The Unreliable Rumours Thread

DanLFC

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About as unreliable as it gets but would anyone be comfortable with us paying the 70 mil Wolves want for Traore.

Given the figures being thrown around for the likes of Harvetz and Sancho and even Werner’s release 70 mil for Traore seems like value.

Never thought i’d call a 70 mil deal value just FYI but he is a proven player. Every club has struggled with him this season including us.
 

GaryBarlow99

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About as unreliable as it gets but would anyone be comfortable with us paying the 70 mil Wolves want for Traore.

Given the figures being thrown around for the likes of Harvetz and Sancho and even Werner’s release 70 mil for Traore seems like value.

Never thought i’d call a 70 mil deal value just FYI but he is a proven player. Every club has struggled with him this season including us.
Lol no.
 

AussieLad

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About as unreliable as it gets but would anyone be comfortable with us paying the 70 mil Wolves want for Traore.

Given the figures being thrown around for the likes of Harvetz and Sancho and even Werner’s release 70 mil for Traore seems like value.

Never thought i’d call a 70 mil deal value just FYI but he is a proven player. Every club has struggled with him this season including us.
Would be tempted at 40-45M but 70M is way to much!
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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About as unreliable as it gets but would anyone be comfortable with us paying the 70 mil Wolves want for Traore.

Given the figures being thrown around for the likes of Harvetz and Sancho and even Werner’s release 70 mil for Traore seems like value.

Never thought i’d call a 70 mil deal value just FYI but he is a proven player. Every club has struggled with him this season including us.
I think Sancho at anything under 120 million is a better value deal than Traore at 70 million. Especially as Sancho would probably end up being less than 100 million on payment schedules and some of it made up in bonuses whilst Traore would be a one off lump sum payment to trigger the clause. Sancho is younger, a better fit and (as it might start having an effect on squad rules) homegrown. Hes also the more rounded player. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Traore wearing Real Madrid white next season though.
 

Walshy07

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About as unreliable as it gets but would anyone be comfortable with us paying the 70 mil Wolves want for Traore.

Given the figures being thrown around for the likes of Harvetz and Sancho and even Werner’s release 70 mil for Traore seems like value.

Never thought i’d call a 70 mil deal value just FYI but he is a proven player. Every club has struggled with him this season including us.
traores numbers just don’t equal £70m
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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So.... got some time on my hands, bit football starved, trying to distract myself. Looking at some comparisons on our players and some names that get bandied about, really the most simplistic of simple stat comparisons as I don't have the knowledge or capability of doing anything more in depth (anyone that can, please feel free). All numbers are per game so should hopefully be per 90;

Sadio Mane;
Tackles; 1.4.
Passes; 32.7.
Accuracy; 81%.
Key passes; 1.6.
Shots; 2.3.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 113 minutes.

Mohamed Salah;
Tackles; 0.4.
Passes; 30.3.
Accuracy; 76.3%.
Key passes; 1.8.
Shots; 3.9.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 106.5 minutes.

Adama Traore;
Tackles; 1.1.
Passes; 20.2.
Accuracy; 75.5%.
Key passes; 1.1.
Shots; 1.2.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 197.5 minutes.

Wilfried Zaha;
Tackles; 1.3.
Passes; 30.3.
Accuracy; 80.6%.
Key passes; 1.
Shots; 1.5.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 363.5 minutes.

Timo Werner;
Tackles; 0.7.
Passes; 27.9.
Accuracy; 77.4%.
Key passes; 1.3.
Shots; 3.6.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 74 minutes.

Jadon Sancho;
Tackles; 0.4.
Passes; 46.
Accuracy; 84.9%.
Key passes; 1.9.
Shots; 1.8.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 69 minutes.

Mbappe;
Tackles; 0.3.
Passes; 29.3.
Accuracy; 81.7%.
Key passes; 1.7.
Shots; 3.8.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 50.5 minutes.

What does this mean for discussions on who would fit us better as an alternative to Mane and Salah? Not a fucking clue. Got bored half way through and only finished out of stubbornness.
 

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Limiescouse

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@Kopstar what are your thoughts on Article 17 of FIFA's transfer regulations?

This is a little used (understatement) provision that allows players to unilaterally terminate their contract without cause after 3 years. The player is essentially free to conduct himself as a free agent, but the club that signs would still have to pay compensation to the club he left. There are stories circulating that Barca are investigating the possibility of using this to get Neymar out of PSG. They know they'll still have to pay a big fee, but it forces PSG's hands and takes away their power to say no. The issue, as Ive seen it explained, is there is so little precedent, especially for a player of Neymar's caliber that it is anyone's guess who much the compensation would be. Barca are widely reported to already have to generate 60 million euro in sales this summer just to avoid FFP penalties and took on debt to purchase Griezmann last year, and so are in no position to be forced to pay the 150 million it still might cost them. The precedent that does exist for clubs no paying the compensation is a world ban for the player and a possible 2 year transfer suspension for the club.

If Neymar was 24 I might understand exploring this, but he's a 30 year old who has not had an injury free season since about 2014.
 

Kopstar

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@Kopstar what are your thoughts on Article 17 of FIFA's transfer regulations?

This is a little used (understatement) provision that allows players to unilaterally terminate their contract without cause after 3 years. The player is essentially free to conduct himself as a free agent, but the club that signs would still have to pay compensation to the club he left. There are stories circulating that Barca are investigating the possibility of using this to get Neymar out of PSG. They know they'll still have to pay a big fee, but it forces PSG's hands and takes away their power to say no. The issue, as Ive seen it explained, is there is so little precedent, especially for a player of Neymar's caliber that it is anyone's guess who much the compensation would be. Barca are widely reported to already have to generate 60 million euro in sales this summer just to avoid FFP penalties and took on debt to purchase Griezmann last year, and so are in no position to be forced to pay the 150 million it still might cost them. The precedent that does exist for clubs no paying the compensation is a world ban for the player and a possible 2 year transfer suspension for the club.

If Neymar was 24 I might understand exploring this, but he's a 30 year old who has not had an injury free season since about 2014.
Yes, I've mentioned this before...

The only concern I would raise with regard to Henderson is that he's outside of his protected period and does, therefore, have a de facto release clause under Article 17. Of course the geniuses in our in-house legal team would be aware of that though...you'd like to think (have my doubts).
Because outside of a player's protected period (for Neymar this ends this summer) Article 17 acts as a de facto release clause.

It does not, however, act to excuse tapping up. The fundamental point of the sanctity of contracts still applies. So Barcelona (or whoever) do need to be careful about how much they encourage Neymar to take this course of action (other than to assure him they'd pay any compensation that would subsequently be assessed).

Is your question more to do with how that compensation is arrived at?
 

Limiescouse

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Yes, I've mentioned this before...



Because outside of a player's protected period (for Neymar this ends this summer) Article 17 acts as a de facto release clause.

It does not, however, act to excuse tapping up. The fundamental point of the sanctity of contracts still applies. So Barcelona (or whoever) do need to be careful about how much they encourage Neymar to take this course of action (other than to assure him they'd pay any compensation that would subsequently be assessed).

Is your question more to do with how that compensation is arrived at?
I was thinking more along the line of whether this technical option is really considered a viable one. It seems the risks are huge for a club with very little financial flexibility.
 

Kopstar

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I was thinking more along the line of whether this technical option is really considered a viable one. It seems the risks are huge for a club with very little financial flexibility.
I guess a potential advantage is that the payment they're required to make is somewhat deferred given that if agreement cannot be reached it has to go to arbitration! It's viable - but the ramifications for getting it wrong are pretty serious for both club and player so it is not something that is often pursued in practice. I've heard of it used as a threat though for the purpose of negotiations either to encourage a player's club to agree to a transfer or to give him improved terms (thereby renewing the protected period), or where a club is refusing to agree to a release clause or whatever. It's unusual for this to be presented as something that Barcelona are considering though - you'd rather (from a player and buying club's point of view) agitation like this came from the Player's side.
 

DanLFC

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So.... got some time on my hands, bit football starved, trying to distract myself. Looking at some comparisons on our players and some names that get bandied about, really the most simplistic of simple stat comparisons as I don't have the knowledge or capability of doing anything more in depth (anyone that can, please feel free). All numbers are per game so should hopefully be per 90;

Sadio Mane;
Tackles; 1.4.
Passes; 32.7.
Accuracy; 81%.
Key passes; 1.6.
Shots; 2.3.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 113 minutes.

Mohamed Salah;
Tackles; 0.4.
Passes; 30.3.
Accuracy; 76.3%.
Key passes; 1.8.
Shots; 3.9.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 106.5 minutes.

Adama Traore;
Tackles; 1.1.
Passes; 20.2.
Accuracy; 75.5%.
Key passes; 1.1.
Shots; 1.2.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 197.5 minutes.

Wilfried Zaha;
Tackles; 1.3.
Passes; 30.3.
Accuracy; 80.6%.
Key passes; 1.
Shots; 1.5.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 363.5 minutes.

Timo Werner;
Tackles; 0.7.
Passes; 27.9.
Accuracy; 77.4%.
Key passes; 1.3.
Shots; 3.6.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 74 minutes.

Jadon Sancho;
Tackles; 0.4.
Passes; 46.
Accuracy; 84.9%.
Key passes; 1.9.
Shots; 1.8.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 69 minutes.

Mbappe;
Tackles; 0.3.
Passes; 29.3.
Accuracy; 81.7%.
Key passes; 1.7.
Shots; 3.8.
Goal involvement (goal or assist) every 50.5 minutes.

What does this mean for discussions on who would fit us better as an alternative to Mane and Salah? Not a fucking clue. Got bored half way through and only finished out of stubbornness.
Interesting stats those think we need make an allowance for weaker German and French League vs the EPL

Still impressive figures though a goal or assist every game was unheard of production only a few years ago when Messi and Ronaldo where the only ones to hit anything approaching that marker.

Thanks for the breakdown and the few minutes distraction that went with it.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Interesting stats those think we need make an allowance for weaker German and French League vs the EPL

Still impressive figures though a goal or assist every game was unheard of production only a few years ago when Messi and Ronaldo where the only ones to hit anything approaching that marker.

Thanks for the breakdown and the few minutes distraction that went with it.
I think to get anything really meaningful out of it you need a better person than me to do a proper look. Like playing positions, speed of run/dribble, heat maps in various positions, do they close down and press (won't/shouldn't always lead to a tackle), distance covered etc etc. My feelings have, for awhile, been that Sancho and Mbappe are the two closest to being able to adapt to the kind of roles Klopp needs his wide players to function in. Both are creative, fast, hardworking, goal threats who can start wide and come in attacking the box. Both have the pace to punish opposition if given space to move into but tricky and technical enough to still make something happen when opposition drop deep and crowd the box. Both able to link up play and pass and move with their teammates. I'm less convinced on Werner who seems a better Origi but still someone who doesn't replicate what we get out wide, even though, like Origi can, he would probably get on the scoresheet a lot. Zaha and Traore would just be poor, but still semi useful, options to replicate some of what Mane or Salah bring out wide for us but obviously nowhere near quality enough to give Klopp a selection headache when everyone is fit.
 

costared

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I see Pearce thinks we will keep Adrian. Maybe so, he had some good games early on but has cost us recently. Whatever happens with him we will need a third choice who could possibly challenge Adrian. I suspect Kelleher may go out on loan next season to get some senior experience in the way Grabara has this season.Personally I thought Grabara was the better prospect of the two and I look forward to seeing him in pre season games if there is such a thing next season.
 

DanLFC

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Think your right mate from what Ive seen of Werner he looks a better version of Origi better movement off the ball, more pace better finishing but his link up and creativity against crowded areas certainly isn’t at the level we have currently.

With that said he is 23 and has made significant strides the last two seasons so no reason to think he couldnt continue to improve his game in the same way Mane and Salah have improved their game whilst with us. He does excel at putting the ball in the back of the net which is a skill we sometimes lack so surrounded by better players, better coaches etc hopefully we can take him to the next level.

As regards Sancho and Havertz I like them both alot both are better all round players than Werner but are they worth double + the outlay of Werner not sure and it’s easier to keep a 50 mil player in a rotational role than a 100 mil player.

In terms of Zaha wouldnt touch him but Traore, for a reasonable fee, say less than 50 mil I would definitely take that for sure. He genuinely strikes fear into defenders. To rotate or sub for our front 3 I think we could do a lot worse.

Mbappe would be the dream but I just cant see how we can afford it without one of Salah or Mane moving in the other direction.

Thanks for keeping this discussion going. Would encourage anyone else to get involved its certainly keeping me sane in challenging times. Defo prefer thinking about the future and what lies ahead for the club when normal life resumes than what is going on right now
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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Thanks for keeping this discussion going. Would encourage anyone else to get involved its certainly keeping me sane in challenging times. Defo prefer thinking about the future and what lies ahead for the club when normal life resumes than what is going on right now
Thanks, just trying to use this place as a distraction.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Not sure of that in the next couple of years......In light of the current economic chaos, surely there is a hit to firstly player wages and then transfer fees.

Will be a very interesting transfer window when the world reopens.
Was thinking this. A lot of clubs will have lost a lot of revenue. To bring in more some of them will definitely need to make sales. Maybe we will see values drop a fair bit across the board due to this.
 

DanLFC

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Think you are both right there had to be a correction in the market at some point.

I thought fees where inflated and out of control and then PSG paid 200 mil for Neymar and things just went even more crazy.

It would be a good result to get back to even pre Neymar deal fees.

When all this clears up the rebound should be pretty quick. I imagine clubs will be playing twice a week for a few months to catch up on lost fixtures and revenues. People will be champing at the bit to get out and watch their fav team after all this isolation.
 

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I wonder how much the current crisis will have an effect on current transfer fees and on wages in the future. We could look at a steep correction downwards, isn't it?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I think one thing that will happen is the longer this goes on the more some clubs are going to get into real difficulty financially. After this clubs may become more careful about how they operate. A lot of them will be in or close to being in administration when this blows over unless they've had support some way.
 

cynicaloldgit

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Speckydodge

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Even prem teams though because you'd imagine there is tricky waters ahead re the tv contracts they have signed up to. I know the teams are paid at the end of the season but they spent in the knowledge that there's that crazy guaranteed sum coming , but is it guaranteed now?
Villa for example have spent 143m according to transfermarkt with little in from departures.