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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

redfanman

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Was about to post the link Nikola did in the twitter thread. Sancho will move next summer, we are 100% one of the clubs in the hunt.. I think Klopp wants another player to rotate with Mane and Salah, as we saw last night Oxlade isnt that man. Sancho would be ideal, why wouldn’t we pay £100mil considering we spent nothing last summer and we need 1-2 players maximum over the next 2 seasons imo.
Just playing devil's advocate but we may not have had the money to spend last summer. We probably dont have a lot of dead wood to sell next summer to generate additional funds. Our midfield and defence may also need additional signings to compensate for Milner and any others leaving.

Just to add to that, I could see City trying to drive the price up if they cant get him, to reduce the funds we have available for other signings.
 


Nikola

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Just playing devil's advocate but we may not have had the money to spend last summer. We probably dont have a lot of dead wood to sell next summer to generate additional funds. Our midfield and defence may also need additional signings to compensate for Milner and any others leaving.

Just to add to that, I could see City trying to drive the price up if they cant get him, to reduce the funds we have available for other signings.
Could be that, yeah. A lot of money was spent on those contract renewals, hopefully Milner will follow suit as well. I think (or hope) academy will play a big and a successful role when it comes to strengthening the squad but I'd really be pleased if money from certain sales, say Wilson, Grujić and Shaqiri (that's anywhere from 60 to 80 million pounds) was used to fund a major, long term signing like Sancho. Aside from adding a fantastic and versatile talent to an already strong selection, it would actually further clear up a path for the likes of Elliott and Jones.
 

LFCFFC

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Was about to post the link Nikola did in the twitter thread. Sancho will move next summer, we are 100% one of the clubs in the hunt.. I think Klopp wants another player to rotate with Mane and Salah, as we saw last night Oxlade isnt that man. Sancho would be ideal, why wouldn’t we pay £100mil considering we spent nothing last summer and we need 1-2 players maximum over the next 2 seasons imo.
Also interesting to me was Dortmind pushing him over his intentions and a possible January exit (I could only see the headline/first few paragraphs so I might be mistaken here)

Regardless, I do wonder if for example, we're still protecting a 6-10 point lead in the next couple of months, whether there's any chance that if one of our targets was possibly gettable in January, we bite the bullet and to bring them in early? Even if that means paying a premium. I know it would break the mould in regards to our previous business (VVD aside) as Klopp obviously rates squad harmony and slowly integrating new signings in training over the summer period, but in these circumstances where we have such a massive opportunity to finally win the title, maybe there's a temptation to try and safeguard against the effects of potentially season-defining injuries to the front 3?
 

Iluvatar

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Also interesting to me was Dortmind pushing him over his intentions and a possible January exit (I could only see the headline/first few paragraphs so I might be mistaken here)

Regardless, I do wonder if for example, we're still protecting a 6-10 point lead in the next couple of months, whether there's any chance that if one of our targets was possibly gettable in January, we bite the bullet and to bring them in early? Even if that means paying a premium. I know it would break the mould in regards to our previous business (VVD aside) as Klopp obviously rates squad harmony and slowly integrating new signings in training over the summer period, but in these circumstances where we have such a massive opportunity to finally win the title, maybe there's a temptation to try and safeguard against the effects of potentially season-defining injuries to the front 3?
I think injuries dictate the last bit.. If we get through Christmas and Mane, Firmino, Salah etc. Aren't carrying anything we'll wait.
 

legalalien

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BBC Rumours page:
Leeds have joined Aston Villa and Crystal Palace in showing interest in taking in Liverpool forward Rhian Brewster, 19, on loan in January. (Star)

I would imagine that Rhian is feeling a bit miffed at the moment given the apparent assurances that he would get first team minutes this season. If he goes out on loan then he probably won't be coming back. That is usually what happens. I know it doesn't always, but usually it does.
 



[email protected]

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BBC Rumours page:
Leeds have joined Aston Villa and Crystal Palace in showing interest in taking in Liverpool forward Rhian Brewster, 19, on loan in January. (Star)

I would imagine that Rhian is feeling a bit miffed at the moment given the apparent assurances that he would get first team minutes this season. If he goes out on loan then he probably won't be coming back. That is usually what happens. I know it doesn't always, but usually it does.
He's had the League Cup and been travelling around the first team plenty. It's unlikely Klopp is going to blood him in the league in the midst of the season with our best chance to snatch the title. He will play the Cups and if we win against Napoli he will play against Salzburg in the last fixture. That's as good as it will get and honestly he could not, and should not, expect much more.
 

Speckydodge

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There could be the element of succession planning to consider. Who’s to say our front three will all be here in two or three years time, or performing to the level they currently are now? From his point of view it maybe makes sense to come here and get his feet under the table whilst not being under massive amounts of pressure to deliver straight away, whilst also being able to learn from three of the best players in the world in his area of the pitch and the best manager in the world.

Klopp has shown year on year as well that he likes to try and evolve our style, maybe in his mind he sees a change of formation to something resembling more of a 4231 or a 4411 with Firmino a bit deeper.

You think the most expensive singing in our history and most expensive Englishman ever wouldn't be under massive amounts of pressure? We're talking about a £125m player here, remember the whole thing over Vigils price tag. To be honest I can't think of a player that would be under more pressure if it happened.
 

AussieLad

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Sancho has problems with discipline and has been punished by Dortmund, based on what I have read. Imho, Klopp won't go for a player of that kind.
What are the discipline issues?

Are they the sort of things you expect from young kids, or more deep lying issues that good leadership (I would imagine having players like Hendo, Milner VVD would be a massive influence on his character) would not be able to sort out?
 

Iluvatar

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Sancho has problems with discipline and has been punished by Dortmund, based on what I have read. Imho, Klopp won't go for a player of that kind.
Load of tosh, Klopp will speak to him and make a decision based on that. Sancho got scapegoated for the Bayern game, he's a 19 year old kid.. You must expect some sort of reaction when you haul him off after 38mins (which is a huge freaking public humiliation), especially when he's not the blame and the last time they went behind to Bayern he spearheaded the come back.

Sancho is a must signing - Watching Salah struggle with obvious fitness issues last night shows that we need a player who can take that pressure off our front line. Firmino is showing signs of fatigue again, when you have 2 of your front 3 missfiring and unfit you become toothless.

Origi isn't that player. Oxlade is not that player. Sancho is that player - Someone with X-Factor, someone who will pick up the ball and try to make things happen.
 



The Elusive 19th

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@AussieLad @Iluvatar

1. Favre/BVB have issued a gag order to Sancho. Further Favre says that he didn't start Sancho Coz he is not focused.


You must be aware that BVB fined Sancho previously. After that Sancho has played a total of 240+ minutes out of a possible 540, during which he was on bench in 1 game and was suspended for another. Favre doesn't favor Sancho.

Surely it doesn't smoke without fire. Fame has quite possibly gone to his head. I won't be surprised if he becomes the next Sterling(talented snide) or Alli(one season wonder).

2. Pep has his say about Sancho
 
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Iluvatar

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@AussieLad @Iluvatar

1. Favre/BVB have issued a gag order to Sancho. Further Favre says that he didn't start Sancho Coz he is not focused.


You must be aware that BVB fined Sancho previously. After that Sancho has played a total of 240+ minutes out of a possible 540, during which he was on bench in 1 game and was suspended for another. Favre doesn't favor Sancho.

Surely it doesn't smoke without fire. Fame has quite possibly gone to his head. I won't be surprised if he becomes the next Sterling(talented snide) or Alli(one season wonder).

2. Pep has his say about Sancho
You could be right and there is no smoke without fire, but the City stuff all seems of sour grapes, he left them because they wouldn't guarantee football - He proved them right.

Let's face it we got a shit end of the deal for Sterling leaving us, but look at the player he has gone on to become. Guess I'm a bit more realistic that some players will use means to get a move - Van Dijk wasn't exactly squeeky clean etc.
 

The Elusive 19th

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You could be right and there is no smoke without fire, but the City stuff all seems of sour grapes, he left them because they wouldn't guarantee football - He proved them right.

Let's face it we got a shit end of the deal for Sterling leaving us, but look at the player he has gone on to become. Guess I'm a bit more realistic that some players will use means to get a move - Van Dijk wasn't exactly squeeky clean etc.
What's the difference between Sancho and Bobby Duncan. What assurance we have that Sancho won't throw a tantrum to get a move to Real/Barca in 2 years, after he comes here.
I do agree with you that we need an alternative for Mo and Mane. The only question here - is Sancho the right one.
 

redfanman

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You could be right and there is no smoke without fire, but the City stuff all seems of sour grapes, he left them because they wouldn't guarantee football - He proved them right.

Let's face it we got a shit end of the deal for Sterling leaving us, but look at the player he has gone on to become. Guess I'm a bit more realistic that some players will use means to get a move - Van Dijk wasn't exactly squeeky clean etc.
I dont think we did get the shit end of the deal for Sterling. Given the circumstances, we got quite a good one. It might have been better had Klopp joined that summer and we kept him, but that wasnt an option.
 



Iluvatar

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What's the difference between Sancho and Bobby Duncan. What assurance we have that Sancho won't throw a tantrum to get a move to Real/Barca in 2 years, after he comes here.
I do agree with you that we need an alternative for Mo and Mane. The only question here - is Sancho the right one.
Come on? Bobby Duncan has played zero 1st team football. Sancho is delivering goals/assists/chance creation amongst the best in Europe.

There is no guarantee obviously, but we really have stopped being a stepping stone and English players are less likely to want to move to Spain.

I really like the idea of our core being Gomez, Trent, Jones, Sancho, Brewster, Elliot in 5 years time!
 

Iluvatar

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I dont think we did get the shit end of the deal for Sterling. Given the circumstances, we got quite a good one. It might have been better had Klopp joined that summer and we kept him, but that wasnt an option.
Sorry I meant we were on the recieving end of some dirty agent tricks for a player wanting out and yes 100% imagine Sterling under Klopp!
 

Limiescouse

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I dont think we did get the shit end of the deal for Sterling. Given the circumstances, we got quite a good one. It might have been better had Klopp joined that summer and we kept him, but that wasnt an option.
Possibly. We had been backed into a corner regarding his status at the club ad so you can reasonably argue we got a damn good fee given how poor our position was in the negotiations. I think the other side is it was the shit end of the deal in that we got ourselves in a situation in which we allowed a mercenary who had twice before caused contract issues to become so important to us.

I as much as anyone else appreciate this is a profession and so do not begrudge the players doing what is in their financial interests. However, i think a holistic look at how a player fits into the culture of the club is required, and that means we should be cautious about players who give off a Sterling like vibe.
 

nikz200

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So the echo for some bizarre reason put up an article about Zielinski and how he was close to signing us and i found this part interesting

"Zielinski could have easily found himself linking up with Klopp three years ago. The midfielder wanted to join the Reds and was even pictured in a Liverpool shirt only for Udinese to refuse to sell to the Merseysiders.
Instead Klopp turned to Gini Wijnaldum with the Dutchman going on to reward him with some of the most memorable moments of the German’s Liverpool career.
And come the final whistle against Napoli, he witnessed nothing from Zielinski to have any regrets at missing out on his former target.
He was anonymous.
In contrast, the man signed instead of him impressed after emerging from the substitute's bench midway through the first half, Wijnaldum coming on to replace the injured Fabinho.
Lining up in an unfamiliar left-midfield role, the Italians’ game-plan in truth hardly gave him the chance to impress."


While i do appreciate the clubs transfer policies and what not, i need to emphasis , the last two times we challenged for the title we did not decide to bolster the squad in January, this has lead to us being only the team that lead at christmas to have not won the league.... let that sink in. I feel the Echo putting up articles like this is trying to temper our expectations in the window and trying to sell us some bs where other clubs for better or worse will be investing into their squads and getting more talent in.

If the club is trying to hint that Zielinski is that January transfer that will happen.... well we will have to see, but judging at how we have operated, i don't see us spending in January which i think will be a huge missed oppurtunity.
 

redfanman

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While i do appreciate the clubs transfer policies and what not, i need to emphasis , the last two times we challenged for the title we did not decide to bolster the squad in January, this has lead to us being only the team that lead at christmas to have not won the league.... let that sink in. I feel the Echo putting up articles like this is trying to temper our expectations in the window and trying to sell us some bs where other clubs for better or worse will be investing into their squads and getting more talent in.
Us not winning the league last season or on the previous occasion we led the league at Christmas had little to do with us not signing anyone in the winter window. Nor should it influence what we do this season.
 



The Elusive 19th

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Come on? Bobby Duncan has played zero 1st team football. Sancho is delivering goals/assists/chance creation amongst the best in Europe.

There is no guarantee obviously, but we really have stopped being a stepping stone and English players are less likely to want to move to Spain.

I really like the idea of our core being Gomez, Trent, Jones, Sancho, Brewster, Elliot in 5 years time!
Oh we have had that dream with 100 different youth players for the past 1 or 2 decades. If Gomez and Trent remain here as first team choice after 5 years, I think I will be satisfied.
But our main discussion point was whether Sancho has the right attitude to be a Klopp player. Imho he doesn't look like he is. He is going breaking bad so fast, I am expecting a lot more controversy popping up in next few months. Or he moves to Barca/Real/Manc/PSG and the likes in Jan, after which the press/pundits will tell you that he is second coming of Jesus Christ.
 

Sweeting

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So the echo for some bizarre reason put up an article about Zielinski and how he was close to signing us and i found this part interesting

"Zielinski could have easily found himself linking up with Klopp three years ago. The midfielder wanted to join the Reds and was even pictured in a Liverpool shirt only for Udinese to refuse to sell to the Merseysiders.
Instead Klopp turned to Gini Wijnaldum with the Dutchman going on to reward him with some of the most memorable moments of the German’s Liverpool career.
And come the final whistle against Napoli, he witnessed nothing from Zielinski to have any regrets at missing out on his former target.
He was anonymous.
In contrast, the man signed instead of him impressed after emerging from the substitute's bench midway through the first half, Wijnaldum coming on to replace the injured Fabinho.
Lining up in an unfamiliar left-midfield role, the Italians’ game-plan in truth hardly gave him the chance to impress."


While i do appreciate the clubs transfer policies and what not, i need to emphasis , the last two times we challenged for the title we did not decide to bolster the squad in January, this has lead to us being only the team that lead at christmas to have not won the league.... let that sink in. I feel the Echo putting up articles like this is trying to temper our expectations in the window and trying to sell us some bs where other clubs for better or worse will be investing into their squads and getting more talent in.

If the club is trying to hint that Zielinski is that January transfer that will happen.... well we will have to see, but judging at how we have operated, i don't see us spending in January which i think will be a huge missed oppurtunity.
To be fair Zielinski was rubbish.
 

Limiescouse

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While i do appreciate the clubs transfer policies and what not, i need to emphasis , the last two times we challenged for the title we did not decide to bolster the squad in January, this has lead to us being only the team that lead at christmas to have not won the league.... let that sink in.
We essentially lost the league that year in the period from Christmas day and NYD. We topped the table on Christmas and after losing our next two to City and Chelsea were third I think by the end of NYD. So, as much as the stat about the success rate of the leaders at christmas is true, so to is the one about about leaders at the end of NYD, which was City. So even had we spent in that Jan, those players would have been coming into a side having to play catch up.
 

nobluff

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I would absolutely love to see the clubs analytical teams breakdown on Sancho and Havertz. Of the two I am sure Havertz will be the target. I think the price is going to be a little less than De Jong went for, so maybe £60m. I think Sancho is the one everyone is clambering over, personally I don't really know why. I see a few things here and there, just nothing to justify the ridiculous levels of hype this guy is getting. Havertz on the other hand is flying under the radar in comparison.
 

The Elusive 19th

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I would absolutely love to see the clubs analytical teams breakdown on Sancho and Havertz. Of the two I am sure Havertz will be the target. I think the price is going to be a little less than De Jong went for, so maybe £60m. I think Sancho is the one everyone is clambering over, personally I don't really know why. I see a few things here and there, just nothing to justify the ridiculous levels of hype this guy is getting. Havertz on the other hand is flying under the radar in comparison.
Havertz is soo yesterday. The current flavour of the month is Erling Haaland.
 



Sweeting

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I would absolutely love to see the clubs analytical teams breakdown on Sancho and Havertz. Of the two I am sure Havertz will be the target. I think the price is going to be a little less than De Jong went for, so maybe £60m. I think Sancho is the one everyone is clambering over, personally I don't really know why. I see a few things here and there, just nothing to justify the ridiculous levels of hype this guy is getting. Havertz on the other hand is flying under the radar in comparison.
I keep wanting to say that I don't quite get the sheer amount of hype around Sancho and Haaland and then I chicken out. Something about both of them just makes me feel like they are not, and won't be, worth the money.

Sancho is very quick but I see a lot of straight line running from him that I am just not sure would happen as often in the Premier League. Everytime I see him he seems to have the freedom of the half to sprint into and didn't have to do very much to get there. Is that because he is superb at creating that space through off the ball movement or is it because the defenders in Bundesliga are shite? Or both? Not sure and wouldn't want to spend £150m to find out.

It might be heresy to say at the moment but Salzburg are the powerhouse of their league, renowned for attacking and chance creation while Haaland seems to be the perfect player to convert them. He is twice the size of most players in that league, he is fairly quick and has a predatory instinct but every striker at Salzburg thrives. In 2017/18 Munas Dabber scored 29 goals, the following year he scored 37. 2015/16 Jonathan Soriano scored 32 goals in 34 games, the year before he scored 46 goals in 50 and a guy called Alan scored 24 in 26 games. Salzburg is just too comfortable of a team/league for a striker to exist in to judge from and at £80m+ that is too big of a gamble, especially for a guy who mostly scores tap ins.
 

Iluvatar

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I keep wanting to say that I don't quite get the sheer amount of hype around Sancho and Haaland and then I chicken out. Something about both of them just makes me feel like they are not, and won't be, worth the money.

Sancho is very quick but I see a lot of straight line running from him that I am just not sure would happen as often in the Premier League. Everytime I see him he seems to have the freedom of the half to sprint into and didn't have to do very much to get there. Is that because he is superb at creating that space through off the ball movement or is it because the defenders in Bundesliga are shite? Or both? Not sure and wouldn't want to spend £150m to find out.

It might be heresy to say at the moment but Salzburg are the powerhouse of their league, renowned for attacking and chance creation while Haaland seems to be the perfect player to convert them. He is twice the size of most players in that league, he is fairly quick and has a predatory instinct but every striker at Salzburg thrives. In 2017/18 Munas Dabber scored 29 goals, the following year he scored 37. 2015/16 Jonathan Soriano scored 32 goals in 34 games, the year before he scored 46 goals in 50 and a guy called Alan scored 24 in 26 games. Salzburg is just too comfortable of a team/league for a striker to exist in to judge from and at £80m+ that is too big of a gamble, especially for a guy who mostly scores tap ins.
The thing that sells me with Sancho is we were aggressively trying to sign him before he moved to Dortmund, this is whilst Klopp was here so we clearly saw something then, and since then he has proved it at every level. Yes he's regressed this season, yes he's got a bit of an attitude problem but I do think he's the best English (attacking) talent since Sterling and can be as good. He is just 19 - Thats insane if you think he's nearly got 2 full senior seasons under his belt - He is averaging 1 G/A per 90mins over that time as well (0.95 last season, 1.19 this season), even if that drops of slightly its impressive.
 

Sweeting

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The thing that sells me with Sancho is we were aggressively trying to sign him before he moved to Dortmund, this is whilst Klopp was here so we clearly saw something then, and since then he has proved it at every level. Yes he's regressed this season, yes he's got a bit of an attitude problem but I do think he's the best English (attacking) talent since Sterling and can be as good. He is just 19 - Thats insane if you think he's nearly got 2 full senior seasons under his belt - He is averaging 1 G/A per 90mins over that time as well (0.95 last season, 1.19 this season), even if that drops of slightly its impressive.
Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting he is a bad player by any means, but looking at the kind of money being bandied around for him I would want to be 100% sure he is the real deal and I am not quite there yet. When we were pursuing him in 2017 we were probably looking at £7m-£10m where as we now looking at 15x that amount.