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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

PeachesEnRegalia

No Offense, @Maria....
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Buying players is not the only way to get better. Real Madrid didn’t buy a soul for years and won three European Cups on the spin.
Sure, that's a fair say. I just feel like we have just 2-3 gaps in the squad, and at least one of them isn't going to be filled from the U23s (LB cover).'

I'm not on here complaining that we're going to be shit, but we're SOOOOO close to having a flawless squad, just feels like a missed opportunity.


Still, if I'm wrong and we win the league next season, I'll happily come back here and eat my own arse.
 


rab

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It's a weird window all round. There's two international tournaments, three if you count the Nations League and we know that these impact the speed of things. The ACON is finishing less than three weeks before the Premier League window shuts.

The big big moves that have been a while in the making like Hazard and Griezmann have gone ahead as thought but there's a lot of big name players like Pogba, Neymar, Coutinho, Bale, Icardi, Eriksen and Dembele whose futures are in limbo with no signs of immediate resolution.

Then you have a host of players that were expected to move that haven't. The likes of Fernandes, Pepe, Fekir and Zaha have all been subject to a lot of interest but no one seems to have got close to getting those deals done. Add in the likes of Neres, Everton, Ziyech, Depay, Bergwijn, Chukwueze and Saint-Maximin who have all been strongly linked with moves but remain where they are (and that's just wide forward types linked with us at some point) and there's a lot that potentially could happen but seems to be stalling.

Then there's the clear outs to come at Barca and Real as a result of their spending too. There will be deals to be done but bar a few big deals at the top end that were done early, the Premier League seems relatively calm by usual standards and the upper middle end of the market has yet to really get moving.
 

Mascot88

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Sure, that's a fair say. I just feel like we have just 2-3 gaps in the squad, and at least one of them isn't going to be filled from the U23s (LB cover).'

I'm not on here complaining that we're going to be shit, but we're SOOOOO close to having a flawless squad, just feels like a missed opportunity.


Still, if I'm wrong and we win the league next season, I'll happily come back here and eat my own arse.
I think we’d all love those positions (I think it’s a back up left back and a versatile attacker) recruited to.

But the problem is that there just might not be anyone available.

It’s a bit of a catch 22. If we sign a left back who knows that he isn’t going to play a lot because of Robbo and is fine with that, is that really the kind of character we want round the squad?

The irony is that fans tend to assume the more successful/better you are, the easier recruitment gets. I suspect it actually gets harder and harder.
 

Mascot88

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It's a weird window all round. There's two international tournaments, three if you count the Nations League and we know that these impact the speed of things. The ACON is finishing less than three weeks before the Premier League window shuts.

The big big moves that have been a while in the making like Hazard and Griezmann have gone ahead as thought but there's a lot of big name players like Pogba, Neymar, Coutinho, Bale, Icardi, Eriksen and Dembele whose futures are in limbo with no signs of immediate resolution.

Then you have a host of players that were expected to move that haven't. The likes of Fernandes, Pepe, Fekir and Zaha have all been subject to a lot of interest but no one seems to have got close to getting those deals done. Add in the likes of Neres, Everton, Ziyech, Depay, Bergwijn, Chukwueze and Saint-Maximin who have all been strongly linked with moves but remain where they are (and that's just wide forward types linked with us at some point) and there's a lot that potentially could happen but seems to be stalling.

Then there's the clear outs to come at Barca and Real as a result of their spending too. There will be deals to be done but bar a few big deals at the top end that were done early, the Premier League seems relatively calm by usual standards and the upper middle end of the market has yet to really get moving.
I think this is partly a function of there being so much money sloshing about the game. Time was a player moving would be fuelled by the selling club wanting the cash as well as the buying club wanting the player.

Take Zaha. Palace are turning down mental money for him, and that’s because they don’t necessarily need it. And they know that if they have to replace him they are going to have to pay stupid money too.

In couple of years we could be looking back at this window thinking LFC played a blinder in keeping out of it.
 



FilthyBloke

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I think this is partly a function of there being so much money sloshing about the game. Time was a player moving would be fuelled by the selling club wanting the cash as well as the buying club wanting the player.

Take Zaha. Palace are turning down mental money for him, and that’s because they don’t necessarily need it. And they know that if they have to replace him they are going to have to pay stupid money too.

In couple of years we could be looking back at this window thinking LFC played a blinder in keeping out of it.
This is where I stand now.
Iv not a football expert when it comes to overseas players but last year I’d never heard of Pepe and Coutinho had burned his bridges. Yet here we talking about 80m plus for them.
 

Gazmaninaus

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I’m no expert on football either but I think the difference now in our team is mental toughness. Throughout the last 20 years it’s been the mentally fragile league team that hasn’t lived up to the knock out team. Now we have a team that achieves both. We always produced amazing European night but it was backing it up at a miserable Stoke or Hull that cost us. Now it’s different. For example we beat Barca and then cruise past a league opponent three days later. That didn’t exist for years. So essentially I’m not sure we need more players this particular time.
 

legalalien

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It's a weird window all round. There's two international tournaments, three if you count the Nations League and we know that these impact the speed of things. The ACON is finishing less than three weeks before the Premier League window shuts.

The big big moves that have been a while in the making like Hazard and Griezmann have gone ahead as thought but there's a lot of big name players like Pogba, Neymar, Coutinho, Bale, Icardi, Eriksen and Dembele whose futures are in limbo with no signs of immediate resolution.

Then you have a host of players that were expected to move that haven't. The likes of Fernandes, Pepe, Fekir and Zaha have all been subject to a lot of interest but no one seems to have got close to getting those deals done. Add in the likes of Neres, Everton, Ziyech, Depay, Bergwijn, Chukwueze and Saint-Maximin who have all been strongly linked with moves but remain where they are (and that's just wide forward types linked with us at some point) and there's a lot that potentially could happen but seems to be stalling.

Then there's the clear outs to come at Barca and Real as a result of their spending too. There will be deals to be done but bar a few big deals at the top end that were done early, the Premier League seems relatively calm by usual standards and the upper middle end of the market has yet to really get moving.
I reckon most of those players will not be moving to Premier League, partly because they may not want to, but largely because the window in other European leagues stays open until September 1st or 2nd. In Italy it's August 18th, but of course England would've shut their window 9 days earlier. Bloody stupid idea. It may suit our manager and the way he likes to do business, but in general shutting yourself out of the market while the market is still open seems pretty short-sighted to me.
 

lfc.eddie

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Anyone ever considered budget? I know a lot of people would be up in arms about me talking about stringent budget, but ever thought that the owners put out a huge amount to sort us out last season, so that we don’t have to keep going into market unless one big name being sold?

It is never harder to buy/recruit when you are more successful if there are zero constraints. We can’t and won’t go breaking our banks to buy backups nor are we willing to hike everyone’s wages by doubling it, and none of those are something I would want us to do, but those are constraints which we imposed on ourselves. Hence why we are not going into this crazy market, probably wait it out and let it go back to reality. Figures bandied around these days are ridiculous.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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I simply don't believe in the line of we would struggle to find a left back.

When we last bought a left back we were seriously looking at two and neither were being eyed as guaranteed week in week out starters.

Both the targets came a little out of nowhere and would have been dirt cheap, Robertson from relegated Hull (and not even like he was talked up much in that squad like Shaqiri was when Stoke were relegated) and Chilwell from the Leicester youth team with a handful of senior appearances at the time.

Chilwell didn't come because he was even worried he wouldn't be played enough and stayed as their second choice instead.

Looking back we see what amazing choices they were. Of the Premier League left backs they are the two most best fits for the defensive responsibility and offensive delivery that Klopp needs from his full backs and both are recognised as true top class players.

Either would have happily joined this Liverpool, as we are now, knowing they'd be getting maybe 20 starts and a few sub appearances in their first season and compete for top honours. And if we got an equivalent player this summer who can cover on the right too then the amount of games they play will literally only be limited by how happy Klopp is with his performances and his fitness.

If, back then, we had been discussing what left backs were readily available to come back up Milner to stop him getting tired towards the end of the season (and replace the unreliable Moreno as first back up), and we had no links to left backs, how many would have been highlighting them two as the absolute perfect solutions for us? We might not have known but our recruitment team did.

We have the best recruitment around at the moment and just because some of us may struggle to identify names that don't quite fit doesn't mean our recruitment team wouldn't be able to pull a name from someone else's youth team or in a disappointing team in another league and that recommendation turn out to be a player who ticks all the boxes for what Klopp needs from a fullback.

I think with both full back and wide forward Klopp has identified who he wants. He's talked about them working and "maybe 1"! As always is the case with Klopp, once he has made his choice (or choices) and it's a player that may be available now or soon, he won't move on to an alternative. Klopp always prefers to find ways to cope with existing players playing different roles or giving chances to youth players whilst he patiently waits for the right guy.
 

Billy Biskix

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Anyone ever considered budget? I know a lot of people would be up in arms about me talking about stringent budget, but ever thought that the owners put out a huge amount to sort us out last season, so that we don’t have to keep going into market unless one big name being sold?

It is never harder to buy/recruit when you are more successful if there are zero constraints. We can’t and won’t go breaking our banks to buy backups nor are we willing to hike everyone’s wages by doubling it, and none of those are something I would want us to do, but those are constraints which we imposed on ourselves. Hence why we are not going into this crazy market, probably wait it out and let it go back to reality. Figures bandied around these days are ridiculous.
I agree on budget. It's obviously a factor. I expect whatever's available this summer is being used to tie down players with extended and improved contracts. For us that's a major step forward. Just keeping a very good squad together without having to worry about someone else coming in and nicking our best players. If we can pick up a cheapie LB or forward option then great but, as you say, clubs are not daft, they know the market and they know our recent reputation of doubling, trebling even quadrupling the value of players. If we can't get anyone within budget then we go with what we have and wait for the market to calm down.
 

Foldy

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Kai Havertz? Surely bollocks? Another right winger? Can play AM but with Ox back I think we have it covered. 90 million for a 20 year old. More fairy dust bullshittery! Tra la-la-la
 

redfanman

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Kai Havertz? Surely bollocks? Another right winger? Can play AM but with Ox back I think we have it covered. 90 million for a 20 year old. More fairy dust bullshittery! Tra la-la-la
I would have thought so too, but the comments last season about Sancho got me thinking whether the club would spend that large on a young player if they thought he was be one of the best generational talents around (I havent a clue whether Havertz fits that).
 



GaryBarlow99

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The issue with buying elite young talent now is that the price for any of them is insane. De Ligt, Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Havertz, Felix, Vinicious, Mbappe, Dembele, Militao, etc. Players that haven't played a huge amount of games but command massive fees.

I would love us to try and get a number of the players mentioned but I can see why we would rather get them in earlier and develop them into one of these elite talents.
 

Foldy

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The issue with buying elite young talent now is that the price for any of them is insane. De Ligt, Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Havertz, Felix, Vinicious, Mbappe, Dembele, Militao, etc. Players that haven't played a huge amount of games but command massive fees.

I would love us to try and get a number of the players mentioned but I can see why we would rather get them in earlier and develop them into one of these elite talents.
He'd want more more wages than Virgil and Salah combined.
 

Mascot88

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I simply don't believe in the line of we would struggle to find a left back.

When we last bought a left back we were seriously looking at two and neither were being eyed as guaranteed week in week out starters.

Both the targets came a little out of nowhere and would have been dirt cheap, Robertson from relegated Hull (and not even like he was talked up much in that squad like Shaqiri was when Stoke were relegated) and Chilwell from the Leicester youth team with a handful of senior appearances at the time.

Chilwell didn't come because he was even worried he wouldn't be played enough and stayed as their second choice instead.

Looking back we see what amazing choices they were. Of the Premier League left backs they are the two most best fits for the defensive responsibility and offensive delivery that Klopp needs from his full backs and both are recognised as true top class players.

Either would have happily joined this Liverpool, as we are now, knowing they'd be getting maybe 20 starts and a few sub appearances in their first season and compete for top honours. And if we got an equivalent player this summer who can cover on the right too then the amount of games they play will literally only be limited by how happy Klopp is with his performances and his fitness.

If, back then, we had been discussing what left backs were readily available to come back up Milner to stop him getting tired towards the end of the season (and replace the unreliable Moreno as first back up), and we had no links to left backs, how many would have been highlighting them two as the absolute perfect solutions for us? We might not have known but our recruitment team did.

We have the best recruitment around at the moment and just because some of us may struggle to identify names that don't quite fit doesn't mean our recruitment team wouldn't be able to pull a name from someone else's youth team or in a disappointing team in another league and that recommendation turn out to be a player who ticks all the boxes for what Klopp needs from a fullback.

I think with both full back and wide forward Klopp has identified who he wants. He's talked about them working and "maybe 1"! As always is the case with Klopp, once he has made his choice (or choices) and it's a player that may be available now or soon, he won't move on to an alternative. Klopp always prefers to find ways to cope with existing players playing different roles or giving chances to youth players whilst he patiently waits for the right guy.
Firstly, with the massive caveat the window is still open....

I know our recruitment team pulled of a minor miracle with Robbo, but it’s slightly unfair to ask them to do that again. Finding the world’s best left back for £8m shouldn’t be seen as the norm.

I think you are probably right that the recruitment lads know exactly who they want, and Klopp defo won’t compromise on his targets but the point on availability stands.

I agree completely that our recruitment department has detailed information on players we’ve never heard of.

But I think just because we can identify ideal players it doesn’t mean we can sign them. It doesn’t mean that they’ll want to be second fiddle.

People are very confident saying we can give Johnny Fulback 15, 20, 25 games but I’m not sure we can - I think Klopp will still want Robbo to start the vast majority with only the occasional rest to stop him dipping into the red. And that’s what Robbo will want too. And I’m not sure a new lad would be necessary satisfied with that either.

Sure, you can promise a new left back a certain number of games (probably not many though - the cup runs, and CL dead rubbers, and a couple of league games) but there is a world of difference between telling a player he has Alby Moreno ahead of him in the pecking order, and another saying he has the best left back in the world.

As always, if there is a lad available, keen and he fits the bill then get him in. But the club shouldn’t be criticised for there just being nobody available.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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The issue with buying elite young talent now is that the price for any of them is insane. De Ligt, Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Havertz, Felix, Vinicious, Mbappe, Dembele, Militao, etc. Players that haven't played a huge amount of games but command massive fees.

I would love us to try and get a number of the players mentioned but I can see why we would rather get them in earlier and develop them into one of these elite talents.
Yep. My guess is we think VDB and Elliott have the potential to be the next De Ligt, Sancho etc, but at a fraction of the cost.
 



Prolix

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[...]

Chilwell didn't come because he was even worried he wouldn't be played enough and stayed as their second choice instead.
[...]
Either would have happily joined this Liverpool, as we are now, knowing they'd be getting maybe 20 starts and a few sub appearances in their first season and compete for top honours.
[...]
Wait, what?

Genuinely confused whether I'm missing something here, mate. Are you implying we can promise someone like Chilwell more starts than we could two summers ago and Moreno Milner was the incumbent?
 

redfanman

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Wait, what?

Genuinely confused whether I'm missing something here, mate. Are you implying we can promise someone like Chilwell more starts than we could two summers ago and Moreno Milner was the incumbent?
Not just that. A player that turned down the opportunity to join a team that had a clear path to becoming the starting left back, would join the same one to be a back up player.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Wait, what?

Genuinely confused whether I'm missing something here, mate. Are you implying we can promise someone like Chilwell more starts than we could two summers ago and Moreno Milner was the incumbent?
Playing Devil's advocate slightly... you could say as someone with at least a season of top-flight PL football to his name, and being several years older, Robertson would have been (perhaps rightly) more confident of playing in that scenario. At the time Chilwell was 19 I think and had only had a few senior starts, so if he believed he'd find starts for us harder to come by than for Leicester, I can see that. He's an established top-flight player and England international now, though, so obviously would in himself be more confident that he would merit decent playing time.

The obvious counter is that at his current level of experience it's doubtful he'd accept being second-fiddle to Robbo, even if we guarantee him say 20 starts across all comps.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Wait, what?

Genuinely confused whether I'm missing something here, mate. Are you implying we can promise someone like Chilwell more starts than we could two summers ago and Moreno Milner was the incumbent?
Not Chilwell now. The Chilwell we tried to sign then. He rejected us, according to reports, because he believed he had more of a chance of progression there as their second choice LB over here with Milner who had just started there all season to a lot of positive talk (even though he tired during the season) and Moreno, therefore coming in to compete to become our second choice. We know it went differently in the end but that's with hindsight. That same young player at the same stage of his career chooses between Liverpool with Europe and only one LB or Leicester without Europe in the same role I don't think we get the cold shoulder.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I dont understand how someone can be so confident Chilwell would be more willing to join the current squad, than one with Moreno as our only recognised leftback.
At that point Moreno was back up to Milner as per the season that just ended. Chilwell was second choice at Leicester and more comfortable staying there and working to become their first choice (like he did) than come here and compete with Moreno to become first back up to Milner.
 

MinniMo

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Klopp knows exactly who he wants should they become available. He doesn't go out to get 'someone' to fill a position, he already has names on a team sheet he would like to have, and won't waver from that.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Firstly, with the massive caveat the window is still open....

I know our recruitment team pulled of a minor miracle with Robbo, but it’s slightly unfair to ask them to do that again. Finding the world’s best left back for £8m shouldn’t be seen as the norm.

I think you are probably right that the recruitment lads know exactly who they want, and Klopp defo won’t compromise on his targets but the point on availability stands.

I agree completely that our recruitment department has detailed information on players we’ve never heard of.

But I think just because we can identify ideal players it doesn’t mean we can sign them. It doesn’t mean that they’ll want to be second fiddle.

People are very confident saying we can give Johnny Fulback 15, 20, 25 games but I’m not sure we can - I think Klopp will still want Robbo to start the vast majority with only the occasional rest to stop him dipping into the red. And that’s what Robbo will want too. And I’m not sure a new lad would be necessary satisfied with that either.

Sure, you can promise a new left back a certain number of games (probably not many though - the cup runs, and CL dead rubbers, and a couple of league games) but there is a world of difference between telling a player he has Alby Moreno ahead of him in the pecking order, and another saying he has the best left back in the world.

As always, if there is a lad available, keen and he fits the bill then get him in. But the club shouldn’t be criticised for there just being nobody available.
First the left back/full back able to play both sides doesn't have to be as much of a success story as Robertson. We need a back up/competition and cover not a world class starter.

On playing time if Robertson continues to play as much going forward he'll eventually become injury prone. You can't keep starting a player in 50 plus games in tough leagues season after season without it having consequences. Robertson isn't playing 55-60+ games next season and we could end up with around 65 games. Trent will probably require more rest on the right due to his younger age. A player who can play both sides may end up starting as many games next season as Fabinho did this.