• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

The Unreliable Rumours Thread



Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
8,587
If you haven't seen it yet, here's a good BBC read on the age of some PL squads, suggesting where transfers need to fill gaps and clubs strategies. LFC look very well set:



Also clearly shows why Lovren is potentially available - he is borderline into the top left segment which is where you don't want to be.
 

Chewbazza

True Believer
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
9,151
As we are now the champions of Europe and a club going places we are now an extremely attractive proposition for all players. We're shopping in Harrods these days, not Lidl. We should to be aiming for the top players to improve us.
You mean top players like Robertson from Hull, Van Dijk and Mané from Southampton, Wijnaldum from Newcastle, Firmino from Hoffenheim?

That sort of thing?
 
Last edited:

Red over the water

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,287
It was a good article in the Beeb. The graphic laid it out nice and clear, and we are in a very good position, with the bulk of our squad in peak years, and even at the start of peak years, and some very good first team lads already in the side but who aren’t near their peak years yet.

I would expect us to buy more players for the bottom section, and/or bring them through, as well as perhaps one or two peak age players to compete right now. We are a well managed club and long may it continue.
 

melbournered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
327
If you haven't seen it yet, here's a good BBC read on the age of some PL squads, suggesting where transfers need to fill gaps and clubs strategies. LFC look very well set:



So practically all of our first eleven are at their peak. I wonder though, what the strategy is (if not for this window), for securing quality talent aged from say 21-24, to continue our terrific progress.
 



Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,259
It's based on minutes played in the season - on the bottom axis. Facts, not some journos fantasy team!

As Sweeting says, really makes it obvious why Lovren is likely to be replaced by a younger model. The club's transfer strategy at a glance. Take the time to look at the full article as the other clubs featured are a mess in comparison.
On the flipside, he played 985' of 1710' or 57.6% of available minutes when not injured - this is itself underplaying it because he had a number of injuries through the season which always require a lead-in time to getting full minutes...usually at least a match warming the bench. But even that 57% is a sign he is still valued highly by the manager.

Matip on the other hand played 54.9% of the minutes available to him when not injured.

You may see what I am doing here. Statistics can be used in any way to support one's argument, or reject someone else's. I personally think its exceedingly unfair to suggest Lovren is not rated by Klopp. You only need to look at how he achieved those minutes as well. Had the pelvis injury, then came back in after 1 game on the bench, played 3 full 90 minute games, must have had a minor injury because he didnt even make the squad against Arsenal, then on the bench vs Fulham (clearly eased back into it) then full 90 minutes against Watford, then again not even in the squad for 3 straight games before playing 5 90 minute games on the bounce. Nobody goes in and out of the team during a period of injury and gets full 90 minutes when available if they aren't in the manager's plans. The constant talk about Degsy being 4th choice is laughable. Not to the manager he isn't.

Now to the injury record. Thats a different story. He had a few soft tissue injuries this season gone. And my above stats dont take into account his injuries. Its fair for all fans to question, at his age, whether this injury pattern will continue and whether we get rid now when his market value is still good. If the answer is to sell, then I'm afraid it's madness to consider signing a replacement to play as 4th choice, because Lovren isn't 4th choice.

I don't disagree that his injuries are a concern for me (like Gomez's considering his age), but the evidence strictly from game time strongly suggest he is valued by the manager when he's available.
 

SirBillShankly

Joe and Holly's Dad
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
10,202
You mean top players like Robertson from Hull, Van Dijk and Mané from Southampton, Wijnaldum from Newcastle, Firmino from Hoffenheim?

That sort of thing?
Yep, and all have turned out to be diamonds.If we can keep finding them all's good.
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,259
Don't want to derail the thread but Lovrens game time was influenced by injuries to those round him. If Gomez hadn't broken his leg, Lovren would have seen far fewer minutes. Don't really care for a % when available stat - there were times when he was desperately needed but unavailable despite not playing recently. Then he went off to play for Croatia. Not what you want from a backup. Klopp likes machines. And his availability is only going to get worse as he ages.

Whether Klopp rates him or not, the graphic does show that his peak years aren't ahead of him and we are clearly building a squad based on players at, or nearing, their peak.

Transfer strategy is not just buying players either. We've shown a willingness to cash in on players if we are offered more than we think they're worth. IF we get a £25m offer Im beginning to think we'd bite their hand off!
It works both ways though. Gomez in all probability wouldn't have kept either Matip or Lovren out of the starting lineup on match day 1 if either were fit. That's the beauty of Klopp's reward system. Doesn't matter what name is on the back of your shirt, you get a chance to retain your spot if you perform. Gomez did it until his injury. Lovren did it. So did Matip. All stood strong when called upon.

Agree with everything else you say. His injury record really isn't going to get better.
 



JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
816
I believe the Fekir links are legit - obviously Klopp was intrigued by his talent or else we wouldn't have bothered pursuing him last year. The big stumbling block was the fee - with any potential for reinjury influencing our valuation of Fekir. So with Lyon pressured to sell him with only a year left on his contract, I could see them reducing his fee to a degree that would persuade us to seal a deal.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,066
I believe the Fekir links are legit - obviously Klopp was intrigued by his talent or else we wouldn't have bothered pursuing him last year. The big stumbling block was the fee - with any potential for reinjury influencing our valuation of Fekir. So with Lyon pressured to sell him with only a year left on his contract, I could see them reducing his fee to a degree that would persuade us to seal a deal.
I just get the feeling 'we' (LFC) just can not be bothered going through the Aulas circus again. The only 'legit' link was the one I wrote about before which was on about 50 million. Btw it appears Aulas on his annual ego trip.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
3,858
I think targeting players from lower league teams and turning them into league winners would be the perfect move for our club. Colchester United's Kane Vincent-Young has caught a few eyes for his double full-backedness and barrellness. 23 and cheap. Only needs to cost us £2.6 m and we break their club record.
Back to the good old days of Blackpool, Scunthorpe and Chester.

 
Last edited:



i_still_miss_fowler

Open Your Eyes Morty!
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
7,169
On the flipside, he played 985' of 1710' or 57.6% of available minutes when not injured - this is itself underplaying it because he had a number of injuries through the season which always require a lead-in time to getting full minutes...usually at least a match warming the bench. But even that 57% is a sign he is still valued highly by the manager.

Matip on the other hand played 54.9% of the minutes available to him when not injured.

You may see what I am doing here. Statistics can be used in any way to support one's argument, or reject someone else's. I personally think its exceedingly unfair to suggest Lovren is not rated by Klopp. You only need to look at how he achieved those minutes as well. Had the pelvis injury, then came back in after 1 game on the bench, played 3 full 90 minute games, must have had a minor injury because he didnt even make the squad against Arsenal, then on the bench vs Fulham (clearly eased back into it) then full 90 minutes against Watford, then again not even in the squad for 3 straight games before playing 5 90 minute games on the bounce. Nobody goes in and out of the team during a period of injury and gets full 90 minutes when available if they aren't in the manager's plans. The constant talk about Degsy being 4th choice is laughable. Not to the manager he isn't.

Now to the injury record. Thats a different story. He had a few soft tissue injuries this season gone. And my above stats dont take into account his injuries. Its fair for all fans to question, at his age, whether this injury pattern will continue and whether we get rid now when his market value is still good. If the answer is to sell, then I'm afraid it's madness to consider signing a replacement to play as 4th choice, because Lovren isn't 4th choice.

I don't disagree that his injuries are a concern for me (like Gomez's considering his age), but the evidence strictly from game time strongly suggest he is valued by the manager when he's available.
Not sure your matches support your arguement.

The reason that Lovren played 5 games on the bounce was that both Gomez and Matip were injured at the same time (and so was VvD for some of them). He was either the only partner for VvD or the the only fit center back in some games. It was the period that Fabinho was forced to play in that position.

Because every one was injured at the time, for me it does not indicate he is not 4th choice.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,066
Not sure your matches support your arguement.

The reason that Lovren played 5 games on the bounce was that both Gomez and Matip were injured at the same time (and so was VvD for some of them). He was either the only partner for VvD or the the only fit center back in some games. It was the period that Fabinho was forced to play in that position.

Because every one was injured at the time, for me it does not indicate he is not 4th choice.
In that scenario he became 1st choice. lol
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,259
Not sure your matches support your arguement.

The reason that Lovren played 5 games on the bounce was that both Gomez and Matip were injured at the same time (and so was VvD for some of them). He was either the only partner for VvD or the the only fit center back in some games. It was the period that Fabinho was forced to play in that position.

Because every one was injured at the time, for me it does not indicate he is not 4th choice.
I'm not sure you can be further from the truth.

Games after Lovren's full return from pelvic injury with his mins:

Manchester City - 90'
Huddersfield - 90'
Cardiff - 90'
Arsenal - minor injury confirmed by J. Pearce
Fulham - on bench following injury
Watford - 90'
Everton - concussion
Burnley - concussion
Bournemouth - concussion
United - 90'
Wolves - 90'
Newcastle - 90'
Arsenal - 90'
City - 90'

He had his hamstring injury the FA Cup tie straight after City.

Gomez got injured against Burnley (playing at RB) - that's 8 match days after Lovren returned from his pelvic injury. From Lovren's pelvic injury return to Gomez's injury, the two were available for 4 games together and Lovren took CB in all of them. The only time Gomez played CB was when Lovren was injured. For 2 of those games Gomez played RB, then was on the bench for 1 match , didn't make the bench against Watford, then played 90' at CB against Arsenal, Fulham, Everton, Burnley when Lovren was injured. Yes, a fit Lovren played CB ahead of a fit Gomez.

As for Matip, apart from the 2 games he missed at the start of the season, he was fit until United in December when he fractured his collarbone. Lovren effectively kept Matip out of the starting 11 when both were fit, and Gomez shifted out to RB. That is fact.

It's a great reflection on our squad that we are even debating who our best partner is for VVD.
 
Last edited:

i_still_miss_fowler

Open Your Eyes Morty!
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
7,169
Correct me if I am wrong but Matip and Gomez were injured for

United - 90'
Wolves - 90'
Newcastle - 90'
Arsenal - 90'
City - 90'

ie the 5 games on the bounce you mentioned. Also Gomez starting RB (over TAA) is less about him second to Lovren. More about Klopp wanting a more defensive fullback in those games.
 



Kopstar

★★★★★★
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
13,923
I'm not sure you can be further from the truth.

Games after Lovren's full return from pelvic injury with his mins:

Manchester City - 90'
Huddersfield - 90'
Cardiff - 90'
Arsenal - minor injury confirmed by J. Pearce
Fulham - on bench following injury
Watford - 90'
Everton - concussion
Burnley - concussion
Bournemouth - concussion
United - 90'
Wolves - 90'
Newcastle - 90'
Arsenal - 90'
City - 90'

He had his hamstring injury the FA Cup tie straight after City.

Gomez got injured against Burnley (playing at RB) - that's 8 match days after Lovren returned from his pelvic injury. From Lovren's pelvic injury return to Gomez's injury, the two were available for 4 games together and Lovren took CB in all of them. The only time Gomez played CB was when Lovren was injured. For 2 of those games Gomez played RB, then was on the bench for 1 match , didn't make the bench against Watford, then played 90' at CB against Arsenal, Fulham, Everton, Burnley when Lovren was injured. Yes, a fit Lovren played CB ahead of a fit Gomez.

As for Matip, apart from the 2 games he missed at the start of the season, he was fit until United in December when he fractured his collarbone. Lovren effectively kept Matip out of the starting 11 when both were fit, and Gomez shifted out to RB. That is fact.

It's a great reflection on our squad that we are even debating who our best partner is for VVD.
Wasn’t that because Trent was injured and Gomez can play RB whereas Lovren can't?

I think by that stage Lovren was 3rd choice CB anyway. He's become 4th choice over the second half of the season due to Matip's form.
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,828
I believe the Fekir links are legit - obviously Klopp was intrigued by his talent or else we wouldn't have bothered pursuing him last year. The big stumbling block was the fee - with any potential for reinjury influencing our valuation of Fekir. So with Lyon pressured to sell him with only a year left on his contract, I could see them reducing his fee to a degree that would persuade us to seal a deal.
The fee wasn't an issue before his medical was it? But at £25m.....might be worth a punt in this transfer-inflated reality.
 

FGred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
3,303
I just get the feeling 'we' (LFC) just can not be bothered going through the Aulas circus again. The only 'legit' link was the one I wrote about before which was on about 50 million. Btw it appears Aulas on his annual ego trip.
I agree with you he is a right awkward beggar we will never manage to buy any player from Lyon as long as he is in charge unless Fekir can wait another year and we’ll get him for free
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,259
Correct me if I am wrong but Matip and Gomez were injured for

United - 90'
Wolves - 90'
Newcastle - 90'
Arsenal - 90'
City - 90'

ie the 5 games on the bounce you mentioned. Also Gomez starting RB (over TAA) is less about him second to Lovren. More about Klopp wanting a more defensive fullback in those games.
Yep. They were. Depending on whether you consider if Lovren was fit enough against Fulham after his return from injury, he played maximum minutes when fit, at CB, between returning from his pelvis injury and going down with his hamstring injury. That's 4 games where Klopp chose Degsy over both Gomez and Matip at CB, and 5 games where Lovren had no competition.

Klopp brought Lovren in cold turkey coming back from a two month injury, to play City, and shifted Gomez wide, after Gomez started the season conceding 3 goals in 7 games at CB. I guess if Klopp makes that unforced change but doesn't trust Lovren then he's a little bit bonkers right?
 
Last edited:

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,066
I agree with he is a right awkward beggar we will never manage to buy any player from Lyon as long as he is in charge unless Fekir can wait another year and we’ll get him for free
I've seen some OL fans talk of a swap Lovren for Fékir. I think that would please a few on here. Only fan comments though.
 



JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
816
The fee wasn't an issue before his medical was it? But at £25m.....might be worth a punt in this transfer-inflated reality.
I think they had an agreement on the fee before the medical. I think issue was in terms of Liverpool not wanting to pay 54M for a player with those kinds of injury concerns. I think that if fee comes down significantly - which it would anyway because of his contract situation - I could see Liverpool weighing the reward more favorably than the reduced risk of a cheaper fee.
 
Last edited: