne gave warnock his word.........

at least to the point a phone call could have been made out of courtesy.

I’m not trying to make a big deal out of this, but I don’t think my point is being understood.

On the assumption that someone gave warnock their word ( and I doubt that even happened) then they should have stuck to it or not given it if they weren’t in a position to honour it........at the very minimum, a courtesy call personally could have been made.

It’s got nothing to do with the guy your dealing with, but everything to do with who you are as a person to deal with.

I agree though, it’s better he went to Bournemouth, it’s his right to choose and warnock was probably deflecting criticism.

All of which doesn’t change my point, which was in response to someone saying if it isn’t in writing, too bad, so sad, type of thing........to which I simply said, your word is important in business...( in life too)......once you give it, you should follow through ( opinion), or, in the most extreme examples of contradicting your word, the least you can do is tell that person yourself........... that’s all, nothing to see here
 

jgw_geneseo

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I don't think any word was given. 'Yup, those terms look acceptable. If clyne agrees we will get it sorted.'

Clyne signs elsewhere. You know the rest.
 

Quicksand

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Couldn’t agree more....

That said....IF .....IF. .....Clyne gave warnock his word.........

at least to the point a phone call could have been made out of courtesy.

I’m not trying to make a big deal out of this, but I don’t think my point is being understood.

On the assumption that someone gave warnock their word ( and I doubt that even happened) then they should have stuck to it or not given it if they weren’t in a position to honour it........at the very minimum, a courtesy call personally could have been made.

It’s got nothing to do with the guy your dealing with, but everything to do with who you are as a person to deal with.

I agree though, it’s better he went to Bournemouth, it’s his right to choose and warnock was probably deflecting criticism.

All of which doesn’t change my point, which was in response to someone saying if it isn’t in writing, too bad, so sad, type of thing........to which I simply said, your word is important in business...( in life too)......once you give it, you should follow through ( opinion), or, in the most extreme examples of contradicting your word, the least you can do is tell that person yourself........... that’s all, nothing to see here
I don't understand.
You said you doubt anyone gave Warnock their word.
So why would a courtesy call be necessary if no promise had been made to be broken?

I am now feeding into the Warnock thread. Apologies.
 

FilthyBloke

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Bottom line is....
Nobody really knows what was said. We can take warnocks version as fact if we wish. Personally all I want is dirty rumours.
 

Pins88

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Or Cardiff contacted us in December and there was no one else showing interest at the time.
 



mattyhurst

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I find it hard to believe that Edwards flat out lied to Warnock. If he did, I agree that is questionable ethically.
Couldn't disagree with more, the week before he was banging on about Salah for no real reason, the penalties weren't even that similar. The guy's had an issue with us for some years, from trying to assault our players during the Houllier era in a league cup tie, to the chip he still rests on his shoulder from the time that Rafa rested players for an important CL semi final and their rivals for the drop took a point (after surviving 30 shots against them). The best part was he didn't mention that he rested players at Old Trafford that season because he didn't think he could get a result.

It's always someone else with Colin, hence why this is a story instead of his team going out to relegation fodder from league 1.
 

Red over the water

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Theres a lot of nuance around “giving your word.”

Clyne is on a path to joining Cardiff on loan. Maybe Liverpool officials have said to Cardiff officials, “We will be happy to send the player on loan. He’s a good player and we like him, but he’s not playing much here, so yes, we can send him on loan.”

The Cardiff officials perhaps took that as substantive, and terms were discussed. “Yes, all that seems fine.”

Then the player gets involved. Clyne sees he is down the pecking order at Liverpool and he wants to kick start his career. It’s likely that he sees himself as better than Cardiff, but at the same time, if that’s the only gig on offer, perhaps he said, “Yes, it sounds good to me” meaning, “I’ll do half a season playing regularly in the Prem and hopefully put myself in the shop window and get a better move in summer.”

People on the Cardiff side would be well within their rights to think the deal is happening, but nothing is done until it’s done, and usually that means signing a contract.

Clyne got a better offer and that was that. And from the perspective of Liverpool, his loan deal to Bournemouth may have helped to smooth the Solanke deal, but we don’t know that.

I would suggest that Clyne is perhaps guilty of bad manners, at the worst. If he played for Warnock before he should have phoned him and said, “Sorry boss, another offer has come in and I’m going to take it.” Warnock would have been disappointed, but he would have appreciated the contact.

As it turned out, Warnock was sitting there thinking something was going to happen, it didn’t, he’s disappointed, he has a chip on his shoulder about some aspects of the game, and has some form for having a pop at Liverpool too; then factor in their cup exit and likely struggle to stay in the Premier League, and he’s just made a statement in frustration. That’s how I see it.

But anyway, I agree with the view that we need a few player rumours to talk about to move it away from ‘The Art of The Deal’ (!)

Werner spotted at John Lennon airport? Did I hear that somewhere?
 
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Walshy07

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2 rumours I've just read about:

1. Omur to us.

2. Coutinho to United.

That's not going to happen surely?
Do United have £150m to spend on another midfielder they dont really need?
Once they leave us I couldnt give a fuck where they end up.