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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

vjcpatriot

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Feb 13, 2015
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Not 100% sure but I thought I read that, despite the same owners being involved, the clubs are in no sense financially related.

Also I would have thought Liverpool make more money than the Red Sox in advertising etc worldwide. You won't find too many non-Americans who can name 10 baseball players. It would surely be more important to keep Liverpool competitive than the Red Sox.
Agreed. LFC and the Red Sox are separate entities with separate payrolls and financial structures in place. One has nothing to do with the other.

LFC is very profitable and when the Nike jersey deal finally arrives it will only become more so. Certainly winning the Champion's League and being current participants also greatly enriches the club due to all the monies that entails.

This to note.

2019 summer spendings of Manchester City: £141.2m.
2019 summer spendings of Liverpool FC: £1.6m.

Current PL Standings.
Liverpool FC 1st place.
Manchester City 2nd place.

Hmmm. A certain disparity in spending vs performance that's almost poetic justice, isn't it? :)
 


JibJab

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I admit that my theory is just a bit of galaxy-brained speculation. But I can see how the dots could connect between Liverpool and the Red Sox. It's been theorized that the reason why Stan Kroenke was cheap with Arsenal for a couple windows was because of his significant financial investments in the LA Rams - including a billion dollar stadium. I don't think you can firewall the financial implications of assets that easily.

I should say that I believe Liverpool is a well-run club and I credit FSG for their direction since they appointed Edwards and Klopp. I do not mean to suggest some sort of evil plot on their part.
 

redfanman

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I admit that my theory is just a bit of galaxy-brained speculation. But I can see how the dots could connect between Liverpool and the Red Sox. It's been theorized that the reason why Stan Kroenke was cheap with Arsenal for a couple windows was because of his significant financial investments in the LA Rams - including a billion dollar stadium. I don't think you can firewall the financial implications of assets that easily.

I should say that I believe Liverpool is a well-run club and I credit FSG for their direction since they appointed Edwards and Klopp. I do not mean to suggest some sort of evil plot on their part.
Stan Kroenke was tight with Arsenal because that is his ownership strategy. It had little to do with being stretched by his ownership of the Rams. I thought much of the stadium cost was being paid for by the state, not by him.
 

JibJab

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Stan Kroenke was tight with Arsenal because that is his ownership strategy. It had little to do with being stretched by his ownership of the Rams. I thought much of the stadium cost was being paid for by the state, not by him.
Well, he's privately financing the stadium himself. The investment could top $5 Billion because he's spending a ton on surrounding development. He may be getting tax breaks from Inglewood, but I'm not sure about their scope. It's an extraordinary investment by what we've seen elsewhere, where teams basically hold cities hostage for funding for their projects (I'm opposed to state funding for stadiums, but that's another conversation entirely).
 

Carrard

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From TribalFootball:
The former agent of Real Betis midfielder Nabil Fekir has come clean on why a move to Liverpool fell through.
Jean-Pierre Bernes has revealed to Canal Plus that a third party had been at fault for the failed transfer.
He said, "Nabil was Liverpool's priority. I worked for four months with the Liverpool representatives, with Jurgen Klopp, Jean-Michel Aulas, everything was ready.
"Nabil was already aware of his future contract, which would have seen him earn around €45m over five years.
"And on the day that the contract was supposed to be signed, at Rambouillet, we saw a lawyer and Nabil's brother-in-law arrived who said: 'Stop everything, discussions have to start all over again'. It was surreal. We thought that we were in a Walt Disney film."
He added: "There were two elements. The player's medical was negative and the second element was that when you want to sign for a big club like Liverpool, you need a certain attitude.
"When the Liverpool guys witnessed this cinema, they immediately… Sometimes when a player has an injury representatives can make an effort to make it work.
"The brother-in-law of Nabil all of a sudden acted like a player's agent. He wanted a commission, everyone knows, it is fashionable these days.
"[Fekir] was on a cloud, he seemed to have transformed, he didn't even greet the Liverpool representatives.
"He arrived after the medical, everyone was looking at each other, the Liverpool representatives were wondering where they were. I was ashamed."
 



vjcpatriot

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From TribalFootball:
The former agent of Real Betis midfielder Nabil Fekir has come clean on why a move to Liverpool fell through.
Jean-Pierre Bernes has revealed to Canal Plus that a third party had been at fault for the failed transfer.
He said, "Nabil was Liverpool's priority. I worked for four months with the Liverpool representatives, with Jurgen Klopp, Jean-Michel Aulas, everything was ready.
"Nabil was already aware of his future contract, which would have seen him earn around €45m over five years.
"And on the day that the contract was supposed to be signed, at Rambouillet, we saw a lawyer and Nabil's brother-in-law arrived who said: 'Stop everything, discussions have to start all over again'. It was surreal. We thought that we were in a Walt Disney film."
He added: "There were two elements. The player's medical was negative and the second element was that when you want to sign for a big club like Liverpool, you need a certain attitude.
"When the Liverpool guys witnessed this cinema, they immediately… Sometimes when a player has an injury representatives can make an effort to make it work.
"The brother-in-law of Nabil all of a sudden acted like a player's agent. He wanted a commission, everyone knows, it is fashionable these days.
"[Fekir] was on a cloud, he seemed to have transformed, he didn't even greet the Liverpool representatives.
"He arrived after the medical, everyone was looking at each other, the Liverpool representatives were wondering where they were. I was ashamed."
It appears to me that greed was Nabil's undoing. And he let it happen. I have no regrets at all that we passed on Fekir. Now he's playing for a second rate club in the spanish league (Real Betis 15th place) instead of for the European champions and competing for a domestic title.

Btw let's recap the window shall we.

Premier League biggest spenders
Manchester United - £148m
Aston Villa - £144.5m
Arsenal - £138m
Manchester City - £134
Everton - £118.5m
Tottenham Hotspur - £101.5m
Leicester City - £91m
[source of numbers: express.co.uk]

Where are they now?

Manchester United. 12th place. 9 points. Money doesn't solve all troubles does it? Struggling somewhere in the midtable strikes me as a mediocre result for the money spent.

Aston Villa. 15th place. 8 points. They splashed big, but are barely above relegation territory.

Arsenal. 3rd place. The gunners are in good position in the top 4. But Nicolas Pepe has looked like a phenomenal bust so far. £72m for just 1 goal and 2 assists from the Ivorian winger so far?

Manchester City. 2nd place. The oil backed side splashed the monies like there's no tomorrow. They were the favorites already and maintain a top 2 position.

Everton. 17th place. 7 points. Everton is in danger of relegation. It's hard to call them rivals when they might not even be in the prem by the time this season is through. It seems they either did not spend their money wisely or their manager failed to settle so many incoming transfers at the same time.

Tottenham. 9th place. 11 points. At the beginning of the season many of the so called experts pegged Tottenham to finish 2nd, just above Liverpool. A ludicrous prediction as Tottenham has never been serious title contenders in over 60 years of competitive play. To predict ahead of Liverpool looks asinine in retrospect.

Leicester City. 4th place. The Foxes gave Liverpool quite a go but were unable to steal a result in Anfield thanks to late game heroics by Milner.

Of the top spenders, three are in the top 4. The other top spends splashed a lot of cash but with mediocre to poor results shown from all the money burned. Liverpool FC of course is the one outlying club, spending less than 2% of any of the top spending clubs but sitting nicely at the top of the table currently 8 points clear of 2nd place City.
 

sportbilly1966

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It appears to me that greed was Nabil's undoing. And he let it happen. I have no regrets at all that we passed on Fekir. Now he's playing for a second rate club in the spanish league (Real Betis 15th place) instead of for the European champions and competing for a domestic title.

Btw let's recap the window shall we.

Premier League biggest spenders
Manchester United - £148m
Aston Villa - £144.5m
Arsenal - £138m
Manchester City - £134
Everton - £118.5m
Tottenham Hotspur - £101.5m
Leicester City - £91m
[source of numbers: express.co.uk]

Where are they now?

Manchester United. 12th place. 9 points. Money doesn't solve all troubles does it? Struggling somewhere in the midtable strikes me as a mediocre result for the money spent.

Aston Villa. 15th place. 8 points. They splashed big, but are barely above relegation territory.

Arsenal. 3rd place. The gunners are in good position in the top 4. But Nicolas Pepe has looked like a phenomenal bust so far. £72m for just 1 goal and 2 assists from the Ivorian winger so far?

Manchester City. 2nd place. The oil backed side splashed the monies like there's no tomorrow. They were the favorites already and maintain a top 2 position.

Everton. 17th place. 7 points. Everton is in danger of relegation. It's hard to call them rivals when they might not even be in the prem by the time this season is through. It seems they either did not spend their money wisely or their manager failed to settle so many incoming transfers at the same time.

Tottenham. 9th place. 11 points. At the beginning of the season many of the so called experts pegged Tottenham to finish 2nd, just above Liverpool. A ludicrous prediction as Tottenham has never been serious title contenders in over 60 years of competitive play. To predict ahead of Liverpool looks asinine in retrospect.

Leicester City. 4th place. The Foxes gave Liverpool quite a go but were unable to steal a result in Anfield thanks to late game heroics by Milner.

Of the top spenders, three are in the top 4. The other top spends splashed a lot of cash but with mediocre to poor results shown from all the money burned. Liverpool FC of course is the one outlying club, spending less than 2% of any of the top spending clubs but sitting nicely at the top of the table currently 8 points clear of 2nd place City.
I'm sure these figures aren't gross spend as they dont include sales?
 

nikz200

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Messages
979
From TribalFootball:
The former agent of Real Betis midfielder Nabil Fekir has come clean on why a move to Liverpool fell through.
Jean-Pierre Bernes has revealed to Canal Plus that a third party had been at fault for the failed transfer.
He said, "Nabil was Liverpool's priority. I worked for four months with the Liverpool representatives, with Jurgen Klopp, Jean-Michel Aulas, everything was ready.
"Nabil was already aware of his future contract, which would have seen him earn around €45m over five years.
"And on the day that the contract was supposed to be signed, at Rambouillet, we saw a lawyer and Nabil's brother-in-law arrived who said: 'Stop everything, discussions have to start all over again'. It was surreal. We thought that we were in a Walt Disney film."
He added: "There were two elements. The player's medical was negative and the second element was that when you want to sign for a big club like Liverpool, you need a certain attitude.
"When the Liverpool guys witnessed this cinema, they immediately… Sometimes when a player has an injury representatives can make an effort to make it work.
"The brother-in-law of Nabil all of a sudden acted like a player's agent. He wanted a commission, everyone knows, it is fashionable these days.
"[Fekir] was on a cloud, he seemed to have transformed, he didn't even greet the Liverpool representatives.
"He arrived after the medical, everyone was looking at each other, the Liverpool representatives were wondering where they were. I was ashamed."
If this is completely accurate, then its a reason i can live with as to why we did not sign him. As the guy says, when a player as a injury there can be made efforts to make it work, but when the family and all this come in and get involved, it simply complicates matters and they should fuck straight off. Which is really unfortunate cause had Fekir joined us i am convinced Klopp would have been able to improve him to the point where he would be a frequent feature of our attack.



It appears to me that greed was Nabil's undoing. And he let it happen. I have no regrets at all that we passed on Fekir. Now he's playing for a second rate club in the spanish league (Real Betis 15th place) instead of for the European champions and competing for a domestic title.

Btw let's recap the window shall we.

Premier League biggest spenders
Manchester United - £148m
Aston Villa - £144.5m
Arsenal - £138m
Manchester City - £134
Everton - £118.5m
Tottenham Hotspur - £101.5m
Leicester City - £91m
[source of numbers: express.co.uk]

Where are they now?

Manchester United. 12th place. 9 points. Money doesn't solve all troubles does it? Struggling somewhere in the midtable strikes me as a mediocre result for the money spent.

Aston Villa. 15th place. 8 points. They splashed big, but are barely above relegation territory.

Arsenal. 3rd place. The gunners are in good position in the top 4. But Nicolas Pepe has looked like a phenomenal bust so far. £72m for just 1 goal and 2 assists from the Ivorian winger so far?

Manchester City. 2nd place. The oil backed side splashed the monies like there's no tomorrow. They were the favorites already and maintain a top 2 position.

Everton. 17th place. 7 points. Everton is in danger of relegation. It's hard to call them rivals when they might not even be in the prem by the time this season is through. It seems they either did not spend their money wisely or their manager failed to settle so many incoming transfers at the same time.

Tottenham. 9th place. 11 points. At the beginning of the season many of the so called experts pegged Tottenham to finish 2nd, just above Liverpool. A ludicrous prediction as Tottenham has never been serious title contenders in over 60 years of competitive play. To predict ahead of Liverpool looks asinine in retrospect.

Leicester City. 4th place. The Foxes gave Liverpool quite a go but were unable to steal a result in Anfield thanks to late game heroics by Milner.

Of the top spenders, three are in the top 4. The other top spends splashed a lot of cash but with mediocre to poor results shown from all the money burned. Liverpool FC of course is the one outlying club, spending less than 2% of any of the top spending clubs but sitting nicely at the top of the table currently 8 points clear of 2nd place City.

The problem is we need to take this in direct contention with Uniteds commercial value. Apparently on that alone they can keep tanking big spends without worrying about the consequences while supposedly we can't do that cause our commercial value is not as great as theirs (i could be wrong here, cause its based off a conversation i had with my friend who supports united.)
 

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The problem is we need to take this in direct contention with Uniteds commercial value. Apparently on that alone they can keep tanking big spends without worrying about the consequences while supposedly we can't do that cause our commercial value is not as great as theirs (i could be wrong here, cause its based off a conversation i had with my friend who supports united.)
United commercial value is not infinite. It's staggeringly big, of course, but not infinite to the point where they can have a Sanchez like failure and just keep absorbing it and their wage bill is completely off the scale and worse, extremely unbalanced. They're paying absolute top dollar wages to players not really worth it and that is going to affect their efforts to bring in an established player not to mention that they're going to get royally fleeced with the transfer fee as well.

They are set up to be a monster off the pitch but they are also carrying massive overheads and as was being discussed in the United thread, money is leaving the club like an open sluice and they are facing a massive cut in that shirt sponsorship if they don't qualify for the CL. The attitude amongst fans just aren't seeming to grasp the reality that they aren't just a few players off from clicking; this is the worst United team I have ever seen managed by the worst United manager I have seen overseen by the worst Chief Exec I have seen. They cannot just continue absorbing failed players and throwing money at it but throwing money is pretty much what they have to do to gain short term success to avoid major losses. Its just a massive risk now and throwing money at it and still failing, which with the current set up is extremely likely, could very well hamstring the club for the better part of another decade. Ferguson milked the squad absolutely dry, Rooney started the trend of being paid far more than his actual worth and Mourinho might be gone but the chickens from all that are coming home to roost. Ironically, the two they disliked the most in Van Gaal and Moyes could actually be the ones who did the least long term damage.
 

nikz200

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Messages
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United commercial value is not infinite. It's staggeringly big, of course, but not infinite to the point where they can have a Sanchez like failure and just keep absorbing it and their wage bill is completely off the scale and worse, extremely unbalanced. They're paying absolute top dollar wages to players not really worth it and that is going to affect their efforts to bring in an established player not to mention that they're going to get royally fleeced with the transfer fee as well.

They are set up to be a monster off the pitch but they are also carrying massive overheads and as was being discussed in the United thread, money is leaving the club like an open sluice and they are facing a massive cut in that shirt sponsorship if they don't qualify for the CL. The attitude amongst fans just aren't seeming to grasp the reality that they aren't just a few players off from clicking; this is the worst United team I have ever seen managed by the worst United manager I have seen overseen by the worst Chief Exec I have seen. They cannot just continue absorbing failed players and throwing money at it but throwing money is pretty much what they have to do to gain short term success to avoid major losses. Its just a massive risk now and throwing money at it and still failing, which with the current set up is extremely likely, could very well hamstring the club for the better part of another decade. Ferguson milked the squad absolutely dry, Rooney started the trend of being paid far more than his actual worth and Mourinho might be gone but the chickens from all that are coming home to roost. Ironically, the two they disliked the most in Van Gaal and Moyes could actually be the ones who did the least long term damage.
Yeah, you are right, its just somehow someway the media and their fan base keeps feeding us this info that they can buy their way out of this. BBC has already reported that United is going to spend big in january...... i just don't know why players would want to go to that mess anyway.


While i think somehow we have managed so far, i do think we need to buy players , even if its just one in january to help bolster our firepower. Ox hasn't come up big yet, Klopp has probably fallen out of faith with shaq and Keitas legs are a unknown factor. Unless Elliott is the one who will break into first team contention later this season.
 



redfanman

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Extremely unreliable (source is Calciomercato) but looks like we're being linked with a move once again for Martin Odegaard, who is apparently doing quite well on loan at Sociedad this season.
I think the guardian rumours were linking us with Haaland, dont know which source they were using but that is something i heard before the Red Bull game. I wouldnt be surprised if we were lining up moves for one or two of their players should we have a need to sign someone.
 

costared

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Yeah, you are right, its just somehow someway the media and their fan base keeps feeding us this info that they can buy their way out of this. BBC has already reported that United is going to spend big in january...... i just don't know why players would want to go to that mess anyway.


While i think somehow we have managed so far, i do think we need to buy players , even if its just one in january to help bolster our firepower. Ox hasn't come up big yet, Klopp has probably fallen out of faith with shaq and Keitas legs are a unknown factor. Unless Elliott is the one who will break into first team contention later this season.
Elliot looks a good prospect butI think he will need another seasons development.
 

redfanman

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Ox hasn't come up big yet, Klopp has probably fallen out of faith with shaq and Keitas legs are a unknown factor.
I disagree here. Shaq has had his season interupted by injury. Keita has plenty in the engine, and given he has barely played this season most likely has plenty in the tank - his issue has been niggly injuries at inopportune moments hence why he isnt being rushed back. Ox too is being eased back in. Klopp is big on keeping the same team whenever possible because he believes in rhythm (Partly explains why we always look so poor following a break). It wouldnt surprise me if Klopp gives Ox and Keita a proper run in the team when he finally does pick them. Shaq, offers less in terms of pressing so his minutes are always likely to be more at risk.
 

wibseyred

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For me the weekend was the must telling indicator that Keita doesn't have Klopps full trust. Salah goes down we need a goal who does Klopp go for not Keita.
 



vjcpatriot

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Yeah, you are right, its just somehow someway the media and their fan base keeps feeding us this info that they can buy their way out of this. BBC has already reported that United is going to spend big in january...... i just don't know why players would want to go to that mess anyway.


While i think somehow we have managed so far, i do think we need to buy players , even if its just one in january to help bolster our firepower. Ox hasn't come up big yet, Klopp has probably fallen out of faith with shaq and Keitas legs are a unknown factor. Unless Elliott is the one who will break into first team contention later this season.
Indeed there's only so much mismanagement a club can do financially before they start to get into trouble. No matter how wealthy they originally are and their 'name brand' power, MU is in trouble and might be so for years, particularly since they are getting into Europa League instead of the CL.

As for January, it would have to be the perfect fit for Klopp to make a move. We rarely spend in January. But an exception can be made if it's the right player, see Van Dijk. As for Elliot, he's a really promising young player but it's hard to ask a teenager to break into the 1st team, particularly one who is still only 16 years old. I wouldn't expect it.

Hopefully Ox and Keita can bounce back with a little more health and time. But that midfield is a concern. LFC is still looking for that creative 8/10 player to fully unlock the attack.

Maybe if Mbappe asks for a transfer?
 

FilthyBloke

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Indeed there's only so much mismanagement a club can do financially before they start to get into trouble. No matter how wealthy they originally are and their 'name brand' power, MU is in trouble and might be so for years, particularly since they are getting into Europa League instead of the CL.

As for January, it would have to be the perfect fit for Klopp to make a move. We rarely spend in January. But an exception can be made if it's the right player, see Van Dijk. As for Elliot, he's a really promising young player but it's hard to ask a teenager to break into the 1st team, particularly one who is still only 16 years old. I wouldn't expect it.

Hopefully Ox and Keita can bounce back with a little more health and time. But that midfield is a concern. LFC is still looking for that creative 8/10 player to fully unlock the attack.

Maybe if Mbappe asks for a transfer?
As much as I agree that we could do with a creative midfield (assuming keita and Ox are permacrocks) we still have Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnandum, Milner, Ox, keita and lallana on our books with grujic still to come back. I can’t see us signing another midfielder without getting rid first of at least 3 of the above players mentioned.
 

The Elusive 19th

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As much as I agree that we could do with a creative midfield (assuming keita and Ox are permacrocks) we still have Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnandum, Milner, Ox, keita and lallana on our books with grujic still to come back. I can’t see us signing another midfielder without getting rid first of at least 3 of the above players mentioned.
Lallana will be let go this summer. And there is a chance that Milner may retire and move to a staff role or become a pundit. Then we will be left with Fab, Hendo, Gini, Ox and Keita. Add Grujic to that and another creative option (Eriksen for me), we should be well set.
 

legalalien

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Yeah, you are right, its just somehow someway the media and their fan base keeps feeding us this info that they can buy their way out of this. BBC has already reported that United is going to spend big in january...... i just don't know why players would want to go to that mess anyway.


While i think somehow we have managed so far, i do think we need to buy players , even if its just one in january to help bolster our firepower. Ox hasn't come up big yet, Klopp has probably fallen out of faith with shaq and Keitas legs are a unknown factor. Unless Elliott is the one who will break into first team contention later this season.
I know this is going off thread but ... Brewster never gets a mention. Is he injured? I don't think he's been on the bench much either.
 



GaryBarlow99

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Lallana will be let go this summer. And there is a chance that Milner may retire and move to a staff role or become a pundit. Then we will be left with Fab, Hendo, Gini, Ox and Keita. Add Grujic to that and another creative option (Eriksen for me), we should be well set.
I think Milner will play for another couple of seasons. Maybe not for us but I hope he does. Iceman.
 

The Elusive 19th

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I think Milner will play for another couple of seasons. Maybe not for us but I hope he does. Iceman.
I hope not. He is great professional. We need to tie him up with a role for us. If it is as a player - fine. If not a coaching staff/Ambassador/tea lady - anything will do. We would be mad to let go off him.

I always think what would have happened if Milner directly came to us instead of going to Man City.
 

Red over the water

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I broadly agree with Jamie Carragher’s assessment - goalkeeper, defence and attack world class; midfield very good but a small step short of that. Fabinho is a world class defensive midfielder, but after that we have very good but not world class options.

What is missing is a bit of attacking impetus from the midfield, and a bit of cuteness to be able to find a pass and add a creative spark in that area. If Naby Keita can show us that he is the player we all hoped he would be, we are in business. If for whatever reason it continues to happen in fits and starts for him, I think we will go into the market next summer for a world class attacking midfielder, and Kai Havertz would be my choice as he adds goals from that department too.

That wouldn’t mean the end of the line for Keita, at all, and there’s no reason why a midfield trio of Fabinho, Keita and Havertz couldn’t sweep all before them; but I’m just thinking this is the season where the attacking midfield options already on the books need to show us more, or we will respond in the market to cover the need.
 



The Elusive 19th

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I broadly agree with Jamie Carragher’s assessment - goalkeeper, defence and attack world class; midfield very good but a small step short of that. Fabinho is a world class defensive midfielder, but after that we have very good but not world class options.

What is missing is a bit of attacking impetus from the midfield, and a bit of cuteness to be able to find a pass and add a creative spark in that area. If Naby Keita can show us that he is the player we all hoped he would be, we are in business. If for whatever reason it continues to happen in fits and starts for him, I think we will go into the market next summer for a world class attacking midfielder, and Kai Havertz would be my choice as he adds goals from that department too.

That wouldn’t mean the end of the line for Keita, at all, and there’s no reason why a midfield trio of Fabinho, Keita and Havertz couldn’t sweep all before them; but I’m just thinking this is the season where the attacking midfield options already on the books need to show us more, or we will respond in the market to cover the need.
Is Ox no more? Did someone eat Ox?
 

Red over the water

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Is Ox no more? Did someone eat Ox?
Not at all! Ox is one of the attacking midfield options that needs to show us more, or else I suspect we will sort it in the transfer market. There’s a heck of a long way to go this season, but Keita and Ox are the main two who need to show us more. I haven’t fully written off Lallana, but anything he can give us this season is more of a bonus in my eyes, as I see him moving on next summer after his contract expires.

Ox is coming off the back of a bad injury, and Keita hasn’t really got going yet, at least as we had hoped. If this season goes by with neither man putting down a sustained marker to help us step into the future, I think we will retain them but we will add another who may go to the top of the class in the attacking midfield department e.g. Havertz.

I haven’t forgotten Shaqiri either, but I see this signing as taking advantage of a low clause post-Stoke, and since we went big on other players it was a cost effective way to add depth. Mind you, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Shaqiri departs next summer in search of more playing time.
 

Mascot88

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I broadly agree with Jamie Carragher’s assessment - goalkeeper, defence and attack world class; midfield very good but a small step short of that. Fabinho is a world class defensive midfielder, but after that we have very good but not world class options.
I disagree, and I think it’s a case of conventional football wisdom not yet catching up with how Klopp has his team set up.

It’s a question of what we need from our midfield, not what the pundits think we should have.

Our midfielders do a very different job to those of Cities. More creativity is always welcome anywhere on the pitch, but our midfield is there to enable the front three, press High up the pitch and allow the fullbacks to play as auxiliary forwards.

Take a player like Gini. Loads of fans slate him and say he is anonymous. I’m not sure I really know what he does. But there he is. Klopp’s go to midfielder in a football team that win the European Cup, got 97 points last year, and sit eight points clear at the top of the league this season. He must be doing something right. If I can’t see what he brings, the problem must be mine.

If you slotted a more creative, but less tactically and positionally diligent midfielder in to one of those number 8 positions, I suspect that might damage the functioning of the team overall. I might have even just explained why Klopp doesn’t fancy Shaqiri, even when he is fit.

This is where I think Naby Keita comes in. I think he was bought to be that player - to be the workhorse midfielder that Klopp needs, but also have that bit of flair that Hendo, Gini and Milner don’t have. Ox undoubtedly has the intelligence to build that into his game as well, but has the same issue as Naby. How do you give him the five games he needs to work his way to sharpness, when we probably need 100 points to win the league?