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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

redfanman

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Does anyone believe Max Kruse when he says he rejected Liverpool to join Fenerbahce? I am asking genuinely for discussion sake. "After speaking with players I don't regret my decision" It seems like such an odd thing for a player to say, publicly, not to mention poor character form. And in the off chance it is true, I wonder what attracted him to the Turkish League over the Prem.
More money, guaranteed playing time? It's certainly possible. Although we don't know how far the talks progressed, we may have been seeing if he was interested rather than explicitly making an offer.
 


Sweeting

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Does anyone believe Max Kruse when he says he rejected Liverpool to join Fenerbahce? I am asking genuinely for discussion sake. "After speaking with players I don't regret my decision" It seems like such an odd thing for a player to say, publicly, not to mention poor character form. And in the off chance it is true, I wonder what attracted him to the Turkish League over the Prem.
I think what is more likely is that we made some preliminary talks with his agent and neither party moved forward with it.
 

Neukolln

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More money, guaranteed playing time? It's certainly possible. Although we don't know how far the talks progressed, we may have been seeing if he was interested rather than explicitly making an offer.
He talks in that article of expressly rejecting an offer from the club. I guess I am a dinosaur, it just seems odd (to me, anyway) that a player would be so effusive in his public proclamation of rejection.
 

Cologne-Liverpool

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Does anyone believe Max Kruse when he says he rejected Liverpool to join Fenerbahce? I am asking genuinely for discussion sake. "After speaking with players I don't regret my decision" It seems like such an odd thing for a player to say, publicly, not to mention poor character form. And in the off chance it is true, I wonder what attracted him to the Turkish League over the Prem.
3 things that raise some doubts about his version of the story for me: 1)Liverpool 2)Fenerbahce 3) Max Kruse.
My guess is he might be exaggerating a bit, but who knows.
 

Zoran

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Maybe he was a potential short-term option if we didn't keep or Origi decided to move on. Doesn't seem unrealistic if these things happen, doesn't mean he doesn't rate Liverpool, but at Fenerbahce (watched them against Dinamo Zagreb last season, they were bloody poor) you'd imagine he'd be starting material.
 



Richard88

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Here's an outline of our current squad (including player ages), followed by some of my analysis of what the next signings are likely to be.

------------------------------ Alisson (26) -----------------------------------
----------------------------- Mignolet (31) -----------------------------------
----------------------------- Grabara (20) ------------------------------------

Trent (20) -------- Gomez (22) ------- Van Dijk (28) ------- Robertson (25)
Hoever (17) ------- Matip (27) -------- Lovren (30) ---------- Larouci (18)
Clyne (28) --- Van den Berg (17) ----- Phillips (22) ----------- Lewis (19)

------------------------------ Fabinho (25) -----------------------------------
----------------------------- Henderson (29) ---------------------------------
------------------------------- Grujic (23) -------------------------------------

----------------- Wijnaldum (28) ---------- Keita (24) -----------------------
-------------------- Milner (33) ------------- Ox (25) -------------------------
------------------- Lallana (31) ------------ Jones (18) ----------------------

Salah (27) ------------------- Firmino (27) ----------------------- Mané (27)
Shaqiri (27) ------------------- Origi (24) -------------------------- Kent (22)
Wilson (22) ----------------- Brewster (19) ----------------- Woodburn (19)
Elliott (16) ------------------- Duncan (18) -----------------------------------

Needless to say, looking at that the squad is quite simply in an excellent position.

Firstly, most first team players are in their prime years (with the exception of Trent and Gomez), which is perfect.

Secondly, the contractual situation is excellent too, as the next contracts to expire are all for players nearing the age of or above 30:

Contracts expiring in 2020 (and their age at expiry):​
  • Clyne (29)
  • Milner (34)
  • Lallana (32)
Contracts expiring in 2021:​
  • Mignolet (33)
  • Matip (29)
  • Lovren 32)
  • Wijnaldum (30)
It's clear what the long-term plan is and that most of the players listed above are the players who will be moved out next. With that in mind, it's great to see the club being proactive in identifying the next wave of youngsters to replace them, notably Grabara (20); Hoever (17); Van den Berg (17); Elliott (16); as well as Brewster (19).

Personally I'm not convinced that most of the other younger squad options (beyond those mentioned above) will be here long-term:
  • Phillips - Likely moved on soon.
  • Larouci - Promising, but still unproven and quite raw in defending as a LB.
  • Lewis - Not good enough for the 1st team.
  • Grujic - Being showcased again in Germany, but still has a chance of being Henderson's long term replacement.
  • Jones - Promising, but I don't think he's good enough to be one of the 1st teams' 4 CM's going forward.
  • Wilson - Probably leaves if and when an offer of £20m+ is received.
  • Kent - Rangers want him on loan, but he'll probably get sold this summer.
  • Woodburn - Has failed to impress on loan and will probably get loaned again or sold.
  • Duncan - Promising, but still has a long way to go yet.

That said, looking at the squad and assessing the weaknesses (both current and long-term), I think the next priorities for scouting and signings are very likely the following:

  • CM: A young replacement for Milner (33) and Lallana (31). I personally don't think Curtis Jones is up to scratch as a direct replacement, and it would be nice to see a Gomez/Hoever/Elliott type signing here in the 18-21 year old range.
I think this signing can wait until next summer, at which stage a clear space in the squad would be open to attract someone more established who would want significant game time (eg. Kai Havertz, 20). This young CM would be competing primarily with Ox/Keita/Wijnaldum, with Wijnaldum then being 29 and a year away from his contract expiring. There would be plenty of game time for him, albeit as a 3rd/4th choice CM the first season while getting bedded in.​

  • LB: As stated above I don't think Lewis is good enough, and Larouci has yet to convince either. A young understudy for Robertson in the 18-21 range would be ideal long-term.
Short-term cover (for this season) by an experienced LB could be a shrewd move as well (similar to the Klavan signing). I see this as the only necessary transfer left to make this window (unless a good young option is brought in).​

  • LW: With Woodburn and Kent likely to be moved on the team lacks natural LW depth beyond Mané, so that is clearly a need going forward too. Again, someone highly promising in the 18-21 range would be great.

With the notable exception of LB cover for this season, I don't think any of the above necessarily need to be made in this window. That said, I do think these moves would ideally be made by the end of the 2020 window.

Now, with all that in mind, if we fast-forward two years to the 2021-22 season, the squad should look something like this (with ages updated for summer 2021):

------------------------------ Alisson (28) ------------------------------------
------------------------------ Grabara (22) -----------------------------------

Trent (22) -------- Gomez (24) ------- Van Dijk (30) ------- Robertson (27)
Hoever (19) ------- Matip (29) ---- Van den Berg (19) ---- New LB (21-22)

------------------------------ Fabinho (27) -----------------------------------
----------------------------- Henderson (31) ---------------------------------
------------------------------- Grujic (25) -------------------------------------

----------------- Wijnaldum (30) ---------- Keita (26) -----------------------
----------------- New CM (21-22) --------- Ox (27) -------------------------

Salah (29) ------------------- Firmino (29) ----------------------- Mané (29)
Shaqiri (29) ------------------- Origi (26) ------------------- New LW (21-22)
Elliott (18) ------------------- Brewster (21) ----------------------------------
 
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Richard88

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Does anyone believe Max Kruse when he says he rejected Liverpool to join Fenerbahce? I am asking genuinely for discussion sake. "After speaking with players I don't regret my decision" It seems like such an odd thing for a player to say, publicly, not to mention poor character form. And in the off chance it is true, I wonder what attracted him to the Turkish League over the Prem.
"With players". In other words, he probably spoke with Karius. Maybe Emre Can as well. Both of whom Klopp was fine letting go and who might thus not have the best things to say.

Realistically I think Kruse was lined up as a possible replacement for Origi in case he hadn't signed a new contract, to provide nothing more than an experienced backup option behind Firmino and Brewster. Kruse might not have wanted to wait on Origi to make up his mind, thereby "snubbing" Liverpool by signing a deal elsewhere in the meantime.
 
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GaryBarlow99

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Klopp basically saying Kent needs to leave to get game time at his age. Don't know if it was only him he was referring to or Wilson as well.

“The time is over, I think, for loans, because of his age. The players need to find a place where they can settle. A loan is not an option.”
 

Walshy07

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Klopp basically saying Kent needs to leave to get game time at his age. Don't know if it was only him he was referring to or Wilson as well.

“The time is over, I think, for loans, because of his age. The players need to find a place where they can settle. A loan is not an option.”
Still think both Kent and Wilson go before window closes.
 

legalalien

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I can't imagine selling both Kent and Wilson and not buying a replacement other than a 16 year old. Having watched the post match presser, it seems to me that Jurgen was referring specifically to Kent and not Wilson when he said that the time for loans is over. Given the way he was speaking it looks like Kent will be gone and Wilson will get a chance to stake his claim.

This may be my imagination but when he was talking to the club PR guy about Kent's absence, I got the impression that there was something Jurgen thought it best not to say publicly. Of course it's always best not to reveal any details of a player's personal life, but I did get the impression that "illness" was a euphemism here.
 



Jaytinho

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I would prefer to have Ounas rather than Pepe
Im inclined to agree, I remember this cameo he made for Algeria in the AFCON against Ivory Coast in the QF's. He came on for Mahrez and immediately Algeria looked dangerous in the final 3rd. His ball control is insane
 

legalalien

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Im inclined to agree, I remember this cameo he made for Algeria in the AFCON against Ivory Coast in the QF's. He came on for Mahrez and immediately Algeria looked dangerous in the final 3rd. His ball control is insane
I take it that you and @FGred mean Adam Ounas of Napoli? Do you either of you know why he wasn't involved in the game in Edinburgh?

Not that I'm trying to stir up a rumour here. No, no, no. I wouldn't do that. Anyway, Calciomercato reckon that Sevilla are interested in him.
 

Jaytinho

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I take it that you and @FGred mean Adam Ounas of Napoli? Do you either of you know why he wasn't involved in the game in Edinburgh?

Not that I'm trying to stir up a rumour here. No, no, no. I wouldn't do that. Anyway, Calciomercato reckon that Sevilla are interested in him.
Same one!
 

redfanman

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Guys, I love Klopp, but, are these quotes not annoying? Like, he really does not need to say shit like this I prefer it when we move in silence, this bills talk was unnecessary. And talking about other teams compared to Liverpool? Since when does Klopp do that? Na Jurgen, chill

'We have to pay bills' - Klopp not jealous of 'fantasia land' spending from rivals
I think he was perfectly correct in what he said, and in choosing to say. No matter what the club do, there are fans always demanding we spend big and there are always journalists asking him about it.
 



Jaytinho

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I think he was perfectly correct in what he said, and in choosing to say. No matter what the club do, there are fans always demanding we spend big and there are always journalists asking him about it.
I know these are deflective answers, they just seem unnecessary lol It was cool when he gave vague answers to the press before
 

mattyhurst

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Seriously can't let Wilson go in my view, we'd be one down on last season up top for starters, it's also half the reason we haven't bought so we can bring these lads through isn't it?

Kent in my view isn't good enough, so not too worried but Wilson is a player who could be vital, after all bringing his pace on towards the end of the match could be dangerous, I don't want to hinder Brewster but him and Elliott still have time, Wilson is of this moment, plus he has a more dangerous free kick than our current crop.

If he goes then we must buy, but if he is staying then I am comfortable.
 
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FGred

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I take it that you and @FGred mean Adam Ounas of Napoli? Do you either of you know why he wasn't involved in the game in Edinburgh?

Not that I'm trying to stir up a rumour here. No, no, no. I wouldn't do that. Anyway, Calciomercato reckon that Sevilla are interested in him.
Yes one and the same but what confused me was that they played a Younès is that the same person I wonder?
 

Kopstar

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Seriously can't let Wilson go in my view, we'd be one down on last season up top for starters, it's also half the reason we haven't bought so we can bring these lads through isn't it?

Kent in my view isn't good enough, so not too worried but Wilson is a player who could be vital, after all bringing his pace on towards the end of the match could be dangerous, I don't want to hinder Brewster but him and Elliott still have time, Wilson is of this moment, plus he has a more dangerous free kick than our current crop.

If he goes then we must buy, but if he is staying then I am comfortable.
How? Even if we did let Wilson go we didn't have him available last season anyway? The only person up front we've lost from last season is Sturridge but we've 'gained' Brewster so even if we sell Wilson and Kent and ignoring Elliott and AOC, we've got the same numbers up front as we had last year, haven't we?
 

mattyhurst

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How? Even if we did let Wilson go we didn't have him available last season anyway? The only person up front we've lost from last season is Sturridge but we've 'gained' Brewster so even if we sell Wilson and Kent and ignoring Elliott and AOC, we've got the same numbers up front as we had last year, haven't we?
Brewster won't be first team (He has played less than Wilson and I don't buy shop window rubbish), and I am ignoring Elliott, the lads 16 for god sake and Klopp has already suggested he may get a loan spell.

Ox in my view is a central AM, so back to my original point, we are one down from last year which frankly was a bit risky, considering these three haven't had a rest that's even more so this season.
 



redfanman

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Brewster won't be first team (He has played less than Wilson and I don't buy shop window rubbish), and I am ignoring Elliott, the lads 16 for god sake and Klopp has already suggested he may get a loan spell.

Ox in my view is a central AM, so back to my original point, we are one down from last year which frankly was a bit risky, considering these three haven't had a rest that's even more so this season.
Brewster has played less because he is still facing the effects of the first team training schedule and Klopp is being careful with him. He definitely is first team.
 

Richard88

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Brewster won't be first team (He has played less than Wilson and I don't buy shop window rubbish), and I am ignoring Elliott, the lads 16 for god sake and Klopp has already suggested he may get a loan spell.

Ox in my view is a central AM, so back to my original point, we are one down from last year which frankly was a bit risky, considering these three haven't had a rest that's even more so this season.
Where has Klopp suggested that? It doesn't sound at all like something he'd say.

I'd expect Elliott to stay at Melwood and train with the first team this season while playing with the u23's. Maybe getting a game in the league cup similar to Hoever last season.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Last year we had Salah, Mane, Firmino, Origi, Sturridge and Brewster as our attack with Brewster spending most (not all) of the season injured.

So far this season we will seemingly have Salah, Mane, Firmino, Origi and Brewster with no way of predicting how many injuries that group of players will pick up.

Unless we list Elliot as a replacement for Sturridge or keep one of Wilson or Kent we are a man down before injuries. We can't know nobody will get injured next season. Especially Brewster who is only just coming back from an injury.
 

Jaytinho

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Brewster won't be first team (He has played less than Wilson and I don't buy shop window rubbish), and I am ignoring Elliott, the lads 16 for god sake and Klopp has already suggested he may get a loan spell.

Ox in my view is a central AM, so back to my original point, we are one down from last year which frankly was a bit risky, considering these three haven't had a rest that's even more so this season.
Brewster definitely first team. Everything is setup for him to have a break out season
 



Mascot88

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Last year we had Salah, Mane, Firmino, Origi, Sturridge and Brewster as our attack with Brewster spending most (not all) of the season injured.

So far this season we will seemingly have Salah, Mane, Firmino, Origi and Brewster with no way of predicting how many injuries that group of players will pick up.

Unless we list Elliot as a replacement for Sturridge or keep one of Wilson or Kent we are a man down before injuries. We can't know nobody will get injured next season. Especially Brewster who is only just coming back from an injury.
Hang on, this doesn’t make any sense.

Last year we had Firmino, Salah, Mane, Origi and Sturridge. You can’t include Brewster. He was injured and didn’t play a single minute.

This year we have Firmino, Salah, Mane, Origi and Brewster.

Brewster essentially replaces Danny. We can have a conversation about whether that’s a drop in quality or not, but we can’t say it’s a reduction in numbers.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Hang on, this doesn’t make any sense.

Last year we had Firmino, Salah, Mane, Origi and Sturridge. You can’t include Brewster. He was injured and didn’t play a single minute.

This year we have Firmino, Salah, Mane, Origi and Brewster.

Brewster essentially replaces Danny. We can have a conversation about whether that’s a drop in quality or not, but we can’t say it’s a reduction in numbers.
No he doesn't. Brewster was in the squad last year, he was even on the bench twice and could have been brought on as a substitute. He was one of our players last season just one of our forwards missed nearly the whole season injured. Just like one may this season. Or two may miss half a season each. Or three may miss a seasons worth of football between them or hundred other combinations. We had 6 attackers. We have 5. We are 1 down. We have zero way of predicting we will be as good, better or worse on the injury front just because we know what happened last season.
 

GermanRed

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Brewster will score more than Sturridges 4 goals and 2 assists

Moreno: 4 starts last season - that's nothing. Won't be difficult for Larouci to be an more important player for us.

Clyne wasn't here last season - won't be here this season. No loss. Hoever will be our clear second choice RB by the end of the year.

Ox missed the whole season -> new signing.

Lallana, Lovren, Matip, Gomez, Keita, Shaqiri, Origi, Fabinho - all of them missed more or less half of last season for different reasons. That's unused potential in quality and quantity.

We have van den Berg, Larouci, Hoever, Elliott, Wilson as a bonus.
 

Richard88

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No he doesn't. Brewster was in the squad last year, he was even on the bench twice and could have been brought on as a substitute. He was one of our players last season just one of our forwards missed nearly the whole season injured. Just like one may this season. Or two may miss half a season each. Or three may miss a seasons worth of football between them or hundred other combinations. We had 6 attackers. We have 5. We are 1 down. We have zero way of predicting we will be as good, better or worse on the injury front just because we know what happened last season.
One has to consider the situation in terms on on-pitch minutes.

Sturridge 18/19:
  • PL: 18 GP.... 496mins.... 2 goals + 1 assist
  • CL: 7 GP...... 162mins.... 1 goal + 1 assist
  • FA: 1 GP...... 70mins
  • LC: 1 GP...... 90mins...... 1 goal
  • TOTAL: 27 GP.... 818mins...... 4 goals + 2 assists
That's an average of 30.3 mins per appearance, with a goal or assist every 136 mins.

Now, consider that Origi and Brewster:

Origi 18/19:
  • PL: 12 GP..... 366mins........ 3 goals + 1 assist
  • CL: 8 GP...... 217mins......... 3 goals
  • FA: 1 GP...... 90mins........... 1 goal
  • TOTAL: 21 GP... 673mins.... 7 goals + 1 assist
That's an average 32 mins per appearance, and a goal or assist every 84.1 mins.

Brewster 18/19:
  • 0 mins in all first-team games.
  • On the bench in matchday 34 against Palace (H); and against Barcelona (H) and Spurs in the CL.
Looking at those statistics, I think it's fairly clear that Sturridge's 818mins are easily replaceable between Origi and Brewster. Origi's scoring rate last season was also better than Sturridge's.

Granted, we will have at least 3 more fixtures this season due to the Uefa Super Cup and Club World Cup, and likely more if we go further in the cups. But Origi and Brewster should feature far more than their combined 673mins last season.

So all-in-all, purely in terms of on-pitch minutes and statistics it's clear that the options up front aren't worse than last year.
 

Kopstar

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No he doesn't. Brewster was in the squad last year, he was even on the bench twice and could have been brought on as a substitute. He was one of our players last season just one of our forwards missed nearly the whole season injured. Just like one may this season. Or two may miss half a season each. Or three may miss a seasons worth of football between them or hundred other combinations. We had 6 attackers. We have 5. We are 1 down. We have zero way of predicting we will be as good, better or worse on the injury front just because we know what happened last season.
Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. He was on the bench for the very last two champions league games. You know, the 2nd leg against Barcelona where we didn't have Firmino or Salah where we can name 7 substitutes. He then made the bench for the final where we can name 12 substitutes. He was very much being eased back and had only played 2 games for the Under 23s in April. It's ridiculous to count him as part of our first team forward options for last year.