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The Unreliable Rumours Thread

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Anfield rd Dreamer

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We should judge each player on their own individual merits. I'm not sure there is anyone left at either Roma or Southampton worth buying, maybe Zaniolo. As well as Salah and Allisson, and Van Dijk and Mane, we also have the likes of Borini, Aquilani, Lambert, Clyne. Lallana and Lovren land somewhere in the middle.

Salzburg and Leipzig play aggressive, attacking football and often dominate games which theoretically lends itself well to transferring over here. On the flip side to that you could argue that it makes certain players look better than they are given the fact it's a lot easier to score in Germany and Austria. I've already posted a million times about Werner, so I will skip over him, but Nkunku, Schick, Forsberg and Sabitzer have impressive stats too and I don't think any of them would come close to replicating those here. Angelino, the lad who couldn't get a game at left back for City, looks like a world beater in Nagalsmann's system.

The one player I do like is Laimer. Leipzig have a lot of players who don't do much out of possession (Werner, Schick, Nkunku, Angelino, Olmo) and Laimer seems to hold it all together in that midfield whilst being able to play a bit too. I could see him slotting into the 6 or 8 in our system.

Edit: Atalanta are an example similar to Leipzig. They play some great football, incredibly attacking. They have 3 or 4 players who are scoring goals at better than 1 every 90 minutes. Are those top players? No, they're just playing in a system that allows them to score a lot. They still fail to win too many games.
Agreed on looking at each player on individual merits but think you maybe being a bit harsh on Roma.

Mancini seems like an interesting option if we were needing to look for a new CB (personally not sure we would need to even if Lovren left). At fullback they've actually got two players who might be able to cover both Trent and Andy being able to play both sides in Santon and Spinazzola. Diawara could be a DM option if we needed one and Kluivert is young enough to be interesting. Under could still realise the potential he seemed to have too. No stand out options maybe but that just keeps the price down, I think a few that could become real good players in the right circumstances.
 

Nikola

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Still, it's more appealing to buy a player from a Bundesliga title challenger (or at least a shoe-in for top four finish) than from a midtable Southampton side - and the money is usually similar. Consistent experience of being right in the midst of a title challenge and playing in Champions League, as well as similar playing styles or a similar tactical base, so to speak, should theoretically mean that the player is less likely to flop at a club like Liverpool. Compare that to purchases of Benteke, Lambert, Balotelli, buying Lallana and playing him on the flank...

I'm almost ready to give up on Keita solely because of his injury issues, nothing else. He had maybe two bad games for Liverpool and those were in League Cup if my memory serves me right, he was very good in all the others. Clyne was a successful transfer for me on almost all accounts, club got him cheap, they knew what they wanted from him and that's what he gave them. Unfortunately, his transfer was too similar to Enrique's, he got played into the ground and when the first injury struck, there was no turning back. Also, there was a big change in playing style and one that he probably wouldn't have been able to ease himself into even if he had stayed fit.

One important thing to remember is that this is probably the first time in two decades that Liverpool are buying players as England's top club, not one that is trying to break into/stay in the top four. The list of players who are both available and who would improve the starting XI is extremely short at this moment. Every player Liverpool buy will have to go through a period of acclimatisation and accept the fact that they won't be first choice for a while but that they will be called upon and expected to perform when the need arises. Maybe that's why players from Salzburg and Leipzig are obvious choices for Liverpool, there's a pretty decent mix of nice character traits, skill, physical endurance and tactical basis that is more similar to Klopp of three years ago than now - but still relevant enough to be used as a strong foundation of that player's future success at Liverpool.
 

ILLOK

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Agreed on looking at each player on individual merits but think you maybe being a bit harsh on Roma.

Mancini seems like an interesting option if we were needing to look for a new CB (personally not sure we would need to even if Lovren left). At fullback they've actually got two players who might be able to cover both Trent and Andy being able to play both sides in Santon and Spinazzola. Diawara could be a DM option if we needed one and Kluivert is young enough to be interesting. Under could still realise the potential he seemed to have too. No stand out options maybe but that just keeps the price down, I think a few that could become real good players in the right circumstances.
I don't watch the Serie A so you might be right. Still, when we bought Allison and Salah Roma were a really good side. Now, not so much from looking at the table.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I don't watch the Serie A so you might be right. Still, when we bought Allison and Salah Roma were a really good side. Now, not so much from looking at the table.
Hey I'm a far way from being an expert too just thinking that it might be a place where some diamonds could be extremely well hidden. Looking at players like Robertson and Wijnaldum the performance of the team isn't always reflected by the quality of the player involved. Thats my thinking anyway.
 

nikz200

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Liverpool have submitted a loan with option to buy proposal to Barcelona for French winger Ousmane Dembélé in recent days. [
@DiMarzio
- via
@GFFN
]

Do we do medicals for loan transfers? Cause if we do, i doubt this guy gets past the CT scan with all his injuries.
 

Richard88

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I read this article, its not really rocket science or very in depth more just a very casual, easy read that points out some superficial aspects.


It got me thinking though, has/is recruiting from the RB clubs the instant win this article seems to suggest? Minamino has been here only 5 minutes so its harsh to rate him so soon but he certainly hasn't taken to us like a Duck to water. Keita has had loads of issues with settling in, injuries have definitely hindered him but he hasn't yet made the easy transition the article suggests. The only former RB player who has is Mane who, as the article glosses over, spent time at Southampton in-between.

So far the clubs we've had the most success with recruiting from under Klopp are Southampton and Roma.

We've had a chequered past with Southampton recruitment and probably not a great idea to go back there (for a start they seem quite tapped out in terms of talent) but under Klopp we got Mane and VvD from there, they started playing from day one and instantly impressed. Southampton do try and do some good things sporting wise and that's led to some good elements to the players we've bought from there.

Roma have, sometimes, done some good things football wise and both Salah and Alisson got to play in such a way that really set them up well to come here and perform from day one as well. They have both a good collection of players (some semi under the radar despite their talent) and seeming financial issues.

Is it just me that isn't too keen on the idea of tapping into the RB squads for recruitment? Would be much more keen on Roma.
I would disagree about us having a "chequered past" with Southampton. I think our recruitment from there has been rather good, apart from Lambert.

- Clyne: A solid defensive RB. A relative bargain at the price we got him at (compared to the price for Shaw for example).
- Van Dijk: World class.
- Lovren: Has had injury issues and the odd brain-fart, but overall he's been a pretty solid CB for us.
- Lallana: Has had injury issues, but there's no doubting that he's performed admirably when he's been fit.
- Mané: World class.
- Lambert: A dumb signing right from the off, made mostly for sentimental reasons.

That's 2 world class players, 3 solid squad players who all had their moments as deserved starters, and a low-risk gamble that didn't work out. All-in-all that's pretty solid recruitment from one club.

That said, I agree that there's probably no point in going back there now as Southampton do seem "tapped out" as you said.
 

redfanman

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I would disagree about us having a "chequered past" with Southampton. I think our recruitment from there has been rather good, apart from Lambert.

- Clyne: A solid defensive RB. A relative bargain at the price we got him at (compared to the price for Shaw for example).
- Van Dijk: World class.
- Lovren: Has had injury issues and the odd brain-fart, but overall he's been a pretty solid CB for us.
- Lallana: Has had injury issues, but there's no doubting that he's performed admirably when he's been fit.
- Mané: World class.
- Lambert: A dumb signing right from the off, made mostly for sentimental reasons.

That's 2 world class players, 3 solid squad players who all had their moments as deserved starters, and a low-risk gamble that didn't work out. All-in-all that's pretty solid recruitment from one club.

That said, I agree that there's probably no point in going back there now as Southampton do seem "tapped out" as you said.
Lambert was a decent signing if we look at him in isolation. The problem was the balance in the squad, particularly in regards to a lack of pace and focus.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I would disagree about us having a "chequered past" with Southampton. I think our recruitment from there has been rather good, apart from Lambert.

- Clyne: A solid defensive RB. A relative bargain at the price we got him at (compared to the price for Shaw for example).
- Van Dijk: World class.
- Lovren: Has had injury issues and the odd brain-fart, but overall he's been a pretty solid CB for us.
- Lallana: Has had injury issues, but there's no doubting that he's performed admirably when he's been fit.
- Mané: World class.
- Lambert: A dumb signing right from the off, made mostly for sentimental reasons.

That's 2 world class players, 3 solid squad players who all had their moments as deserved starters, and a low-risk gamble that didn't work out. All-in-all that's pretty solid recruitment from one club.

That said, I agree that there's probably no point in going back there now as Southampton do seem "tapped out" as you said.
And if you look at just transfers under Klopp its 100% world class transfers from them.
 

redfanman

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I read this article, its not really rocket science or very in depth more just a very casual, easy read that points out some superficial aspects.


It got me thinking though, has/is recruiting from the RB clubs the instant win this article seems to suggest? Minamino has been here only 5 minutes so its harsh to rate him so soon but he certainly hasn't taken to us like a Duck to water. Keita has had loads of issues with settling in, injuries have definitely hindered him but he hasn't yet made the easy transition the article suggests. The only former RB player who has is Mane who, as the article glosses over, spent time at Southampton in-between.
I think that is really harsh. Keita had a difficult start early on in part because he was played in a different position than he was used to. When he did settle he got into a great run of form. That has happened 2 or 3 times now. Injuries have clearly hampered him, but isnt the teams performance record better in games he plays in?

Again, Minamino came in with little time to adjust, really strange to use him as an example.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I think that is really harsh. Keita had a difficult start early on in part because he was played in a different position than he was used to. When he did settle he got into a great run of form. That has happened 2 or 3 times now. Injuries have clearly hampered him, but isnt the teams performance record better in games he plays in?

Again, Minamino came in with little time to adjust, really strange to use him as an example.
Well isn't that the whole point in the article? Shopping from the RB clubs mean the players can come in and adapt better? Keita still isn't settled, he has had some great games here and there but I wouldn't say he is settled yet. Same with Minamino. Some of our non-RB signings have settled in from day 1 and performed from the off. So I just don't think the evidence backs up the theory in the article.
 

redfanman

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Well isn't that the whole point in the article? Shopping from the RB clubs mean the players can come in and adapt better? Keita still isn't settled, he has had some great games here and there but I wouldn't say he is settled yet. Same with Minamino. Some of our non-RB signings have settled in from day 1 and performed from the off. So I just don't think the evidence backs up the theory in the article.
Keita has settled.

How many of the non RB signings went straight into the side without a pre-season? It's a somewhat ludicrous discussion to have one way or another off just two players but more so when one of those has only just joined.
 

Dave-D

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Do we do medicals for loan transfers? Cause if we do, i doubt this guy gets past the CT scan with all his injuries.
Don’t think he’d even make it to the medical, would hurt himself getting off the plane
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Keita has settled.

How many of the non RB signings went straight into the side without a pre-season? It's a somewhat ludicrous discussion to have one way or another off just two players but more so when one of those has only just joined.
You think he is settled then thats up to you and your opinion I personally don't think he has. I didn't write the article about how easy it was to shop from RB as their players are ready to assimilate into our squad. You look at Klopps signings and about half have gone straight in and played/settled from day one. The two from RB aren't amongst them. The two from Roma and the two from Southampton are 100% successful at settling in from day 1.
 

Richard88

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I don't know if Leipzig/Salzburg deserve to be singled out as our prime "source" of players. It seems to be more of trend that we shop from the Bundesliga in general rather than any one particular club.

Yes, Mané, Minamino, and Keita did come through RB's teams, but we've also targeted/signed players from Hoffenheim (Firmino); Leverkusen (we tried to sign Brandt and may have interest in Havertz); Borussia Monchengladbach (Dahoud); Schalke (Matip); and Mainz (Karius).

I think it's more a case of Leipzig having some particular young players that interest us, but those things will go in cycles, just as it did with Southampton being well-stocked with youngsters and then tapering off after a few years of selling their best players.

It's also likely that RB will become a bit more savvy with contracts going forwards, and thereby lower the chances of losing players for under their market value (eg. Minamino). And when they do Edwards will likely look elsewhere for bargains.
 

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You think he is settled then thats up to you and your opinion I personally don't think he has.
What makes you think he hasnt settled?

I didn't write the article about how easy it was to shop from RB as their players are ready to assimilate into our squad. You look at Klopps signings and about half have gone straight in and played/settled from day one. The two from RB aren't amongst them. The two from Roma and the two from Southampton are 100% successful at settling in from day 1.
From day 1? Those other players came in and had a proper pre-season. It can be argued for many of them that they came in with the express purpose of filling a starting berth. Neither of these apply to Minamino.

Keita did come in and play from week 1. No doubt there was some adjustment required for the physicality of the league, but he also ended up having to play out of position on the left for a number of them before he finally found his form again.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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What makes you think he hasnt settled?



From day 1? Those other players came in and had a proper pre-season. It can be argued for many of them that they came in with the express purpose of filling a starting berth. Neither of these apply to Minamino.

Keita did come in and play from week 1. No doubt there was some adjustment required for the physicality of the league, but he also ended up having to play out of position on the left for a number of them before he finally found his form again.
So there was some adjustment required, was there any adjustment needed for Salah, Alisson or Mane? No. You've admitted that there was some adjustment required which was kind of the whole point I was making. Van Dijk came mid season like Minamino.
 

Red over the water

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The Ousmane Dembele loan to buy link is interesting, if it has any legs. We talked about that in here a couple of weeks back, and while there are obvious concerns over injuries, and maybe slightly over maturity, the risk-reward seems to stack up. Low risk if he doesn’t make the grade here, for whatever reason... but high reward if he does.
 

Iluvatar

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The Ousmane Dembele loan to buy link is interesting, if it has any legs. We talked about that in here a couple of weeks back, and while there are obvious concerns over injuries, and maybe slightly over maturity, the risk-reward seems to stack up. Low risk if he doesn’t make the grade here, for whatever reason... but high reward if he does.
I think his legs have gone.
 

Sweeting

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The Ousmane Dembele loan to buy link is interesting, if it has any legs. We talked about that in here a couple of weeks back, and while there are obvious concerns over injuries, and maybe slightly over maturity, the risk-reward seems to stack up. Low risk if he doesn’t make the grade here, for whatever reason... but high reward if he does.
I'd rather give Elliott the game time to be honest. We'd be paying massive wages to a player who has struggled to stay fit, had major off field issues and has only ever really hinted at his talent.

Only one league season with more than 9 goals (in France).
 

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I'd rather give Elliott the game time to be honest. We'd be paying massive wages to a player who has struggled to stay fit, had major off field issues and has only ever really hinted at his talent.

Only one league season with more than 9 goals (in France).
My position as well. We have an outstanding young talent in Elliot. A player every club in the world were apparently trying to sign. We need to get him meaningful games.
 

Richard88

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The Ousmane Dembele loan to buy link is interesting, if it has any legs. We talked about that in here a couple of weeks back, and while there are obvious concerns over injuries, and maybe slightly over maturity, the risk-reward seems to stack up. Low risk if he doesn’t make the grade here, for whatever reason... but high reward if he does.
Loan-to-buy deals could be very common in the next couple of transfer windows as teams will be apprehensive of spending big before the market has defined itself again.

That said, I think Edwards would be hesitant to make a deal like that unless there are favourable buying terms at the end of the loan, as I'm not sure it makes business sense to give a player playing time and coaching to raise his profile without benefitting from it at the end of the year.
 

Iluvatar

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My position as well. We have an outstanding young talent in Elliot. A player every club in the world were apparently trying to sign. We need to get him meaningful games.
Jones and Elliot look excellent in the snippets of training I’ve seen so far. Anyone not thinking we will give them a chance clearly doesn’t know Klopp and his method.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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There will be plenty of game time for Elliott and Jones even if AFCON and/or domestic cups don't go ahead this season. If Shaqiri and Lallana go there definitely will be enough for one or two others too. As it stands its Origi but it could include Wilson too. Ox and Keita had to cover further up too often last year. If Werner comes in I'd expect Origi may want to move on. In fact Origi may want to move on anyway. We might need Brewster in the squad next season. With Salah, Mane, Firmino and Minamino for 3 or 4 positions depending on formation there is definitely room for Elliott, Jones plus one or two others. If AFCON and domestic cups are played next season there's not just room its essential that we either bring someone in or keep Origi and maybe one of Shaqiri/Wilson.
 

Red over the water

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If it’s a binary choice, give Elliot some game time and help him grow into the star we hope he will be, OR rehabilitate a damaged-goods Dembele, in the hope that the risk/reward stacks up and we might yet come out of that one well, then obviously you go with Elliot all day long.

That’s if it is a binary choice. This or that.

Perhaps we can do both, especially if a little room is made with one or two departures like Lallana and Shaqiri.

Edit:
Im not necessarily burning a candle for Dembele, just intrigued by the possibility. We know Klopp liked him a while ago, but the price spiraled out of control and he went to Barcelona and lost his way. It will be interesting to see if he can make something of himself. If it is to happen, he needs to play under a man like Klopp.
 

costared

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If it’s a binary choice, give Elliot some game time and help him grow into the star we hope he will be, OR rehabilitate a damaged-goods Dembele, in the hope that the risk/reward stacks up and we might yet come out of that one well, then obviously you go with Elliot all day long.

That’s if it is a binary choice. This or that.

Perhaps we can do both, especially if a little room is made with one or two departures like Lallana and Shaqiri.

Edit:
Im not necessarily burning a candle for Dembele, just intrigued by the possibility. We know Klopp liked him a while ago, but the price spiraled out of control and he went to Barcelona and lost his way. It will be interesting to see if he can make something of himself. If it is to happen, he needs to play under a man like Klopp.

I don´t think Klopp will want Dembele around again. I am sure he had enough of him at Dortmund. Dembele showed what sort of character he is when Barca showed their interest and he stopped turning up for training and it was said at the time that he trashed the house he was renting from Klopp.
 
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