The Unreliable Rumours Thread

Anfield rd Dreamer

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KLOpp does not believe Harry Wilson can contribute to this team and its proven in these non stop loan deals. Harry wilson himself does not want to be in a rotation wheel. I don't think Ryan Fraser has shown he can be someone of use to us so i don't think he is the answer, but clearly the club and Klopp and his staff don't believe in Harry Wilson, he is a surplus and a after thought to this team and how we set up. The truth is the majority of these youth players are developed to be sold for profit to other teams and to spread our imprint of Liverpool football club amongst the other teams. you won't have a team filled with academy graduates filling up the squad. Take Chelsea for example, no matter how much Tammy Abraham,Mason Mount and to some extent players like Billy Gilmour and others have impressed for them, they can't even defend their spot as Chelsea splashed the cash for Ziyech and Werner to take their spots. This is how big teams behave, this is how things are done and forever it will be done this way.
I still stand by what I said. If its a straight choice between Ryan Fraser and Harry Wilson I'm choosing Wilson every time. If its a choice between an empty squad place and Wilson I'd be keeping him for now too. In fact at this stage if its a choice between Wilson and Shaqiri (as much as I love Shaqiri and always wanted him here) its Wilson for me. Wilson is still young enough that it is not impossible for him to learn other elements to his game but even if he doesn't he'd still be a useful player here and there especially if we've swapped to a 4231 for (starting) or during a game (coming off the bench). Don't get me wrong I don't believe Wilson will be able to adapt into a real useful option for the way we play and in normal circumstances I'd be looking at a big signing coming in. Just these aren't normal circumstances and its silly and possibly dangerous if we just Bury our heads in the sand and act like they are.
 

Zoran

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Fraser's a likeable little player when he's on it (didn't seem like he coped with all the rumours in the last season or so), but he's not our level. Not even on a free. He's not a wide forward. He's more like a versatile, hard working little winger or wide midfielder. Could maybe be a WB as well depending on the side, like a Giaccherini. That's how I see him. He was a nice surprise, but when he improved in Bournemouth perspective. I guess he might go to a better side now, but I don't see room for a player like that in our roster. We're a top side, we can't afford giving contracts to almost anyone. I know fans will always like a free option, but the reality is that most of them won't be good enough. Werner wasn't the only solution (or Sancho or Mbappe), but we can do better than Fraser for sure.
 

Mascot88

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The reason is simple, its because people are already getting the excuse cart out for why we cannot buy players.
Excuse cart? Mate, we’re about to head into a global recession, if not a full on depression, and football clubs can’t even be sure what the next 12 months holds.

This pandemic will probably cost LFC at least £100m. If there was ever a time to exercise extreme caution with spending its now.
 

Neukolln

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Just need to find a player X. Dembele would be a great shout if he wasn’t made of quavers:rolleyes:
Well, I for one hope that player is Harry Wilson. I agree with @Anfield rd Dreamer.

I’ve heard (and understood) the dissenting viewpoint for Wilson of mismatched “system fit” but after having seen him have success at Bournemouth all season I’m not so sure I agree with that anymore. Seems a trite, regurgitated, cliche to say about young Harry at this point. IMO he can play in this system and is a viable solution for our squad, with PL experience. Homegrown too. Whether JK likes him or not is a different story I suppose. But I absolutely love the lad and the passion he has for LFC.
 

nikz200

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Well, I for one hope that player is Harry Wilson. I agree with @Anfield rd Dreamer.

I’ve heard (and understood) the dissenting viewpoint for Wilson of mismatched “system fit” but after having seen him have success at Bournemouth all season I’m not so sure I agree with that anymore. Seems a trite, regurgitated, cliche to say about young Harry at this point. IMO he can play in this system and is a viable solution for our squad, with PL experience. Homegrown too. Whether JK likes him or not is a different story I suppose. But I absolutely love the lad and the passion he has for LFC.
If Klopp shows faith in Harry Wilson and doesn't send him out on loan again then fine, lets see how he does. However, its been long touted now that both Grujic and Harry Wilson are being viewed as assets the club can cash in on this coming summer. They will not feature in the clubs long term plan moving forward. The very fact that we even considered signing Werner is proof that Klopp doesn't want Wilson.

Look obviously its not something that is 100%. Maybe Jurgen may change his mind and keep wilson, the same way he kept brewster around. But will Wilson feature in any games? Given Jurgens selection trends in major games, i highly doubt Wilson will feature. Jurgen probably favours Origi more than Wilson as even a option for the wings. I also think personally for Wilson, he has the chance to start regular football for a team like Bournemouth. He definitely has no desire to sit on the Liverpool bench and wait for playing time. Especially when he is looking at playing for Wales regularly at the national level.

Passion for LFC is great, and I'm glad he loves the club, its a trait we want in all players, however players in general look out for themselves and i honestly have reservations to say that he "loves" the club. Being in Liverpool is a high profile case for these players, it also puts them in the public eye. This was not the case throughout a lot of the 2000s and 2010s where players were demanding to exit from us left and right. Players who can contribute sure we should keep, players who need to be moved on should leave. Cause i guarantee you if we were mid table or doing poorly, most of these young players would want to join united , city or chelsea, there would be no love or loyalty. (bobby Duncan)
 

Walshy07

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Wilson’s free kicks and set pieces are excellent but his in game play needs to improve dramatically if he wants to play for us. He can’t have 20 mins here and there where he disappears which is what he has done when he played for us and if you ask Derby and Bournemouth fans they’d say the same. At one point this season he was benched by Bournemouth as he wasn’t doing enough other than wake up when a free kick was given.

I like him but I’m not sure he is good enough from what I have seen. I’d love him to make it but I personally don’t think he will. Same with Grujic. Who knows, Maybe Covid19 will force us to play them if we can’t afford anyone.
 

nikz200

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Excuse cart? Mate, we’re about to head into a global recession, if not a full on depression, and football clubs can’t even be sure what the next 12 months holds.

This pandemic will probably cost LFC at least £100m. If there was ever a time to exercise extreme caution with spending its now.

Im not questioning this point neither am i belittling the fact there could be a serious financial implication yet to be seen yet. Its ok to show constraint, but even you have to admit, Chelsea spending has shown that you can spend money without overspending. Im not saying the club needs to spend millions upon millions. But i am saying this "idea" of everything will be ok if we just maintain the current squad and just put in youth players to solve everything is a naive and idealistic mindset to have especially given this is the 3rd season (or 4th) we are using the same squad again. There are free transfers, there are loan moves, there are smart purchases we can make to strengthen this club and it doesn't have to made at HUMOUNGOUS cash expenses that will hamper the club financially. They were ready to offer Werner 150K a week to bring him here, and your saying now that we missed out on one player, we should just trust the youth and "go again" with the same squad and same front three which has been worked to death? Cmon man, even you have to know its a recipe for long term disaster.

What I'm trying to say when i say the squad lost to Watford and Athletico is that, lets be honest, we will be figured out. No team can go 3 years in a row with the same sort of form and not expect to be tripped up. The Arsenal invincible were found out eventually as well. I will use United as a example, say what you want about Old Red Nose up in Manc land , but he didn't always get the best targets or best transfers year after year, but he spent every season, refreshing his team in some fashion. He bought in role players and made them work for Uniteds long term success , and thats how they over took us in a flash. The old man kept his core together but was never afraid to buy new players and freshen up his squad in some fashion even if it wasn't world record signings or 100 mil players. His teams always had some new approach and kept themselves relevant so that even if teams figured them out and lost games, they crawled back into the season with some new concept and won the league. Look at Spurs, not spending has decimated them , especially in positions that matter, that is also mainly down to poor decisions being made off the field as far as player personnel and deciding to prioritise the bloody new stadium they have over on field success.

Tactically also we are playing a high line which means more and more counter teams will have success against us. It just might become the new norm for teams to counter us to depth or bring in players who are suited to defeating our system. Can we adjust? Jurgen Klopp is a smart coach so I'm sure we will come up with a plan for that, but one of the ways to counter a plan like this against us is to bring in some more firepower so when our front 3 is out of ideas, we can have diversity in attack and some fresh energy. Last season we had Origi be that option, but he is quite inconsistent thats why its important to try and bring a option 4 into the fold, whatever the method, it doesn't have to be huge purchase.
 
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Mascot88

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Im not questioning this point neither am i belittling the fact there could be a serious financial implication yet to be seen yet.
You are though. Coronavirus poses an existential threat to football teams. Any business with no income for several months will be in serious trouble. We don’t know what will happen to the 20/21 season.

Its ok to show constraint, but even you have to admit, Chelsea spending has shown that you can spend money without overspending.
Chelsea are able to commit that money because they still have £90m sitting there from the Hazard sale that they could not spend last year due to their transfer ban.

Im not saying the club needs to spend millions upon millions. But i am saying this "idea" of everything will be ok if we just maintain the current squad and just put in youth players to solve everything is a NAIVE and weak mindset to have especially given this is the 3rd season (or 4th) we are using the same squad again.
The current squad are currently 25 points clear at the top of the league. There is nothing NAIVE about thinking they are really, really good.

As for running them into the ground, they have just had three months off work. I wouldn’t worry about it. That’s more rest than they’ve had for years.

There are free transfers, there are loan moves, there are smart purchases we can make to strengthen this club and it doesn't have to made at HUMOUNGOUS cash expenses that will hamper the club financially.
Right, so why are you kicking off about Werner?

The club will of course be interested if a deal can be done. I personally thought Werner was a done thing, but I understand fully why the club don’t want to at this time. In fact, I am glad that the owners are being sensible. It’s far better than committing 100m to Werner and football getting scrapped again next year. We’re already looking at a season with no matchday income

They were ready to offer Werner 150K a week to bring him here,
Clearly they weren’t ready to do that, or he’d be a red now.

and your saying now that we missed out on one player, we should just trust the youth and "go again" with the same squad and same front three which has been worked to death?
No, I’m not saying that. If the club find a deal that can be done, I’m OK with that.

I’m also OK with the club going into next season with the same squad as last season if necessary.

What I'm trying to say when i say the squad lost to Watford and Athletico is that, lets be honest, we will be figured out.
A team that has dropped five points in 29 games is not close to being ‘figured out’, whatever that means. It doesn’t matter what teams have figured out, they still have to find a way to deal with it. As I keep saying, we’re really, really good

I’m all for bringing in players to freshen up the squad. Like Minamino for example, who everyone seems to have forgotten about.

Tactically also we are playing a high line which means more and more counter teams will have success against us. It just might become the new norm for teams to counter us to depth or bring in players who are suited to defeating our system. Can we adjust?
They do that already. There would be nothing new in teams sitting back and trying to hit us on the counter

Jurgen Klopp is a smart coach so I'm sure we will come up with a plan for that, but one of the ways to counter a plan like this against us is to bring in some more firepower so when our front 3 is out of ideas, we can have diversity in attack and some fresh energy. Last season we had Origi be that option, but he is quite inconsistent thats why its important to try and bring a option 4 into the fold, whatever the method, it doesn't have to be huge purchase.
I’m glad you brought up Klopp, because whenever fans have this meltdown when we don’t sign a player, I wonder who they think has been managing us for the last three years.

Klopp wants to coach players, bring through youth and improve what he has. He will go to the market when he has to.

But it’s as if, for some fan, football is about who signs the most players, and then some footy happens in between windows. I’ve seen Chelsea fans crowing about Werner (and it’s not done yet) like it doesn’t matter that we’re so far ahead of them I can’t even be bothered to look them up.

The priority for this summer (?) has to be to keep the squad together, and there are suggestions from some close to the club that the club are focussing on long term deals for the likes of Van Dijk and Alisson.

I’d like to see some back up to Robbo, and an upgrade on Origi. Normally I’d be suggesting we fund that by selling Wilson, Origi, Shaqiri, Grujic etc. But there is no guarantee that this market will be there. I can’t see anyone dropping 20m on Origi right now. Everything has changed. We can’t act like it hasn’t.
 

Nikola

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can’t sell all those and not replace them. The worry is we might not get what we originally wanted. The likes of Bournemouth don’t have £45m to spunk on shite like Solanke, Ibe and Smith anymore.
From that list, it's obvious that only Origi and Lovren would have to be replaced with players of higher calibre. Shaqiri barely played last season and his minutes will easily go to Elliott or even Jones (the former is closer to being a like-for-like replacement), even though I appreciate Shaqiri's qualities and some big game contributions that get overlooked. Clyne has effectively been replaced by Neco Williams, while Lallana's in-house replacement could and should be Jones as no matter how much Klopp values Lallana's professionalism and leadership, he'll want to play regularly after barely featuring for three years.

As for Karius, Grujić and Wilson, come on, mate, they didn't get a minute for Liverpool over the course of past two seasons, it's a public secret that they won't make the grade at Liverpool. You can't replace what you never had, the only question is whether Liverpool can navigate through post-coronavirus chaos and come out unscathed. I'd wager a guess that Karius will be sold to a Bundesliga club for roughly what Liverpool paid for him, while these two will get another season out on loan before a decision is made on them next season, hopefully in a healthy and more financially stable environment. I think the same goes for Awoniyi.
 

Walshy07

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From that list, it's obvious that only Origi and Lovren would have to be replaced with players of higher calibre. Shaqiri barely played last season and his minutes will easily go to Elliott or even Jones (the former is closer to being a like-for-like replacement), even though I appreciate Shaqiri's qualities and some big game contributions that get overlooked. Clyne has effectively been replaced by Neco Williams, while Lallana's in-house replacement could and should be Jones as no matter how much Klopp values Lallana's professionalism and leadership, he'll want to play regularly after barely featuring for three years.

As for Karius, Grujić and Wilson, come on, mate, they didn't get a minute for Liverpool over the course of past two seasons, it's a public secret that they won't make the grade at Liverpool. You can't replace what you never had, the only question is whether Liverpool can navigate through post-coronavirus chaos and come out unscathed. I'd wager a guess that Karius will be sold to a Bundesliga club for roughly what Liverpool paid for him, while these two will get another season out on loan before a decision is made on them next season, hopefully in a healthy and more financially stable environment. I think the same goes for Awoniyi.
don’t shoot the messenger!
 

Dave-D

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Well, I for one hope that player is Harry Wilson. I agree with @Anfield rd Dreamer.

I’ve heard (and understood) the dissenting viewpoint for Wilson of mismatched “system fit” but after having seen him have success at Bournemouth all season I’m not so sure I agree with that anymore. Seems a trite, regurgitated, cliche to say about young Harry at this point. IMO he can play in this system and is a viable solution for our squad, with PL experience. Homegrown too. Whether JK likes him or not is a different story I suppose. But I absolutely love the lad and the passion he has for LFC.
If he was that player he wouldn’t be out on loan just now. Also don’t agree he’s been that successful at Bournemouth either. He drifts out of games and then only pops up when there’s free kicks in dangerous area’s.

Hasn’t done enough in my eyes to say he’ll not only make the step up but also be a rotation option for Mane and Salah.

There’s also the constant speculation that he’s being sold and at no point has Klopp put those stories to bed saying he’s not being sold.
 

nikz200

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You are though. Coronavirus poses an existential threat to football teams. Any business with no income for several months will be in serious trouble. We don’t know what will happen to the 20/21 season.



Chelsea are able to commit that money because they still have £90m sitting there from the Hazard sale that they could not spend last year due to their transfer ban.



The current squad are currently 25 points clear at the top of the league. There is nothing NAIVE about thinking they are really, really good.

As for running them into the ground, they have just had three months off work. I wouldn’t worry about it. That’s more rest than they’ve had for years.



Right, so why are you kicking off about Werner?

The club will of course be interested if a deal can be done. I personally thought Werner was a done thing, but I understand fully why the club don’t want to at this time. In fact, I am glad that the owners are being sensible. It’s far better than committing 100m to Werner and football getting scrapped again next year. We’re already looking at a season with no matchday income



Clearly they weren’t ready to do that, or he’d be a red now.



No, I’m not saying that. If the club find a deal that can be done, I’m OK with that.

I’m also OK with the club going into next season with the same squad as last season if necessary.



A team that has dropped five points in 29 games is not close to being ‘figured out’, whatever that means. It doesn’t matter what teams have figured out, they still have to find a way to deal with it. As I keep saying, we’re really, really good

I’m all for bringing in players to freshen up the squad. Like Minamino for example, who everyone seems to have forgotten about.



They do that already. There would be nothing new in teams sitting back and trying to hit us on the counter



I’m glad you brought up Klopp, because whenever fans have this meltdown when we don’t sign a player, I wonder who they think has been managing us for the last three years.

Klopp wants to coach players, bring through youth and improve what he has. He will go to the market when he has to.

But it’s as if, for some fan, football is about who signs the most players, and then some footy happens in between windows. I’ve seen Chelsea fans crowing about Werner (and it’s not done yet) like it doesn’t matter that we’re so far ahead of them I can’t even be bothered to look them up.

The priority for this summer (?) has to be to keep the squad together, and there are suggestions from some close to the club that the club are focussing on long term deals for the likes of Van Dijk and Alisson.

I’d like to see some back up to Robbo, and an upgrade on Origi. Normally I’d be suggesting we fund that by selling Wilson, Origi, Shaqiri, Grujic etc. But there is no guarantee that this market will be there. I can’t see anyone dropping 20m on Origi right now. Everything has changed. We can’t act like it hasn’t.
I am not kicking off about werner. Personally I'm more a proponent of us signing kai Havertz over werner. But the club wanted werner and changed their mind due to financial reasons.

I'm not a accountant or a financial analyst so I concede to you I don't know what the future holds, it could be like you said which is why spending wisely is crucial, i do agree with you.


But what will you say once the other teams in the league around us start spending and recruiting players? It's true that right now we are still in the midst of finishing this season so teams won't spend. But in a few months once the season is over the window is most likely to open and then we will see what the other teams are doing, cause while teams around us spend we will be the ones saying we are financially in a good place. I guarantee u recession or not these teams will do whatever it takes to get ahead of us, even if it means cutting their arm off. We don't have to such drastic things but we should take steps to make sure that on the pitch performance shows dominance.

Our squad is a good team but at times we have shown we don't dominate games like we should. City even with their injury riddled team has scored more goals than us this season. Granted we are 25 points ahead right now, but that's not something that will happen next season. Is it wrong for me to say perhaps our mindset shouldn't be to settle? If it's honestly something the club need to do then fine, I think we are more than ready and able to accept it because it's klopp and this backroom staff. But if we sell players, don't you think we should try and make up for that squad depth we are losing? I think u do but its the covid thing that's going to be our crutch. There is always a thing after all, ffp, potential new stadium, new stand, new training ground, etc etc. There will always be some reason not to spend. And again we don't need to spend big, but we should spend smart and not abstain from bringing players in.

I am actually on your sides about most of the points you bring up, but I have seen us make these mistakes with youth players only to be vastly have it kick our ass in the long haul. If we were a mid table team and u want to reload and give players like this first team football then I get it. But champions don't do that. Like I said we don't have to spend big, but what it shouldn't be is, today it's Harry Wilson, tommorow it will be layton Stewart and jake cain, then tommorow it will be some hopeful from the academy. It will end up being the excuse for why the team will not go out and do some form of recruitment.

To be honest I have expectations of the following players to step up once the football restart which include:

1. Minamino
2.keita
3. Ox
4.curtis Jones
5. Origi

For me these players need to show up and show their value to prove this squad has the strength the majority of us boasts it does.
 

Sweeting

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So won't pay £50m for werner but surely this lad would cost roughly the same. Not happening.

Dont think he's that great to be honest.
Can't see that happening at all, Wolves are one of the richest clubs in the world they're under no pressure at all to sell and would demand a fortune for a guy with 6 months competent football under his belt.
 

Kopstar

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Imagine how many more clubs would have been totally fucked if it wasn't for FFP. As it stands, nobody knows how deflated the market will be but there will only be very few clubs who will feel able to have a meaningful net spend on transfers and those will be the ones like Chelsea and Liverpool who have not spent much in the last few years, are well run and are likely to be in the CL. Bayern Munich will be one of the few teams abroad able to do the same.

However, having the ability to spend doesn't mean you have to spend. I can certainly see the club being cautious. After all, we're not the ones needing to meet the new standard. We are the standard.
 

Sweeting

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Imagine how many more clubs would have been totally fucked if it wasn't for FFP. As it stands, nobody knows how deflated the market will be but there will only be very few clubs who will feel able to have a meaningful net spend on transfers and those will be the ones like Chelsea and Liverpool who have not spent much in the last few years, are well run and are likely to be in the CL. Bayern Munich will be one of the few teams abroad able to do the same.

However, having the ability to spend doesn't mean you have to spend. I can certainly see the club being cautious. After all, we're not the ones needing to meet the new standard. We are the standard.
That's true, some people have tried to use losing to Athletico as an example of needing to improve but I think that's misleading - we were the better team in both games. Anyone can lose in Madrid and we were coasting at home until Adrian decided to give the game away (and even then it required a DM who hadn't scored in years to bend in two long range efforts completely out of character). Fluke result on a strange night.
 

cynicaloldgit

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... we were coasting at home until Adrian decided to give the game away
For the nth time: we did not lose that game because of Adrián. If our outfield players had not spurned so many presentable chances during the ninety minutes, the tie would not have gone to extra time in the first place.

Agree that it was a strange night, though.
 

Sweeting

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For the nth time: we did not lose that game because of Adrián. If our outfield players had not spurned so many presentable chances during the ninety minutes, the tie would not have gone to extra time in the first place.

Agree that it was a strange night, though.
OK, fair enough, there are obviously multiple reasons that a game is won or lost.

But Adrian holds a high level of responsibility for losing that game as well.