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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Teams don't operate under the assumption that a player is going to break their leg. Yes, injuries happen, but as stated above even if Origi were to get injured as your example, that's still only 1491 mins left for Brewster/Ox/Keita/Shaqiri/Wilson to take on. Not a problem at all.
You said yourself in an earlier post that we need a left forward adding as there is only Mane there. That is how teams mitigate for these things, by having other options. We do too. We have ok depth in goal, great (if susceptible to injury) depth at CB, promising depth at RB, brilliant depth at CM, play a system that doesn't utilise AM/number 10 types but have a few half options for tactical flexibility and good depth at both right forward/CF. Next to no depth at LB and LW, mostly players from other positions needing to "do a job" or academy players who haven't played a competitive senior game yet.
 


Zinedine Biscan

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Teams don't operate under the assumption that a player is going to break their leg. Yes, injuries happen, but as stated above even if Origi were to get injured as your example, that's still only 1491 mins left for Brewster/Ox/Keita/Shaqiri/Wilson to take on. Not a problem at all.
If we were to go all the way in every competition we'll be playing an additional 14 games than we did last season (excluding any cup replays). As well as increasing the number of minutes that replacement would need, that places an additional strain on the players who started near every game that would require some rotation with the available backups.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The depth seems less if we consider we will only play 4-3-3 and we need options for all 3 upfront. However, if I remember correctly we played 4-2-3-1 with Salah upfront in majority of games in initial half of the season. In that case we do have Ox, Keita, Shaqiri, Lallana other than the usual players to play in that '3'. Origi & Brewster will be down the pecking order, if we are not sticking to 4-3-3 and having a fit squad.

Also for the 2 in mid, we would still have Milly, Hendo, Fab and Gini to choose from. With a change in formation, our depth actually doesn't look bad. Once we have the full squad fit, it'll look good IMO.
Even in that formation we struggled to fill the role on the left and (unconvincingly) shifted Keita out there too much.
 

Incognito

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You and others are ignoring the fact we can't know, at this stage, who will not be available to Klopp next season. We might well have Brewster "added" but Origi could get injured during the first few games and miss the rest of the season therefore we've had Origi "subtracted"! I don't understand the logic. It's like we are being told you can't list player A due to injury as he was unavailable when we are discussing past depth but you need to list all players as 100% available for next season when discussing future depth. Its almost certainly not going to happen. We had six players in the forward positions last season and lost just over one players combined availability to injury spread out over those 6 players. We now have 5. We can't know we will have better availability on the injury front.
We got Ox and Keita to address the very issue if depth, however they were not available the next season. Couldn't we fall in a similar situation if we get someone now and them being unavailable this season?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We got Ox and Keita to address the very issue if depth, however they were not available the next season. Couldn't we fall in a similar situation if we get someone now and them being unavailable this season?
Or we could rely on Ox and Keita who may have just as many injury issues, or this time it could be Henderson and Gini or (jesus fucking christ nightmare scenario) Mane and Fabinho. By adding a player or two you are increasing the chances of being able to cope with the same level or worse level of injuries.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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It's not just that we have no senior cover for Mane on the left wing, it's worse than LB where we have that same situation with Robertson but that isn't as urgent. Robertson is LB and LB only. Mane is our best cover option for both Salah on the right and Firmino up top. Mane could go the whole season without missing a game and playing the LF role week in week out but we might still suffer because we end up using less suited players at RF and CF than we could have done if Mane was available to play there when Salah and Firmino needed resting or whatever. A good LF who is good enough to start for us would make us so much stronger. We need it and if we dont get it this summer it will harm our chances of succeeding next season. The only hope would be that we were waiting on the right player who would definitely be arriving the following summer.
 

Richard88

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You said yourself in an earlier post that we need a left forward adding as there is only Mane there. That is how teams mitigate for these things, by having other options. We do too. We have ok depth in goal, great (if susceptible to injury) depth at CB, promising depth at RB, brilliant depth at CM, play a system that doesn't utilise AM/number 10 types but have a few half options for tactical flexibility and good depth at both right forward/CF. Next to no depth at LB and LW, mostly players from other positions needing to "do a job" or academy players who haven't played a competitive senior game yet.
Yes, I did say that we need a left forward adding, but I also said that this signing doesn't necessarily have to be made this summer - but at least by next summer.

Given how efficient our scouting and recruitment is right now I think it's likely that if there was a young LW available that Klopp and the scouts liked he'd already be here. It seems obvious from how they've handled earlier transfers (eg. Keita and Van Dijk) that they'd rather wait for the right option to either become available (eg. Werner's contract expires next summer), or for some young talents (like Elliott) to mature a bit more before deciding who to sign. It's also possible that they want to bring in Sessegnon but don't want to pay the sum Fulham are wanting, and would thus want to wait a year when his contract runs out in 2020.

Whatever the case, yes, I do agree that we are lacking in depth at LW long-term, and we'll certainly need to bring in a LW to eventually replace Mané.

That said, I think we are ok in terms of numbers up front going into this season.

Moreover, as someone else pointed out above, we also started last season using a 4231 formation more often than not, and with that lineup you can see that we're not, in fact, short in numbers (except for LB, depending on how highly rated Larouci is).

------------------ Alisson ------------------------
----------------- Mignolet -----------------------

Trent ----- Gomez ---- Van Dijk -- Robertson
Hoever --- Matip ------ Lovren --- Larouci?

----------- Fabinho ------ Henderson ----------
----------- Milner --------- Wijnaldum ----------

Ox --------------- Firmino ------------ Mané
Shaqiri ---------- Lallana ------------- Keita

------------------ Salah ------------------------
------------------ Origi -------------------------
---------------- Brewster ----------------------

By the way, the fact that the club reportedly offered Moreno a contract extension suggests that they're aware that they need to plug that backup LB spot. I'm not too worried as the club is run very well now, but it would be nice to see some movement there before the season starts.
 

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The depth seems less if we consider we will only play 4-3-3 and we need options for all 3 upfront. However, if I remember correctly we played 4-2-3-1 with Salah upfront in majority of games in initial half of the season. In that case we do have Ox, Keita, Shaqiri, Lallana other than the usual players to play in that '3'. Origi & Brewster will be down the pecking order, if we are not sticking to 4-3-3 and having a fit squad.

Also for the 2 in mid, we would still have Milly, Hendo, Fab and Gini to choose from. With a change in formation, our depth actually doesn't look bad. Once we have the full squad fit, it'll look good IMO.
This list excludes Elliot. If Klopp adopts a 4-4-2 formation as a Plan B at times, I think we should be fine this season, however, unexpected injuries to key players could change things for the worse...
 
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Richard88

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If we were to go all the way in every competition we'll be playing an additional 14 games than we did last season (excluding any cup replays). As well as increasing the number of minutes that replacement would need, that places an additional strain on the players who started near every game that would require some rotation with the available backups.
That's true. But we're also going to be counting on much more minutes from the likes of Keita and Ox this season as well now that they have settled and gotten fit again, respectively. Not to mention that Fabinho has settled and should see more minutes than he did the first 3 months of last season. Wilson might be around as well and would be a decent option for some of those extra cup games.
 

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If we were to go all the way in every competition we'll be playing an additional 14 games than we did last season (excluding any cup replays). As well as increasing the number of minutes that replacement would need, that places an additional strain on the players who started near every game that would require some rotation with the available backups.
If we go all the way in four competitions it will be because we’ve had favourable draws that mean we’ve advanced to the latter stages of the domestic cups using kids. It won’t be because we bought more first team players.

Anyone who thinks we need to bring in more senior lads so we can have a crack at the cups shouldn’t pretend they are interested in youth development and getting kids game experience.
 



Richard88

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It's not just that we have no senior cover for Mane on the left wing, it's worse than LB where we have that same situation with Robertson but that isn't as urgent. Robertson is LB and LB only. Mane is our best cover option for both Salah on the right and Firmino up top. Mane could go the whole season without missing a game and playing the LF role week in week out but we might still suffer because we end up using less suited players at RF and CF than we could have done if Mane was available to play there when Salah and Firmino needed resting or whatever. A good LF who is good enough to start for us would make us so much stronger. We need it and if we dont get it this summer it will harm our chances of succeeding next season. The only hope would be that we were waiting on the right player who would definitely be arriving the following summer.
Sessegnon and Werner's contracts both expire next summer. Even Hudson-Odoi as well, but apparently he's close to extending today with Chelsea.

It's surprising that we haven't moved for Sessegnon, he seems like such an obvious signing to make given that he's homegrown and can cover both LB and LW for us which are both positions of need. Fulham getting relegated is also a perfect time for him to move on. Maybe Fulham are demanding too much right now, or perhaps there's something about him that the scouts or Klopp don't like though.
 

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No he doesn't. Brewster was in the squad last year, he was even on the bench twice and could have been brought on as a substitute. He was one of our players last season just one of our forwards missed nearly the whole season injured. Just like one may this season. Or two may miss half a season each. Or three may miss a seasons worth of football between them or hundred other combinations. We had 6 attackers. We have 5. We are 1 down. We have zero way of predicting we will be as good, better or worse on the injury front just because we know what happened last season.
Sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

Claiming a lad who has never played a competitive minute for the club, and who made two bench appearances last year presumably in preparation for contributing this year, should be counted as one of our attackers last year, is absurd

In every sense he is a ‘new player’.
 

Iluvatar

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Sessegnon and Werner's contracts both expire next summer. Even Hudson-Odoi as well, but apparently he's close to extending today with Chelsea.

It's surprising that we haven't moved for Sessegnon, he seems like such an obvious signing to make given that he's homegrown and can cover both LB and LW for us which are both positions of need. Fulham getting relegated is also a perfect time for him to move on. Maybe Fulham are demanding too much right now, or perhaps there's something about him that the scouts or Klopp don't like though.
He is refusing to leave London apparently, so is pretty much sorted with Spurs. I agree he'd be the ideal signing! Left Back and Left Forward back up, makes so much sense.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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If we go all the way in four competitions it will be because we’ve had favourable draws that mean we’ve advanced to the latter stages of the domestic cups using kids. It won’t be because we bought more first team players.

Anyone who thinks we need to bring in more senior lads so we can have a crack at the cups shouldn’t pretend they are interested in youth development and getting kids game experience.
I don't really get this, sorry. I was responding to someone saying a replacement for Sturridge only needs to be available for the same number of minutes Sturridge played last season, which is only true if we play exactly the same number of games. The far more likely scenario is we play a lot more games, which not only means the stand-in needs to be available for far more, it also puts way more strain on the players who didn't require a stand-in for the most part due to the number of games played.

In other words, just because someone like Salah was ok to play 52 games last season, it doesn't mean he'll be fine playing potentially 66 games. And that's true of Firmino, Mane, Robertson and a few others as well.
 

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You and others are ignoring the fact we can't know, at this stage, who will not be available to Klopp next season. We might well have Brewster "added" but Origi could get injured during the first few games and miss the rest of the season therefore we've had Origi "subtracted"! I don't understand the logic. It's like we are being told you can't list player A due to injury as he was unavailable when we are discussing past depth but you need to list all players as 100% available for next season when discussing future depth. Its almost certainly not going to happen. We had six players in the forward positions last season and lost just over one players combined availability to injury spread out over those 6 players. We now have 5. We can't know we will have better availability on the injury front.
Eh? Brewster was injured for almost the whole of last season and had never previously been part of the first team set up. During this period, how could anyone have considered him to have been part of our first team forward 'depth'?!

The reason he's now included in what we consider depth for the first team forward options this year is a) because he's no longer injured and b) because he's now part of the first team when he hasn't been previously.
 



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I don't really get this, sorry. I was responding to someone saying a replacement for Sturridge only needs to be available for the same number of minutes Sturridge played last season, which is only true if we play exactly the same number of games. The far more likely scenario is we play a lot more games, which not only means the stand-in needs to be available for far more, it also puts way more strain on the players who didn't require a stand-in for the most part due to the number of games played.

In other words, just because someone like Salah was ok to play 52 games last season, it doesn't mean he'll be fine playing potentially 66 games. And that's true of Firmino, Mane, Robertson and a few others as well.
I think we'll be alright for extra minutes with Brewster; Origi; Ox being fit; Keita being fit and settled; Shaqiri; and Wilson (if he stays).

Yeah, it would be nice to sign another world class forward, but realistically who is going to want to sign without assurances of being first choice? I love what the club are doing with signing and promoting young players - not for the sake of it - but the right young players (see for example Trent, Hoever, and Brewster). At some stage you've got to give these guys a chance. After all, Brewster probably would have moved to Germany instead of extending here if he wasn't promised some real opportunities. Likewise, the likes of Hoever/Van den Berg/Elliott wouldn't sign here if they didn't see clear path to the first team. Needless to say, if you want to keep and attract the best young players you need to play them or they'll want to move elsewhere.
 

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I don't really get this, sorry. I was responding to someone saying a replacement for Sturridge only needs to be available for the same number of minutes Sturridge played last season, which is only true if we play exactly the same number of games. The far more likely scenario is we play a lot more games, which not only means the stand-in needs to be available for far more, it also puts way more strain on the players who didn't require a stand-in for the most part due to the number of games played.

In other words, just because someone like Salah was ok to play 52 games last season, it doesn't mean he'll be fine playing potentially 66 games. And that's true of Firmino, Mane, Robertson and a few others as well.
The point is that we are always going to want to give kids a chance in the domestic cups. We are a club that prides itself on providing those opportunities, and those early cup games will be part of that.

The argument that we need more senior lads because we want to go further in the cups doesn’t make sense to me.

Apologies if that wasn’t what you were saying. Plenty of people are, and such comments ignore this clubs intentions and ethos when it comes to youngsters and development.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I think we'll be alright for extra minutes with Brewster; Origi; Ox being fit; Keita being fit and settled; Shaqiri; and Wilson (if he stays).

Yeah, it would be nice to sign another world class forward, but realistically who is going to want to sign without assurances of being first choice? I love what the club are doing with signing and promoting young players - not for the sake of it - but the right young players (see for example Trent, Hoever, and Brewster). At some stage you've got to give these guys a chance. After all, Brewster probably would have moved to Germany instead of extending here if he wasn't promised some real opportunities. Likewise, the likes of Hoever/Van den Berg/Elliott wouldn't sign here if they didn't see clear path to the first team. Needless to say, if you want to keep and attract the best young players you need to play them or they'll want to move elsewhere.
As I said elsewhere previously, the problems come when they guys we're seemingly relying on to play far larger parts this season (either because we were already a bit stretched in their positions, or other players have since left) have all continued to have problems. Keita has missed all of preseason with another injury, so has Shaqiri, we're now told that Ox has a chronic calf problem that is being managed but could flare up at any time. We're pinning a lot of hope in guys who have been plagued with injury issues, and continue to be so, basically making it through the whole season unscathed.

I'm not clamouring for world-class signings. It is what it is. I would like more people to acknowledge that we're taking a hell of a gamble with squad depth when a load more games need to be taken into account.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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To be honest I tend to lean towards we need further depth.

As absurd as it sounds I dont think we are that good. Last season Klopp made us better than the sum of our parts. He made players look better than they actually are.

Can he repeat this next season I dont know, but I am pretty certain if any other manager came in, we would probably fall to CL place contenders rather than title contenders.

I think we need to add another forward, not just for injuries but to really challenge and push our other forwards to another level. (Similar to our midfield last season). I would like full back cover. Not because I dont believe TAA/Robertson cant play 60 games a season (or that Milner is not a good backup). But because I because I belive Milner is at times too important to be a utility player, and I want TAA/Robertson playing 40 games at a 10/10 level rather than more, where too much match time takes its toll.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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The point is that we are always going to want to give kids a chance in the domestic cups. We are a club that prides itself on providing those opportunities, and those early cup games will be part of that.

The argument that we need more senior lads because we want to go further in the cups doesn’t make sense to me.

Apologies if that wasn’t what you were saying. Plenty of people are, and such comments ignore this clubs intentions and ethos when it comes to youngsters and development.
Sorry mate, again this is not really the point I'm making. For the early cup rounds you're talking about maybe 2-3 games if we draw a lower league opponent (I don't believe we'd field the kids against PL oppo). Out of a schedule of potentially 67 games. Last season we played 53.

We could crash out of the cups early again rendering the point moot. But I doubt we're planning or hoping for that to happen.
 



Richard88

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As I said elsewhere previously, the problems come when they guys we're seemingly relying on to play far larger parts this season (either because we were already a bit stretched in their positions, or other players have since left) have all continued to have problems. Keita has missed all of preseason with another injury, so has Shaqiri, we're now told that Ox has a chronic calf problem that is being managed but could flare up at any time. We're pinning a lot of hope in guys who have been plagued with injury issues, and continue to be so, basically making it through the whole season unscathed.

I'm not clamouring for world-class signings. It is what it is. I would like more people to acknowledge that we're taking a hell of a gamble with squad depth when a load more games need to be taken into account.
I'll agree that it's a little bit of a gamble, but it's a reasonable one to make.

I think of it as a similar situation as when we went into the 2017-18 season having not signed Van Dijk yet. Going into that season we had Gomez, Lovren, Matip, and Klavan as our 4 CB's, and many were clamouring for us to sign another CB at all costs because Gomez, Lovren, and Matip were injury prone. Riding it out for 6 months ensured that the club got the player they wanted, while taking a short-term gamble that their 4 CB's would stay fit enough in the meantime.

In a similar vein, we're now taking a little bit of a gamble that the players you mentioned can stay fit, but given how calculated and efficient the club now is with regards to transfers, I think it's likely that they're aware of the risk while they wait for the right time to sign the young LW they want.

It's also a gamble to give Brewster a prominent role in the squad without any first team experience, but it was also a gamble back when Trent and Gomez were the only cover for Clyne. At the time, there were many who wanted us to sign another RB as it was too much of a gamble to rely on an 18 year old as backup RB.

As fans we love the fact that Liverpool can attract the best youngsters, but often we're averse to taking the gambles that create the opportunities for them. Hoever, Brewster, Elliott, and Van den Berg have all signed because the club clearly promotes youth into the first team. Needless to say, that wouldn't happen if we were perpetually signing "experienced" players to be backups and take the minutes that would otherwise have gone to these young guys.
 

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Sorry mate, again this is not really the point I'm making. For the early cup rounds you're talking about maybe 2-3 games if we draw a lower league opponent (I don't believe we'd field the kids against PL oppo).
I think we’d give kids/fringe a chance regardless of who we draw.

If we found ourselves in the semi-final of a cup maybe we’d take it more seriously.

But who knows? Maybe we’ll get Burton Fucking Albion.
 

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For the avoidance of doubt I'm also not arguing that we've got enough depth. I don't think we had enough last year to challenge across all fronts and my view hasn't changed. I would like us to add a quality wide forward option, a quality attacking central midfielder and more experienced back up for both full-back positions (but particularly on the left).

The only point I am currently contesting is that, as it stands, we have less depth than last year because Sturridge and Moreno have gone and Clyne is injured. We really don't. Brewster more than replaces any 'depth' lost by Sturridge's departure, Moreno's 'depth' was superficial at best as was Clyne's...both are more than replaced by Larouci and Hoever.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I'll agree that it's a little bit of a gamble, but it's a reasonable one to make.

I think of it as a similar situation as when we went into the 2017-18 season having not signed Van Dijk yet. Going into that season we had Gomez, Lovren, Matip, and Klavan as our 4 CB's, and many were clamouring for us to sign another CB at all costs because Gomez, Lovren, and Matip were injury prone. Riding it out for 6 months ensured that the club got the player they wanted, while taking a short-term gamble that their 4 CB's would stay fit enough in the meantime.

In a similar vein, we're now taking a little bit of a gamble that the players you mentioned can stay fit, but given how calculated and efficient the club now is with regards to transfers, I think it's likely that they're aware of the risk while they wait for the right time to sign the young LW they want.

It's also a gamble to give Brewster a prominent role in the squad without any first team experience, but it was also a gamble back when Trent and Gomez were the only cover for Clyne. At the time, there were many who wanted us to sign another RB as it was too much of a gamble to rely on an 18 year old as backup RB.

As fans we love the fact that Liverpool can attract the best youngsters, but often we're averse to taking the gambles that create the opportunities for them. Hoever, Brewster, Elliott, and Van den Berg have all signed because the club clearly promotes youth into the first team. Needless to say, that wouldn't happen if we were perpetually signing "experienced" players to be backups and take the minutes that would otherwise have gone to these young guys.
I love seeing the kids given a chance and I think we've got a cracking bunch breaking through (and I include the new arrivals VDB and Elliott in that) and look forward to seeing them in action.

I just think we're maybe one signing away from being ready to throw down with City for the title, and a name you mentioned earlier (but who I think is off the table for the reasons Illuvatar gave) stands out as being able to cover both positions we're light at a stroke - Ryan Sessegnon. He would be literally the perfect signing to round out this squad and get it title-ready. Is also a young player in need of development, something we all like.

But that's the template. It's not a huge difference, but I feel like it honestly could be a decisive one. In a way I'd feel more comfortable if the club, not that it ever would, would just say 'guys, we're basically sacking off the league cup this year as we've got bigger fish to fry'. But I'm not sure writing off a competition is in Klopp's DNA.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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I'll agree that it's a little bit of a gamble, but it's a reasonable one to make.

I think of it as a similar situation as when we went into the 2017-18 season having not signed Van Dijk yet. Going into that season we had Gomez, Lovren, Matip, and Klavan as our 4 CB's, and many were clamouring for us to sign another CB at all costs because Gomez, Lovren, and Matip were injury prone. Riding it out for 6 months ensured that the club got the player they wanted, while taking a short-term gamble that their 4 CB's would stay fit enough in the meantime.
This is actually the perfect example to show why I'm worried.

But you've remembered some details wrong.

Gomez hadn't yet moved to CB, in fact he didn't for another year.

We went into the season with Lovren and Matip as our CBs and only Klavan as back up.

We suffered.

At one stage we were having such availability issues at the back we went 3 at the back with Can and Wijnaldum either side of Lovren.

We experienced very real short term pain for the long term gain of getting the right man in the form of VvD.

Our form for the first half of the season was shocking and we limped through to January when the arrival of VvD completely transformed us.

For the long term benefit of LFC this was the right thing to do. But for the chances of LFC achieving something in that season it wasn't. There were CBs out there that would have had a good impact over the 12 months as VvD did over 6.

This is what we are probably faced with in attack now. If (and it is only an if) we land the player Klopp really wants after waiting for them it will probably be for the best in the long term. That doesn't mean we dont suffer in the short term.

Some people want to point out we will suffer, discuss this and discuss alternatives and if it can be avoided. Others want to ask them stupid questions and belittle them.

I don't understand why.
 

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This is actually the perfect example to show why I'm worried.

But you've remembered some details wrong.

Gomez hadn't yet moved to CB, in fact he didn't for another year.
But a future for him at Centre Back will have been considered, and I’m certain that one of the reasons not to invest in a Centre Back at that point would have been ‘we want to move Joe there’.

We went into the season with Lovren and Matip as our CBs and only Klavan as back up.
And Can able to play there. Klopp said this when he was quizzed on the matter.

We suffered.

At one stage we were having such availability issues at the back we went 3 at the back with Can and Wijnaldum either side of Lovren.
And won the game.

We experienced very real short term pain for the long term gain of getting the right man in the form of VvD.

Our form for the first half of the season was shocking and we limped through to January when the arrival of VvD completely transformed us.
This isn’t true. Our defence was already improving prior to the arrival of Van Dijk.

For the long term benefit of LFC this was the right thing to do. But for the chances of LFC achieving something in that season it wasn't. There were CBs out there that would have had a good impact over the 12 months as VvD did over 6.
But your Centre Back that would have improved us in the short term was probably going to be £40m quid (the price quoted for Johnny Evans). That probably then means we can’t sign Van Dijk.

And even if we can find the pennies for Van Dijk, we probably can’t then move Gomez into the middle.

This is what we are probably faced with in attack now. If (and it is only an if) we land the player Klopp really wants after waiting for them it will probably be for the best in the long term. That doesn't mean we dont suffer in the short term.

Some people want to point out we will suffer, discuss this and discuss alternatives and if it can be avoided. Others want to ask them stupid questions and belittle them.

I don't understand why.
Because it’s a forum where people have different opinions. The only point on which I’m aware you were belittled was your argument that Brewster can’t be considered an addition because he was on our subs bench for the final two games of the season. To fair, that is ridiculous.
 

Richard88

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Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
265
This is actually the perfect example to show why I'm worried.

But you've remembered some details wrong.

Gomez hadn't yet moved to CB, in fact he didn't for another year.

We went into the season with Lovren and Matip as our CBs and only Klavan as back up.

We suffered.

At one stage we were having such availability issues at the back we went 3 at the back with Can and Wijnaldum either side of Lovren.

We experienced very real short term pain for the long term gain of getting the right man in the form of VvD.

Our form for the first half of the season was shocking and we limped through to January when the arrival of VvD completely transformed us.

For the long term benefit of LFC this was the right thing to do. But for the chances of LFC achieving something in that season it wasn't. There were CBs out there that would have had a good impact over the 12 months as VvD did over 6.

This is what we are probably faced with in attack now. If (and it is only an if) we land the player Klopp really wants after waiting for them it will probably be for the best in the long term. That doesn't mean we dont suffer in the short term.

Some people want to point out we will suffer, discuss this and discuss alternatives and if it can be avoided. Others want to ask them stupid questions and belittle them.

I don't understand why.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. First you say that it was the right thing to do to wait for Van Dijk, but then you suggest that we should have signed one of the CB's "out there" and that they that would have had a similar impact to Van Dijk had we signed them. What CB's are these? Who would have been of a similar quality and would have been happy to sign for only 1 season before then be replaced by Van Dijk midseason? Do you really think we could have afforded Van Dijk's collosal transfer fee if part of that had been spent on someone else?

You also said "But for the chances of LFC achieving something in that season it wasn't.". Are you forgetting that we made it to the CL final that season? That alone makes it clear that it was worth waiting for Van Dijk instead of signing someone else for the first 3 months of the season.

We weren't in a position to challenge for the title that season either, and achieved the objective of Top 4 despite not signing another CB to cover the first 3 months.

My point here isn't to belittle you, in fact I think we agree on many things. Especially your comment that "If (and it is only an if) we land the player Klopp really wants after waiting for them it will probably be for the best in the long term. That doesn't mean we dont suffer in the short term."

Yes, it is a slight gamble to not have cover behind Mané this season at LW, but I'd rather take that risk and sign the PERFECT player next summer, rather than signing an inferior player now just for the sake of it, who would then become a hindrance to a future signing of said player. For example, imagine a situation where Sessegnon is available in January or next summer, but we've already signed some other inferior LW that hinders a move for Sessegnon.

Whatever the case, I think the scouting and recruitment team and Klopp have earned the right for us to be patient this summer, after a series of awesome transfer windows and the CL win. They clearly know what they're doing.
 

Red over the water

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Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,307
It’s clear to me that Brewster replaces Sturridge, and given how little Sturridge did for us in the last season or two, it’s not too far fetched to see Brewster making more of an impression, even as he starts out as a professional first teamer.

Origi had looked to have lost his way and hadn’t really made a case for himself on loan, but these days he is at least a cult hero and scorer of important goals, so if his head is right, and last season will have helped there, he can be a good option too.

I like Origi on the left and Brewster through the middle. Origi has pace and power, and he can cut inside and shoot well. Brewster looks to me to have great movement in the middle, and timing to get on the end of chances too. Granted, it’s very early to be saying that, but I think that’s how both players can best be deployed next season as back ups for the main three.

Personally I think we need another wide forward too, and we may well sign one before the window shuts, but if we do it will probably mean the end of the line for Kent (no surprise) and Wilson (he’s borderline).
 

Red over the water

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Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,307
PS - Mascot88 makes a good point about the luck of the draw in the cups.

Man City were lucky, and they seemed to get to finals almost untested. We were unlucky, getting Chelsea and Wolves right from the off. It was disappointing to go out so early, but let’s imagine a parallel universe where instead of plenty of talented kids coming through, we were stocked with half a dozen more seasoned back ups. Now let’s imagine the seasoned back up team played those games against Wolves and Chelsea. On a given day they could win or lose. It would be hard fought and narrow either way...

Just like it was with the young sides who played last season.