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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

RedSeven

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The other question - do we need his type of player? What kind of gap would he fill? Where would he play?
I'd rather a player like Firmino to compete for a spot in the front 3. Is there a player like Firmino or is he a 1 off?
 


Anfield rd Dreamer

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The other question - do we need his type of player? What kind of gap would he fill? Where would he play?
Always thought he was getting brought in as someone who could play;

1 instead of Firmino when Firmino needed resting.

2 sometimes off Firmino as an 8/10 hybrid in 433 against some teams that'd park the bus against us.

3 central or left in the 3 in 4231.

However since our pursuit of him we've looked at 4231 less and less going almost exclusively 433 now.

Also Mane has proven to be able to play quite well in Firmino's role and thats a fine plan for when Firmino needs resting.

As for a real offensive version of 433 against bus parkers, do we really need that option? We hardly struggled much this season it's definitely not worth having a player exclusively for that.
 

redfanman

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I hope we get our big tranfers in before PSG, Man United, R. Madrid, and Barca break the market. Especially as we’re looking at the Spanish giants making big overhauls this summer. Thankfully we have stopped making last minute overinflated panic buys under Edwards/Klopp.
Problem here is that clubs will already be expecting those clubs to break the market so the demand will already start being priced in and i think this may be part of the reason the club are being so coy about signings. They may have decided to pretty much ignore much of it this window hoping to cherry pick bargains later on.
 

redfanman

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Arguably our willingness to take on a player with a questionable knee evaporated once Oxlade went down with a smashed knee last year. I still think we may have been willing to sign Fekir and manage his minutes, even after the medical, but considering the attacking midfield overall it would have been very careless to have two players costing the best part of £100M in that area of the pitch, with question marks over both. Not to mention Lallana’s injury record.
I dont think this was a factor. Ox had a somewhat chequered fitness record before joining us. I also dont think Klopp was expecting Lallana to offer much either given his fitness record at Liverpool and probably sees his availability as a bonus, and going into the deal with Fekir, they would have known he would have had some issues with his knee. What is likely to have scuppered the move was finding out the knee was worse than they had been led to belive and would have ended the move with or without the injury to Ox.
 

GaryBarlow99

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We need a Phil replacement. We don't need to do a lot in the summer but getting a player who can rotate with our front three without a drop in quality is vital for me.
 



Lynch04

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Has anyone inferred he will stay?
I struggle to find a logic to your response. Forum Members were discussing Sturridge, i gave my opinion. Re-reading my post i dont think i discussed other people inferring, summarising, presuming he will stay/leave.

Has anyone inferred he will leave?
 



SirBillShankly

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Just read we have allegedly bid £22m for the Real Sociedad CB Diego Llorente. Anybody know anything about him?
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Perhaps, though I don't think a drop in numbers for 1 season is necessarily a major worry (Bobby's were much better last year too), not unless it's due to his fitness issues. He's not the only Lyon player to suffer it either, Depay's have dropped off too.

Fekir was excellent at the Etihad and a major reason why they outplayed City there. Based on that game alone it was quite clear why Klopp was a fan.

We pulled out of the deal because of his knee but it remains to be seen if we would be interested in pursuing the deal if Lyon would accept a lower price, which I would assume they will due to him only having a year left and his less impressive season will probably mean less competition for his signature. FWIW I don't think we will.
Thing is, it's not a drop in numbers for one season, it's a return to the sort of numbers he was posting up prior to last season - essentially he had one inflated year that resulted in our attempted transfer, before returning to what appears to be his base level, which is ok but not spectacular. Last year appears to be the exception, not the norm.

It's a bit like Belotti at Torino, a couple of seasons ago he had one outstanding season and the club were batting away big offers and claiming it would take £90m+ to sign him... since then he's returned to the sort of numbers he was seeing previously and as far as I know he's not been linked to anyone major since.

The point really was that if there were secondary issues that made us drop interest in Fekir last season, now that he's returned to a less impressive level that looking at the rest of his career appears to be the standard, I don't see what it is that makes us ignore those secondary issues and go in for him again. Perhaps if he'd maintained his excellent numbers.
 

Drubas

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I'd rather a player like Firmino to compete for a spot in the front 3. Is there a player like Firmino or is he a 1 off?
Klopp uses Firminos abilities to the maximum, and he's doing well for us. But I'm not sure he is in any way a blueprint Klopp forward. I've followed Klopp since the Dortmund days, and my view of Klopp is that he wants attackers that can play across the front line. Firmino, in my mind, is not fast enough to tick all the boxes as a wide player. And compared to other Klopp forwards, he doesn't produce enough goals.

I think Klopp's dream player is someone whom is a bit quicker than Firmino, and someone whom produces more goals. If Werner wants to come, I have no doubt in my mind we'll break the bank to get him.
 



ILLOK

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Thing is, it's not a drop in numbers for one season, it's a return to the sort of numbers he was posting up prior to last season - essentially he had one inflated year that resulted in our attempted transfer
Fekir's had good seasons before - 14 goals 12 assists in 15/16, 15/13 in 14/15, compared to 23/8 in 17/18. Not inflated that much, really, especially considering penalties.

I can't agree that one impressive season led to our attempt to sign him. I would think the current number crunchers have a more rigorous process than that.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Fekir's had good seasons before - 14 goals 12 assists in 15/16, 15/13 in 14/15, compared to 23/8 in 17/18. Not inflated that much, really, especially considering penalties.

I can't agree that one impressive season led to our attempt to sign him. I would think the current number crunchers have a more rigorous process than that.
Not quite what I'm driving at. There were valid secondary reasons that made us pull the plug, even in spite of his best season to date. One assumes those secondary factors still apply, and while we might consider taking the risk anyway had he maintained that high level, the fact he didn't makes it unlikely we'll go back in. IMO, of course.
 

Drubas

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Fekir's had good seasons before - 14 goals 12 assists in 15/16, 15/13 in 14/15, compared to 23/8 in 17/18. Not inflated that much, really, especially considering penalties.

I can't agree that one impressive season led to our attempt to sign him. I would think the current number crunchers have a more rigorous process than that.
And I don't think that the goals and assists are key. The player stats in terms of dribbles, penetrating with and without the ball, is probably what caught our eyes.
 

ILLOK

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And I don't think that the goals and assists are key. The player stats in terms of dribbles, penetrating with and without the ball, is probably what caught our eyes.
Agreed, as well as his work rate. I would imagine the biggest red flag for edwards and co would be if Fekir's sprints, distance covered etc have dropped. I don't think they would be overly concerned with the goals and assists.
 

Mascot88

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Klopp uses Firminos abilities to the maximum, and he's doing well for us. But I'm not sure he is in any way a blueprint Klopp forward. I've followed Klopp since the Dortmund days, and my view of Klopp is that he wants attackers that can play across the front line. Firmino, in my mind, is not fast enough to tick all the boxes as a wide player. And compared to other Klopp forwards, he doesn't produce enough goals.

I think Klopp's dream player is someone whom is a bit quicker than Firmino, and someone whom produces more goals. If Werner wants to come, I have no doubt in my mind we'll break the bank to get him.
Opinions change though. Klopp is a different manager now than he was at Dortmund. A better one, imo.
 



Barnestormer

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What is the actual truth of the Fekir deal. Didnt we still accept the player but use the med report to downgrade the transfer price? Or is that completely wrong and we totally pulled out.
 

Barnestormer

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No one really knows what happened. Alls we can do is list possibilities then fall out over our differences in opinions
Ah oh yes, was just thinking, if we'd known that, it could colour our assessment of if there was still an interest. Although, knowing Klopp there must still be an interest in this type of player? Even though Ox was just injured and the forecast was at least a year out, couldnt see Klopp knee jerking on such a proposed expensive deal, as Fekir was, and not to have an existing strategic interest in strengthening the squad here.
 

redfanman

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What is the actual truth of the Fekir deal. Didnt we still accept the player but use the med report to downgrade the transfer price? Or is that completely wrong and we totally pulled out.
I think it was Rory Smith and Simon Hughes who said that following the 2nd medical report we just ended our interest, and did not make any effort to renegotiate the price, and that the media interest after that point was largely due to Lyon trying to keep the deal going after that point but we were no longer interested. That to me suggests that the club feel they were led up the garden path in the run up to the medical, making it harder to see it happening now.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Ah oh yes, was just thinking, if we'd known that, it could colour our assessment of if there was still an interest. Although, knowing Klopp there must still be an interest in this type of player? Even though Ox was just injured and the forecast was at least a year out, couldnt see Klopp knee jerking on such a proposed expensive deal, as Fekir was, and not to have an existing strategic interest in strengthening the squad here.
Think it was clear at the start of the season he was starting to evolve us into 4231 but he reigned back on those plans as this side just works so much better in 433.

In 4231 you would have had 2 out of Fabinho, Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner in the middle 2 with Fabinho and Milner also adding cover for defence and Keita an option in the 3.

Up top it would have been Salah backed up by Sturridge and one of Solanke or Origi till Brewster was recovered.

In the attacking middle 3 Firmino, Mane, Ox and Fekir competing for 3 starts with Shaqiri, Lallana and sometimes Keita offering cover seems like a real good idea. Fekir would have been an option central or on the left in that formation.

In 433 I don't think we really need that player anymore except to cover Firmino (which Mane has since shown he can provide) and occasionally to go for a really attacking 8 or 10 instead of an 8 in the midfield 3. (Something I'm really not sure we need to do much.)
 



Prolix

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Agreed, as well as his work rate. I would imagine the biggest red flag for edwards and co would be if Fekir's sprints, distance covered etc have dropped. I don't think they would be overly concerned with the goals and assists.
Came here to say this. As of a year ago he was a pressing monster like Firmino (and wasn't the suggestion that Fekir would often play in the 'Bobby role'?).
 
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Limiescouse

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And I don't think that the goals and assists are key. The player stats in terms of dribbles, penetrating with and without the ball, is probably what caught our eyes.
The NYT piece on our analytics had a section about their identification of Bobby as a player who made an absurd number of chances for his team mates (or things that should have been a chance had the other player been on the ball). In a well functioning side like we have now, that is very evident, but their analysis seemed to identify it before it was so obvious to the eye. I suspect they have seen something similar in Fekir and it certainly jives with the inside feeling from Lyon about him. There was long a feeling at Lyon that they were fine to let Lacazette go, because it was Fekir who made him look good anyway. It is then no coincidence that a lot of the initial interest in Lacazette faded around the time Fekir first hurt his knee.
 
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Drubas

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Fekir is so last year.

Felipe Anderson for me. Not that we've been linked with anyone since the Virgil debacle so it could be a long silly season.
He is good going forward, but essentially the whole team has to be balanced to cover his defending. I don't see him having the intensity nor the work rate. Have we been linked with him?
 

ILLOK

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He is good going forward, but essentially the whole team has to be balanced to cover his defending. I don't see him having the intensity nor the work rate. Have we been linked with him?
Anderson?

I've barely watched West Ham this season but at Anfield he was their hardest working player by an absolute mile. It surprised me as I'd heard he was weak and lazy, yet he looked a bit like their version of Mane.
 

Limiescouse

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He is good going forward, but essentially the whole team has to be balanced to cover his defending. I don't see him having the intensity nor the work rate. Have we been linked with him?
I find that an interesting comment. I will concede I didnt watch much West Ham this year, but the first game of the season against us I was really impressed by how much work he put in. West Ham had almost none of the ball and so he was irrelevant as an attacking entity, but I was really impressed with the shift he put in regardless. I have seen other people comment similarly...that he looks like a player who believes in hard work creating your luck, so Im surprised to see anyone say that about him.