• This website uses cookies. More information.
  • The This Is Anfield Forums community is moving to a new home. Click here for more information on the transition.

The Unreliable Rumours Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
Don’t think cash is the main issue, most transfers rely heavily on instalments and I am very sure we do have credit facilities with banks. The issue to me lies on whether Klopp would want to splash out £30m for a backup fullback or £80m for a backup forward. SInce we can’t find someone who fits the bill on both price range and capability, and probably Edwards had his computer being serviced by a Mac store, we are sitting out from this window so far.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
649
There is that but but at this stage in his career to sign for European Champions he has to be realistic.

He could cover both positions, has a wealth of knowledge and experience and is a true winner. Integration into the squad should be fine as we have Brazilians aplenty
Between Trent, Gomez, and Hoever I think we have that RB position covered. Not to mention that Milner, Fabinho, and Henderson can all do a job there in a pinch as well.

Leftback however is another story, as Robertson is the only left footed fullback in the first team. Larouci and Lewis are unproven, and Milner isn't ideal as he's right footed and doesn't offer the width Robertson does.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
649
Don’t think cash is the main issue, most transfers rely heavily on instalments and I am very sure we do have credit facilities with banks. The issue to me lies on whether Klopp would want to splash out £30m for a backup fullback or £80m for a backup forward. Since we can’t find someone who fits the bill on both price range and capability, and probably Edwards had his computer being serviced by a Mac store, we are sitting out from this window so far.
Klopp did say that "we need to pay the bills" though, so there must be something to it.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
(Insert face palm) Hard to know where to start here but let’s go with....Keita actually does have a “legit shout” of being a starter
So we have 5 players good enough to be starting for 3 CM positions without any problem so far. But only 3 players good enough to be starting in attack for 3 forward positions. And some people talk like this isn't an issue.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
649
If we are down in our finances then we’ve stretched it too far last summer, I supposed.
Not really. It was smart to invest in the squad last summer to get it to a standard that can win trophies. Winning the CL may have triggered a few substantial bonus payments on a few deals though, particularly Alisson, Van Dijk, Fabinho, and Keita.
 

lillypad_33

TIA New Signing
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
1,355
I think that two things are happening here:
1) Klopp loves his players, and wants to win with what he's got
2) FSG are still playing money ball.... nothing is popping up that matches their criteria

I don't expect that this team can again match the points total of last season.
Trent and Robbo are real drivers on this team and can not possibly play 2 games a week.

The front 3 cannot play 2 games a week either.....
And
There is not much quality to come in and replace them.
 

GaryBarlow99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
747
I think part of this depth discussion, particularly with regards to the front three depends on who Klopp currently sees as being capable to cover.

We're not going to spend £70m on Pepe to rotate or back up Salah. It's just not going to happen because of how much both will want to play.
I get what you are saying mate but we spent £35m on Salah (when that was a fairly sizeable chunk of change) even though we had one of the best front threes around.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
Not really. It was smart to invest in the squad last summer to get it to a standard that can win trophies. Winning the CL may have triggered a few substantial bonus payments on a few deals though, particularly Alisson, Van Dijk, Fabinho, and Keita.
Overstretching our budget isn’t a bad thing with forward planning. And clear that is pretty much the case since the owners do like to run a very tight “what you earn is what you spent” ship. The bonuses should already be factored in as soon as the contract is signed, they can’t be left till the event happened. So for me it could be two summer budget all lumped into last season or only allowed to splash on first team starters, not for backups.
 

richieh10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
1,950
The only problem with that stance is if we stand still and others move forward we are in fact going backwards.

Last season was a mentally good season but it wasn’t good enough league wise.

Klopp must feel that our existing players can push on and improve again.

I don’t really buy tho whole ‘injured players coming back are like new signings’ stance.... it’s something I piss myself at when other managers say it.... but I do get the understanding behind it... but still think a squad can do with a little freshen up just to keep that competitive edge
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
I get what you are saying mate but we spent £35m on Salah (when that was a fairly sizeable chunk of change) even though we had one of the best front threes around.
But Coutinho isn't really a front three player. He was creative but not a goal scoring threat and the fact he was shifted to 10 to accommodate Salah shows how Klopp saw him.

Plus the little weasel was probably making it known he wanted out to Barca.

£35m in today's money is probably about £70m so unless the plan would be to drop one of those three into a number ten role then it won't happen.
 

vjcpatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
978
But Coutinho isn't really a front three player. He was creative but not a goal scoring threat and the fact he was shifted to 10 to accommodate Salah shows how Klopp saw him.

Plus the little weasel was probably making it known he wanted out to Barca.

£35m in today's money is probably about £70m so unless the plan would be to drop one of those three into a number ten role then it won't happen.
Heard rumor that liverpool wants ligue 1 winger kamano for 15m euros. He is versatile and it's a very reasonable fee for a 23 yo who scored 13 goals last season. I'd like to see this go through for the cover depth. That would also
leave us plenty to go for a backup left back.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
But Coutinho isn't really a front three player. He was creative but not a goal scoring threat and the fact he was shifted to 10 to accommodate Salah shows how Klopp saw him.

Plus the little weasel was probably making it known he wanted out to Barca.

£35m in today's money is probably about £70m so unless the plan would be to drop one of those three into a number ten role then it won't happen.
Barca didn't approach till the Neymar deal was triggered out of nowhere and that was after the Salah deal. Sorry I disagree and believe we were more than happy having 4 top forwards for our attack. Sometimes playing 3 up top when one was out or rested and sometimes playing all 4 in a 4231. I see no reason why we can't do the same now with more games and more chances to win silverware. Not to mention more revenue to pay the wages.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
649
So we have 5 players good enough to be starting for 3 CM positions without any problem so far. But only 3 players good enough to be starting in attack for 3 forward positions. And some people talk like this isn't an issue.
Most big clubs would see a significant drop from their starting 3 forwards.

Man City
Sterling --- Aguero --- Mahrez​
Sané ------ Jesus ---- B. Silva​

Spurs
Son -------- Kane ---- Moura​
N'Koudou -- ??? --- Lamela​

Chelsea
Pulisic ---- Giroud ---- Willian​
Odoi ----- Batshuayi -- Pedro​

United
Martial ---- Lukaku ---- Sanchez​
James --- Rashford --- Lingard​

Arsenal
Pepe? --- Aubameyang --- Lacazette​
Iwobi ------ Nketiah -------- Nelson​

Barcelona
Dembele ---- Griezmann ---- Messi​
Coutinho ----- Suarez ------- Malcom​

Real Madrid
Hazard ---- Jovic ------- Asensio​
Vinicius --- Benzema --- Vazquez (assuming Bale is leaving)​

Bayern
Coman -- Lewandowski --- Gnabry​
Davies ----- Muller --------- Arp​

PSG
Neymar ------ Cavani --------- Mbappé​
Draxler -- Choupo-Moting ---- Di Maria​

How many of those backup forward options are actually better than what we have? Probably only Barcelona (though they want to sell Coutinho), PSG, and Man City of course. All of whom are well known to operate well outside the rules of FFP (PSG and City), or at least heavily in debt (Barcelona).

Liverpool
Mané ---- Firmino ---- Salah​
Origi ---- Brewster --- Shaqiri​
Obviously there's room for improvement, particularly by adding another natural LW, but I think Brewster, Origi, and Shaqiri all make decent squad options capable of contributing at key times in the season.

Brewster of course is unproven at this level, but his potential is very high and he deserves an opportunity this season.

As for Origi and Shaqiri:

Origi 18/19:
  • PL: 12 GP..... 366mins........ 3 goals + 1 assist
  • CL: 8 GP...... 217mins......... 3 goals
  • FA: 1 GP...... 90mins........... 1 goal
  • TOTAL: 21 GP... 673mins.... 7 goals + 1 assist
That's an average 32 mins per appearance, and a goal or assist every 84.1 mins.​

Shaqiri 18/19:
  • PL: 24 GP..... 1,057mins .... 6 goals + 3 assists
  • CL: 4 GP ...... 176mins ...... 0 goals + 2 assists
  • FA: 1 GP ...... 90mins
  • LC: 1 GP ...... 90 mins
  • TOTAL: 30 GP .... 1,413mins ..... 6 goals + 5 assists
That's an average of 47.1 mins per appearance, and a goal or assists every 128.5 mins.​

I'd say those goal/assist outputs are excellent for backup options. Whats more, they've both also both shown that they can contribute in big games as well, notably against United (Shaqiri 2 goals), Everton (Origi winner), Barcelona (Origi 2 goals and Shaqiri 1 assist), and Spurs final (Origi goal). Isn't that exactly what we want from backup forwards?

Now, don't get me wrong, like everyone else I do think it would be really nice to add another First XI quality forward (someone like Werner for example), but that clearly isn't realistic this window. And as the stats above show, I think we have decent enough cover to get by this season with what we have.
 
Last edited:

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
649
Overstretching our budget isn’t a bad thing with forward planning. And clear that is pretty much the case since the owners do like to run a very tight “what you earn is what you spent” ship. The bonuses should already be factored in as soon as the contract is signed, they can’t be left till the event happened. So for me it could be two summer budget all lumped into last season or only allowed to splash on first team starters, not for backups.
I think what you're saying there in bold is accurate. The club probably felt that it was smarter to invest heavily last summer to complete the squad, rather than to do it bit by bit across 2 years. It clearly paid off with the CL win and club record points total in the league.

It's very clear that there is a heavy emphasis on forward planning with regards to transfers. Here's a related quote from a recent article in the Echo proving exactly that:

"Chief scout Barry Hunter and his staff plan two transfer windows ahead at Liverpool, meaning the club are currently scouting players for next summer as opposed to searching for footballers who can join the Champions League winners this year."
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
Barca didn't approach till the Neymar deal was triggered out of nowhere and that was after the Salah deal. Sorry I disagree and believe we were more than happy having 4 top forwards for our attack. Sometimes playing 3 up top when one was out or rested and sometimes playing all 4 in a 4231. I see no reason why we can't do the same now with more games and more chances to win silverware. Not to mention more revenue to pay the wages.
I'd be more comfortable with one more option for that front three but I just don't think it'll be someone at a huge fee. If someone does come in, I suspect we'd be open to Wilson going but happy to hold if we can't get the fee we want.

As for Coutinho, I suspect he was lining that up long before Neymar moved. In fact I'm pretty sure at one point Neymar was publicly talking about getting Coutinho to join him in Barcelona.

Still think left back is a bigger worry.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
Any club would see a significant drop from their starting 3 forwards.

Man City
Sterling --- Aguero --- Mahrez​
Sané ------ Jesus ---- Moreno​

Spurs
Son -------- Kane ---- Moura​
N'Koudou -- ??? --- Lamela​

Chelsea
Pulisic ---- Giroud ---- Willian​
Odoi ----- Batshuayi -- Pedro​

United
Martial ---- Lukaku ---- Sanchez​
James --- Rashford --- Lingard​

Arsenal
Pepe? --- Aubameyang --- Lacazette​
Iwobi ------ Nketiah -------- Nelson​

Barcelona
Dembele ---- Griezmann ---- Messi​
Coutinho ----- Suarez ------- Malcom​

Real Madrid
Hazard ---- Jovic ------- Asensio​
Vinicius --- Benzema --- Vazquez (assuming Bale is leaving)​

Bayern
Coman -- Lewandowski --- Gnabry​
Davies ----- Muller --------- Arp​

PSG
Neymar ------ Cavani --------- Mbappé​
Draxler -- Choupo-Moting ---- Di Maria​

How many of those backup forward options are actually better than what we have? Probably only Barcelona (though they want to sell Coutinho), PSG, and Man City of course. All of whom are well known to operate well outside the rules of FFP (PSG and City), or at least heavily in debt (Barcelona).

Liverpool
Mané ---- Firmino ---- Salah​
Origi ---- Brewster --- Shaqiri​
Obviously there's room for improvement, particularly by adding another natural LW, but I think Brewster, Origi, and Shaqiri all make decent squad options capable of contributing at key times in the season.

Brewster of course is unproven at this level, but his potential is very high and he deserves an opportunity this season.

As for Origi and Shaqiri:

Origi 18/19:
  • PL: 12 GP..... 366mins........ 3 goals + 1 assist
  • CL: 8 GP...... 217mins......... 3 goals
  • FA: 1 GP...... 90mins........... 1 goal
  • TOTAL: 21 GP... 673mins.... 7 goals + 1 assist
That's an average 32 mins per appearance, and a goal or assist every 84.1 mins.​

Shaqiri 18/19:
  • PL: 24 GP..... 1,057mins .... 6 goals + 3 assists
  • CL: 4 GP ...... 176mins ...... 0 goals + 2 assists
  • FA: 1 GP ...... 90mins
  • LC: 1 GP ...... 90 mins
  • TOTAL: 30 GP .... 1,413mins ..... 6 goals + 5 assists
That's an average of 47.1 mins per appearance, and a goal or assists every 128.5 mins.​

I'd say those goal/assist outputs are excellent for backup options. Whats more, they've both also both shown that they can contribute in big games as well, notably against United (Shaqiri 2 goals), Everton (Origi winner), Barcelona (Origi 2 goals and Shaqiri 1 assist), and Spurs final (Origi goal). Isn't that exactly what we want from backup forwards?

Now, don't get me wrong, like everyone else I do think it would be really nice to add another First XI quality forward (someone like Werner for example), but that clearly isn't realistic this window. And as the stats above show, I think we have decent enough cover to get by this season with what we have.

See we see different things looking at those lists. Maybe its distorted for you because you're looking at how good our front 3 are. But I see each of those teams having at least four sometimes five players of a similar level (which is sometimes much lower than the level of our 3).

On the subject of our back up players productivity I think that is because of Klopp and our tactics. If decent but limited players like Origi and Shaqiri can do that then how good would players like Sane, Pedro, Rashford, Suarez, Vincius, Muller or Ozil (who you missed?) Be? Its only really Spurs that are awful and they're competing on a shoe string so its harsh to compare them. Basically we need to compete with the Citys, Reals, Barcas, PSGs out there. We are, and we are doing it well. For every 100 million player they are signing we are picking up a Salah or Mane for 30-40 million. I just want us to keep doing what we are doing well.
 

steve.crowford

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
46
Most big clubs would see a significant drop from their starting 3 forwards.

Man City
Sterling --- Aguero --- Mahrez​
Sané ------ Jesus ---- B. Silva​

Spurs
Son -------- Kane ---- Moura​
N'Koudou -- ??? --- Lamela​

Chelsea
Pulisic ---- Giroud ---- Willian​
Odoi ----- Batshuayi -- Pedro​

United
Martial ---- Lukaku ---- Sanchez​
James --- Rashford --- Lingard​

Arsenal
Pepe? --- Aubameyang --- Lacazette​
Iwobi ------ Nketiah -------- Nelson​

Barcelona
Dembele ---- Griezmann ---- Messi​
Coutinho ----- Suarez ------- Malcom​

Real Madrid
Hazard ---- Jovic ------- Asensio​
Vinicius --- Benzema --- Vazquez (assuming Bale is leaving)​

Bayern
Coman -- Lewandowski --- Gnabry​
Davies ----- Muller --------- Arp​

PSG
Neymar ------ Cavani --------- Mbappé​
Draxler -- Choupo-Moting ---- Di Maria​

How many of those backup forward options are actually better than what we have? Probably only Barcelona (though they want to sell Coutinho), PSG, and Man City of course. All of whom are well known to operate well outside the rules of FFP (PSG and City), or at least heavily in debt (Barcelona).

Liverpool
Mané ---- Firmino ---- Salah​
Origi ---- Brewster --- Shaqiri​
Obviously there's room for improvement, particularly by adding another natural LW, but I think Brewster, Origi, and Shaqiri all make decent squad options capable of contributing at key times in the season.

Brewster of course is unproven at this level, but his potential is very high and he deserves an opportunity this season.

As for Origi and Shaqiri:

Origi 18/19:
  • PL: 12 GP..... 366mins........ 3 goals + 1 assist
  • CL: 8 GP...... 217mins......... 3 goals
  • FA: 1 GP...... 90mins........... 1 goal
  • TOTAL: 21 GP... 673mins.... 7 goals + 1 assist
That's an average 32 mins per appearance, and a goal or assist every 84.1 mins.​

Shaqiri 18/19:
  • PL: 24 GP..... 1,057mins .... 6 goals + 3 assists
  • CL: 4 GP ...... 176mins ...... 0 goals + 2 assists
  • FA: 1 GP ...... 90mins
  • LC: 1 GP ...... 90 mins
  • TOTAL: 30 GP .... 1,413mins ..... 6 goals + 5 assists
That's an average of 47.1 mins per appearance, and a goal or assists every 128.5 mins.​

I'd say those goal/assist outputs are excellent for backup options. Whats more, they've both also both shown that they can contribute in big games as well, notably against United (Shaqiri 2 goals), Everton (Origi winner), Barcelona (Origi 2 goals and Shaqiri 1 assist), and Spurs final (Origi goal). Isn't that exactly what we want from backup forwards?

Now, don't get me wrong, like everyone else I do think it would be really nice to add another First XI quality forward (someone like Werner for example), but that clearly isn't realistic this window. And as the stats above show, I think we have decent enough cover to get by this season with what we have.
Lukaku, James and Cavani Packed suitcases to Italy
 

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
2,727
I dont normally look to much into pre-season but these results have been a bit disappointing/worrying.
Yesterday was worst performance I can remember for a while, actually since the 3 CL away group games where we had 1 shot on target in 3 games and that was a pen!

The worry is the drop off from the front 3 is huge.
Origis all round play needs to improve a lot. He can’t pass or hold it up.
Brewster - no pressure but we need you to be the new Michael Owen!
Shaqiri - odd one. Didnt get a kick after the wolves fa cup game. Few sub appearances here and there.
Wilson another odd one. Does he have future here? Wouldn’t have a clue.

Amazed we’re Hoping to go through season with no injuries or loss of form. Really would’ve liked one in. Unlikely now.
 
Last edited:

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
Or two summer budgets lumped into next season? This summer being the dry one, and next summer being the one where we sign Mbappe? Or if that’s crazy talk, the one where we sign Havertz and Sancho? Point being, we go big.
But why hold back this year to try it next summer? If the plan is to get those players get one now.

Unless of course you were expecting someone significant to move on first in order to open up some space?

If we were short of cash we could have pushed to find buyers for some or all of Mignolet, Clyne, Lovren, Lallana, Grujic, Kent and Wilson. That would have earned us about £100m and we'd have lost no player that makes a match day squad if everyone is fit.

Promote Grabarra or the Irish lad to number two or pick up a veteran on a free and have van den Berg/Hoever as fourth choice with Fabinho as emergency cover.

Chuck that money at Leverkusen or Dortmund and see who bites.

In reality, I just don't think Klopp sees a lot of need and the players that significantly improve on those we have we're not willing to commit the money to unless we see them playing every week.

Doesn't explain the left back situation though.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
649
See we see different things looking at those lists. Maybe its distorted for you because you're looking at how good our front 3 are. But I see each of those teams having at least four sometimes five players of a similar level (which is sometimes much lower than the level of our 3).

On the subject of our back up players productivity I think that is because of Klopp and our tactics. If decent but limited players like Origi and Shaqiri can do that then how good would players like Sane, Pedro, Rashford, Suarez, Vincius, Muller or Ozil (who you missed?) Be? Its only really Spurs that are awful and they're competing on a shoe string so its harsh to compare them. Basically we need to compete with the Citys, Reals, Barcas, PSGs out there. We are, and we are doing it well. For every 100 million player they are signing we are picking up a Salah or Mane for 30-40 million. I just want us to keep doing what we are doing well.
Like it or not, we aren't able to compete financially with the likes of City or PSG who are owned by countries.

That said, I would really love to see another legit forward added - someone capable of legitimately challenging the front 3 for game time. In particular I think a natural left winger would add another dimension to the attack that we currently don't have, as well as allowing no drop of quality if and when we rotate the forwards.

That said, I don't think adding said player is necessarily urgent. That's where we disagree. There doesn't appear to be any suitable LW options available this window, given that Sessegnon seems intent on staying in London; and Werner seems to want to ride out his contract to go to Bayern next summer. Other options like Pepe, Dembele, etc are clearly prohibitively expensive right now, based on what Klopp has said about needing to "pay bills".

Lastly, for all we know (and Klopp would have a better idea of this) we might already have that 4th forward capable of challenging the front 3 in Brewster. He is after all rated similarly to the likes of Sancho who we'd all love to have here. Time will tell.

PS. I didn't miss Ozil (or Mkhitaryan for that matter). I purposely omitted them because they are more midfielders than forwards in my opinion. They're also listed as midfielders by transfermarkt which was the basis I used when compiling those forward lists.
 

steveee

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,330
I thought everyone agreed Origi deserved a new contract after the season but now he is not good enough? which is it? you can't have everything ...

u guys looking at the budget are way off.. smh.. it has nothing to do with the budget .. the only spot in question behind the front 3 is brewster and we might actually still buy someone in place of him
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
15,932
I thought everyone agreed Origi deserved a new contract after the season but now he is not good enough? which is it? you can't have everything ...

u guys looking at the budget are way off.. smh.. it has nothing to do with the budget .. the only spot in question behind the front 3 is brewster and we might actually still buy someone in place of him
Brewster's spot isnt in question. Origi gets goals - but his all round play hasnt been that good.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
Someone in the Rawk accountancy thread posted this today, and I thought it would be relevant to share here given the current discussion about whether or not we should sign a LW this window...

With that in mind I think it makes sense why Klopp is sticking with what he has and focussing on only bringing in young guys instead.

The option to raise funds for a big £60-70m signing probably would have been there this summer IF Klopp had been happy to sell some squad players like Mignolet (~£10m), Clyne (~£10m), Lallana (~£15m), Grujic (~£20m), Wilson (~£20m), Kent (~£5-10m), etc. However, the thinking is probably that the squad depth is stronger this season with some of those guys rather than with just one other LW addition. Grujic having another good season on loan should also hopefully increase his price tag next season.
I think the main source of confusion for fans is ‘the Champions League’ money. I suspect most of this has already gone on transfer clauses being met, and bonuses to the existing squad. £90m soon adds up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.