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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

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Dave-D

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As tenuous as it gets but if the price is right I'd be interested in a deal for Dembele like Bayern had with Coutinho, loan with option to buy at this price the following summer. There is very little wrong with him on the pitch, its possible attitude and fitness issues. If Klopp could get his head right and the medical team keep him firing he could reclaim his lost potential which is that of a top ten forward. It seems better than either going without reinforcement up top or signing a mega money deal in a disturbed environment. If it doesn't work out we back out of buying him. If it works out but the market is cheaper so the price no longer looks value for money we pull an Italian job and offer a new deal.

Has he recovered from his last injury lay off???
He reminds me of Sturridge mainly because both are made of quavers
 

Iluvatar

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Even at £50m, it would be a hell of a gamble. I’m not sure that the club would be keen to take him on.

There is undoubtedly a quality player there, but I remember we all said that about Balotelli.
It is a gamble but he would be ideal to cover Mane/Salah. A better fit than Werner for me, but yes huge doubts over his attitude and injuries.
 

Red over the water

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The loan with a view to buy discussion on O. Dembele is intriguing. Definitely an elite talent, so we might be the ones to unlock it, bit if not, the financial risk is small. Then again, there would still be a loan fee and high wages to cover.

Compare contrast, for illustration. Werner comes in and gives us 8/10 week in week out. Doesn't start every game but sees plenty of action, has a great attitude, works hard, scores goal, fights for his place and is good to have around.

Dembele comes in and gives us 9/10 one week, 5/10 the next, and is injured the next! Ha fails to mature and still does too many stupid things. But possibly worst of all, while we invested the time to see if the lad might make something of himself, a better option went to another club.

I suppose it's why Jurgen gets paid the big bucks. Edwards and the others too. Can Dembele realistically show us his best? Or is it too much of a long shot now, as he has lost his way?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The loan with a view to buy discussion on O. Dembele is intriguing. Definitely an elite talent, so we might be the ones to unlock it, bit if not, the financial risk is small. Then again, there would still be a loan fee and high wages to cover.

Compare contrast, for illustration. Werner comes in and gives us 8/10 week in week out. Doesn't start every game but sees plenty of action, has a great attitude, works hard, scores goal, fights for his place and is good to have around.

Dembele comes in and gives us 9/10 one week, 5/10 the next, and is injured the next! Ha fails to mature and still does too many stupid things. But possibly worst of all, while we invested the time to see if the lad might make something of himself, a better option went to another club.

I suppose it's why Jurgen gets paid the big bucks. Edwards and the others too. Can Dembele realistically show us his best? Or is it too much of a long shot now, as he has lost his way?
But you're comparing them like they are even. Both will command some sort of transaction fee (loan fee/signing bonus) and wages (which could be the same or similar) but Werner would require a £50 million outlay. At a time when economies are collapsing around the world, people could still be dying and clubs may be going under or facing possibilities of going under. Even if we come through in a strong position and are able to what would we look like completing such a deal? And the market may be in flux for at least a year, the deal for Werner may look massively overpriced by the time things have calmed down.
 

Red over the water

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But you're comparing them like they are even. Both will command some sort of transaction fee (loan fee/signing bonus) and wages (which could be the same or similar) but Werner would require a £50 million outlay. At a time when economies are collapsing around the world, people could still be dying and clubs may be going under or facing possibilities of going under. Even if we come through in a strong position and are able to what would we look like completing such a deal? And the market may be in flux for at least a year, the deal for Werner may look massively overpriced by the time things have calmed down.
It's a tempting thought, which is why Klopp and Edwards make the big bucks. It wasn't that long ago that Dembele was a very desirable player, and it could be great business, especially on a try before you buy sort of deal.

I'm just putting up Werner as a comparison as we are credibly linked to him. If instead we went for Dembele, not least to buy some time to assess the longer term impact of the current crisis, we might miss out a solid and reliable performer in Werner, in preference for a maybe/long shot player in Dembele.

Risk comes with any signing, etc. but the numbers Werner has been putting up consistently for a while show a different trajectory to Dembele's career of the past two seasons.

However... I fully back whatever we do, and the people making those decisions absolutely know what they are doing. If Dembele happened in the sort of way described, it would be an intriguing prospect. If we were the ones to help get him on track then it would be a massive coup.
 

ILLOK

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Dembele is (or was, depending on the level he returns at) undoubtedly a better, more talented player than Werner but has had 4 or 5 serious hamstring injuries over a 2 year period. It would be mental to spend any money on him based on that alone, not to mention his behaviour. Werner has never suffered a significant injury. Given the choice of either Werner would be the better option.

All theoretical, I don't think we should be signing either under the circumstances.
 

Dutch

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I would be surprised if we would buy any player this summer, in fact I would be happy if nobody leaves. The money will be tight for all clubs especially if they can not finish the season but beginning a new season without the fans in the stations would be another big blow too.

No, I would be really surprised if we would buy anybody.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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It's a tempting thought, which is why Klopp and Edwards make the big bucks. It wasn't that long ago that Dembele was a very desirable player, and it could be great business, especially on a try before you buy sort of deal.

I'm just putting up Werner as a comparison as we are credibly linked to him. If instead we went for Dembele, not least to buy some time to assess the longer term impact of the current crisis, we might miss out a solid and reliable performer in Werner, in preference for a maybe/long shot player in Dembele.

Risk comes with any signing, etc. but the numbers Werner has been putting up consistently for a while show a different trajectory to Dembele's career of the past two seasons.

However... I fully back whatever we do, and the people making those decisions absolutely know what they are doing. If Dembele happened in the sort of way described, it would be an intriguing prospect. If we were the ones to help get him on track then it would be a massive coup.
I was kind of working under a circumstance that we aren't buying this summer expectation. Werner might still come (although I've always believed the desire is more on the players side than ours, otherwise why constantly vocal about it all? We do things quiet.). But I think it more likely, if we even have a window at all, that we hold back till next year. If that is what happens then its a choice between going with what we have or going with what we have plus maybe loans and/or very cheap deals or even bosmans. If that is the choice I don't see Dembele on a loan with an option to buy for a low price in 2021 as harming us in any way. We still have what we have. We can still sign the same players in 2021. It just gives us an chance to see if there is something salvageable there and if there is get a brilliant player for a snip (which we might even try and negotiate the agreed fee down further as often happens, the agreed figure would kind of be a maximum). It was only ever musing by my, the speculative link was about a purchase this summer. Will be surprised if we buy anyone expensive this summer. Can also see a situation in which Dembele and Griezmann end up at PSG in exchange for Neymar going back to Barca.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I would be surprised if we would buy any player this summer, in fact I would be happy if nobody leaves. The money will be tight for all clubs especially if they can not finish the season but beginning a new season without the fans in the stations would be another big blow too.

No, I would be really surprised if we would buy anybody.
This... but still believe Lovren is gone no matter what.
 

redfanman

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I would be surprised if we would buy any player this summer, in fact I would be happy if nobody leaves. The money will be tight for all clubs especially if they can not finish the season but beginning a new season without the fans in the stations would be another big blow too.

No, I would be really surprised if we would buy anybody.
I'm surprised the club announced that it was no longer negotiating contracts for existing squad members. Incoming transfers i can easily understand the potential problems, but keeping Wijnaldum for a bit longer seemed a no brainer for me?
 

costared

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I'm surprised the club announced that it was no longer negotiating contracts for existing squad members. Incoming transfers i can easily understand the potential problems, but keeping Wijnaldum for a bit longer seemed a no brainer for me?

Assuming that is what Gini wants. Personally I would like us to sign Werner and a Robertson cover. I do not think any of the young left backs we have are up to it yet but would love to be proved wrong
 

GermanRed

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I'm surprised the club announced that it was no longer negotiating contracts for existing squad members. Incoming transfers i can easily understand the potential problems, but keeping Wijnaldum for a bit longer seemed a no brainer for me?
When was that announced? :oops:
 

ILLOK

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Assuming that is what Gini wants. Personally I would like us to sign Werner and a Robertson cover. I do not think any of the young left backs we have are up to it yet but would love to be proved wrong
I agree. I think it might be worth experimenting with moving Hoever or Williams over there as cover every now and then, at least if Milner isn't available (and we don't buy, obviously). It's not ideal with them being right footed but they are both much better than Larouci and Lewis.
 

nikz200

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We would probably be expected to take Dembeles wages on. We have done this before with players like Nuri Sahin. If you are saying its between signging Werner and Loaning Dembele (presumably with a loan fee attached as well) and let us assume there is no loan with intention to sign clause in there. We would just be grooming dembele for him to then say "Im going back to barca, fuck you Liverpool" Again, if its a financial thing and a loan is the way to save money here, then by all means. I kinda feel we have been down this path with Aquilani and Nuri Sahin and Balotelli...... albeit none of those guys were under this current regime, so maybe i need to have faith in our manager, DOF and the rest of the staff.
 

Limiescouse

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I agree. I think it might be worth experimenting with moving Hoever or Williams over there as cover every now and then, at least if Milner isn't available (and we don't buy, obviously). It's not ideal with them being right footed but they are both much better than Larouci and Lewis.
A lot of people cannot get their head around it, but 9 times out of 10 a good player "out of position" is considerably better than an ok player in his best position.

There is also something to be said that in the modern game, with wide players looking to go in-to-out rather than down the line, you can defensively protect a young FB by putting him on the "wrong side." If you remember, this is the idea that Rafa used in deciding to put Arbeloa on the left to combat Messi in 2007, precisely because it meant that when Messi cut inside (which he always did) he was having to face up to Arbeloa's strong side.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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A lot of people cannot get their head around, but 9 times out of 10 a good player "out of position" is considerably better than an ok player in his best position.

There is also something to be said that in the modern game, with wide players looking to go in-to-out rather than down the line, you can defensively protect a young FB by putting him on the "wrong side." If you remember, this is was Rafa did with Arbeloa on the left to combat Messi in 2007, precisely because it meant that when Messi cut inside (which he always did) he was having to face up to Arbeloa's strong side.
We also did it a bit with Glen Johnson there.

And am I imagining it, or did Flanagan play a bit on the left as well?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We would probably be expected to take Dembeles wages on. We have done this before with players like Nuri Sahin. If you are saying its between signging Werner and Loaning Dembele (presumably with a loan fee attached as well) and let us assume there is no loan with intention to sign clause in there. We would just be grooming dembele for him to then say "Im going back to barca, fuck you Liverpool" Again, if its a financial thing and a loan is the way to save money here, then by all means. I kinda feel we have been down this path with Aquilani and Nuri Sahin and Balotelli...... albeit none of those guys were under this current regime, so maybe i need to have faith in our manager, DOF and the rest of the staff.
Well the idea was always to see if Klopp could get his attitude right (along with the medical team getting to grips with his issues) so if he turns out to still be that type of player then the answer would be a firm "no" and we still buy whatever player we are currently planning on buying in 2021. Whoever that player is (Sancho/Werner/other) they will still want high wages, maybe as high or higher than Dembele's £175k a week. Bayern paid Barca less than £8m in loan fee I seriously doubt we can get as good a player in a perm deal for that and then a player signed permanently can't just be shown the door so easily when we need room to introduce whoever our 2021 signing is. If we are looking at a minimalist window this year (like I think we will and should) and waiting till next I see us moving forward with one of three options;
1. Go with what we have including some players that may be on loan with minimal departures.
2. Go with what we have but make a Klavan style cheap purchase to see us through this sticky situation.
3. Go with what we have but have a creative look at players we really liked at some point that could still potentially fit our needs but aren't in the plans of their owning clubs. Guys like Dembele, Draxler and Lemar could be made available on loans with options to buy in 2021.

Option 3 for me is intriguing as we don't lose anything and it would only stop us going for whatever we plan in 2021 if both the loaned player lives up to potential and no unexpected departures happen. I see no problem with either getting to the end of the year and saying "thanks but no thanks" or saying "well it wasn't our plan but the guy has been too good to not take him now"! Not to mention that by 2021 all three of Firmino, Salah and Mane would have been with us a long time, won everything and we can't guarantee one of them won't be looking to move on by then.
 

nikz200

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Well the idea was always to see if Klopp could get his attitude right (along with the medical team getting to grips with his issues) so if he turns out to still be that type of player then the answer would be a firm "no" and we still buy whatever player we are currently planning on buying in 2021. Whoever that player is (Sancho/Werner/other) they will still want high wages, maybe as high or higher than Dembele's £175k a week. Bayern paid Barca less than £8m in loan fee I seriously doubt we can get as good a player in a perm deal for that and then a player signed permanently can't just be shown the door so easily when we need room to introduce whoever our 2021 signing is. If we are looking at a minimalist window this year (like I think we will and should) and waiting till next I see us moving forward with one of three options;
1. Go with what we have including some players that may be on loan with minimal departures.
2. Go with what we have but make a Klavan style cheap purchase to see us through this sticky situation.
3. Go with what we have but have a creative look at players we really liked at some point that could still potentially fit our needs but aren't in the plans of their owning clubs. Guys like Dembele, Draxler and Lemar could be made available on loans with options to buy in 2021.

Option 3 for me is intriguing as we don't lose anything and it would only stop us going for whatever we plan in 2021 if both the loaned player lives up to potential and no unexpected departures happen. I see no problem with either getting to the end of the year and saying "thanks but no thanks" or saying "well it wasn't our plan but the guy has been too good to not take him now"! Not to mention that by 2021 all three of Firmino, Salah and Mane would have been with us a long time, won everything and we can't guarantee one of them won't be looking to move on by then.
I agree with your Option 3 outlook, Draxler for me is past what he was before so i wouldn't really think he can match the tempo we currently want to play at, but Lemar could be interesting for sure if we are for those guys. If we do go for option 3 i wouldn't mind us getting Lemar or someone along that line. But for me whoever we sign for this loan option needs to be available. Thats my only real big issue with Dembele. His attitude and stuff is a concern yes, but if he is present , gets fit and pushes for a first team place, he would have already justified the loan amounts for me.

Even if we sign 1 guy i think it helps our squad greatly, even 1 signing loan or otherwise would bolster this squad and add a fresh aspect, but yeah, i understand nothing could happen too.
 

Sweeting

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A lot of people cannot get their head around it, but 9 times out of 10 a good player "out of position" is considerably better than an ok player in his best position.

There is also something to be said that in the modern game, with wide players looking to go in-to-out rather than down the line, you can defensively protect a young FB by putting him on the "wrong side." If you remember, this is the idea that Rafa used in deciding to put Arbeloa on the left to combat Messi in 2007, precisely because it meant that when Messi cut inside (which he always did) he was having to face up to Arbeloa's strong side.
Defensively that's true, it's not a problem. The issue with doing it in our system is we rely on the width of the wing backs and those early crosses. It's a touch harder if they need to turn inside to cross it.

It's certainly doable, not ideal.
 

Limiescouse

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Defensively that's true, it's not a problem. The issue with doing it in our system is we rely on the width of the wing backs and those early crosses. It's a touch harder if they need to turn inside to cross it.

It's certainly doable, not ideal.
I acknowledge the point, but as true as it is it also falls into the fallacy of thinking what is true now is way things must be. Any replacement we have to bring as back up to Trent or Robbo will be downgrade far more because the have quality that are impossible to replace with a back up than because the back up doesnt have the eaxact same strengths and weaknesses. It's worth remembering that for all the absurd productivity we have got from our FBs the last 2 years, that trend didnt start with these two, but with Milner the year before, playing on that "wrong side" and frequently choosing to cut it back to his stronger foot before putting the ball in.
 

Iluvatar

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I acknowledge the point, but as true as it is it also falls into the fallacy of thinking what is true now is way things must be. Any replacement we have to bring as back up to Trent or Robbo will be downgrade far more because the have quality that are impossible to replace with a back up than because the back up doesnt have the eaxact same strengths and weaknesses. It's worth remembering that for all the absurd productivity we have got from our FBs the last 2 years, that trend didnt start with these two, but with Milner the year before, playing on that "wrong side" and frequently choosing to cut it back to his stronger foot before putting the ball in.
Isn't it why having a left back who can play winger is more desirable? Against the weaker teams (where you can rest Robbo), you need his attacking output not his defensive side.

That to me is why I think Saka must be of interest - He was a winger before being made a fullback, so should have the understanding of overlapping, crossing fast/early, passing with intent forward etc.
 

gasband

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Just too many non football issues to handle with Dembele to make it worth its while. He is a talented young player, but there are many at his level possibly at 50-80 mil pounds and lesser attitude issues to overcome probably.
 

costared

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Defensively that's true, it's not a problem. The issue with doing it in our system is we rely on the width of the wing backs and those early crosses. It's a touch harder if they need to turn inside to cross it.

It's certainly doable, not ideal.

It can also be a problem defensively. Often a player that is one footed is not just reluctant to pass with his weak foot but also to tackle with it preferring to try to wrap his good foot around and opponent an usually missing the tackle or fouling. Obviously it will depend om the ability of the opponent to exploit the weakness but one thing for sure no matter how good a one footed player is he can always improve his game by improving his weaker foot. It is only a matter of practice and confidence.
 

redbj

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We also did it a bit with Glen Johnson there.

And am I imagining it, or did Flanagan play a bit on the left as well?
Martin skrtel as well.

Remember he played fullback vs Middlesbrough way back in the day....

Memory is a bit sketchy, but I’m sure he would have bossed it............err
 

GermanRed

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Martin skrtel as well.

Remember he played fullback vs Middlesbrough way back in the day....

Memory is a bit sketchy, but I’m sure he would have bossed it............err
Ragnar - sorry - King Ragnar Klavan also played LB :censored:
 

Zoran

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Martin skrtel as well.

Remember he played fullback vs Middlesbrough way back in the day....

Memory is a bit sketchy, but I’m sure he would have bossed it............err
Yeah, played RB at Boro away, few days after we won in Madrid and had to make a lot of changes.

But I'd say Arbeloa was put at LB with a plan, the others much more because we had no other option (Glen played LB against Atletico, but then Masch had to play RB, it was pure need, not some tactical genius to fool the opponent). Flanno also came in because we needed someone, but he proved with time that his performances were perhaps even better at LB than RB at the time. Maybe he was comfortable defending the inside, not needing to bomb forward much, use his right foot to have more options to pass to from the left, etc. Right place, right time, I'd say. Not something you'd plan/wish/repeat.
 

ptt

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From the BBC:
Liverpool midfielder Pedro Chirivella, 22, has been offered a five-year deal but is yet to decide on his future, having received interest from Nantes and Rangers. (Goal)

Liverpool are considering a summer move for Roma forward Nicolo Zaniolo, 20, who is also a target for Manchester United and Tottenham. (Corriere dello Sport - via Sports Mole)

Meanwhile, it is claimed Liverpool had already made steps on a potential move for Zaniolo before the coronavirus pandemic halted football. (Il Tempo - in Italian)
 

Dave-D

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From the BBC:
Liverpool midfielder Pedro Chirivella, 22, has been offered a five-year deal but is yet to decide on his future, having received interest from Nantes and Rangers. (Goal)

Liverpool are considering a summer move for Roma forward Nicolo Zaniolo, 20, who is also a target for Manchester United and Tottenham. (Corriere dello Sport - via Sports Mole)

Meanwhile, it is claimed Liverpool had already made steps on a potential move for Zaniolo before the coronavirus pandemic halted football. (Il Tempo - in Italian)
Seen an article about Zaniolo to Liverpool and it said he was on a list of Liverpool targets but not a top target.
Roma also have to sell player a due to the €270+ million of debt they are in.
 
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