The Unreliable Rumours Thread

The Hermit

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Personally dont think he is going anywhere. I find these discussions disturbing though because;

1; So many seem ok with the idea of losing him. Nobody in Liverpool's long, illustrious and successful history has scored at a better rate than him.

2; Nobody in the Premier League era for any team has had a season like his first with us. Not Ronaldo, not Henry, not Shearer. Some of the most prolific goal scorers of recent times have played in our league, he out did them all.

3; People still seem to have this "Well if the big clubs come calling...." attitude. Don't like it, never have but especially now. Let's get this straight we've turned a corner, we are a historically massive club, our 70s and 80s teams are up there amongst the best sides in the history of the sport. Currently we are operating as the best team in the world. We are the most likely candidate for a team that could have a period of real dominance in the sport. Some clubs, thanks to historic or current financial doping, have better finances than us but we have incredible revenues coming in that will be ever increasing the more successful we get and we are really savvy with our money.

4; Klopp thrives on having a settled squad. For all his lack of appreciation Salah is probably the forward Klopp can cope without the least as proven by him having to play through ankle injury pain.

We shouldn't and don't need to sell in an attempt to finance improvements to our near perfect squad. If we do we certainly shouldn't sell such a historically special, phenomenal, talent.
Understand what you're saying, but I think it's clear- despite all he has accomplished- that his form this season has not been the same and it sure feels like if he has ambition to play elsewhere that now is the time to cash in, get younger and potentially deeper at the same time. There have also been a few moments this season where his (perhaps) selfishness has created issues. I love Mo and all he has done for the club, but now may be the right time to part IF he's ready to perhaps leave.
 

Hope in your heart

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Understand what you're saying, but I think it's clear- despite all he has accomplished- that his form this season has not been the same and it sure feels like if he has ambition to play elsewhere that now is the time to cash in, get younger and potentially deeper at the same time. There have also been a few moments this season where his (perhaps) selfishness has created issues. I love Mo and all he has done for the club, but now may be the right time to part IF he's ready to perhaps leave.
Just addressing some of your points:
  • Salah has scored 18 goals (two more than Mané) and made 9 assists so far. On a whole season, that's roughly 25-30 goals. Not as many as in his first season with us, but still an impressive amount.
  • Forwards are selfish, they have to if they want to score goals. However, Mo's assist rate is impressive too and shows that he is able to pick out a team-mate.
  • Salah will move elsewhere if he asks for it. But nothing he has said or done so far suggests this. You never know in football, but I think it's a safe bet to say that he'll be with us next season.
 

Sweeting

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I feel like I say it a lot but... I have no idea why people are obsessed with the idea of getting younger players in to replace our front three.

Top goals and assists (combined) in Europe's top five leagues...

31 - Immobile - Lazio (30 years old)
26 - Lewandowski - Bayern Munich (31 years old)

26 - Sancho - Dortmund (19 years old)
26 - Werner - Leipzig (23 years old)
25 - Messi - Barcelona (32 years old)
23 - De Bruyne - Man City (28 years old)
22 - Vardy - Leicester (33 years old)
20 - Di Maria - PSG (32 years old)
20 - Ronaldo - Juventus (35 years old)
20 - Ben Yedder - Monaco (29 years old)


Of the top 10 only two players are younger than 28 years old (and they both play in Germany... make of that what you want). Our three haven't even reached their "peak" years yet but apparently people are OK with letting them go so we can be younger. I think many people make the mistake of thinking about "we can have our right wing sorted for the next 10 years" etc. It never happens that way. Live for today. Win trophies today.

In fact, keep reading down the list...

Mbappe, Lukaku, Rashford, Suarez, Muller, Benzema, Neymar, Aguero, Jimenez, Niederlechner, Mane, Reus, Ings, Salah, Ilicic, Osimhen, Abraham, Firmino, Gnabry, Aubameyang.

Eight of the next 20 names are under 28 years old. Two of them belong to us already.

In total, only 10 of the 30 most prolific players in Europe are under 28 years old. Of those 10, 5 play in the relatively "weaker" French and German leagues. Of the 5 playing in the 3 elite European leagues (England, Spain and Italy), Liverpool own 2 of them.

There is no need to get younger. If we really think Sancho or Werner or Snoop Doggy Dog is better than our current players then go ahead and replace them but if we are getting rid of Salah, Mane or Firmino because we want to "plan for the future" then we are ignoring the evidence all around Europe that they are likely to remain elite for years to come.
 
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Ahmed Hussain

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Very slim chance of course but I would find it banter if Sterling returns to Liverpool after the Man City situation lol.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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If we get Werner AND Sancho, I have absolutely no problem with Salah moving on. I, in fact, would be quite happy as well. Salah, despite his still scoring goals, just doesn't look the same this season. He has been frustrating to watch.
Salah got quite a limiting ankle injury. As we couldn't afford to build up the lead we have in the league he had to play through that injury instead of recuperating for a few weeks. That was the period he was closest to being disappointing. And he did that for us. Still only Vardy has more combined goals and assists than him in the league this year. Our success over the last 3 years has been as much down to him as anyone else in our squad. He's been essential since arriving in every season, including this one.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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At the end of the day there isn't a team in the world that wouldn't kill to have Salah playing for them... so why is there such a widespread, if not welcoming, then acceptance that he will leave?

If he wants to go I'm sure Klopp won't stand in his way, but unless that happens I wouldn't be making any moves to edge him closer to the door. The guy is an elite level player, will be for some years yet, and I'd rather he was playing for us than anyone else.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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At the end of the day there isn't a team in the world that wouldn't kill to have Salah playing for them... so why is there such a widespread, if not welcoming, then acceptance that he will leave?

If he wants to go I'm sure Klopp won't stand in his way, but unless that happens I wouldn't be making any moves to edge him closer to the door. The guy is an elite level player, will be for some years yet, and I'd rather he was playing for us than anyone else.
Exactly there are only 4 players on the planet who can even hope to be involved in a discussion of who are the best forwards of that type along with Salah. Two (Ronaldo and Messi) are into their 30s and would struggle to cut it in our league these days. One of the other two we already own in Mane. And the other is on his Mb-way.
 

Red over the water

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I feel like I say it a lot but... I have no idea why people are obsessed with the idea of getting younger players in to replace our front three.

Top goals and assists (combined) in Europe's top five leagues...

31 - Immobile - Lazio (30 years old)
26 - Lewandowski - Bayern Munich (31 years old)

26 - Sancho - Dortmund (19 years old)
26 - Werner - Leipzig (23 years old)
25 - Messi - Barcelona (32 years old)
23 - De Bruyne - Man City (28 years old)
22 - Vardy - Leicester (33 years old)
20 - Di Maria - PSG (32 years old)
20 - Ronaldo - Juventus (35 years old)
20 - Ben Yedder - Monaco (29 years old)


Of the top 10 only two players are younger than 28 years old (and they both play in Germany... make of that what you want). Our three haven't even reached their "peak" years yet but apparently people are OK with letting them go so we can be younger. I think many people make the mistake of thinking about "we can have our right wing sorted for the next 10 years" etc. It never happens that way. Live for today. Win trophies today.

In fact, keep reading down the list...

Mbappe, Lukaku, Rashford, Suarez, Muller, Benzema, Neymar, Aguero, Jimenez, Niederlechner, Mane, Reus, Ings, Salah, Ilicic, Osimhen, Abraham, Firmino, Gnabry, Aubameyang.

Eight of the next 20 names are under 28 years old. Two of them belong to us already.

In total, only 10 of the 30 most prolific players in Europe are under 28 years old. Of those 10, 5 play in the relatively "weaker" French and German leagues. Of the 5 playing in the 3 elite European leagues (England, Spain and Italy), Liverpool own 2 of them.

There is no need to get younger. If we really think Sancho or Werner or Snoop Doggy Dog is better than our current players then go ahead and replace them but if we are getting rid of Salah, Mane or Firmino because we want to "plan for the future" then we are ignoring the evidence all around Europe that they are likely to remain elite for years to come.
It's a good point you make about age, and I appreciate the analysis and thought in the post. We can't just sign players because they are young. And in a long list of players, many of the ones who are putting up good numbers of goals and assists are in their prime playing years and would not be considered youngsters by any means. So that point is well made.

But now let's get a little more specific with the two players under discussion here, Sancho and Werner... they are very near to the top of the list of goals/assists. They are delivering goals and assists at the highest level, with presumably many more years to come.

I completely agree that age cannot be the overriding factor for any signing we make. But if the all-important quality is there, AND the player is young, so will likely improve further and still have a high resale value in, say, five years time, then bring it on. Sancho and Werner tick those boxes.

If Mo stays it's hardly the booby prize. He's a smashing player, and if he stays, that's great. But if he wants to move on to a new challenge - it would have to be his initiation, because it would not sit right if the club pushed for it - then Sancho and Werner would be a great way to spend the money.
 
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Sweeting

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It's a good point you make about age, and I appreciate the analysis and thought in the post. We can't just sign players because they are young. And in a long list of players, many of the ones who are putting up good numbers of goals and assists are in their prime playing years and would not be considered youngsters by any means. So that point is well made.

But now let's get a little more specific with the two players under discussion here, Sancho and Werner... they are very near to the top of the list of goals/assists. They are delivering goals and assists at the highest level, with presumably many more years to come.

I completely agree that age cannot be the overriding factor for any signing we make. But if the all-important quality is there, AND the player is young, so will likely improve further and still have a high resale value in, say, five years time, then bring it on. Sancho and Werner tick those boxes.

If Mo stays it's hardly the booby prize. He's a smashing player, and if he stays, that's great. But if he wants to move on to a new challenge - it would have to be his initiation, because it would not sit right if the club pushed for it - then Sancho and Werner would be a great way to spend the money.
As I said in the original post, if we think Sancho or Werner are better than Salah or Mane etc then fine let's sign them. I just object to the idea that we need to start replacing our front three because they're too old when clearly they are not.
 

Red over the water

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I think Sancho is close to the level of Mane or Salah right now - still behind, but the sense is that the gap is closing as Sancho rises.

I don't think Werner is at their level.
 

Bonus

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As I said in the original post, if we think Sancho or Werner are better than Salah or Mane etc then fine let's sign them. I just object to the idea that we need to start replacing our front three because they're too old when clearly they are not.

I wouldnt say they are too old either, but our front 3 are going to need to be replaced eventually,

to leave it to the till they are all over the age of 30 might not be the best idea,
also i dont think they will all be replaced in 1 transfer window, instead it probably happen over a few seasons,

so when does the 'rebuild' begin?

and given it can take some time to get players fully up to speed and integrated into the team,
the 'rebuilding' might start sooner than we think.

for me it would start after next season, but will the players we want to replace our front 3 be available?

maybe this is also forcing our hand into starting the rebuild in the summer. if its happening at all that is!
 

Iluvatar

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If we ever lost one of the front three, even though he scores a hat full of goals I think to the team Salah would be the least of a loss, Sadio would be a massive loss and tough to deal with but losing Bobby that would break me, he is perfect foil for Klopp's system so if we did bring say Werner and Sancho in then if we lose Mo though a loss it would be like a band aid it will only hurt for a little while when you pull it off. For their age Sancho and Werner would be long term for the club.
Still reckon only Werner will come in out of the two though.
Crazy attitude, he is one of the best goal scorers in our history and the league history. Unless he wants to leave we do everything to keep him here as he is in the top 5 players in the world. Any player we got to replace him bar Mbappe is a downgrade at this point.

If we signed Sancho this summer and then Salah leaves the summer after that would be kinda ok as well.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Crazy attitude, he is one of the best goal scorers in our history and the league history. Unless he wants to leave we do everything to keep him here as he is in the top 5 players in the world. Any player we got to replace him including possibly Mbappe is a downgrade at this point.
My opinion mirrors yours with one slight change I've fixed.
 

Zoran

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Karius "coming back" just means that if he doesn't find a new club, he will start pre season with us. Pearce says Adrian is happy at LFC despite Betis' interest. Also according to him, the plan is to send Kelleher out on loan next season and Klopp needs to decide whether to keep Lonergan or not.
 

redfanman

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Karius "coming back" just means that if he doesn't find a new club, he will start pre season with us. Pearce says Adrian is happy at LFC despite Betis' interest. Also according to him, the plan is to send Kelleher out on loan next season and Klopp needs to decide whether to keep Lonergan or not.
Thanks. I wasnt expecting us to look to move Adrian on, or let Karius take his place as back up - I just wasnt sure what Adrian's thoughts were because i know he has strong feelings about Betis.
 

gasband

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Karius will not be happy to play back up at his age, and he will have better sell on value, so everything points at looking to sell him back. I think European teams will be happy to take him for less than 15m.
 

Nikola

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Maybe some German club would have him? He knows the league, he was pretty good at Mainz, for example, it's not a big transfer fee... I was kind of surprised that no German club wanted him two years ago, even if his reputation and self-confidence were shattered.
 

SithBaare

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Pretty sure we can hawk him off to the german or austrian bundesliga. Mainz would be ideal for him. He's still young enough in his career to make a comeback in a midtable - europa level club.
 

FilthyBloke

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I’d be surprised if we got more than 4m quid for karius.
His form for a couple of years now has been poor and his errors are pretty comical (to a neutral).
 

Red over the water

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The trajectory of a footballing career is a funny thing. Karius did well in Germany and seemed a canny acquisition by us. Never the best in the world, like an Alisson-level signing, but it looked good business for 4-5M.

When he broke into the team properly he played 19 Prem games and got 10 clean sheets. Then the ill-fated Champions League final happened. He got his bell rung and was probably concussed, and two errors later (plus Ramos ripping Mo’s arm off in a judo throw) it was all over.

Desperately disappointing on any number of levels.

Still, we circled the wagons and gave our man the nod in pre season. Unfortunately Karius couldn’t shake it off, and he kept making errors. Arguably, if he continued to be the goalkeeper who kept 10 clean sheets in 19 Prem games for us, he might still be our goalkeeper. But the errors were there, and he wasn’t able to leave adversity behind him and move on.

So... we acted decisively and brought Alisson in. You won’t find a single Liverpool fan who is not made up with Alisson’s contribution. He’s the best in the world. Absolutely brilliant. We have a couple of young goalies and Adrian as a solid back up. Karius went to Turkey on loan with a view to buy. I haven’t been following him closely, but clearly he hasn’t been doing well, or else they would keep him. It seems his career has stalled.

I can’t see why we would keep him, but his stock has fallen so low that we might only get 5M or so for him now. If/when he goes, good luck to him. He has the talent to be a high level goalie, but perhaps the mental fortitude isn’t there, at which point he will still make millions form the game, but won’t quite sustain it at the upper level.