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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

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ILLOK

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That's a post I can get behind, rather than your earlier dismissive style.
 

JibJab

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JibJab: "I don't see Minamino as a natural fit as an attacker."
Me: "He's a goal-scoring forward."

His past usage demonstrates not only the positions that he has experience in, but also his aptitude for attacking from those positions.

Could he be used elsewhere than across the front three? Maybe. But I don't think that's consistent with the kind of numbers he has put up in his career. And I definitely don't think it supports the assertion that he isn't a "natural" in attacking roles/positions. That's how he has made his career so far.
Eh, your argument effectively boils down to what he was in the past for far lesser clubs in far lesser leagues as evidence of what he can be in the future. There's no doubt he played in attacking roles in the past. But that isn't proof of where he can be most effective, hence my belief that he isn't a natural fit as an attacker. As I said earlier, from the games I've seen and the highlights I've watched - admittedly not a huge sample size of information - Minamino seemed like more of a square peg in a round hole when put in that position. That is not where I see him as most effectively deploying his skillset - pressing, dribbling, touch - on this team. Playing him as a member of our front three - outside of a purely pressing role as a false 9 - exposes his weaknesses more obviously.

I'd compare it to guys like Lallana and Ox and and Gini - all players who have been forced into action as a forward, and can play there if necessary, but are much better served playing in a midfield role behind our front three.
 
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Eh, your argument effectively boils down to what he was in the past for far lesser clubs in far lesser leagues as evidence of what he can be in the future. There's no doubt he played in attacking roles in the past. But that isn't proof of where he can be most effective, hence my belief that he isn't a natural fit as an attacker. As I said earlier, from the games I've seen and the highlights I've watched - admittedly not a huge sample size of information - Minamino seemed like more of a square peg in a round hole when put in that position. That is not where I see him as most effectively deploying his skillset - pressing, dribbling, touch - on this team. Playing him as a member of our front three - outside of a purely pressing role as a false 9 - exposes his weaknesses more obviously.

I'd compare it to guys like Lallana and Ox and and Gini - all players who have been forced into action as a forward, and can play there if necessary, but are much better served playing in a midfield role behind our front three.

I think you are both missing the point in the stats you showed. Minimino has never played in goal in professional match.
So he will definitely be Alisson's number 2 when Adrián retires.

It's in the stats/stars/horoscopes
 
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More nonsense about Adrian! Maybe Caughoffside is reading this forum

Liverpool could reportedly face a transfer headache this summer as Real Betis have been linked with a move for goalkeeper Adrian.

At least that opens the door a bit for my minimino (lack of) thoughts :)
 

redfanman

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More nonsense about Adrian! Maybe Caughoffside is reading this forum

Liverpool could reportedly face a transfer headache this summer as Real Betis have been linked with a move for goalkeeper Adrian.

At least that opens the door a bit for my minimino (lack of) thoughts :)
It gets better, he is supposed to become understudy to that awful keeper Everton used to have Joel Robel?
 

DanLFC

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Good read that Reddy article

More or less what has been discussed here in that there is no immediate plans for a big name this summer unless one of our front 3 decides to move on.

Looks like we are well prepared to move on a Havertz or Sancho type deal should the need arise but at this stage there isn't really any room for that type of player in our squad.

Edwards and Klopp have got just about everything right since they took charge of things, no reason to doubt they arent well on top of things
 

Nikola

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For what it's worth, James Pearce said in his web chat at The Athletic earlier today that Lovren, Lallana and Shaqiri are likely to leave the club this summer and that the club are looking for another forward because of AFCON.
 

Sweeting

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For what it's worth, James Pearce said in his web chat at The Athletic earlier today that Lovren, Lallana and Shaqiri are likely to leave the club this summer and that the club are looking for another forward because of AFCON.
I've said it before that I think Nat Phillips will be our 4th choice next season.
 

Red over the water

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For what it's worth, James Pearce said in his web chat at The Athletic earlier today that Lovren, Lallana and Shaqiri are likely to leave the club this summer and that the club are looking for another forward because of AFCON.
Makes a lot of sense. The question is, how big? Someone to tide us over? Or a big player who will edge ahead of Origi in the pecking order and be the first option to rotate with the current front three?

Interesting times.
 

Nikola

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I've said it before that I think Nat Phillips will be our 4th choice next season.
I wish him nothing but the best, like to all the other Liverpool players, but I've already said that I don't think he's the answer to that (and, at this moment, neither are Koumetio, Hoever or Rhys Williams, they are far too inexperienced). I wouldn't mind Chirivella staying (if he went for the unlikely option and signed on with Liverpool), so that Fabinho could cover that fourth CB role if needed, though.

Makes a lot of sense. The question is, how big? Someone to tide us over? Or a big player who will edge ahead of Origi in the pecking order and be the first option to rotate with the current front three?

Interesting times.
I think that Origi won't be sticking around forever if I'm being honest, maybe two more years at best, he'll want to play regularly at some point in his career. He's far more suitable wide option than Shaqiri, though, and with Minamino likely covering for Firmino, maybe it will be a right winger? That said, I previously thought that Klopp would be targeting a player who was primarily a left winger but I completely took Origi out of the equation back then (I just didn't expect him to sign a new contract).
 

Red over the water

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It will be interesting to see what Origi does. If we sign another who moves ahead of him in the pecking order, he would be well within his rights to think about his career options.
 

redfanman

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I've said it before that I think Nat Phillips will be our 4th choice next season.
I only saw him in the Everton game but i thought he didnt look anywhere good enough to play in the premier league. Perhaps that was a one off, he will have learned from that experience, would play better alongside more first team regulars or would not get exposed as frequently - but the idea of him being 4th choice worries me.
 

Sweeting

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I only saw him in the Everton game but i thought he didnt look anywhere good enough to play in the premier league. Perhaps that was a one off, he will have learned from that experience, would play better alongside more first team regulars or would not get exposed as frequently - but the idea of him being 4th choice worries me.
He's better than Lovren.

But I agree he probably isn't truly good enough.

Doesn't stop him being an upgrade though. I'm not having all the "Lovren is a great player" bollocks. He isn't. He's slow, erratic and poor in possession. I've never seen a CB make more slide tackles (that's not a compliment Dejan stop smirking). He actively makes us worse.

Phillips is, at the very least, calm on the ball. He would make mistakes and probably cost us a few goals but he would be inoffensive to the rest of the team, sort of like Klavan.
 

FilthyBloke

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He's better than Lovren.

But I agree he probably isn't truly good enough.

Doesn't stop him being an upgrade though. I'm not having all the "Lovren is a great player" bollocks. He isn't. He's slow, erratic and poor in possession. I've never seen a CB make more slide tackles (that's not a compliment Dejan stop smirking). He actively makes us worse.

Phillips is, at the very least, calm on the ball. He would make mistakes and probably cost us a few goals but he would be inoffensive to the rest of the team, sort of like Klavan.
I’m agreeing with you that lovren isn’t great, but he’s probably the best 4th choice at any club in world football right now.
His qualities don’t really suit our system, and his time is really up, but I can’t agree with you that Phillips is better than him. Not by a mile.
 

Sweeting

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I’m agreeing with you that lovren isn’t great, but he’s probably the best 4th choice at any club in world football right now.
His qualities don’t really suit our system, and his time is really up, but I can’t agree with you that Phillips is better than him. Not by a mile.
He'd be a fabulous 4th choice at Crystal Palace. Sit deep, don't have to touch the ball, get a round of applause for charging out of position to win a header that didn't need to be made etc.

Hopefully they bid for him this summer and reunite the dream team with Sakho.
 

FilthyBloke

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He'd be a fabulous 4th choice at Crystal Palace. Sit deep, don't have to touch the ball, get a round of applause for charging out of position to win a header that didn't need to be made etc.

Hopefully they bid for him this summer and reunite the dream team with Sakho.
That’s his problem. His style is more suited to a deep lying defence. A Benitez or Houllier defender. I remember henchoz (and he certainly had a mistake in him) but his strengths were maximised in that counter attacking team.
Sadly (for lovren), we play high up the pitch so his lack of pace catches him out too often.
He just doesn’t suit our system. But he will leave us with a league title medal and I’ll wish him well wherever he goes.
 

ILLOK

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I would think that playing Phillips in the system we do would be very risky. He's a decent young centre half but if Lovren is unsuited to the way we play then Phillips definitely is. I'd think he'd be a very easy player to play against if you pulled him out into the channels as often happens with our central defenders.

I wouldn't mind Chirivella staying (if he went for the unlikely option and signed on with Liverpool), so that Fabinho could cover that fourth CB role if needed, though.

That said, I previously thought that Klopp would be targeting a player who was primarily a left winger but I completely took Origi out of the equation back then (I just didn't expect him to sign a new contract).
Much prefer Nik's idea here. Chirivella is a better player and Fabinho is certainly a better centre back than Phillips. If we're going to use an academy player, let it be this + Hoever/VdB as the 5th/6th choice.

As for the wide player situation, we've surely got more options for wide left than right? Origi and Chamberlain have played there this season to varying degrees of success, but the team has kept winning. Curtis Jones is a good young option from the left and the others like Firmino and Minamino can cut inside on the left too if used out there, even Brewster if he was to stay with our squad next season.

On the right it's Shaqiri who is first change but he's always injured. Elliot is probably next up and he's only 16. The other option is to bring Harry Wilson back in the summer and give him until the end of January 2021 to play for his Liverpool career. The obvious solution to me is to bring in a player who is comfortable on the right hand side of a front 3 and that'll give us plenty of options to use when Mane and Salah leave us in the lurch!
 

Sweeting

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I would think that playing Phillips in the system we do would be very risky. He's a decent young centre half but if Lovren is unsuited to the way we play then Phillips definitely is. I'd think he'd be a very easy player to play against if you pulled him out into the channels as often happens with our central defenders.

Much prefer Nik's idea here. Chirivella is a better player and Fabinho is certainly a better centre back than Phillips. If we're going to use an academy player, let it be this + Hoever/VdB as the 5th/6th choice.
I'm not actually advocating for Phillips to be given a run, but it is what I currently think will happen. Undoubtedly you're right that in that situation Fabinho would be the 4th choice CB in reality and Phillips would just hand around.

For me Phillips is a better passer and more composed than Lovren. I think the rationale with sending him to Stuttgart was to play in a team that will dominate possession - rather than one which has to defend too often - and he's done well in the passing games there (often reaching 90+ passes).

Putting myself in Klopp's shoes, and trying to understand how he thinks, I could see how he would be attracted to the idea of letting Lovren, on £120k a week, leave and bring Phillips, someone we 'saved' from dropping out of pro football and is probably on £10k a week maximum, if he thinks he could get a similar production from both of them which I don't think would be particularly difficult.

Phillips in the squad gives Hoever and van den Berg 12-24 months of development before being seriously called upon (especially as I don't believe Klopp likes to rely on teenagers).

So yeah I'm not saying Phillips is a great player who will be a good back up but I can see why the club/Klopp might prefer him to play that role than Lovren for a couple of years. Hardly any outlay and then can move him on at 24 years old when the two talented academy CBs are entering their early 20s.

I agree on Chirivella I think he's done very well. Still hasn't signed his new contract and must know he will be behind Fabinho and Henderson for the DM rotation - even on improved terms it's far from certain he will want to stay. His performances this season have probably earned him a move to a top 5 league as a starter.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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On CB I think @Mascot88 will get his long stated wish with @Sweeting being right in his prediction at the same time. We will have 3 main CBs contesting for starting roles in VvD, Gomez and Matip. An in squad cover option of dropping Fabinho back there (he was immense when he did it last time). A semi-experienced emergency cover option in Phillips and then the young hopefuls in Hoever and Van Den Berg. I don't think it's as simple as 1st, 2and, 3rd etc choice with Klopp just different tools and solutions he will turn to for what he thinks the situation calls for.

On the attacker situation my prediction is that Minamino, when fully settled, will already knock Origi down in priority order for Klopp and Origi will now get less games at CF due to it. I think that already creates a situation that gets Origi reconsidering his future. He extended when he had established himself as the first guy Klopp turned to after the defacto starters. If yet another new forward is being targeted I don't think Origi will want to stay much longer. I think as it currently stands he will have the best choice of clubs to move to that he's had in his career since he got to choose us. On what position the forward targeted plays I think it will be versatile but predominantly on the left. Mane and Salah both play world class standard on the right and we also have Elliott on the right too. Ox can do a job either side and although used on left so far I suspect Jones can too. But unlike Elliott Jones also is an option central. A left sided forward with Elliott on the right but who can also play on the right so Jones can play left would be the ideal I guess. Minamino is also an emergency option both sides too. That's how I think it anyway.
 

Nikola

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I would think that playing Phillips in the system we do would be very risky. He's a decent young centre half but if Lovren is unsuited to the way we play then Phillips definitely is. I'd think he'd be a very easy player to play against if you pulled him out into the channels as often happens with our central defenders.



Much prefer Nik's idea here. Chirivella is a better player and Fabinho is certainly a better centre back than Phillips. If we're going to use an academy player, let it be this + Hoever/VdB as the 5th/6th choice.

As for the wide player situation, we've surely got more options for wide left than right? Origi and Chamberlain have played there this season to varying degrees of success, but the team has kept winning. Curtis Jones is a good young option from the left and the others like Firmino and Minamino can cut inside on the left too if used out there, even Brewster if he was to stay with our squad next season.

On the right it's Shaqiri who is first change but he's always injured. Elliot is probably next up and he's only 16. The other option is to bring Harry Wilson back in the summer and give him until the end of January 2021 to play for his Liverpool career. The obvious solution to me is to bring in a player who is comfortable on the right hand side of a front 3 and that'll give us plenty of options to use when Mane and Salah leave us in the lurch!
My opinion is that Brewster will get another loan for the whole next season and that Wilson will get sold, maybe not this summer but the next one at the latest. In hindsight, Bournemouth move might be making of him because he's experiencing both Premier League football and Premier League relegation battle for the first time in his career but he just doesn't have the pace and forward's instincts to be a winger in Klopp's teams. Something similar goes for Grujić and Hertha, he wasn't the quickest thinking player, though I must admit that I haven't seen a game of his in two months, so I can't tell how he's doing but I still wouldn't be surprised if he was sold as well.

Elliott, Jones and Williams - looks like there won't be any loan moves considered for them, they are the next in line for promotion. Still, like you said, the drop-off from Salah to Elliott is much bigger than from Mane to Origi/Oxlade-Chamberlain, so this is probably where Klopp will look to strengthen. Knowing Klopp, I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn Kelleher into a right winger, though, and I'm only half-joking, but I guess this is where he'll strengthen by buying.

I've mentioned Ismaila Sarr a few times because I like him a lot (and apparently he's pretty close to Mane) and it got me thinking that Klopp said that moving AFCON will have an impact on his transfer dealings. I wonder if it didn't mean just "now I have to buy someone to cover for Mane and Salah" but also "now I can't buy that new African forward that I wanted to because he'll also be playing at AFCON".
 

legalalien

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I'm ignoring the other rumour on the BBC rumours page and I hope Bobby does too.

Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp has made Bayer Leverkusen's Germany international Kai Havertz, 20, his top midfield target this summer. (Express)

Klopp is considering bringing Barcelona's 27-year-old Brazil midfielder Philippe Coutinho - who is on loan at Bayern Munich - back to Anfield. (Star)

The Coutinho story is undoubtedly bollocks. Even if the club thought it was a reasonable price, I cannot see where he would fit in and 77 mil is a hell of a lot to pay for a misfit.
 

Iluvatar

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But I do think, yet again, how some fans focus way too much on signings and the transfer market as the default way to improve or maintain a football club.
It used to be fun working out how to improve the team, as you could make 9 changes and drastically improve it.. Now it's well just not as fun :)
 

LFCFFC

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Coutinho back to Liverpool has got to be one of the most uncreative bullshit rumours that'll undoubtedly start circulating more and more as we draw closer to the summer window.

At the same time...it would be fucking hilarious if we conned Barca into parting with £50m for what would essentially amount to a glorified loan spell where he spent two thirds of his time not even playing for them.

It's tempting.
 

Neukolln

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He's better than Lovren.

But I agree he probably isn't truly good enough.

Doesn't stop him being an upgrade though. I'm not having all the "Lovren is a great player" bollocks. He isn't. He's slow, erratic and poor in possession. I've never seen a CB make more slide tackles (that's not a compliment Dejan stop smirking). He actively makes us worse.

Phillips is, at the very least, calm on the ball. He would make mistakes and probably cost us a few goals but he would be inoffensive to the rest of the team, sort of like Klavan.
LOL, you got all that from watching Nat Phillips in the FA Cup match v Everton a few weeks back? “calm on the ball and would cost us a few goals”. Ok then. Nothing like hedging your bets.

If you don’t like Lovren, certainly you’re entitled, but Your proclamation on Nat Phillips is flat out silly.
 
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Sweeting

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LOL, you got all that from watching Nat Phillips in the FA Cup match v Everton a few weeks back? “calm on the ball and would cost us a few goals”. Ok then. Nothing like hedging your bets.

If you don’t like Lovren, certainly you’re entitled, but Your proclamation on Nat Phillips is flat out silly.
I've seen him quite a lot. He's 100% better in possession than Lovren. He probably isn't as good in the air and his positioning is what we would expect of a 22 year old signed from Bolton.

I've seen him play in our youth sides, for the 1st team (indeed including a game against Everton) and at Stuttgart. He's a good passer. A better passer than Lovren and in my opinion a better choice, for us, as a back up.
 

Neukolln

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I've seen him quite a lot. He's 100% better in possession than Lovren. He probably isn't as good in the air and his positioning is what we would expect of a 22 year old signed from Bolton.

I've seen him play in our youth sides, for the 1st team (indeed including a game against Everton) and at Stuttgart. He's a good passer. A better passer than Lovren and in my opinion a better choice, for us, as a back up.
That’s my point. You’ve seen him plenty in YOUTH SIDES. It’s just dumb to say he’s “better” than Dejan Lovren and/or would be a better fit in the senior side. When Nat Phillips logs his first 15 PL starts, let’s start talking.
 
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