The Unreliable Rumours Thread

Iluvatar

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Don't forget Ings and Ward as well. We'll end up getting about £80m for Kent, Ings, Solanke, Ward and Clyne.
Total forgot about Ings, its fantastic business. I like the fact that half of them are youth players who we’ve turned a good profit on.
 

Koon

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How exactly? If it is that much of a no brainer with him being that much of a liability, then who would take him?
Lallana is a good player for a mid table team. He could totally be a starter in many of them and I think there might be a few clubes interested. It's the same situation as Ings, for example. He barely played for Liverpool and obviously is not on our level, but he could fit elsewhere.

We have reached a very high level, I just don't think Lallana is someone we can rely on at this stage. Some mid table team might have the time to wait for him to stay fit and be fine with him missing a lot of games, but not at Liverpool.

That's only my opinion. If it were for me, I'd let go of a few more players. Klopp's mind is different, maybe he wants to trust Lallana will stay fit and back to his best ever football level, I don't know. But in my mind, players like Sturridge and Lallana are easily replaceable. They simply couldn't follow the rest of the team. Players like Gomez, Arnold, Robertson, Mané, they have become even better, but the likes of Lallana and Sturridge are the opposite, they are nowhere near their best level and it's been one or two years, maybe more.

Also, imo we have 2 injury prone offensive 8/10 (Lallana and Ox). I'd be okay with having only one and then bringing someone more reliable.
 

Sweeting

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What didn't sit well with me is that he wrote about Camacho's departure, which I don't think would be a good move, I think he could be the next right back to emerge from the academy. That said, maybe Klopp wants to fast-track Hoever in that role?
There was rumour that Sporting made a substantial offer for him January that we rejected - at that point I expected to see him given some chances but he has completely dropped off the radar so I think Klopp has probably judged him as not quite good enough as an option.

Currently that would leave us with just TAA/Milner/Gomez and maybe Hoever at RB. Does look like we would need an additional full back.
 

Nikola

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There was rumour that Sporting made a substantial offer for him January that we rejected - at that point I expected to see him given some chances but he has completely dropped off the radar so I think Klopp has probably judged him as not quite good enough as an option.

Currently that would leave us with just TAA/Milner/Gomez and maybe Hoever at RB. Does look like we would need an additional full back.
Yeah, I had a feeling that he would leave since January, it's just that I was convinced it would be because he didn't want to sign an extension. It seems like he was never offered one. It's a shame, I really thought he'd be the next one to graduate from the academy (not counting Brewster here, he's basically been promoted), I thought he had all the necessary traits to be a good modern fullback. I agree, buying new fullback or even two is in order for Klopp with Moreno, Clyne and Camacho leaving. That said, a profit of 10-15 million pounds is nothing to scoff at given that Liverpool snapped him up on free from Man City, another one of Kevin Stewart variety.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Lallana was one of the first, if not the first, players who got what Klopp wanted after he arrived. I think he's actually quite a clever player, maybe he's a useful guy to have around in training, which mitigates the relatively small amount we would get for him were we to sell. I would guess that he's also a positive personality in the dressing room.

I don't think Klopp is someone who just gets rid of a player who he judges as not quite starting material... one thing all of Clyne, Ings, Ward and Solanke have in common is that they wanted to leave (mostly to pursue first-team football elsewhere), and were they to leave I'd hazard a guess that it would be similar for Kent and Camacho. Maybe Lallana up and decides he wants to leave for the same reason, which he'll then be allowed to do, but right now I don't see that happening as injuries are the main reason his opportunities have dried up.
 

Mascot88

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I think Camacho (and Curtis Jones) have been victims of circumstance to an extent, the circumstance been the title challenge and the crazy pace we’re having to go at to match city.

I think had we been scrapping with Spurs for second/third, with City out of sight, Camacho would have got a game or two. But how can Klopp drop him in at the minute?

It’s a shame for the lad, but that’s the new reality of where we are.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I think Camacho (and Curtis Jones) have been victims of circumstance to an extent, the circumstance been the title challenge and the crazy pace we’re having to go at to match city.

I think had we been scrapping with Spurs for second/third, with City out of sight, Camacho would have got a game or two. But how can Klopp drop him in at the minute?

It’s a shame for the lad, but that’s the new reality of where we are.
Along with going out the domestic cups so early.
 

redfanman

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I think Camacho (and Curtis Jones) have been victims of circumstance to an extent, the circumstance been the title challenge and the crazy pace we’re having to go at to match city.

I think had we been scrapping with Spurs for second/third, with City out of sight, Camacho would have got a game or two. But how can Klopp drop him in at the minute?

It’s a shame for the lad, but that’s the new reality of where we are.
I think without the injuries, he probably would have been allowed to leave.

Since then, Klopp has said he would only play him in games against sides carrying relatively little threat down that flank. Which indicates where Klopp thinks he is in his development.

I think it is likely he will go in the summer, but I would prefer to see him develop here.
 

AussieLad

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I think Camacho (and Curtis Jones) have been victims of circumstance to an extent, the circumstance been the title challenge and the crazy pace we’re having to go at to match city.

I think had we been scrapping with Spurs for second/third, with City out of sight, Camacho would have got a game or two. But how can Klopp drop him in at the minute?

It’s a shame for the lad, but that’s the new reality of where we are.
I don't buy into that 100%

Yes I agree that he shouldn't be thrown in as a starter, but if he is good enough then he would have been picking up minutes off the bench late in games rather than having to drop the likes of Milner or Henderson to cover at RB
 

[email protected]

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I don't buy into that 100%

Yes I agree that he shouldn't be thrown in as a starter, but if he is good enough then he would have been picking up minutes off the bench late in games rather than having to drop the likes of Milner or Henderson to cover at RB
I thinks its a case of managing the risk myself. Milner or Henderson in there are known quantities and Klopp knows what he is going to get out of them. Camacho or Curtis Jones or Woodburn, even, are just risky. Young players are going to be targeted and they might cope or they might have a made like TAA did at Old Trafford last season. That's no slight on their ability but at this point, and we have been at this point for ages given City's form, there is simply no margin for error and no real margin for unnecessary risks either.
 

Kopstar

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I thinks its a case of managing the risk myself. Milner or Henderson in there are known quantities and Klopp knows what he is going to get out of them. Camacho or Curtis Jones or Woodburn, even, are just risky. Young players are going to be targeted and they might cope or they might have a made like TAA did at Old Trafford last season. That's no slight on their ability but at this point, and we have been at this point for ages given City's form, there is simply no margin for error and no real margin for unnecessary risks either.
Pretty sure Woodburn can't even be an option from the bench in the Premier League.
 

redfanman

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I don't buy into that 100%

Yes I agree that he shouldn't be thrown in as a starter, but if he is good enough then he would have been picking up minutes off the bench late in games rather than having to drop the likes of Milner or Henderson to cover at RB
We've been picking up wins in recent games only fairly late into the game, so it's unlikely that he would get playing time based on that. Secondly, as others have mentioned, Klopp does prefer to go to his more reliable players when possible, so it's unclear quite how he fits on to the bench.
 

cynicaloldgit

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AussieLad

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If that’s the case, the author of the article hasn’t done their homework.

I wouldn't believe it, not whilst they still have the 2 window transfer ban hanging over them as if they sell him then they can't replace him except with someone already signed at the club. Same with Hazard being linked to Madrid, I can't see them agreeing to sell him unless they have the ban overturned.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I wouldn't believe it, not whilst they still have the 2 window transfer ban hanging over them as if they sell him then they can't replace him except with someone already signed at the club. Same with Hazard being linked to Madrid, I can't see them agreeing to sell him unless they have the ban overturned.
It'll almost certainly be delayed by a year meaning they'll get to make signings this summer. Both Hudson-Odoi and Hazard only have one year left on their deals and may be unwilling to extend. If they sell the two this summer they will probably still get high fees due to their profiles. That will likely help them spend big this summer so they can cope with not being able to sign anyone the next two windows. I know they'd be getting compensation for Hudson-Odoi the following summer if he stays but it won't do them much good then if they can't bring anyone in.
 

AussieLad

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It'll almost certainly be delayed by a year meaning they'll get to make signings this summer. Both Hudson-Odoi and Hazard only have one year left on their deals and may be unwilling to extend. If they sell the two this summer they will probably still get high fees due to their profiles. That will likely help them spend big this summer so they can cope with not being able to sign anyone the next two windows. I know they'd be getting compensation for Hudson-Odoi the following summer if he stays but it won't do them much good then if they can't bring anyone in.
That is the thing though, the appeal process is getting sped through to be heard asap so that they can't use the appeal process to put the ban on hold. From memory I think the appeal is due to be heard in May, which if they lose that, then the ban carries on with the possibility of having the ban extended for making a false appeal like what happened to Atletico Madrid
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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That is the thing though, the appeal process is getting sped through to be heard asap so that they can't use the appeal process to put the ban on hold. From memory I think the appeal is due to be heard in May, which if they lose that, then the ban carries on with the possibility of having the ban extended for making a false appeal like what happened to Atletico Madrid
If they don't get their way in May I think they can take it to CAS who will definitely not get it resolved before the window opens. Whilst with CAS any punishment will be delayed till they decide. Sure that's the case although we have @Kopstar around to correct me if I'm wrong.
 

SpecialK210

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I really don't get what's going on with the Clyne situation. Am I missing something? I think he is a pretty decent and reliable backup player. Don't see any reason why we should get rid of him, especially because we don't have any proper RB at the moment. Camacho is a rigth footed winger, Milner is a CM, Gomez is much better as a CB and Hoever is way too young yet. It's not like there's a really good RB backup avaiable out there.
_

About Grujic and Wilson, I get it. I think Grujic has more chances to stay, but Wilson is a tricky one. He is great with set pieces and long shots, but I don't see him briging more to his game besides that. But in truth, I haven't seen him that much. I think he could still develop, though, especially under Klopp's guidance.

Lallana is a no brainer. He can't stay fit, he plays one good game and three bad ones and we need to bring more creativity in the middle of the park. Lallana should be the one to do that, but he can't deliver on a regular basis. Out. Make space for a better and more consistent player, especially because Ox looks injury prone. We miss him a lot.

I'd also get rid of Origi, but I can see him staying next season, so fine as long as we bring another winger.

As I said before, I think we won't spend too much next season, we might look for quality instead of quantity, so a few players (namely Milner, Origi, Lovren/Matip) might stay one more season.
The thing about Lallana that needs to be remembered is that he’s English and with squads having to have a certain quota, he has value based on that alone.
 

Kopstar

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That is the thing though, the appeal process is getting sped through to be heard asap so that they can't use the appeal process to put the ban on hold. From memory I think the appeal is due to be heard in May, which if they lose that, then the ban carries on with the possibility of having the ban extended for making a false appeal like what happened to Atletico Madrid
The appeal is being heard this Thursday (it's still within FIFA at the moment). If Chelsea wish to challenge the outcome of that appeal then they'll go to CAS. Chelsea would almost certainly seek a provisional suspension of any sanction from CAS (which they'd get) whilst the process then went through their procedures. They'd then have 8 weeks to complete the process before the international transfer window opens (9 June this year). That could just be possible but it's touch and go.
 

Limiescouse

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The appeal is being heard this Thursday (it's still within FIFA at the moment). If Chelsea wish to challenge the outcome of that appeal then they'll go to CAS. Chelsea would almost certainly seek a provisional suspension of any sanction from CAS (which they'd get) whilst the process then went through their procedures. They'd then have 8 weeks to complete the process before the international transfer window opens (9 June this year). That could just be possible but it's touch and go.
You mean touch and go that they might be able to extend the appeals process out long enough to be able to purchase in this window regardless of the outcome of the decisions and appeals?
 



Kopstar

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You mean touch and go that they might be able to extend the appeals process out long enough to be able to purchase in this window regardless of the outcome of the decisions and appeals?
Yes, if I were Chelsea I think I'd try to delay as much as possible because in theory an expedited process could conclude before 9 June. Try to ensure the process was still incomplete into the window and preferably beyond 30 June otherwise they're going to stuffed.

(Assuming that a ban is still going to be enforced at the end of it all)
 

Limiescouse

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Yes, if I were Chelsea I think I'd try to delay as much as possible because in theory an expedited process could conclude before 9 June. Try to ensure the process was still incomplete into the window and preferably beyond 30 June otherwise they're going to stuffed.

(Assuming that a ban is still going to be enforced at the end of it all)
Are there many major cases that have been overturned? It seems the play book is to just play the clock out rather than trying a legit defenses that see the appeals win.
 
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Kopstar

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Are there many major cases that have been overturned? It seems the play book is to just play the clock out rather than trying a legit defenses that see the appeals win.
The majority of appeals to CAS are unsuccessful but I don't know the full details of the Chelsea ban or their defence. Presumably one of their arguments will be that the rules are vague and open to interpretation in which case the principle of contra preferentum ought to apply (that any ambiguity is resolved against the party responsible for the drafting, in this case FIFA).

If it's a question of assessing a player's status then you can see how that might be open to interpretation but also abuse. As far as I know there isn't any existing CAS jurisprudence on the specific point (it's not the most accessible database and it's also incomplete - it's why the same lawyers are often repeatedly instructed because their own case files are more extensive than the published precedents alone).
 

legalalien

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BBC gossip page:
Liverpool are considering a move for Ajax's Brazilian forward David Neres, 22, with Merseyside rivals Everton also interested. (Mirror)
West Ham are leading the race to Liverpool's English right-back Nathaniel Clyne, 28, who is currently on loan at Bournemouth. (Football Insider)